Gardener's Group discussion
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I originally wanted to take a class in permaculture, but there are so many great books on the subject that I decided it wasn't necessary! I've been posting the most useful parts of the books I read over the last year on the permaculture section of my blog and will keep doing that.In addition to the forest gardening book I recommended earlier, I'd recommend you check out Teaming with Microbes A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web and Mycelium Running How Mushrooms Can Help Save the World --- they're not straight permaculture, but they will help you look at the garden with a permaculture mindset. There are lots of intro books to permaculture out there (like Gaia's Garden A Guide to Home-Scale Permaculture or Introduction to Permaculture), but those bore me pretty quicky --- I want hands on info!
To answer your question about scale --- my understanding is that you can do permaculture on any scale. It's more about a mindset than about a particular set of gardening tasks.
I live on a farm, so my list of the things I did when I started with permaculture probably won't help you much, but here goes! First, we built chicken tractors as a way of incorporating our hens into the ecosystem --- this way we get lawn mowing and fertilizing services out of our chickens in addition to eggs.
Next, we added a worm bin to use up the few food scraps we can't give to the chickens. One of the major tenets of permaculture is that there's no such thing as waste. Instead, every "waste" is really an opportunity, especially if you're a gardener!
After that, I started figuring out href="http://waldeneffect.org/blog/Adding_m... accumulators --- plants to concentrate nutrients from the soil and can be used to make compost or mulch to feed the plants you really like. The best known is comfrey, and I've started putting comfrey in lots of corners where I don't want to have to mow or plant, then cutting it back several times a year to feed my garden.
Currently, we're working on mushrooms, hoping to figure out a way to get them to use up our junk mail. We live an hour or so away from the closest recycling bin, so I want to work that "waste" back into our system as well.
I hope that's not more than you were looking for! :-)
You're welcome Gina!This is such an interesting chat! I'm loving it!
That's awesome! Definitely not more than I was looking for; I enjoyed reading it. I have looked into ground covers that act as a mulch/compost- I know there are some that the gardener is supposed to turn under before planting (for compost purposes) but I can't figure out when to grow it and when to turn it into the soil since the only down-time our gardens have here is in winter when nothing really grows. Maybe I am thinking about this wrong or just need to go with something that doesn't need to be turned under. I won a Tumbler compost bin last spring and have been using that, but with our very dry desert air, it is taking a VERY long time for the materials to break down. I might try throwing it in the soil next season and just mixing it in, clumps and all...I think that is awesome about the chickens! I am really looking forward to having some land some day to get into all these different aspects. It sounds like you've got a lot of great things going on with your place; I'm excited to hear about the mushrooms! (What type are you trying to get going?).
I'm ashamed to say that I never got into cover crops either. I use a href="http://www.waldeneffect.org/blog/Disa... method of raised beds in my garden, and cover crops seem to depend on being tilled in. Cover crops also seem to need a longer growing season before the winter than I give them --- I like to garden up until the bitter end! If I had space to let part of the garden be fallow each year, cover crops would look more feasible.I've had some success with putting undecomposed plant matter directly on the beds, but will warn you that the undecomposed plant matter locks up nitrogen for a month or two. I've had much better luck with putting that plant matter on the beds just before the winter and then planting into in it in the spring. Even better is to mulch with grass-clippings (or comfrey!), both of which break down very
quickly to feed the soil.
We've started two kinds of mushrooms, both from store-bought spawn --- shiitakes (harder to grow but really good for you!) and oyster mushrooms. Right now, I'm experimenting with propagating my oyster mushrooms myself so that I can expand the population without having to buy the pricey spawn. I'm having moderate success, but it's going to take a while to pin down the best way to do it without a lab! :-)
Really great info everyone!!!
This is all so interesting and informative. Since I grew up on a farm some of these principles are familiar to me, but I've never thought of applying them to my urban setting. My neighbors would definatly frown on chickens, but there are many other things I could do. I ordered "Gaia's Garden" from Amazon and can't wait for it to get here.
It's more obsession than dedication. :-) It's also hard to know when to stop when you have a lot of land...
Glad to see you Kelly Jo!!!
You're welcome! I know how it is!
Hi - My name's Bobbi and I'd so glad I found you. I definitely qualify as an obsessed gardener and am excited to be a part of your group. I live in the mountains north of Asheville, NC. The picture is of my dog Bear, who is part border collie and a real character. One of his favorite things to do (besides digging - he's a gardener, too) is to stick his head through the pickets on the deck and look at what's going on.
Welcome Bobbi! Glad to have you! Very cute pup!!! Looking forward to getting to know you better here - feel free to jump right in on any of the threads!
They really do the craziest things. We never stop laughing at him. We also have a yellow lab who is 11 and the sweetest dog ever. He is a saint to put up with Bear, however, who tries to herd him around the yard. We took them to the beach last Thanksgiving and Bear just kept herding him in circles. What a sight!I'm dying to start my seeds inside this year. I tried it once but didn't have enough light, so got grow lights this year. Right now it's snowing, looks almost like a blizzard (I live north of Asheville, NC) but not as bad as the rest of the east coast I guess. My daffodils are coming up, however.
If anything's coming up here (which is doubtful!), it hasn't been able to poke through the snow and ice yet! What an absolute mess today, more ice than snow.
Welcome Bobbi! Nice to have another new voice to add to the group.
Agreed!
Welcome Kathryn!
Hi & Hello! I'm at work on a break and decided to try a sort of intervention on myself; so i googled "Obsessed Container Gardener." I've got five tabs open with things I need to read, Goodreads is one of them. I realized I'd heard of this site before in a fandom sort of space and have joined - perhaps updating a bookshelf will interrupt my gardening fugue. ;)I've recently moved and so "restarted" container gardening, this means a crazy amount of photographs of the process and baby plant pics from sprout to seedling.. So hello everyone, My name is Kymba and I have a *problem*. =)
Hi Kymba and welcome to the group!
Hello & Welcome Kymba & fellow container gardener! Glad you found us! You've found a great place to support your habit, lol!
Hi, I'm Danielle. I am obsessed with gardening. I was stationed on the road for a year, and my poor garden suffered. I'm back home, and I'm going to whip it into shape. I did some pruning yesterday, and things already look better. The plan is to do some planting over the next few weeks. I'm glad I found this group. Us gardeners do need a support group!
Hey Danielle! Welcome! Glad to see you over here! Being with like-minded folks is always a good thing, especially when it comes to gardening, lol!
Welcome Danielle. Will be fun to hear about your planting adventures.
Thanks for the welcome.
Time to catch up with the Welcome Wagon!Welcome to new members JC, Geri, Christina, Kristy, Sliknl and Mandy!
Make yourselves at home and feel free to join in on any of the threads, current or in the Archives folder!
Not sure if I've ever said hello here though I have been a member for awhile now... so HELLO! my name is Adrienne and I just bought a new house and will need lots of sage advice about what and what not to plant, what books are the greatest and all that jazz. I look forward to getting to know you all real soon. Moving day is nine days and counting!
Hello my dear friend and kindred Spirit Adrienne! Welcome! I'm so happy for you and the move to a home of your own! I'm also happy at the thought of seeing you more here! :-)
Adrienne--welcome and congrats on your new home.
Thanks so much Cheryl! It is starting to be real. On Thursday it's ours. Why is it that when something you've wanted for so long comes true, it is a little unbelievable? I think I might get a celebratory bottle of wine to help it along. hehe
Of course a celebration is in order! What a wonderful new chapter in your life!
I felt the same way about retiring, I couldn't quite imagine what it would be like. A whole month has gone by and I've been on the run the whole time. Can't remember how I used to find time to work!
lol!
Hi, I am new to the group, and have been an obsessed gardener since I started college. My dorm room was a jungle of houseplants. I took the Master Gardener classes a few years ago, and found that all my reading had taught me most of what was covered in the class! I did take a landscape design class, taught by landscape architects from Iowa State U. that was excellent. I learned a lot from it. My home garden is not designed much at all, though. I stick things here, trying to get the right amount of sun, and if they don't do well, or don't look right later, I try somewhere else. I do try to remember the three year rule and give them enough time. The first year after being transplanted, plants sleep, the second they creep, and the third year they leap.
Welcome Miriam! So glad to have you here! Looking forward to getting to know you better, feel free to make yourself at home in the threads!
Welcome Mariam--Sounds like you have a great background in gardening and will have a lot to offer to this group. I'm self taught and bumble around trying to figure out what should go where and make lots of mistakes, but to me that's part of the fun.
My oldest daughter is currently changing career paths and going back to school for landscape design and I am so jealous. She was here this morning showing me some of her books and I'm very excited for her. As her mom I will expect lots of ideas and advice from her in the future.
Cheryl,I was self taught until these last few years. Was semi-retired (caring for a mentally retarded cousin in my home) so took classes to keep my brain active and contact with "normal" folks. He passed away a year ago this April, so am now back looking for a good job.
Where is your daughter studying? I loved the classes, and wondered about continuing. I would have difficulty doing the more modern designs though.
My flower garden grows so many weeds-what can I do to prevent this? I am tired of pulling weeds every couple of weeks.
Mulch!!!! Several inches thick, but keep it away from the base of the plants. Edging to keep quack grass roots out. Some perennial weeds, like bindroot, you have to either just keep pulling, since you never can get all the root, or use a broadleaf herbicide on that plant only (use a piece of cardboard or folded newspaper to protect the other plants.
Miriam has some great advice there Linda! You could put down a layer of weed guard fabric first before mulching.
I did put down weed guard when I first planted schrubs 15 years ago and never any weeds. Well, I grew tired of them and had them taken out and I planted flowers-now there are so many weeds that seem to pop up every couple of weeks. We have a bichon, named Lilly and I am afraid if I put weed killer down she may get it on her or the birds may be harmed by it. I think it is in the mulch before I put it down. Next year I think I am going to use a better brand of mulch. So tired of spenting hours pulling weeds! Linda
Thanks MiramI get many many sticker plants-they seem to grow several inches and spread over night. I do mulch every spring. You have some great ideas-I am going to use the cardboard to protect my flowers. Thanks
Miriam--my daughter is attending Hennepin Technical College located in a suburb of Minneapolis. She chose this school because of their extensive greenhouses and test gardens on school property which allows for lots of hands on learning. She also liked their placement rates and high level of support for the adult learner students and the fact they do many field trips and community events as part of their training. She's a bit nervous about the biology and chemistry aspects, I'd be more concerned about learning the Latin names of everything!
Linda, you have 15 years worth of weed seeds sprouting! The shrubs kept it too shady to sprout. I don't have much luck with weed fabric underneath mulch. The mulch deteriorates, along with stray leaves, and the weeds sprout on top of it. Then you have a real mess, since you can't hoe. But, it is very rainy here in Iowa during the summer. Other places it may work better. There is also a product, called Preen, which you can apply to prevent seeds, including weed seeds, from sprouting. I have never used it, but I hear that it is helpful. I enjoy the volunteer plants that sprout, so am willing to put up with weeds. I am growing a collection of volunteer trees- tulip, hackberry, redbud, sycamore, oak, crabapple, and black maple. I also have volunteer cotoneasters and butterfly bushes.The sticker plants are probably profuse due to rabbits nesting under your shrubs. I find that where the rabbits nest, I get more weeds of the sticky type.
Cheryl, that sounds like a great school. I may recommend it to my niece if she decides to go into landscape architecture. Right now she is vacillating between that and regular architecture.
Cherly~Thanks for your great advice-PREEN it is. I just do not feel like going out there and spending a day pulling weeds just to havae them back in a couple of weeks.
Hi all!!Just joined! I have a mainly vegetable garden on my Kuwait balcony and window sills. When I was in Buraimi, Oman I took a villa, just because of the garden space and since I am back in Q8, the bug is just too strong to ignore. The heat is a blessing and curse. Mostly a blessing of course. No danger of frosts. The only down side to that is red/black/white currants just will not work. Tomatoes, Basil, lemon grass and my Tamarind seeds love it!
It is also my testing ground for my proposed garden in Mersa Matruh, Egypt.
Happy gardening everyone!
Hi Harvey! Now what takes you to all those "exotic" locales? All of us here are going to want to know!Can you do tropicals or is it too dry?
Hi! I am a creative director/editor and lived in the middle-east for over twenty years so have become a bit of an Arabist and a student of Islamic Art. My wife is Egyptian. I'm experimenting as much as possible; coming into a 'cooler' period most things are germinating quite well. My balcony is partially shaded and prevents my seedlings getting burnt!Chili peppers and lemon grass is doing well as are my tamarind seeds, so tropicals are indeed a possibility (with lots of water!)
Harvey, isn't Islamic art mostly geometric? Since they are not permitted to recreate life forms? Or is there an escape clause in the Qaran that I am not familiar with...
Welcome Harvey! Glad to see you're making yourself at home here.
Miriam wrote: "Harvey, isn't Islamic art mostly geometric? Since they are not permitted to recreate life forms? Or is there an escape clause in the Qaran that I am not familiar with..."The only real no no is representing Prophet Mohammed (Peace Be Upon Him). If you look at Persian or Mughal art (in particular) figurative art is much to the fore. The Wahabis of Saudi Arabia have not done a good PR job in spreading enlightenment. Let us look at European History and we can find iconoclastic offshoots who have smashed stained glass windows and find evil in representational art (or even art and colour in general).
Calligraphy and geometry do hold great importance in 'Islamic' art in general. It must be stressed that there is of course some difference between purely religious art and secular art. 'Islamic' is in some ways a misnomer, though if one said 'Arab' art it would leave out Persia and Mughal India......
Gardens of course were and are something of a high art form!!!! The Char-bagh (four-gardens grid) of Persia spawned a form that survives to this day in Granada and Andalus!
Omar Khayyam wanted nothing else but to drink wine in his garden and write poetry!
Gardener's Group
Books mentioned in this topic
Mycelium Running: How Mushrooms Can Help Save the World (other topics)Introduction to Permaculture (other topics)
Gaia's Garden: A Guide to Home-Scale Permaculture (other topics)
Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web (other topics)
Edible Forest Gardens (other topics)
More...
Anna- I was interested in studying permaculture at Crystal Waters Eco-village in Australia about seven years ago when I first learned about permaculture. They were awarded the United Nations World Habitat Award and do all sorts of educational programs like permaculture internships that can last up to a few months at a time. I tried for a few years to get over to AUS to participate but in the end it was too expensive for me. However, I'm still interested in learning more about the principles and making it part of my (probably future) lifestyle. I know there are some programs here in the States, as well, but on a college budget- well... =)
How did you learn about it? Where have you found the best information? Is it possible to do on a VERY small scale? Right now I am an urban gardener with very little room to grow (I maxed out my apt. building's land already- ha ha!). What are some of the things you did when you started integrating permaculture into your garden/home?
Lots of questions- sorry- but I haven't met anyone else at all who knew about permaculture. Most people just give me a blank look. =)