Fat and Thin

[Thomas]

"Fat and Thin," the short short for this week, is a comic look at two childhood friends who meet up by chance in a train station. They have not seen each other since they were in school together and they catch up a bit. The thin man is very proud of himself, and his wife, and his son... until he learns about the fat man's success and the rank he has achieved.

Is self worth a relative concept? Is this what makes the story comical? Or is it the reaction of the thin man and his family (and his baggage, apparently)?

The notes to the story are informative since the tone is evidently difficult to translate.

"Fat and Thin" is story #10 on the Eldritch Press site: http://www.eldritchpress.org/ac/jr/01...

[Roger]

Like "Chameleon," this seems to be a satire on class- and rank-conscious Russian middle-class society.

[Sue]

Yes, this feature of relativity as applied to human nature ....once one gleans other lives as superior, it is more difficult to continue to take solace in one's own which was theretofore acceptable. Globally transmitted information/ entertainment can sow discontent by virtue of comparison and as in this story, the negatives can became exaggerated such as his wife's chin seeming longer! Such an interesting little snapshot of human reactivity.

[Sue]

Indeed..I did see that study....recall it as testing animal's sense of "fairness" (and yes, totally an excellent "Wall Street experiment") ...and yes, I did not mean to limit relativity as to humans! ha! Relatively applies in so many areas but meant that this was a study of human emotions/perception/ego. Looking at an ape's (or monkey's) eyes , one does see how we are not all that different....and similarly, I worry about feeding my dogs "unfairly"( per their potential perceptions)! (the dogs have different needs , but do they understand this?)

[Sue]

Yes, there is that pain that can radiate sometimes from hearing of good news about others ...pain not because of their good fortune, but of the lack of one's own in comparison. On the other hand, there is schadenfreude: the pleasure derived from misfortune of others. Oh, we do have trouble with this relativity factor as to perceived fortune or what not.

[Bigollo]

Sue wrote: "Yes, there is that pain that can radiate sometimes from hearing of good news about others ...pain not because of their good fortune, but of the lack of one's own in comparison. On the other hand, there is schadenfreude: the pleasure derived from misfortune of others. Oh, we do have trouble with this relativity factor as to perceived fortune or what not. "

which reminds me of one bearded joke:
Q: define success
A: the non-success of my neighbor
:)

[Genni]

The thin man does seem to have baggage. The thin man makes cigarette cases and the fat man was evidently a smoker in their childhood. I wonder if this is telling of the significance the fat man has always had on the thin man?

I also wondered, it says that when the thin man received the news of his friend's success that his face contorted in a bunch of different ways and that sparks were flashing from his eyes. I took all of this to mean that he was upset. But at the end it says that he was "agreeably overwhelmed"?? Or perhaps by the end of their conversation he was hoping for benefits from friends in high places?

[Genni]

Porfiry was fond of telling tells in childhood. It seems not much has changed? He begins by saying that his wife is of the "Lutheran persuasion" (hyperbole?) and ends by saying that she is "Lutheran, in a certain sense". lol

[Genni]

Patrice wrote: "unfortunately, yes, i think if not self worth, contentment is dependent on howthose around you are doing."

This is so sad, but in most cases true. And I can't remember where Thomas (?) said this, but it seems to serve the point that humor and pathos are truly bound in Chekhov's stories because while I saw the humor in this, the thin man's reaction made me feel pity towards him.

[Bigollo]

Genni wrote: "Porfiry was fond of telling tells in childhood. It seems not much has changed? He begins by saying that his wife is of the "Lutheran persuasion" (hyperbole?) and ends by saying that she is "Luthera..."

'fond of telling tales'... Hmm.. a bit ambiguous, isn't it?

From the original text it's actually clear that he was fond of informing on [his schoolmates].

[Genni]

Thanks, Bigollo! That does put a different spin on it.

[Dave]

Bigollo wrote: 'fond of telling tales'... Hmm.. a bit ambiguous, isn't it? From the original text it's actually clear that he was fond of informing on [his schoolmates]. ..."

I'm not sure if it's the same in US English, but in UK English the expression "telling tales" does have a very similar meaning to the one you describe in the original text, i.e. to gossip or to inform on others. The translator, Constance Garnett, was British so it makes sense that this expression is used in the text. People still use the expression today -- in fact, when sorting out squabbles between my own kids ("Daddy, Archie keeps kicking me under the table", "Daddy, Rosie said I'm a poo poo", etc, etc), I find myself sometimes instinctively saying, "Stop telling tales."

[Genni]

Hmmm...there may be regional differences in the US, but I grew up with a definition of telling tales as hyperbole or lying, and informing on others would be called "tattling" or tattle-telling".

[Roger]

By my marrying a Lutheran, Porfiry made himself a bit of an outsider in vigorously Orthodox Russia, didn't he? And he makes no effort to hide it--in fact he makes a point of it. Perhaps it's no wonder that he hasn't progressed far in life.

[Bigollo]

Dave and Genni, thank you for your comments above!
For me, studying English as my second language, such details of the language are very valuable very interesting.

[Sue]

Hmm...think I grew up (in the midwest) understanding the expressions at issue: "telling tall tales" for exaggeration or falsehoods; "telling on" (or tattling) as informing on others. "Telling tales" is a bit gray...but leans to the "tall tales" definition in my mind. But who knows! Colloquialisms are a bit difficult to pin down.

[Bigollo]

Thank you all!

Now I know that if I need to translate this simple Russian verb, I have to get my bearings as to which part of the English speaking world I happen to be at :)

[Bigollo]

Roger wrote: "By my marrying a Lutheran, Porfiry made himself a bit of an outsider in vigorously Orthodox Russia, didn't he? And he makes no effort to hide it--in fact he makes a point of it. Perhaps its no wonder that he hasn't progressed far in life."

I’m sure there was some socio-historical significance in Chekhov’s making Porfiry’s wife a Lutheran. Probably only Chekhov’s contemporaries could fully appreciate the point.
I have to say that marrying a German in Russia hasn’t been rare for more than last two centuries. Simply because there have been many German immigrants to Russia, coming in waves, especially during Catherine the Great reign in 18th century, and most of them were Lutherans.

[Bigollo]

Patrice wrote: "bigollo, did you notice the note which said that marrying a Lutheran meant he marri ed well? That after the Dec embrist revolution the Russians depended on the Germans? For exactly what I cant imag..."

Patrice, I did notice that, but I have no clue either. History was never my strong suit. I haven't heard a word connecting Germans with Decebrist Revolution. But i was educated in the communist USSR. Many parts of history were omitted (I guess!). It's possible to explore now, but we have only this much time.. I don't think it's that crucial for comprehending Fat and Thin story.

[Dee]

Miles and Pitcher translate "telling tales" as "I was always sneaking on people" which makes the epithet of Ephialtes seem more appropriate. Note how Thin has now no desire to forget this. In fact he seems quite proud of his childhood escapades. Has he changed at all?

[Bigollo]

David wrote: "Miles and Pitcher translate "telling tales" as "I was always sneaking on people" which makes the epithet of Ephialtes seem more appropriate."

That's pretty accurate.

David wrote: "In fact he seems quite proud of his childhood escapades. Has he changed at all?"

Another hint from Chekhov, as if we may change our masks but not our core. Say, to succeed in life one has to be born with audacity to not be afraid of burning a hole in a schoolbook when only at a schoolboy age.

[Geoff]

My initial impression was that the thin man was (also) intimidated and frightened that the fat man might use his advanced station and social power to exact revenge on him. It seemed like Chekhov suggested that the thin man himself teased the fat man when they were young, and was continuing to brag and condescend to him until the revelation of his elevated station. Perhaps his son hiding behind him is instructive here.

But looking here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_o..., I see that the thin man claims rank 8, and guesses his old friend to be rank 5 (when he is in fact rank 3). So perhaps the right reading is that he always was trying to show off and win approval of someone he sensed as in some way his superior?

The fat man's sickened reaction also suggests to me that he was hoping to have a rare interaction with someone on a personal level, having met an old schoolmate, who knew him as something more than the imposing figure of power he had become. Unlike the thin man, he was not threatened by the other's station.