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December group read - The Sparrow
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Jo
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rated it 4 stars
Dec 01, 2016 08:44AM
This is to discuss December's group read The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell.
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I hope people are planning to read this month's book as it is a good read and different from a lot of the books that we have read. I'm planning to read it again and I have already found it on my bookshelf so I have no excuses.
I have my copy from the library. It has been on my to- read list for a while.
I already started reading The Sparrow and enjoy it. I hope to find enough time this month to also read #2 Children of God.
I remember flipping through this book once but not reading it. I just reserved it at my public library.
I just got my copy from thriftbooks and am looking forward to starting it in the next few days.
I'm glad people are planning to read this book. I intend to start tomorrow on my daily commute.
I started it last night. I find the writing to be quite good, 'literary'. She is teasing us with the story, holding back on salient facts; doing a good job of developing the characters and giving us the story little by little.
I'm about 10% in on this at the moment, and was struck by something of a coincidence. My son was watching various YouTubers playing a Google game called QuickDraw (I think), the objective of which is to draw a specific item for the Google AI to guess within so many seconds - they were having a lot of fun with this, needless to say. However, I couldn't help thinking of the underlying - behind the scenes - objective of these Google 'games', which seem to me to be aimed at teaching Google's AI - in this case, in relation to pictorial recognition.Why mention this? Sofia Mendes, or rather, Mendes' occupation, which is to gather information about other occupations in order to build AIs with which to replace them. Scary, or what?
Posting again because the coincidences just keep on coming! It's my habit to read Guardian news most days and I've just finished reading this article: https://www.theguardian.com/technolog...Did I say scary? Well, it just got even scarier ...
Funny, just tried that question in Google - in dutch. 10 out of 10 no problem. I personally would be scared if the cat started talking to me. Still didn't happen.
The telling in The Sparrow is going back and forward in time. That method is used in quite some books we read here and I don't allways like it. But in The Sparrow I find it very well used tot tell the story.
Donna Rae wrote: "Posting again because the coincidences just keep on coming! It's my habit to read Guardian news most days and I've just finished reading this article: https://www.theguardian.com/technolog......"Asking a judgement question from a search engine is the basic error. It's not what they're designed to do, as the disclaimer quoted in the article makes clear. Use of a tool implies a responsibility to understand the tool. Whether it is a chainsaw or a computer program, using it incorrectly will lead to bad results. Anger tends to be voiced more than approval, so the results are not at all surprising. People like things simple, but it's not a simple world. It never was & is decidedly less so today. I highly recommend reading A Field Guide to Lies: Critical Thinking in the Information Age.
I just finished reading Sparrow and have ordered Children of God. This book was a great read and wonderful characterization. I found the characters fascinating in their approaches to life. I have struggled most of my life with approaching God. It is interesting to watch Carlos in his progress approaching God. I find it difficult to find the peace in my heart that I wish to attain on this subject. But is always worth the effort, at least for me, so far.
I have read to the end of chapter 9 and have gotten used to the time shifts. It is an intriguing book and I have to finish it before it is due at the library on the 14th, since there are a lot of holds on it. I can see how the suspense will be building as I continue reading. I found the concept of intellectual slavery frightening.
I have mixed feelings about The Sparrow. Despite that I gave it 4 stars, and I already started reading the following novel Children of God, which I saw advised to read directly after The Sparrow. I think the book has a high quality, I am really impressed that this is a writer's first novel. The problems I had with it are bound to my own preferences. At first the big role religion has in the story. I'm interested in SF but not a bit in religion. Obvious that's a problem reading The Sparrow. Second is the fact that the author takes a lot of time for describing the characters, relations and interaction between the characters in the book. Characterbuilding of course is very usefull, but in my opinion it's overdone here. Especially when the characters also have a relationship with god which also needs to be described. I see though that for a lot of readers this fact is adding to the quality of the book.
The gruesome and humiliating things that happen at the end of the book seemed to me to have the function to show us that even in the worst circumstances there must be a way not to lose trust in god. I would be disappointed if this religious theme became more obvious in Children of God. If not, I'm looking forward to reading the second part of a great story.
It's taking me awhile to read this so I can't see me being able to read the second book this month but i'd be interested to know how it compares.I'm around half way now, just at the point where they are about to make contact. I've really been enjoying it up to now. The only lull has been when they landed on the surface which lost my attention. I assume with contact my interest will resume. I like the blend of characters and the fact they are not all of a religious nature. It makes it more interesting in how the characters approach the unknown.
Agreed, it's a lot of pages. In CoG the story goes on, but also there are things being explained that happened in The Sparrow. Seems to me to be one story, just cut in two because of the length of it.
I am at the part where they have just started the flight. The author has taken a long time to introduce the characters, set the stage and show the result. She certainly has me curious as to what is going to happen.
I'm a little shy of halfway through. They've landed on the planet. In the beginning of the book we are introduced, in depth, to five characters. Then one more, not quite as in-depth, then at the last minute, two more. When they are embarking on their journey, it seems like the pace picks up. It's almost rushed, compared to the earlier part of the book. (view spoiler) I guess we'll find out as we read on. It is a long book.
In the first part of the book, we've been teased with allegations of unknown atrocities. I keep wondering if this is really necessary? On the other hand, I feel that it is very well written.
Leo wrote: "Agreed, it's a lot of pages. In CoG the story goes on, but also there are things being explained that happened in The Sparrow. Seems to me to be one story, just cut in two because of the length of it."I hope we aren't compelled to read the second novel to finish the story in the first. Connie Willis' double novel Blackout/All Clear annoyed me no-end in that it was really one too-long novel cut into two pieces and given different names. I hope The Sparrow isn't like that, the first half of a very long novel.
Buck wrote: "I hope we aren't compelled to read the second novel to finish the story in the first. "Well, The Sparrow does have sort of an end. So you can stop reading after finishing it. But about half of what I read until now in Children of God (20% in) is extra information about the things that happenend on Rakhat. It really adds to what is told in The Sparrow. For the other half it is the story continuing after Sandoz returned to earth. If you liked The Sparrow I advise to read Children of God after it.
Buck wrote: "I hope we aren't compelled to read the second novel to finish the story in the first. Connie Willis' double novel Blackout/All Clear annoyed me no-end in that it was really one too-long novel cut into two pieces and given different names. I hope The Sparrow isn't like that, the first half of a very long novel. "Totally agree with that, Buck; I'm about 80% through and enjoying the novel quite a lot, but I'm undecided yet whether to launch into Children of God straight after. Wait and see how it goes at the end, I guess. Of course, the reverse situation can be infuriating, too: read Neal Stephenson's Seveneves earlier this year - one heck of a long book that really ought to have been two, in my opinion.
Sipaj, Sparrow readers, someone thinks now Children of God also is a great book you won't regret.
Okay, I'm going to say it: I find Anne annoyingly smug :/
I know what you mean about Anne! It's such a well written book. Although during the reading of the book you know something bad is going to happen, the ending is particularly hard hitting. It's a strange ending in some ways and I have to agree with Leo that's it's written to demonstrate the issue of faith in God. I was surprised how quickly the plot resolved at the end. It was almost out of keeping with the rest of the book. A 4-4.5 stars from me and i'm going to read Children of God now.
I have 70 pages to go and I can tell it is building up to something dramatic- and bad.
I finished the book. I am glad that I read the book and would like to know what happens to Emilio, but I am not going to read the sequel. The writing is very intense, so I found the book heavy-going. I can't say that I enjoyed the book, but I am certainly glad that I read it. This is a thought- provoking book, definitely. I also thought that the first part of the novel could have been shorter, since some of the scenes before the mission was even discussed tended to drag. (There were too many scenes with Anne and George).
This book is taking a long time for me to read. It is dense prose and i have been severally interrupted. I am about 2/3 of the way through and I can't yet see where it is going. My initial impression was that the writing is extremely good, but I am finding it sometimes uneven, and I've had the urge occasionally to skim, especially when it gets bogged down in the nature of God, which fortunately is not too much. So I am leaning towards not jumping into the Children of God, but, we'll see.(view spoiler)
A plot hole.
I notices that too, especially since the author goes on and on about how brilliant Mendes is.
Well, that was a bit more disturbing than anticipated when I nominated this novel - apologies to anyone who feels reviled by what they've just read.No, I don't mean the horrific details involved in its conclusion because the entire novel lead up to that point right from the beginning. No. What I'm referring to is the whole 'Anne and George' thing, especially that bit in zero g - please, who wanted that image planted there! Ugh!
I wanted to know more about Emilio and the others. I thought that the relationship between Anne and Supari was really strange- not because it was interspecies, but it seemed contrived to me. As I think about this book, I find I am ever more undecided about this book, and generally not in a positive way. I have read books that were more disturbing as regards content, although I have to say that the ending of this one was bad. My issue is her writing style and characterization. The book is uneven in structure and the writing is turgid at times, with too much detail for the first 100 pages.
I've been away for quite a while,mbut thought I'd drop in. I read this when it came out. I thought it was a great book and thoroughly enjoyed the whole thing. But I didn't read Children of God. When I got to the end of this book, I found it to be the most disturbing thing I'd ever read. I think it may have to do with the fact I'm an artist and the build up to the atrocity, as someone else described it here, was incredibly well done. I knew in my bones for most of the book something awful was coming that would be as a result of arrogance. But I had no idea how awful it would be and how it would make me feel and how well described it would be. I had the second book soon after I finished, but I just didn't have the stomach to go on to it. This book took a lot out of me.
David, I agree that the catastrophe came about because of arrogance-and ignorance, which is a horrid combination.
I've been on the road which has slowed my reading - only 3/4 of the way along. I had to renew my library loan. Atrocities have been hinted at from the beginning, but I still don't know what to expect. Rosemarie wrote: "My issue is her writing style and characterization. The book is uneven in structure and the writing is turgid at times, with too much detail for the first 100 pages."
My impression was that the writing in the first 100 pages was, stylistically speaking, excellent; though I concede that if the novel had continued in that style it would have gone on for more than 1000 pages.
Valid comment, Buck. The pace of the novel does speed up in the course of the novel.
It's the same in Children of God. Author takes a very long time to describe events and situations. For almost a month now I'm in kind of a zen-like mood reading this two books. I find it not unpleasant. Although the first horrible things already happended to Sandoz, so I guess it's going to be another dramatic end again, just around christmas for me - perfect timing.
Leo wrote: "It's the same in Children of God. Author takes a very long time to describe events and situations. For almost a month now I'm in kind of a zen-like mood reading this two books. I find ..."I've only just started so I guess more bad things to look forward to. I did wonder if after the early revelation if it was going to be a different type of book, clearly not.
I finished The Sparrow last night.Oh, my God.
The climax of this novel is as powerful as any I can think of. It's disturbing, horrifying, appalling, unsettling - I can't think of the right word.
It's not perfect. The writing sometimes gives the impression of being uneven, but in hindsight I can't really find fault with it. As a non-religious reader, the Jesuit arcanity sometimes left me nonplussed, but in the end, I can't say that it was overdone. With all the hints of atrocities, I knew something awful is coming, but it took me completely off guard.
I expect that I will be reading the sequel.
Buck wrote: "I finished The Sparrow last night.Oh, my God.
The climax of this novel is as powerful as any I can think of. It's disturbing, horrifying, appalling, unsettling - I can't think of the right word...."
I agree it is a powerful novel, this is the second time i've read it and even with knowing the ending in advance the impact is still the same.
I'm reading Children of God at the moment and I second what Leo said about reading it. It does explain various things from the first novel which you probably wondered about. It also continues the story and it's certainly keeping me interested.
Now I am going to rethink whether to read it now or later, the sequel I mean. I really want to know what happens to Emilio. The ending of The Sparrow was so intense that it took me a while to get over it. There are a lot of loose ends that need tying up, but I hope this book is not so powerful in parts, and dragging in others. In other words, more balanced.
Rosemarie wrote: "Now I am going to rethink whether to read it now or later, the sequel I mean. I really want to know what happens to Emilio. The ending of The Sparrow was so intense that it took me a while to get o..."I'm not convinced it is more balanced than The Sparrow. It is tying up a lot of loose ends and explaining a lot of what happened in the first novel. The beginning is quite slow paced though but still very readable.
I've just finished Children of God today and I don't think it is as good as The Sparrow. It started off well and then for half way through went down hill. It was most interesting where explaining parts of the first book and the continued rehabilitation of Emilio once it went to the second part of the book it was much less interesting. Now i'm not so sure if i'd recommend it or not....
After finishing The Sparrow, I didn't feel that there were gaps in my knowledge. There weren't things I was left wondering about. I thought everything that happened on Rakhat was fairly well resolved. My reason for reading The Children of God would be in hopes that it is as good as The Sparrow.
Buck wrote: "After finishing The Sparrow, I didn't feel that there were gaps in my knowledge. There weren't things I was left wondering about. I thought everything that happened on Rakhat was fairly well resolv..."For me if you are hoping for something as good as the Sparrow I think you will be disappointed, so probably best not to read straight afterwards. I hope Leo will comment when he finishes as I would like to know what he made of it.
I liked Children of God just as well as The Sparrow. I can understand what you mean about the second half Jo, but for me this was no problem, I simply liked to keep on reading till the end. If there was a #3, I probably would have started it today. A big difference between the two books is that in The Sparrow there was the on-going sensation of discovering the new planet and its inhabitants. Also there's a very different type of companions for Sandoz this time, and very different things happening. In Children of God we find that things are not what they seemed to be in The Sparrow. That's also why l think the two books are one story.
Leo wrote: "I liked Children of God just as well as The Sparrow. I can understand what you mean about the second half Jo, but for me this was no problem, I simply liked to keep on reading till the end. If ther..."I agree the two books are one story in some ways it works better as two separate books as you come out of the one thinking one thing and you start reading the other and are suddenly enlightened. I'm glad I read the book as it's well written, it's just I think I ran out of patience with the Isaac arc by the end.
I decided to read Children of God as well. I have just started it today.
I am enjoying The Children of God after the first chapter, which was basically the synopsis of the first book.
Hope you like it Rosemarie.
The Evolution of Science Fiction
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Children of God (other topics)Children of God (other topics)
Children of God (other topics)
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A Field Guide to Lies: Critical Thinking in the Information Age (other topics)
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