"The Grace of Kings" First Impressions *No Spoilers*

[Sarah]

Here is the place to have our spoiler free discussion of The Grace of Kings by Ken Liu. How is it so far?

[Kim]

My first impression was how am I going to remember so many characters. I don't like starting a book and it has a multi page character section.

[Cathy]

Same here. I don't find it easy to relate to the characters so far either...

[Chris]

It starts slowly, but it keeps gaining momentum until the climax. I like the contrast between the two main characters. Overall, I enjoyed the book a great deal.

[Hank, Hankenstein's Modster]

It was/is slow for me too but I have gotten attached to the main characters. I have really enjoyed the subtle humor and satire Liu is heaping upon the world he has created.

[Simon]

I really enjoyed it. The start was a little harder to get a sense of direction out of but once it got rolling it was nice. Nice characters as well.

[Silvana]

I'd love to know the current group readers' view on the female characters in this book. I was not impressed at all.

[Jen]

I'm in the middle of chapter 3, and I can tell I'm going to love this story. A lot of great elements here. Really well written. I have a physical copy from the library and the audio, so I can learn the pronunciations by ear. I skipped the list of major characters, though it might come in handy as a reference later on.

[Cathy]

I am 30% into the book (chapter 15) and I am contemplating to DNF it. It's boring. Every now and then there is a paragraph that is fun to read, but then it's like reading a dry history book again for another chapter. Too much telling, too little showing.

Silvana wrote: "I'd love to know the current group readers' view on the female characters in this book. I was not impressed at all."
What female characters? The only female character with any worthwhile pagetime is a minor side character. But then, most characters in this book feel like that to me.

[Stoyan]

On page 122 here. Style bothers me somewhat. Ken Liu uses similes that I find contrived and outright annoying at times. I will be more specific in the *spoilers* discussion. Also, his narrative style is a bit schematic... he tends to tell you who the characters are instead of allowing you to form your own conclusions. I.e. X is a no-good wastrel, Y is a sad ruin of a human being, Z is a calculating monster. I'd rather find out these characteristics through the narrative.

The story in these first 100 pages or so appears ambitious and the building blocks are there to turn it into something interesting. More on that when I have read some more.

[Silvana]

Cathy, I suggest to skim the book rather than DNF...there will be some...stuff... (I don't want to spoil).

At least, the silkpunk tech part was amazing. But yes, the female ones in the first half were nonexistent.

[Cathy]

So I am skimming. Chapter 24, 42% into the book. This is not doing it for me. It's all so schematic. The characters feel like paper cut-outs from a children's book. This is the hero, this is the bad guy, this is the supportive wife... There is no life to these characters.

[Neil]

Picked up the book today from Waterstones. Looks right up my street I can't wait!

[Ellen]

Bought my book off eBay. Hope it comes soon.

[Keith]

The first 1/3 of this book barely kept my interest. I stuck with it and now I am half way and it has grown on me. Early on I could have put this book down easily but now it actually has me wanting to know what happens next.

[Bonnie]

Has anyone read his short story collection, how does this compare?

[Sarah]

Umm... Did we just have a Mr Miyagi moment? Wax on/wax off becomes "Carry the bull up the hill."?

[Chris]

Sarah Anne wrote: "Umm... Did we just have a Mr Miyagi moment? Wax on/wax off becomes "Carry the bull up the hill."?"

For those who have read about the bull already, see

(view spoiler)[ Milo of Croton (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah]

What about the whole "The strength is in you..." and cutting a sword with a blade of grass stuff?

[Stoyan]

Sarah Anne wrote: "What about the whole "The strength is in you..." and cutting a sword with a blade of grass stuff?"

I don't wish to reveal any spoilers... but to me a lot of the narrative is a fairly horrible caricature of some cliches ... I am not sure yet if he does this tongue-in-cheek, or if this book will be a bad disappointment. Don't EVEN get me started on the portrayal of the Gods.

[Silvana]

Stoyan wrote: "Don't EVEN get me started on the portrayal of the Gods. "

For me it is an unnecessary plot addition.

[David]

I just finished Children of Time and I'm about to start this now. To be honest, you guys aren't doing much to excite me. The comments and level of enthusiasm in this thread are more than a couple steps down from the other one.

[Jen]

I finished The Grace of Kings last night and overall really enjoyed it, it was a good solid story. I can see why it was an award-winner.

[Michele]

Bonnie wrote: "Has anyone read his short story collection, how does this compare?"

I LOVED his short story collection (The Paper Menagerie and Other Stories). Many of the stories definitely explore the darker side of life, but they're beautifully written, tightly crafted, and very powerful.

[Stoyan]

OK, I am about 50% in now and I have to admit that the last 100 pages or so have been really good. The story is suddenly really interesting and the writing has gotten a lot better. So what took so long? I am glad I stayed with it now.

[Chris]

Given how important places are in this book, this map may help those who have only the audiobook.

[Keith]

Chris wrote: "Given how important places are in this book, this map may help those who have only the audiobook.

"

Very cool. Thanks!

[Lena]

I'm almost finished and I have to say, this was a rough start. I'm listening to the audio book and downloading the map and character list is a must.

The main characters are a little hard to get to know but at 80% I'm completely sold. The second installment is on sale right now so that is next on the list. I'm looking forward to the final discussion.

[Ellen]

I got my book and it is a little intimidating. It is pretty thick and the print is so small. Will tackle it in a couple of days when I finish current read.

[David]

One happy side-effect of having switched to Kindle reading almost exclusively is I have no way of noticing how long the book is or what its text size would have been.

I'm on Chapter 9 and I'm liking it a lot so far. I'm getting a strong The Water Margin vibe from it, which seems to be deliberate.

I'm liking it even though I'm still in the part that other people are complaining it about, so I'm pretty optimistic about the rest of this book/series.

[Sarah]

Both of my Kindles have a page count, time remaining per chapter, and time remaining per book option in the lower left hand corner. Is that only on the Fire? Sometimes it drives me crazy.

[Jen]

Yea, I have that on my kindle paperwhite too. I like to see how long til I finish the chapter. Once in a while I'll look to see how long til I finish the book. The last kindle update made these estimates much more accurate.

[Melanie, the neutral party]

I just started in on this and I read Lions of of AlRassan about a year ago (group side read). They are quite the epic combo! I'm hoping this is has little more action/ war as it continues.

[David]

Sarah Anne wrote: "Both of my Kindles have a page count, time remaining per chapter, and time remaining per book option in the lower left hand corner. Is that only on the Fire? Sometimes it drives me crazy."

At least on my Kindle Paperwhite and Voyage, touching that part of the screen toggles what it displays. I usually leave it off. The "time remaining per book" number is usually absurdly inaccurate for me. There have been more than a few nights where I decided to keep reading based on what it said, and then found myself still awake at 2:00 AM because of how wrong it was.

[Jen]

My kindle estimated reading time became much more accurate after the last update, and after I did this:

Reset Reading Time

[Ellen]

I read a lot on my Kindle but being thrifty (cheap) I will use the library if available or get a used book if the price is much better than an Ebook. Of course I do fall victim to Amazon 1 click and instant gratification at times.

[Sarah]

Uh oh. I seem to have gotten us off topic.

[Stoyan]

OK. Finished it tonight. Was a bit uneven for me on both story and writing, though provided real food for thought in places especially where relationships / friendships are concerned. I will have more to say in the *spoilers* thread.

[Cathy]

I love that I can adjust the size of the type on my kindle! And that I can toggle off the percentages, page count and reading time.

Back to topic, I just gave up on this book, almost halfway through. Too much telling, too little showing, I found the plot to be very wooden and the characters unlikeable and one-dimensional. Sorry, but I could not work up much excitement about this story.

[Sarah]

Cathy (cathepsut) wrote: "Sorry, but I could not work up much excitement about this story...."

I'm bored stiff. I keep trying but it ain't happenin'.

[Cathy]

I have The Three-Body Problem on my maybe-baby-wishlist, but now I am a little apprehensive that I might not like Liu's translation! :(

[David]

Cathy (cathepsut) wrote: "I have The Three-Body Problem on my maybe-baby-wishlist, but now I am a little apprehensive that I might not like Liu's translation! :("

I read that whole series. If you don't like The Three-Body Problem, I'm pretty sure it'll be because of the original material, not the translation. That trilogy is "ideas" sci-fi, not "story and characters" sci-fi. With a handful of notable exceptions, characters are not Liu Cixin's strength as a writer.

I don't say that to turn you against them - I thought they were all great books. I thought Ken Liu's translation was good.

[Sarah]

I've only read the first but I pretty much agree with everything David said.

[Cathy]

Well, I am definitely a "story and character" girl, so that doesn't sound good! :)

[Chris]

Cathy (cathepsut) wrote: "Well, I am definitely a "story and character" girl, so that doesn't sound good! :)"

Me too. Errrr, well, except for the "girl" part, of course :)

[Ellen]

Finally started it . I can see that keeping things straight is going to be a problem

[Ellen]

25% through. Easy reading, I like his writing style. Not a real page turner but has kept my interest so far.

[Neil]

About 120 pages in. enjoying it more than I thought I would although I wish he'd spend more time building individual characters than throwing so many at us in short stages

[Ellen]

Getting down to last 100 pages and he keeps adding new characters. It is a little difficult to keep them all straight. I too would have liked more individual character development.

[Melanie, the neutral party]

Chris,

Thank-you for the map!