Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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Adrien English series challenge #1: Fatal Shadows
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The schedule for the challenge is:
Week 46 (Nov. 14 - 20): Fatal Shadows
Week 47 (Nov. 21 - 27): A Dangerous Thing
Week 48 (Nov. 28 - Dec. 4): The Hell You Say
Week 49 (Dec. 5 - 11): Death of a Pirate King
Week 50 (Dec. 12 - 18): The Dark Tide
You can read at your own pace and jump in with the conversation any time. As you can see, some of us started early :-P "
Yes. What Sara said. :-)
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Oh yes. Those of us (myself included!) who have trouble pacing our reading in book-per-week speed might want to use post-its or make some notes or such while merrily jumping ahead. :-) I'm pretty sure some of us have time to read the series at least TWICE until Christmas. :-D By the way, this is where those audio books come in handy. I think it's fun to mix listening with reading.
In any case, it will be delightful to discuss the series book-per-week pace with you all. As the first week shows we have TONS of things to say and ponder on! :-D
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That coffee scene was amusing. :-)
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:-D
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b. Jake, at this point, doesn't know how much Adrien likes Tab. However, he must realize it's probably hard to find. I heard this as Jake attacking something/someone Adrien likes/loves as a way to get him to crack about the murder he supposedly committed. OR Jake equated the can of Tab as Adrien himself, saying "I will figure you out and crush you because I know you did it."
It's so cool to hear all these different takes on scenes like this one!
I felt that the Tab bit underlined the fact of how different "worlds" Jake and Adrien come from. How much their "life philosophy" differ from one another. And yes, it did feel a bit like an (unconscious) insult from Jake's part, didn't it?
Anyways, I love how Josh manages to make us ponder and reflect with just a few, seemingly simple lines. All the imagines those lines bring forth! It's truly amazing.
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That "baby" (page 187, Just Joshin print book) surprised me too! At the same time it fell so perfectly in place there. I don't think even Jake himself realized what he'd said. It was said in a moment of such extreme emotions and events that it just came out naturally, like it belonged there.
What I also really, really liked about that scene is that after Jake calls Adrien "baby", he hugs Adrien, and Adrien takes note that Jake's heart was thudding a million miles an hour. Adrien has been pausing to listen to his own heart and its funky beat throughout the story, but this is Jake's heart. For the first time. Thudding a million miles an hour. For Adrien.
:-)
Jordan wrote: "Just started my relisten on the train this morning. And the parts that stood out for me in the first chapter were a. Jake's "But you ARE homosexual?"
b. Jake noticing the Tab, commenting that h..."
I definitely took the crashing of the Tab can as Jake trying to intimidate Adrien. Maybe as a good cop/bad cop routine? I mean that early on, could it really already have significance for their later relationship?
Johanna wrote: "Adrien, and Adrien takes note that Jake's heart was thudding a million miles an hour."True! I noticed that too, and it's evidence that Jake really cared about what happened to Adrien. I don't think I will be able to hold out reading book 2 till next week. :)
Edina wrote: "Mymymble wrote: "Alan wrote: "You know, I never really saw Jake as a self-loathing type of guy or having internalized homophobia, so it was curious reading all the posts mentioning that. To me, J..."
I love how Claude is narrated. I can practically see him posing, saying "Ma belle." I wish we had more of him, too bad he didn't survive. :(
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I have a Fatal Shadows treasure — Gay Men's Press first edition print book (2000). I've been petting it a lot this week. :-) Today I noticed it has been printed and bound in Finland! How fun. :-D
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To my parents, who reassured me early on that the rest of the world was 'just jealous'.
Melissa wrote: "This book isn't even a romance as Jake and Adrien did no romancing. This entire book should be relabeled "Prologue." It's not until the story continues in the coming books that Jake and Adrien really shine. ..."I agree with you, Melissa, which is why I am extremely grateful that I had bought the Adrien English Mysteries version of the first two books together Fatal Shadows / A Dangerous Thing. This not only meant that I got a good price and a nice start to the series, but when I went, huh? at the end of FS, I just skipped right on to the next book.
Which is what I did this week, so I'm nearly finished with A Dangerous Thing. LOL
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I admit that I don't always get things unless they're spelled out for me. What I do remember of my first read was not understanding what Jake meant at the end. I thought I knew, but I wasn't sure.
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It's bizarre as fuck!
This is by far one of the strangest books I've ever read as far as ..."
Yes, Jake's a Master in the BDSM world, which is something I can never seem to remember. And I don't know why. I keep wondering, it seems, every time I read the series, which he is and thinking "Oh, well, that never gets established". And when it is, I go "Oh, I didn't know that!"
lol. I've done it enough times that my final response has now changed to "Oh yeah. I knew that!"
But still...
Why my poor brain can't remember something as simple and obvious as this, I don't know.
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Oh yes. Those of us (myself included!) who h..."
I'm going to be joining in the discussions, but will likely fall behind on the reading as I'm listening to the audio only during my 20-30 minute commute in the morning and evening, unless I'm traveling with other people. So, yeah.
But I've read it enough to comment on lots of good stuff.
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b. Jake, at this point, doesn't know how much Adrien li..."
You bring up a good point. Jake is more of a "health nut" than Adrien, so he's probably watching Adrien swallow a pill with soda and thinking that's a terrible thing to be doing for someone who's so obviously in ill health that he needs to take medication. OR maybe, because he doesn't know what the pill is, maybe he's thinking druggie or meds abuser?
Eh, I could probably go on and on about this the more I think about it. lol.
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Oh wow. Did I note that he's listening to Jake's heart rather than his own for the first time there? I don't remember.
As for the "baby", I seem to recall that flying right over my head too at first. Which tells me that it belongs there, it felt natural, even to me. I probably went back like "wait... what?" but after the fact.
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I totally expected Claude to become one of the main characters throughout the series. I was a bit shocked when he died.
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I have a Fatal Shadows treasure — Gay Men's Press first edition print book (2000). I've been petting it a lot this week. :-) Today I noticed it has been printe..."
:-D Wow, you lucky duck!
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To my parents, who reassured me early on that the rest of the world was 'just jealous'."
:-D I like that!
Melissa wrote: "Johanna wrote: "Adrien, and Adrien takes note that Jake's heart was thudding a million miles an hour."True! I noticed that too, and it's evidence that Jake really cared about what happened to Adr..."
I wonder if Jake was watching Adrien and Bruce when they were in bed. I can only imagine what he was thinking while that was going on.
Jordan wrote: "Melissa wrote: "I've finished the re-read. Upon finishing, I've decided my initial impression of book 1 has not changed. It's bizarre as fuck!
This is by far one of the strangest books I've ever..."
And I keep forgetting that Jake is supposed to be blond.
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This round I'm reading the ebook (and making highlights/notes) while listening to the audiobook. Next week while driving to Tucson for Thanksgiving, I'll likely be listening to THYS. Then as the end of the semester approaches I may even be forced to slow down and get back to the challenge's read schedule… or not. :)
Johanna wrote: "Oh and I love Josh's dedication in the Gay Men's Press Fatal Shadows:To my parents, who reassured me early on that the rest of the world was 'just jealous'."
I love this!
You are so into discussion. I can hardly keep up reading here LOL.I love that bit when Jake hugged Adrien at the end of that horror hostage scene and calls him "baby". That melted my heart. Jake was certain that Adrien will die there and then. That, I think, gave him courage to say what he really feels about Adrien, fear of outing himself to himself be damned.
Sorry, I have been travelling this month. I'm a bit behind in the re-read! I've decided to do this re-read with "paperback" copies - and hopefully no accident in the bathtub! :-PI remember burst out laughing when the first time I read Adrien describes Jake as "USDA Prime".
And I've always wonder when Chan caught on the Jake "has" feelings for Adrien (near the end of the book, when Jake offered to take Adrien home? Or earlier?)
Marge wrote: "Melissa wrote: "This book isn't even a romance as Jake and Adrien did no romancing. This entire book should be relabeled "Prologue." It's not until the story continues in the coming books that Jake..."I am doing pretty good not reading the next book. We'll see what the weekend brings. LOL
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I remember burst ..."
I've read books in the bathtub for years without incident. It's the best way to take a bath, IMO.
That is a good question about Chan. I've wondered that too.
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I love Angus. Right away he was endearing to me, the way he asked if he could take a break, and then how much time he got. And at the end of the day when he says he likes it there in response to whether or not he wants to come back the next day... yeah. He's a good kid, despite what happens in THYS.
My other thought is in regards to buying OOP books. It's amazing what the internet can do for you. When this book came out, I fully believe it did take Adrien nine whole months to track down one book I was able to find for myself within minutes. I'm talking about Here There Be Dragons by Robert Bentley. When I first heard that length of time this morning I had to pause for a moment to realize that back then, Adrien didn't have as much internet access, much less Amazon to help him out.
Alan wrote: "I wonder if Jake was watching Adrien and Bruce when they were in bed. I can only imagine what he was thinking while that was going on.I don't think Jake was watching Adrien and Bruce in bed, but I totally believe he HEARD them. I think Jake was plotting murder of Bruce and possibly Adrien. Bruce, because he dared to touch Adrien, and Adrien because he dared to let himself get into this situation and let Bruce touch him, when Jake wants the be the one touching Adrien. With his mouth. And parts lower, if that wasn't clear. ;)
Linda ~ chock full of hoot, just a little bit of nanny ~ wrote: "And I keep forgetting that Jake is supposed to be blond."Yes, he may be written as a blond, but I never picture him that way. I like dark hair, so that's just how my mind automatically sees him. And it's not like I give him black hair, more a middle brown color.
I also have the two book combo of FS and ADT. I really enjoyed the mystery of FS and it was so well written, but I had been expecting a romance between Adrian and Jake, so I was disappointed in that. I had that expectation because I knew Jake was in the second book. So it is a good thing I had the second book ready to go! ...and then I couldn't get the rest of the books fast enough.I hadn't remembered that Adrien had so many sexual encounters with Bruce (by so many, I mean more than one). That last scene was pretty intense. Someone referred to it as rape, but it really wasn't. Adrien was reluctant and certainly didn't enjoy it, but he did ask for it. I imagine it gave him nightmares for a while. I seem to remember in ADT Adrien thinking back to the last time he had sex and cut that thought out sharply.
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Yes, he may be written as a blond, but I never picture him that way. I li..."
I'm guilty of the same. I don't know why. But now that I've got it more cemented in my head that he's blond, it helps picture him correctly. I don't know why I glossed over that fact early on in my reading, but like many others, I did.
Karen wrote: "This round I'm reading the ebook (and making highlights/notes) while listening to the audiobook."I bow to you. I don't have the dedication to make notes/highlights. And switching from reading to audio I couldn't handle. I'm not much for audios anyway because my mind wanders and I'll be thinking about remodeling my basement when I should be concentrating on the book. :)
Johanna wrote:” That "baby" (page 187, Just Joshin print book) surprised me too! At the same time it fell so perfectly in place there. I don't think even Jake himself realized what he'd said. It was said in a moment of such extreme emotions and events that it just came out naturally, like it belonged there.What I also really, really liked about that scene is that after Jake calls Adrien "baby", he hugs Adrien, and Adrien takes note that Jake's heart was thudding a million miles an hour. Adrien has been pausing to listen to his own heart and its funky beat throughout the story, but this is Jake's heart. For the first time. Thudding a million miles an hour. For Adrien.
:-)”
I saw it that way too, Johanna, like it came natural to Jake. Until that moment Jake’s concern for Adrien’s safety could have been easily mistaken for the simple concern of a cop for a potential victim. That “baby” tells us a different story.
The hug and Adrien listening to Jake’s heart was another adorable moment. I didn’t think about it being the first time that Adrien focused on Jake’s heartbeat instead of his own. So sweet.
RL has been kind of a mess the last couple of days and I read all the comments here, they were a nice escape from reality for a few minutes, but I couldn’t find the time and energy to reply or even start ADT. The mental image of Adrien and Jake hugging for the first time was just what I needed to get in the right mood again, thank you. :-)
Speaking of ADT, do we start discussing it on Monday or before?
I recall someone proposing to start the discussion on the next book the weekend before the official week, but I don’t remember if it remained only a suggestion.
thelastaerie wrote: "And I've always wonder when Chan caught on the Jake "has" feelings for Adrien (near the end of the book, when Jake offered to take Adrien home? Or earlier?)"I think Chan noticed something earlier, but I could never decide how much of Chan’s surprise was about Jake’s evident hostility toward every “homosexual” aspect of the case, like it wasn’t Jake’s usual behavior during investigations to show so much contempt for the victim’s background, and how much was about Jake’s behavior with Adrien specifically.
I think it was gradual, though. The seed of doubt was planted in FS, but he was completely sure later.
Linda ~ chock full of hoot, just a little bit of nanny ~ wrote: "And I keep forgetting that Jake is supposed to be blond."LOL.
I’m one of those that have always pictured Jake blond, but during this last re-read I thought of the famous debate about Jake’s hair color every time he was described as blond and smiled to myself at the power of a reader’s brain.
When you picture a character in a certain way in your mind there’s no amount of physical description that’ll convince you otherwise, no matter the number of re-reads. :-D
Mymymble wrote: "The poor bloke was constantly exhausted with fighting nicotine dependence anyway.":-D
I've always pictured Jake blond... but sort of "dirty blond" rather than ash blond, just a preference of mine when it comes to blond shades. And also because of the young Steve McQueen reference. Though I also pictured him like Russell Crowe with a crew cut in "L A Confidential" :-)
Mymymble wrote: "In FS I think Chan knew from a few chapters in. Certainly well before the end."Do you mean he knew something was up or he knew for certain?
If Chan knew for certain so early in the story about Jake’s interest, that would mean that Jake’s façade had started to crack long before Adrien came in the picture.
Otherwise Chan would be extremely intuitive to come to the conclusion that his straight partner is not so straight from only a couple of interactions and Jake’s behavior differing from the usual when it comes to his job.
It doesn’t seem realistic to me. Chan could have started having doubts early in FS, but I can’t believe he was sure at that point, unless something happened to make him doubt before the events in FS and Adrien was just the confirmation.
And I'm not convinced he knew for certain even at the end of FS.
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True! I noticed that too, and it's evidence that Jake really cared about what happened to Adr..."
I wonder if Jake was watching Adrien and Bruce when they were in bed. I can only imagine what he was thinking while that was going on."
Even listening to it... must have been excruciating for him.
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A sure sign of an honorary Fanyon... :-D :-D :-D
Loretta wrote: "That last scene was pretty intense. Someone referred to it as rape, but it really wasn't. Adrien was reluctant and certainly didn't enjoy it, but he did ask for it."He "asked" for it because he felt his life was at risk if he didn't. It was a stalling tactic, and I would still count it as rape since under normal circumstances he would not have made the same choice.
Elena wrote: "Mymymble wrote: "In FS I think Chan knew from a few chapters in. Certainly well before the end."Do you mean he knew something was up or he knew for certain?
If Chan knew for certain so early in ..."
I agree, Elena. I don't see how Chan could know anything based on what we see in FS. I think at most he is surprised at Jake's actions and reactions. He can't possibly know the reason behind it though. Or - as you said - he would be "extremely intuitive." If something happened off page, that's cheating and doesn't count as were weren't privy to that info.
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Good question!
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I FINALLY bought this one the other day! Still waiting for it to arrive. It's going to be one of my Christmas holiday reads. :-)
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I don't think Jake was watching Adrien and Bruce..."
Yes.
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Yes! Well said.
Q&A with Josh Lanyon
Books mentioned in this topic
Fatal Shadows / A Dangerous Thing (other topics)Stranger Things Have Happened: An Adrien English Write Your Own Damn Story (other topics)
The Boy with the Painful Tattoo (other topics)
Here there be dragons (other topics)
Fatal Shadows / A Dangerous Thing (other topics)
More...
It's bizarre as fuck!
This is by far one of the strangest books I've ever read as far as murder plot, characters, and relationships. There is so much going on that you have to pay attention (or not and still have the answers in the end), and still the relationship (if you want to call it that) between Jake and Adrien is surprising. When Jake calls Adrien "baby" at the end, I was stunned. I didn't remember he had done that, and it just came out of left field!
This book isn't even a romance as Jake and Adrien did no romancing. This entire book should be relabeled "Prologue." It's not until the story continues in the coming books that Jake and Adrien really shine. I'd forgotten how short this book is too. Another mark in the "prologue" column.
Any yet, I am fascinated by Jake and Adrien. Adrien with his snark, Jake with his broody cynicism and darkness/secrecy.
This book is masterfully crafted so you can't help but demand to know WHAT HAPPENS NEXT!
This is just the lead in to their relationship. I've read them all, so I know what to expect, and my heart hurts for poor Adrien, because again, I know what's coming.
I am excited to start book 2, (not sure I can wait till next week, but we'll see), and visit these two impossible men again. Just want to give Jack a big slap and shake, yell at him to Wake the Fuck Up!!
In this first introduction, Jack's feelings towards his homosexuality (as he likes to call it) are not clearly defined. He has hang ups, but the reasons aren't given yet. Jake participates in a BDSM club, and Adrien thinks it's because Jake feels he deserves that sort of relationship.
"Pain and bondage and humiliation and punishment - everything he felt he deserved, no doubt."
It's not until later that I truly believe Jake does have a self-hatred of himself for being "gay." He doesn't like it, he doesn't want to be gay, he does bondage and chains (or something - it's never established that I recall what Jake really does there) as a way to...lessen the importance of gay sex. If he has sex with men in that sort of atmosphere, it's ok because it's nothing but sex, there are no feelings involved. But if he were to have sex in a bed with touching and kissing, that would make it more. And since Jake doesn't want (or think he wants nor can he have) a caring relationship with a man (because he knows how his family will feel, as well as how it would make himself feel), he has trouble resolving his feelings for Adrien.
Jake cares very much what other people think of him (his family, his partner, his brothers in blue, the public - strangers on the street), and he knows that he can't handle the hatred that would be aimed his way for being gay. So, he fights himself and has relationships with women (or a woman), and has bondage fun with men. I am seriously surprised Jake didn't kill himself a long time ago.
Wow, what a downer to end this on!