Tudor History Lovers discussion
The Six Wives of Henry VIII.. What Book with that Theme is the best?
Ooh thanks John! Think I may read it after I finish this!I try to be tactful in my approach when I describe people.. By paranoid/distrustful I actually mean stark raving mad haha!
Catherine wrote: "Ooh thanks John! Think I may read it after I finish this!I try to be tactful in my approach when I describe people.. By paranoid/distrustful I actually mean stark raving mad haha!"
It's going to be an interesting perspective. She goes off on David Starkey in the Intro and rips Chapuys a new one in the first chapter. Really different approach.
But how much more can be said thou?I would think that all the authors on this subject get the same material to work with?
Like I told Catherine John..one of these days:)And I have that book written down to get..The Children of HenryVIII..thank you:)
I really don't think that on the subject of Henry VIII there isn't much more that can be written. It's all the same information. Unless they find new letters and manuscripts, we are not going to learn anything new.
and about his wives either probably.I have Henry the VIII book by Margaret George and its good:)
Alison Weir's The Children of Henry VIII is very good - I haven't read John Guy's.
It's not that there are new documents, necessarily; it's how you interpret them. There's a world of difference in how you can interpret them.
Susanna - Censored by GoodReads wrote: "It's not that there are new documents, necessarily; it's how you interpret them. There's a world of difference in how you can interpret them."Precisely why it's good to read different authors so you can get a variety of views therefore you can draw your own conclusion as to what their character MAY have been like.
It would be cool if there were some new material(documents or letters) to surface.
Johanna wrote: "Susanna - Censored by GoodReads wrote: "Yes, Anne of Cleves outlived all the other wives; she lived until 1557, and was present at Mary's coronation."Thank you Susanna."
This is interesting.
Johanna wrote: "There should be more books about Anne of Cleves..a fiction book from the point of her view would be excellent
since she has experienced so many events of the Tudor era in her lifetime."
This raises a good point; we hear very little about her, and I wonder if it's due to the fact she got out in the nick of time.
I also think to that she outlives all of Henry's wives as well Skye.
Marian wrote: "That's ok..this time..lol!"I am so curious wandering onto this thread; what book?
Skye wrote: "Johanna wrote: "There should be more books about Anne of Cleves..a fiction book from the point of her view would be excellent
since she has experienced so many events of the Tudor era in her lifet..."
I agree. There should be more on her. She was very fortunate. I'm suprised after his annulment as to how well he treated her. I think that deep down maybe he genuinely cared for her.
Skye wrote: "Marian wrote: "That's ok..this time..lol!"I am so curious wandering onto this thread; what book?"
Hello Skye..were talking about a book of Henry the VIII and his wives:)
I think the correct title Skye is The 6 Wives of Henry the VIII by Alison Weir and the book I would like to get is the one by David Starkey.
Ok, there's a few books that are being discussed, then.
And another one that I want to read Skye..is The Children of Henry the VIII.I think that one is by Alison Weir??
There are at least three books called "The Six Wives of Henry VIII" - by (alphabetically) Antonia Fraser, David Starkey, and Alison Weir.
Well, I will start with what I have soon and see where it takes me. This is a great book group, and I am learning so much through the threads.
Susanna - Censored by GoodReads wrote: "There are at least three books called "The Six Wives of Henry VIII" - by (alphabetically) Antonia Fraser, David Starkey, and Alison Weir."Susanna, thank you so much; I am actually going to copy and paste your post above.
There are probably more books with exactly that title, but I just haven't seen them.
i>Skye wrote: "Ok, there's a few books that are being discussed, then."Here are the 2 books mentioned. We've been mostly discussing the Wives They are both by Alison Weir
The Children of Henry VIII
The Six Wives of Henry VIII<
John wrote: "Marian wrote: "One of these days Catherine,one of these days,Im going to read that book you are currently reading:)))I have it here.Just don't know when thou,as I have so many others I want to dig ..."The children of Henry VIII is amazing! It gave an interesting new insight in the minds of Henry's children (and Jane Grey). I'm glad that you liked it too John!
Did you read Antonia Frasers book about the six wives too?
Catherine wrote: "I think towards the end of his reign he knew he would not father anymore children and was desperately lonely. Imagine being surrounded by hundreds of people everyday yet never knowing who your true..."You put it perfectly Catherine.. When i see his whole life in front of me he seems to be a very unhappy man. He did terrible things and i don't want to justify things he did
he certainly turned more people sad that one could count..
But he killed so many of people he trusted or was close to..
Even if he thought that it was right what he did i don't think that anyone could go through all that with a clean conscience and that must have been a huge reason he turned so paranoid in later life. No one knows if he knew that people like Anne were innocent and he wanted to get rid of them or he just believed what his courtiers told him! He certainly regretted some death later and blamed other people to made him do it.. It was wolsey i think but i'm not sure. His whole life seemed to be a search after love but somehow he never got it. Other kings just married for political reason but for Henry it was apparently not an option.. only Anne of Cleves of course but that was a disaster. And he was very ill for most of his life.. Maybe it had something to do with his actions as well. I can't believe that a putrid festering wound on his leg didn't poisoned his whole body as well. You are right no one could go through all that perfectly sane! It's was probably not so bad that he didn't live to see his son dying so early.
Do you think that Henry blamed Anne but knew she was innocent or did he just believed what he was being told?
John wrote: "Catherine wrote: "Ooh thanks John! Think I may read it after I finish this!I try to be tactful in my approach when I describe people.. By paranoid/distrustful I actually mean stark raving mad ha..."
Sounds interesting :D
Susanna - Censored by GoodReads wrote: "There are probably more books with exactly that title, but I just haven't seen them."I googled it but those 3 seem to be the only one that exist .. Until now.
Johanna wrote: "Do you think that Henry blamed Anne but knew she was innocent or did he just believed what he was being told?"I think she was innocent of the crimes she was charged with..and I thought I read where she also got pardoned???They would like us to believe she was plotting the Kings life.Im not to sure of that anymore.
I read in The Other Boleyn Girl book..that Anne begged her brother to have sex with her,but I think she was wayyy to smart for that to have ever happened.Sure,after her miscarriages,who wouldn't think like this..but nooo.
i>Johanna wrote: "John wrote: "Marian wrote: "One of these days Catherine,one of these days,Im going to read that book you are currently reading:)))I have it here.Just don't know when thou,as I have so many others I..."No but I will add it to my list. Here is a very short book that is a word for word transcript of Elizabeths Diary from 1544-1546 that i found very interesting. My daughter picked it up at a 2nd hand store.
Elizabeth I: Red Rose of the House of Tudor, England, 1544<
Marian wrote: "I read in The Other Boleyn Girl book..that Anne begged her brother to have sex with her,but I think she was wayyy to smart for that to have ever happened.Sure,after her miscarriages,who wouldn't th..."I agree! i still don't understand Phillipa Gergorys decision to let Anne act like this in her book.. I saw a documentary about Henry's six wives on youtube and she was the only! historian who thinks that this could have happened..
Without any historical proof. The only proof they had then about her incestuous relationship was that Anne spend a lot of time with him and kissed him on his mouth? As far as i know it was perfectly normal in Tudor times to greet someone by kissing him on his mouth. You're right she was too clever. I don't think that anyone would consider having sex with a brother just to save ones life.. i wouldn't :D
And this is even more true in times like this when you have to fear for your immortal soul
Anne was just very unpopular at court and i'm sure that she was just very close to her brother. He was probably one of the only people she could talk to at that time ..
I think that they wanted to shock people.. to show them what
a terrible woman she was and to give a reason why to kill her. They wanted to paint a picture of a woman without any morals and they succeeded!
Marian wrote: "Johanna wrote: "Do you think that Henry blamed Anne but knew she was innocent or did he just believed what he was being told?"I think she was innocent of the crimes she was charged with..and I ..."
She was pardoned by Elizabeth after she took the throne. Sadly though it was a few years too late.
It must have been unbelievable terrible for her hearing the accusations.. and that her uncle presided over the trial made it even worse.
Marian wrote: "Johanna wrote: "Do you think that Henry blamed Anne but knew she was innocent or did he just believed what he was being told?"I think she was innocent of the crimes she was charged with..and I ..."
http://www.theanneboleynfiles.com/the...
John wrote: "i>Johanna wrote: "John wrote: "Marian wrote: "One of these days Catherine,one of these days,Im going to read that book you are currently reading:)))I have it here.Just don't know when thou,as I hav..."I put it on my to-read list!
Johanna wrote: "Marian wrote: "I read in The Other Boleyn Girl book..that Anne begged her brother to have sex with her,but I think she was wayyy to smart for that to have ever happened.Sure,after her miscarriages,..."From what I understand is George was really gay(or at least bi) and he only married for political status. It was his estranged wife who later turned on him. Do NOT quote me on that, that's just what I see from what I've read. I don't think there is any real proof of incest. I believe its another story that was made up to get rid of Anne by Thomas Cromwell.
John wrote: "Marian wrote: "Johanna wrote: "Do you think that Henry blamed Anne but knew she was innocent or did he just believed what he was being told?"I think she was innocent of the crimes she was charg..."
Elizabeth wanted to write a book about Annes life too as far as i know. Sadly it either wasn't finished or disappeared.
Did you see the ring she had with the picture of Anne and her? She didn't talk a lot of Anne in her life time.. she feared probably that talk about her legitimacy would come up. But she certainly thought about her.
http://onthetudortrail.com/Blog/wp-co...
John wrote: "Johanna wrote: "Marian wrote: "I read in The Other Boleyn Girl book..that Anne begged her brother to have sex with her,but I think she was wayyy to smart for that to have ever happened.Sure,after h..."No there is not real proof about it you're right John!
I just read this article about Jane Boleyn and it gave me to think about her role in her husbands downfall
http://www.theanneboleynfiles.com/jan...
Exactly John!But I really like my Philippa Gregory books to, and after all,they are fiction to be honest.And I will keep reading her:)There's just no proof!
There was certainly no great love between her and George!I think that it could be true that he was gay or partially.
He said something that could mean this in his speech before dying as far as i know.
Marian wrote: "Exactly John!But I really like my Philippa Gregory books to, and after all,they are fiction to be honest.And I will keep reading her:)There's just no proof!"
I cannot judge Philippa because I haven't read enough to make any judgement of her. I'm not much of a fiction type of reader. I will have to read more of her books.
I liked both of her series,but really liked her Cousins War series the best.Starting off with The White Queen and 2 pages in..I was hooked,and read all of them.
Marian wrote: "I liked both of her series,but really liked her Cousins War series the best.Starting off with The White Queen and 2 pages in..I was hooked,and read all of them."I just might check them out; As long as there not some chick romances. ;)
I don't think you have to worry bout that John..even Philippa throws in a war or 2:)
Watched "Mary of Scots" with Catherine Hepburn(1934) last night. An Interesting perspective on her life. Might have to find a couple books on her in the near future.
Tudor History Lovers
Books mentioned in this topic
The Life and Death of Anne Boleyn (other topics)The Children of Henry VIII (other topics)
Mary Queen of Scots (other topics)
Mary, Queen of Scots and the Murder of Lord Darnley (other topics)
Mary Queen of Scots (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
David Starkey (other topics)David Starkey (other topics)
I personnaly think that Anne and Catherine were railroaded and not as guilty as they were charged. I think that Anne may have not cheated after she was married to him but we will never truly know for sure. History is written by the winners not the losers.
I find it hard to believe that Henry would have really found a woman to his standards.
Catherine, I think a bit mad, paranoid and distrustful and devious may be an understatement for him.
I am almost done with this book and have already started on The Creation of Anne Boleyn: A New Look at England's Most Notorious Queen which is the subject of this next months readathon. The authors introduction is 17 pages long and she tears ALL authors apart on how she feels. This will be a very interesting book. I'm finished with chapter one, but giving no spoilers.