The Official Jane Austen Book Club discussion
Pride & Prejudice
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The Relationships
To me, absolutely Liz and Darcy: made for each other.
Emily wrote: "To me, absolutely Liz and Darcy: made for each other."
agree. I love them together. Even though he is insulting when he confesses his love for her.
Charlotte only married Mr. Collins to give her peace of mind. He was well off and she thought she wouldn't get any better. Plus she was heading to spinsterhood.
agree. I love them together. Even though he is insulting when he confesses his love for her.
Charlotte only married Mr. Collins to give her peace of mind. He was well off and she thought she wouldn't get any better. Plus she was heading to spinsterhood.
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Literary Couples that Never Were (And Why They Should Have Been)
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Emily wrote: "To me, absolutely Liz and Darcy: made for each other."I totally agree- they are in so much L O V E, I can't stand it.
Alex Farrand wrote: "Emily wrote: "To me, absolutely Liz and Darcy: made for each other."agree. I love them together. Even though he is insulting when he confesses his love for her.
Charlotte only married Mr. Collin..."
i always loved the line about her sitting room thats especially hers....almost like she's hiding from Mr. Collins!
that is funny. I wish I had my own room so I could hide.
Jessie wrote: "Emily wrote: "To me, absolutely Liz and Darcy: made for each other."I totally agree- they are in so much L O V E, I can't stand it."
True! :)
About Collins and Charlotte, I think she deserves someone better... and I think Elizabeth will agree with me hahaha.
Madeline wrote: "Mary and Mr. Collins -- I dislike both of them but think they would have been really happy together. In the Kiera Knightley movie, there are multiple occasions where they hinted the Mary loved Mr. ..."Yes, I noticed that too, in the 2005 movie. I really hoped they would get married, they are so much like each other!
Wow I've never heard of Elizabeth and Willoughby! I admit I will be an Elizabeth Darcy fan forever. Nobody holds a candle to Darcy for Elizabeth. Possibly Mr Knightley. He seems to be a close intellectual equal and the sort of serious person she enjoys teasing.Charlotte married for provision and she reasoned Mr Collins would not be the sort of man to abuse or manipulate her, as he doesn't have the intellectual capacity or inclination to. And given the ease with which she can get him to spend time in his garden, seems more of an annoying roommate situation.
An aside: Wish Austen had written a sequel in which Elizabeth and Darcy go on a trip with Charlotte and Mr Collins, and they are stranded together. Like in that episode of Frasier with everyone sharing the cabin, all sorts of hilarity and misunderstandings then ensue...
I love the Elizabeth and Darcy love story, but I myself am more of a Jane. And as Jane I prefer a Bingley type. Happy, amiable, and none of that complicated brooding drama. Jane and Bingley are my favorite couple!
Jessie wrote: "Good morning guys!Where are we in reading? Is everyone enjoying it? Any burning questions about societal customs we explore in the book? ( I know I was very confused about strangers being allowed ..."
I'm curious about why you put Elizabeth and Willoughby together? WIlloughby seems to be a selfish rogue. Is there some fan fiction I've missed that puts them together?
Alex Farrand wrote: "Emily wrote: "To me, absolutely Liz and Darcy: made for each other."agree. I love them together. Even though he is insulting when he confesses his love for her.
Charlotte only married Mr. Collin..."
I agree with you! :)
Madeline wrote: "I love the Elizabeth and Darcy love story, but I myself am more of a Jane. And as Jane I prefer a Bingley type. Happy, amiable, and none of that complicated brooding drama. Jane and Bingley are my ..."True. Lizzy and Darcy are my favorite forever, but I have to admit that Jane and Bingley are the most cute couple I have seen. I like much more Jane and Bingley from the version movie of 2005. They have chemistry. What do you think?
Lizzy and Darcy are the BEST!!! Jane and Bingley are gr8 too. Mr. Bennett...well, you gotta feel bad for the poor guy. Charlotte, judging her character, was okay with Collins. All she wanted was security. I love how Elizabeth and Darcy match up their wits so well - neither can fully outdo the other - most of the time.
Hello, so my thoughts about the relationships in P&P:Mr. Collins and Charlotte~ so sad, Mary and Mr. Collins would have been perfect, she loved him and looked up to him for his foibles, she loved sermons and soft music and his kind of conversation. Charlotte gave up love and partnership in marriage for awkward conversations and hiding in her sitting room.
I think Charlotte is more like "the normal girl" for the time. We need to bear in mind that Elizabeth is the lucky and the daring one here. Marrying and being in love were two different things at that time. And that's exactly what Mrs. Benett assumes...she doesn't need her girls to be in love, she needs them to be financially safe and set for their future! I totally understand Charlotte from that point of view. Mr. Collins can be dealt with, he has good fortune and his heart in the right place. To me the best relationship in this book is -big surprise- between Elizabeth and Darcy. I like it a lot how they keep noticing each other, thinking about each other, even before anything really starts. Lizzy doesn't hate him half as much as she believes to. They are drawn to each other despite themselves, losing all control over common courtesy and good sense. And that makes it a fantastic novel.
I also like the relationship between Mr. and Mrs. Benett. They keep bickering at each other, and it seems like Mr. Benett takes his wife for a total idiot. However, it is in reality the exact reverse, and he knows it.
Is it only me or was Miss Bingley once refused by Darcy? Also an interesting couple...
I also love the relationship between Jane and Bingley, Jane is content, calm and in control of herself and her emotions, Bingley is happy, full of gusto and quickly approving. They both have optimism and a desire to see the best in others. This draws them to each other, from the first time they meet. Jane in introverted. Bingley is extroverted. They both balance and help each other to become better - together.
Lizzie and Darcy are such a good pair for so many reasons. But it's their realist approach to life that make them so different and slow to realize their love than Jane and Bingley. They know life isn't all daisy chains and sunshine, and their wit and banter demonstrates this perfectly. Both see flaws of others easily, and therefore can not pretend that situations are better than they are. Darcy knows that Elisabeth's family is the worst for a social connection. She is prejudiced against those who don't see eye to eye with her, he is pridefully aloof from those he doesn't have an intimate acquaintance. She notices that he is sarcastic and unable to join the general pleasantries of social convention. (She also does these two things constantly throughout the book, which is so amusing! :D)
In actuality, they have so much in common, their honesty, love of art, love of home, love of reading, close love of their sisters, enjoyment of outside, sense of humor and wit, and their willingness to help right desperate wrongs no matter the cost!
What I enjoy most about their relationship, is the growth they both struggle toward as they learn of their faults from the other. They both bend over backwards for each other to prove that they can change, and will be different! Love is action and this story is about two people who will do whatever they can to become more lovely for the one they love.
And I agree, Pauline! Charlotte is the normal girl who decides what's important to her. You're absolutely right!! :) and good point about Mrs. Bennet, she was only thinking of her girls' safety and security! Never thought of it that way before!
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Madeline Osigian
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Wow! That was neat! And I love your blog! :)
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Thank you so much! I hope you stick around for some beautiful inspiration!
Madeline Osigian
Creator & Moderator | The Official Jane Austen Book Club
http://thelittledecorator.blogspot.com/
Hi people, I'm new. Druing the lockdown I've now fallen in love with 19th century novels and currently read pride & prejudice. I absolutely love it and am sad not to have read it before. I love the dialogues in which Elizabeth takes part, especially between her and Darcy because it's a kind of back and forth that makes it so exciting.
I was wondering, though, what the "etc." at the end of the letters mean.
And to Collins and Charlotte: I like Charlotte she is reasonable and a kind of "steady" friend, if you now what I mean. It was good for her to have married Collins and I believe he could not have found a better wife. Btw I absolutely love that guy. The subtlety of his stupidity makes the book so much more enjoyable.
👋🏼👐🏼
Maddie wrote: "I also love the relationship between Jane and Bingley, Jane is content, calm and in control of herself and her emotions, Bingley is happy, full of gusto and quickly approving. They both have optimi..."I love them together, too and I could not agree more. This depiction of love is beautiful In a real kind of way. But I have to say that i didn't know what to think of Darcy changing or behaving differently for her so much.
Also: Jane annoys me sometimes with her "all people are good even if proven differently" - she seems naive often and it exhausts.
Lily wrote: "Hi people, I'm new. Druing the lockdown I've now fallen in love with 19th century novels and currently read pride & prejudice. I absolutely love it and am sad not to have read it before. I love t..."
Hi Lily!
I'm so glad you discovered the joys of Jane Austen! I too love Mr. Collins, he's a wonderfully drawn comedic character!
I think either ect. is used as a way of signing off letters because the person's name is included on the return address. Or, it's a device used by Austen because she has already given the name of the letter writer and giving it again would seem like wasted space. I could be totally wrong on both guesses though. :)
Anna wrote: "Lily wrote: "Hi people, I'm new. Druing the lockdown I've now fallen in love with 19th century novels and currently read pride & prejudice. I absolutely love it and am sad not to have read it bef..."
Alright thank you, that's what I expected but I wasn't sure either ;)
Hello helloMy most favorite couple is Elizabeth and Darcy.And then Jane and bingly(their relationship was sooo cute🥺)
About Mr.Collins and Sharlotte I believe both of them just wanted to get married so they didn’t think and care about love!!(Excatly oposite of Lizzy who said only a great love can make me want to get married)
Mr and Mrs Bennet are not similar but I think they are good matches for each other(imagine what would have happened if Mrs.Bennet had a husband like herself!!!)
I don’t think Mr Bennet is happy though.
Anyone know how big Longbourne is? Certainly bigger than my house and yard. but what kind of acrege would it have been. Assuming no damn pigs in the yard. They were not farming it themselves.
There was a lot of variation in manor houses, so it’s hard to say. Probably a few acres of fenced parkland (because they have both a shrubbery and a wilderness) were immediately around the house. Mr. Bennet’s income was quite high, £2,000 per year, which means he also controlled fairly extensive farmlands from which he drew rent from tenants, in addition to running the home farm, on which his own horses were sometimes used, doubling as carriage horses.Plus he had some wild land and woodland on his property because he shot game. Of course, some part of his income might derive from being a silent partner in some of Mr. Gardiner’s ventures, but we aren’t ever told that. I don’t think it’s explicitly said that he was lord of the manor of Longbourn, but with that profile (and with no equally genteel neighbors) he almost certainly was. If he was lord of the manor, then nearly all villagers and cottages in the community would be his tenants.
I think it's made clear that, when Wickham wants cash to marry Lydia, that Mr Bennet can't raise it (presumably because he can't raise a mortgage on entailed property?), and he would need his brother in law, Mr Gardiner to do so (not knowing Mr Darcy will provide the bribe).There's a line somewhere where he worryingly says to Lizzie, once they hear Lydia and Wickham have married, is that he asks 'I want to know how much Mr Gardiner has put down, and how am I to repay him?'
Because of entails, it was hard to raise cash by borrowing against the estate, and only the profits made from things like timber, or selling wheat etc, can be kept. Presumably, thouigh, the larger the estate, the more chance to make a profit out of estate 'enterprises' (ie, things like timber, direct selling of wheat grow on the home farm etc), and, indeed, the higher the rent rolls from the tenanted farms. (That said, I think it was Abigail (?) saying that the profit from timber on the land was not always usable by the owner, as it depreciated the value of the estate to cut down timber, so might be in breach of the entails? Coppicing - where timber is grown rapidly over a few years, then cut down, or even 'harvested' with a main bole/trunk left to keep growing - might have been the only option, eg, to crop for firewood, fencing, charcoal)
Apart from using the profits, and the rent, to keep the Big Family in comfort, pay for servants, buy food, feed carriage horses, buy clothes etc, the main cost to the estate owner at any time was probably the upkeep of the Big House itself. Heating would be expensive, decorating expensive and then structural repairs to roofs, windows etc, all needing to be done at some point.)
Ironicalky, it is the upkeep costs of large 'Big Houses' that cripples families who hang on to their landed estates these days without sufficient income coming in to keep the Big Houses going.... (damp, dry rot, collapsing roofs, rotting floorboards, freezing cold in winter, etc etc.....)
Beth-In-UK wrote: "I think it's made clear that, when Wickham wants cash to marry Lydia, that Mr Bennet can't raise it (presumably because he can't raise a mortgage on entailed property?), and he would need his broth..."They seem to have a lot of them to use in filming Midsomer Murders, period dramas, and all sorts of BBC shows shown on American Public Televison (as opposed to Hollywood crap). There must be some good rental value for cinematic purposes. In Midsomer Murders it sometimes seems there are no episodes without excessively rich people in enormous houses.
Being used as TV and film locations is definitely a way for Big House owners to make some money. It can be very dislocating however - the film crews 'take over' and things like radiators and so on have to be moved or concealed. I think the family are torn between wanting to stay out of the way, and hovering to see the film crews don't do any damage!!!For some great houses, like Highclere, which became Downton Abbey, the fame is so great they can make a living out of it for years to come. No one had heard of Highclere just about before it became Downton - now it is very high on the tourist map!
so I just finished pride and prejudice recently and to be honest I never expected to be a Jane austin fan but I fell head over heals with the stories as soon as I read sense and sensibility. Jane austin is a great author and makes me want to read books similar to hers, but for pride and prejudice it's so mainstream I thought I might not enjoy it as much as sense and sensibility but I did! it was hilarious! And I loved how sweet Jane was and how Mr. Darcy changed for the better, when he gave Elizabeth the letter explaining why he separated Mr. Bingley and Jane I was still upset with Mr. Darcy, but later on in the book I was like "oh he's actually quite nice" lol anyway I really liked the book
I think I'm still new to Jane austin because I've only read two novels so far, and I'm working my way through the third but I'm having so much fun reading these stories :)
I feel like I felt bad for Kitty a little in the story but THANK GOODNESS she learned to have some sense, I feel like Jane is a favorite and Mr. Bingley is sweet, I really liked how everything works out in the end of Jane Austin novels
The "right" people get their happy ending, except Lady Susan.
Beatrix, I read JA for many many years because they are so much fun and sort of relaxing from my own and the worlds problems,On the same hand they approach real problems. my friends all laugh at me for being so struck or stuck on her, I have convinced one neighbor (aged 70) to start but she is a slow reader and I am all anxious to hear her thoughts.What do you think of Charlotte? Have you watched any of the films? if not do so after you have read the novels and preferably the bbc mini series and not the hour and half films which are far from the novels
Definitely BBC over Hollywood and I am an American not a Brit.
Thanks SOOO much for telling me about the different adaptations, I've been really wanting to watch them but I can't seem to find which one is "better"
Oh and I get completely lost in books all the time, I think people just see someone as "reading " and not being completely lost in the stories and concepts and themes in the story...I say continue loving Jane Austin! lol it's better to be completely star struck by a story than to be reading a boring one
in my opinion the best film adaptions are old and may seem strange to modern eyes (I dont know how old you are but assume under 25) they are;( all bbc mini series) P&p 1995 however the the 1985 isnt bad especially if you are British The Mr Darcy is very British and a bit hard for others to understand his attractions ,Mansfield Park 1986.Persuasion 1971 (ignore the hairdo)Sense & sensibility 1981, Emma1972. As for Northanger Abby there isnt a good film evidently it is too deep( The Depths are hidden} and the film industry too dense to understand it....
ohhhhh ok thanks for explaining, I've heard of the 1995 P&P but everyone always talks about the newest adaption (I forgot what year it came out in) this is super helpful though, thanks a lot :)
Many younger people like the theatrical version (2005?) with Keira Knightly but it is not faithful to the book and it really misses on the themes of the book and character motivations and understandings. The score and cinematography are nice, though.
I think the more recent Hollywood versions try to turn Austen into a romance writer which she was not. Sure, there was romance. But she wrote social commentary, and comedy, and lack of agency of women. They things are just as important to the story. Darcy judged Elizabeth because he judged her family because THEY did not behave properly in public. He made this assessment before Lydia ran off with Wickham. He did not judge Elizabeth for her public behavior. That is why it is such a wrong choice for her to be running around outside in a nightgown with her hair down. Elizabeth would not do that because she behaved properly. The Hollywood version is full of examples like this that make you think no one set actually read or understood the book. The just read a book report by a 12 year old girl and went from there.
So they ruin things for the Jane Austin purists when they change the essence of the characters or the themes of the book. If you want to modernize Jane, Clueless is fun and well done but the latest Persuasion is dreadful. That is not who Anne is and the beauty of that book is lost in a drunken, clumsy Anne with modern language and ideals.
wow I didn't know all that, it sounds like they really messed up persuasion as well as didn't follow P&P at all, I honestly get upset when a book is turned into a movie and then the movie just rips the book to shreds at how horrible the adaption of it is, but I'm a little used to having books I like being ruined by their movies unfortunately
I haven't read persuasion yet but I'm moving along in Mansfield park and im on chapter 30 something of that book, this makes me appreciate the Jane Austin books more though. I can see your point on people trying to make her a "Romance" writer because that's all I hear about, even though I like the romance in the books it's not the only thing to give her writing substance
Where are we in reading? Is everyone enjoying it? Any burning questions about societal customs we explore in the book? ( I know I was very confused about strangers being allowed to tour a house in the later chapters!)
This week's discussion theme is going to be on the relationships! We have several to look at- Jane and Bingley, Liz and Darcy, Mr and Mrs. Bennett, Mr. Collins and Charlotte, and for some of us- Liz and Willoughby.
How do you think they compare with each other- which couple is your favorite and why?
And WHAT do we think of Mr. Collins and Charlotte Lucas?!
Have a great week guys, and happy reading!