THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP discussion
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2016 - October - Theme Read on any Unit Involved in WW2 (unit history).
Okay, I guess I'll kick things off. I'm going to be reading this one, and really looking forward to it:
Revenge of the Red Raiders: The Illustrated History of the 22nd Bombardment Group During World War II
An excellent choice Marc, I'll look forward to your comments.
Good stuff Rick. I have 2 lined up though both are short and by the same author and are thematic. Mates And Memories: Recollections Of The 2/10th Field Regiment R. A. A and Medics and Memories Further Recollections Of The 2/10th Field Regiment R. A. A.
I am having a bit of trouble finding the correct sources to get Goodreads to put the correct cover on the 1st book and even finding a source to get Goodreads to put the 2nd book on it's database. Will have another look this evening when I get in from work and have time. I was involved in the republishing and reprint of these 2 books back in the 2009 under a Qld State government grant as part of the Q150 project and this is a ideal opportunity to get stuck into what for me is local history.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
Sounds like two excellent unit histories! I've managed to get one fixed for you:
Mates And Memories: Recollections Of The 2/10th Field Regiment R. A. A by Robert Goodwin
Thanks Rick. Much appreciated.Not that this matters at all but just a passing comment the image you have found has reprint in the bottom corner. My book is also a reprint and is the same cover but lacks of the red reprint flash. Interesting. I wonder if they have been able to keep this book in print because of it's popularity and has gone onto to further prints through the local Boolarong Press. I hope so as this is a genuine Qld born and bred unit. I live a kilometre from Boolarong Press and pass on my way to work everyday. They have a 25% off sign out the front and it is taking every bit of will power I have to not stop and have a look. The trials and tribulations of a book reader/hoarder lol.
I cheated a little, and am about 25 pages into "A Dawn Like Thunder" about Torpedo Squadron 8 of the USS Hornet that fought so heroically at Midway and Guadalcanal.
You can cheat a little Paul, that's OK :)If I recall correctly I found that book to be pretty good account so hopefully you will enjoy it as well. I will be keen to hear your thoughts as you go.
I'm not too sure which book to read as I have quite a few unit histories sitting about calling to me but at the moment, and this is always subject to a last minute change of mind, this book is calling the loudest:
Into Oblivion Kharkov To Stalingrad: The Story Of Pionier-Bataillon 305 by Jason D. Mark
Next month, I plan to read "4th Fighter Group - Debden Eagles" by Chris Bucholtz
The 4th Fighter Group of the United States Army Air Force (USAAF) saw action over Europe against the Luftwaffe from September 1942 to May 1945. It emerged from the war as the highest scoring fighter group in the USAAF.
Another good unit history to add to the mix, I hope you enjoy the book Komet.
If Paul cheated a little, I cheated a lot. I'd planned on reading
, but I've already finished it :). I haven't written up my thoughts yet thoughIt's not technically a unit history, but the editor got a lot of the members of the 95th BG to contribute their stories, not just flight crews, but some of the ground support people also contributed.
My book is FORGOTTEN by Linda Hervieux which is about the 320th Barrage Balloon Battalion, the only black battalion to land on Omaha Beach on D-Day.
Another excellent title for the theme read Betsy!
I'm planning to readSteel Inferno: I SS Panzer Corps in Normandy
as soon as I get my current book wrapped up. If I get the chance, I'll also read
Men of Steel: 1st SS Panzer Corps, 1944-45 - The Ardennes and Eastern Front
.
Another two excellent books for the theme read Jonny!
I never really read this back-to-back, so count me in with: 
Patton's Vanguard: The United States Army Fourth Armored Division byDon M. Fox
KOMET wrote: "Next month, I plan to read "4th Fighter Group - Debden Eagles" by Chris BucholtzThe 4th Fighter Group of th..."
I knew Col. Donald Blakeslee, the CO of the 4th FG, and many of the pilots. Good choice.
Another nice choice Jim, I will look forward to your comments on the book.
Mates and Memories is very much compilation of verbal history of the 2/10 Field Regiment. In the introduction the author Dr Bob Goodwin writes that this is a book to provide family with some record of the regiment during WW2. The author served in the regiment during the war. He was a lieutenant from 1940 to 1945 and prisoner of war on the Burma Thailand railway and at Changi prison. He eventually became a Physician and Cardiologist and received an Order of Australia. The book came about after a suggestion at their 15th reunion in 1994. There is a wealth of photos and drawings through out the book that were supplied by members and family. They really are magnificent and after reading 4 chapters last night found myself looking at them for a little while, a form of reflection I suppose. There are some superb line drawings by Jim French. https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/ART... The author writes that they "......revived poignant memories better than any words could have done". I agree. I have to admit my knowledge of the Malay Peninsular campaigns is only an overview at best from the various books I have read over the years. With that any specific local battles discussed may be known to others but not me. The first couple of chapter covered the forming of the regiment but the first mention of action came in Chapter 3, Mersing - Preparing for Battle. I chuckled at this exchange
Shulte: There is a body of men advancing down the road towards my O Pip. Have I permission to open fire?
Shand: Are they Japs?
Shulte: How would I know. I've never seen Japs before. have I permission to fire?
Shand to passes on the request to Brig. Taylor.
Brig. Taylor to his B.M: Do we have troops north of the Mersing River?
B.M No.
Brig. Taylor: FIRE!
The Nithsdale Estate battle is covered with the 2/10 involved in covering fire and then withdrawing later over the causeway as a rearguard. They regiment received it's first casualty at this time. These events took place in Late January 1942.
That's a great story 4ZZZ, thanks for sharing.There are not that many dedicated books to the Australians in the Malayan campaign but I do have this one yet to read:
Against the Sun: The AIF in Malaya, 1941-42 by Janet UhrPlus this more recent and detailed account (802 pages):
Descent Into Hell - The Fall of Singapore - Pudu and Changi - the Thai Burma Railway by Peter BruneAnd this book on a specific incident during the retreat down the Malay peninsular:
The Bridge at Parit Sulong - an Investigation of Mass Murder Malaya 1942 by Lynette Ramsay Silver
I've changed my mind again, I am thinking of this book for the theme read:
Victory Was Beyond Their Grasp: With the 272nd Volks-Grenadier Division from the Hurtgen Forest to the Heart of the Reich by Douglas E. NashI've just got to finish the book I'm currently reading on WW1 or my book on Clausewitz first before I can start.
The 2/10 saw their next action in the Battle for Singapore. Located on the north west of the island and very much artillery support. At the time of capitulation, 14the February, the losses were 15 killed and 16 wounded. The author writes that "........while seemingly light, are comparable with battle casualties in artillery units in Syria, New Guinea and Borneo over tow to three years." There are then some stark statistics as to the survival of those captured and held in POW camps and work units over the next three and half years. 873 personnel left Australia, 23 left the unit prior to action, 16 killed and 834 as POW's. Until August 20th 1945 of those 834, 270 lost their lives in captivity. Part Two starts with their live under captivity with the regiment all going to Changi. The author has a very interesting discussion on their provisions while in Changi. I always find this an interesting subject and for an excellent book on the subject Lizzy Collinghams The Taste of War is the gold standard. There is coverage of the prisoners life with the AIF parties for entertainment and education facilities among others. Sporting clubs are popular. The author say that the prisoners were far better off in Changi than what was to eventuate in the work parties that went on to work on the Burma Thailand railway. In March 1943 the 2/10 was split up with many of the fittest going to Borneo, Thailand and Japan.
'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I've changed my mind again, I am thinking of this book for the theme read:It is hard to settle on just one...I'm also looking at stories from the other side:
JG26: Top Guns of the Luftwaffe
Soldiers of Destruction: The SS Death's Head Division, 1933-1945
Another two excellent choices Mike! I've got a copy of the first book, unread, and have read the second book which I found quite fascinating. I'll be keen to see which one you go with for the theme.
So many good books!I'm hedging a bit too as I'm almost finished with the story of the 36th infantry Division 141st Combat Regiment 2nd Battalion Company E, a Mexican American unit. Texas/T-patchers division.
Patriots from the Barrio
(I plan to read another too to stay legal)
I've finished the first chapter of "Steel Inferno", which gives a short history of the Liebstandarte from inception through to the formation of the I SS Panzer Corps in the summer of 1943. Pretty interesting, apparently some of the pre-Kursk drafts contained personnel who had originally volunteered for the Luftwaffe. Almost certainly a shock!
Part 3 and Chapter 8 of Mates and Memories covers 219 members of the regiment being sent to Burma in May 42. They were part of a contingent of 3000 POW sent to Burma. They made the journey under horrendous circumstances in a merchant vessel called the Toyohashi Maru. Packed in like sardines the conditions lead to dysentery and the POW’s were brutally punished for the slightest of perceived misdemeanours. Brigadier Varley wrote “So ended a 12 day journey which will always remain vivid in the minds of all who participated, carrying memories of the congestion of men in the holds, diarrhoea and dysentery, coupled with absence of latrines. It rained constantly by day and by night and little sleep was possible” On disembarking a night’s sleep at Tavoy and then a 40 kilometre hike to an unfinished aerodrome. 3 slow months of work and then back to Tavoy and another horrendous boat trip to Moulmain. From Moulmain in open cattle by rail to Thanbyuzayat. The ultimate purpose of the POW’s in Burma was as forced labour for the building of Thai Burma railway to supply Japanese troops. The 2/10 contingent were in a group called Anderson Force that contained 710 POW’s. This force was marched to what was called the 18 kilometre camp, named so as that was the distance from Thanbyuzayat. They were eventually moved to the 26 kilometre camp. During this time the hardships are appalling. Illness and cruelty are the norm.
As Anderson force moved on they eventually ended up at 60 kilometre camp that had been occupied by native coolies. The place was a mess. Dead and dying coolies and cholera. The Japanese themselves were terrified of cholera and cooperated with the POW’s to clean the place up. Camp 60 when abandoned was considered the cleanest of the camps. There is praise for the medical staff as they had to deal with an outbreak of malaria as well. The 70 kilometre camp reverted to kind with outbreaks of not only the previous maladies but beri beri and pellagra. The railway the 2/10 were working on met the other POWs coming from Kanburi on 17th October 1943. The Japanese celebrations were described by Gnr. Dick Gillman of the 2/10 as resembling “…..something of a western movie in the Hollywood tradition.” The survivors of 2/10 eventually ended up in Tamarken “that seemed like heaven” in comparison to the camps. Where the 2/10 survivors go next is related to in the next chapters of this excellent book.
This chapter has 4 appendixes. A covers Medical and Hospital Service in A Force. The 2/10 praise medicos who they owe their lives to. B covers The Lighter Side. Few witty yarns. C is an address Japanese Lt. Col. Yashitada Nagatoma to assembled POWs and D a casualty list of A force buried in Singapore August 44 and recovered after the war.
That was a one fascinating chapter.
I have finished Mates and Memories and it is a very praiseworthy oral history of the 2/10 Field Regiment. The next few chapters cover D Force to Thailand and Hellfire Pass, F Force and H force to Thailand and the long march and B and E Forces to Borneo and the Death March. These chapters are along the same vein as the coverage on chapter 8 in the previous post. As previously mentioned the 2/10 by this time were spread throughout the entire POW network. The Death March from Sandakin to Ranau is worthy of some further information. The author mentions Don Wall's Sandakin The Last March. I see that Rick has read this with out review though gave it 4 stars. The forced march consisted of just over 2,340 British and Australian troops of whom only 6 Australians survived with one of them being a member of the 2/10.
One story that is worth relating is the written family recollections by Gnr. Kitch Loughnan who was on the Rakuyo Maru when sunk by US subs who thought they were attacking Japanese Merchant Vessels as there was no Red Cross identification. I found this for anyone interested. http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Loughnan-12
Another book that gets a mention is that by Hugh V Clarke who wrote the introduction.
A very impressive book that I would imagine would hold pride of place in the families etc of those that served in the 2/10. Credit goes to the author Dr Bob Goodwin who I have discovered is lives in Toowoomba Qld and is still going strong at 95. http://www.thechronicle.com.au/news/t...
I look forward to the companion volume that I will start soon.
Hi 4ZZZ, I'm glad you enjoyed the book "Mates and Memories", it sounds like an important book for not only the families of those who served in the 2/10 Field Regiment but for anyone who has an interest in the Second World War. I read Don Wall's book on Sandakan when it was first published and it was the only book that I had read on that subject at the time, it left a deep impression on me. Since then I have read Paul Ham's more recent and quite detailed book on Sandakan and I would recommend it as well as being worth the time to read.
Sandakan by Paul Ham
FORGOTTEN is a book about two wars, the one we all know about fought in Europe, and the other fought behind the scenes in the States and the Armed Forces. The men of the 320th Barrage Balloon Battalion "won" the first when they did their duty and survived D-Day and its aftermath.Unfortunately, the second war was much more difficult. The racism and prejudices that they faced in training and from some members of the army did not begin or end in 1941-1945. Men like Wilson Monk grew up with it and experienced it most of their lives.
This book does not go into great detail about D-Day unfortunately, but it paints a clear picture of what these men went through in both wars. It is a story of courage and perseverance. The irony is that U.S. citizens should have had to endure such treatment while fighting for the freedom of others.
I've had this on sitting on the shelf for some time and this month seemed to an appropriate time to read it
It's the story of the 2nd SS Panzer DIv in Nomandy.
It's a good book Happy, I think you will find it quite interesting.
I read the first 40 pages and so far it is!
happy wrote: "I've had this on sitting on the shelf for some time and this month seemed to an appropriate time to read it[bookcover:Das Reich: The March of the 2nd SS Panzer Division Through France, June 1944|..."
I read this back in high school. Unfortunately, that was 30+ years ago and I don't remember much detail, but I do recall I thought the book was pretty good. I think this was the first book I read by Max Hastings.
It is one of his early ones. The edition I'm reading has a new preface by Sir Max. He says now that many of those members of the 2nd probably lied to his face, but there is really no documentation to prove or disprove it. He also talks about the differences in how the war was fought between Russia and the West. What the 2nd did in France to civilians was common place is Russia. When he interviewed veterans of the 2nd in the 80's, more than a few couldn't understand the West's reaction to their actions and were unapologetic.
I finished B-17s Over Berlin the end of last month and just got around to typing up my thoughts.It is a series of first hand accounts/memories of members of the 95th BG, one of most highly decorated units in the 8th Bomber Command. As it is mainly first hand accounts, the writing is a little uneven, never-the-less it's a fascinating look at a bomber group at war.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Great review Happy, thanks for sharing, I might have to keep an eye out for a copy.
'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Hi 4ZZZ, I'm glad you enjoyed the book "Mates and Memories", it sounds like an important book for not only the families of those who served in the 2/10 Field Regiment but for anyone who has an inte..."In the companion volume I am up to the chapter on Sandakan right now and this comment caught me, For every 15 POW's who died on the first march 10 Japanese soldiers also died.
Cheers for bringing Hams book to my attention. Now that you have I am convinced I have seen it in either QBD and/or Dymocks and will be grabbing it next time I am there. Will grab Walls if I ever see that around as well.
Finished Medicos and Mates and a useful companion the first book. As the title suggests further recollections from the medical side of the 2/10. Two of chapters were of attention as they were further departed from the main focus of the 1st book. Chapter 12 Nurses had a very readable account of the female nurses trails and tribulation from Sister Flo Syer. This had originally been written for a series called We Were There Too. Chapter 14 Innovations told of that, the medical innovations used by the medicos to replace no longer existent drugs and apparatus. And that's it for me for this read. I look forward to others contributions over the next couple of weeks.
Made it as far as Chapter 6, having covered the organisation, equipment and tactics of the 1st and 12th SS Panzer Divisions. The equipment chapter was a bit of a disappointment - basically everything is terrible, unless it was German. However I now have a good idea of the problems faced by the SS Panzer Corps in being released for action. I'm currently waiting to see what June 7th brings.
Finished reading 4th Fighter Group - Debden Eagles by Chris Bucholtz last night. Feel free to read my review in Goodreads.
As an aside my book is mentioning that TE Lawrence, as a spy, was a 'somewhat pathetic and compulsive liar', has anyone heard that too? Reading Kempai Tai -Japanese Secret Service.
Great accounts everyone, thanks for taking the time to post details on your respective books. I hope to join the them read pretty soon, just got to finish off two other books first.
OK, finally got around to selecting my theme book. I am going to start reading this title today:
Victory Was Beyond Their Grasp: With the 272nd Volks-Grenadier Division from the Hurtgen Forest to the Heart of the Reich by Douglas E. Nash
carl wrote: "Excellent choice AR."I think it should be interesting reading.
In the book I'm currently reading; Victory Was Beyond Their Grasp: With the 272nd Volks-Grenadier Division from the Hurtgen Forest to the Heart of the Reich the author mentions this German artillery tactic, the "roving gun" or Wanderbatterie operations:" ... a diversionary tactic that had proven enormously successful in Normandy and Italy. The roving gun procedure involved the use of a single gun, located at a different firing position from the rest of the battery, to range a target. Once the target was positively identified and ranged, the roving gun ceased firing and transmitted its firing data (range, elevation, and deflection) to the rest of the battery or battalion, which then conducted a rapid Feureuberfall (ambush by fire) that reduced the chances of being hit by Allied counterbattery fire. The roving gun in the meantime moved to a different firing position and began the process all over again."
A bit of interesting information on the Volks-Grenadier Division of late 1944:"In all, three-fourths of the division's transport literally relied upon horsepower to move its stocks of food, ammunition, and other supplies. To move everything, each Volks-Grenadier Division was authorized a total of 426 motor vehicles of all types, 119 motorcycles, and 1,142 horse-drawn wagons and trailers."
THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP
Books mentioned in this topic
Patton's Vanguard: The United States Army Fourth Armored Division (other topics)Revenge of the Red Raiders: The Illustrated History of the 22nd Bombardment Group During World War II (other topics)
Revenge of the Red Raiders: The Illustrated History of the 22nd Bombardment Group During World War II (other topics)
Rocket Fighter (other topics)
Top Secret Bird: The Luftwaffe's Me-163 Comet by Wolfgang Spate (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Wolfgang Späte (other topics)John Stanaway (other topics)
Patrick K. O'Donnell (other topics)
Ian W. Toll (other topics)
James D. Hornfischer (other topics)
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Any book on a unit history of WW2. Happy reading!