World, Writing, Wealth discussion
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No book ads on Goodreads?
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But of course, it bought it a couple or a few years ago
Yeah, we are at Amazon's backyard here.I even had a feeling that some mods in some groups may be on Amazon payroll the way they cared to exalt, eulogize and belaud it -:)
Always. Bezos calls me in the middle of the night when you don't -:)Maybe I was wrong though, because I see now that "Sponsored Books" returned to my screen after a brief absence -:)
I'm actually seeing both kinds on my screen, although they certainly aren't tailored to my tastes.
Yeah, they are here. Haven't seen them for half hour, so thought they might've disappeared for good -:)
I have a "Back to School" Google ad stacked on a sponsored Goodreads Retirement Planning Guide. Awesome.
Nik wrote: "...I even had a feeling that some mods in some groups may be on Amazon payroll the way they cared to exalt, eulogize and belaud it -:)"Literally so. Public job descriptions in public want ads for Amazon trying to hire forum moderators included the ability to stealth seed a discussion with corporate promotional needs. Somewhere buried back in old booklikes posts I had reblogged the links and screenshots.
It's hard to stomach some of the official goodreads posts touting how some -- clearly useful to Amazon needs -- change was one most overwhelmingly requested by goodreads members. Although, I guess some of those have been easier to swallow than when they tout the massive survey responses as being behind a change -- when no one on goodreads seems to have seen or gotten the survey and when asked goodreads has never posted the questions asked.
Mamma Mia, Debbie, I was half joking, but you just corroborate my suspicion! What a phony world we live in sometimes. If true, who cheats whom: those desperate authors who ask their friends to put reviews or Amazon pretending to have bona fide discussions?!
Maybe I also should ask for a check now, every time I mention Amazon in the group? Sort of 0.004$ per instance, like they pay for a page read-:)
I'm not sure ads do any good on GR or anywhere else. Readers talking about books do. Word-of-mouth is still the best advertising, whether it's face-to-face or via the internet.Inre Amazon's nefarious influence: I've ended my exclusivity there and beat my own drum with Smashwords' ads where allowed in discussion groups. Amazon hasn't taken revenge yet. The bots will find me soon enough, I guess.
r/Steve
Hi Steven,Long time, no hear-:)
Sure, nothing beats good word of mouth.
Hope your partial move to Smash won't have any adversary effects
Steven wrote: "I'm not sure ads do any good on GR or anywhere else. Readers talking about books do. Word-of-mouth is still the best advertising, whether it's face-to-face or via the internet.Inre Amazon's nefari..."
The bots will find me soon enough, I guess.
Sounds like something out of The Matrix.
Yeah, and people complain about the NSA? Between Amazon, Apple, Google and all those data-miners (much more giants than dwarfs, and a lot more than seven), your life online is very public. Brave New World + big brother from the corporate world...r/Steve
Word of mouth from friends, followed reviewers and followed authors works. Particularly if a long term relationship where we're familiar with each other's reading tastes.I'm bad about not noticing the big bookcover ads. Not the best discovery tool for me, but bookcovers only make me read the book description sometimes rather than buy the book. I used to checkout interesting sounding books in the smaller ads at right underneath the top shelf (aka what other sites consider "tags" or "keywords") displays until Amazon removed the user-customized shelf names and group shelf names from goodreads book pages. I really miss seeing group shelf names like "series you must start" "our book of the month read" or "xyz group voted top whatever books."
Readers also enjoyed, also bought, similar books, and similar authors sections are good tools for me. I used to love exploring the quirkier individual and group shelf names here on goodreads (Amazon has removed from most main book pages displays with the excuse they were "duplicative"--I still have no idea what they mean by duplicative--and that nbook fell below some threshold). Group challenges/games and polls bring some books to my attention.
A certain algorithm of reviews and ratings over on Amazon.com causes your book to be eligible for visibility in stuff like "readers also" ...
Exploring by genre, new releases by genre and popular by genre finds new books for me. Oddly, few self publishing authors bother putting their books in a genre here on goodreads.*
If I was waiting for a book to release so had that bookcover on my preorder or wishlist shelves, seeing it in an ad about "just released" can remind me to see if preorder downloaded or to go buy it.
Ads interrupting an article I was reading or in newsfeed/dashboard space where I'm trying to read posts from friends or multi-paragraph articles (like goodreads newish sponsored ads on the feed and all those Twitter and Facebook promotions interrupting what used to be social and subscribed to feed items) are outright annoying. Because, duh, I'm trying to read something and catch up with my buddies. I have discovered that when I am able to click some "not interested" option, it just breeds more under the guise of "now we can target you better" (well, in the case of goodreads for some weird reason sometimes means "now that you say you are not interested in this book we'll continuously show it to you plus show it to you every time a friend or followed reviewer/auhtor shelves it as anything even if they shelved it as bloody-hell-this-ad-is-irritating or not-for-me").
I really loathe -- not on topic for goodreads -- ads disguised as block quotes within an article/post. Particulalry if right where you press to scroll down to read more or have "next" icons that seem to indicate clicking will show you more of the article.
*putting your book on a genre means shelving it appropriately. For example, if you write cozy mysteries, shelve that book as things like "cozy mystery" "cozy mysteries" "mystery" ... goodreads crowdsources genre from the shelf names. (Takes just two members, one can be the auhtor, shelving that way.). If not a lot of new releases in that genre the same month your book is releasing, your book might even be emailed to goodreads members subscribing to the new release emails.
Steven, I think we should get used to be starring in one big reality show whether for NSA or corp dudes. No need to tap and wire anything, when you have cool gadgets brought inside the house voluntarily with mikes and cameras. Not that I care too much, I just why we don't charge subscription -:)
Thanks for sharing what works for you and what annoys, Debbie
Nik,Charging a subscription? What a great idea! Unfortunately it's about in the same realm of possibility of having a PR and marketing firm work for you pro bono. Or winning Powerball.
The best we can do is ignore whomever and whatever. I get robocalls, for example, promising me something if I just do a survey...and we're on both state and national do-not-call lists. I'm not talking about my charities either. I hang up as fast as I can.
I'll add to Debbie's woes too. My mouse is hovering on a webpage and suddenly I find myself viewing a video or even another website that I can't get out of. I close the entire browser--consider it a bit like slamming a door in their face. More satisfaction for me than damage to them, of course.
Then there's Microsoft, forcing you to be a beta-tester for Win 10 and then taking over your computer and doing updates (so far, just apps I don't even use, so I have to spend time to get them off).
Somedays you just want to be a hermit off in the Maine woods. But then I couldn't shoot the bull with you guys.
r/Steve
I see mostly book ads. I do notice if an author I've read and enjoyed has a new book out. I recently added on to my TBR. There is so much marketing though that it becomes white noise and pretty darn intrusive. Also some of them are way off the mark, so kind of funny.
M. L.,I was talking about internet ads in general. I've tried book ads on GR and Facebook without much success. Seems like everyone expects freebies these days.
No matter--talking about reading and writing and books and their authors is a lot more fun...and less stressful. ;-)
r/Steve
Maybe people are running less ads here on Goodreads due to the new Giveaways on Amazon? Probably not but just a thought. I find book ads on here to me tedious and confusing but that's just me lol.
Justin,"New giveaways"? Amazon got us (readers and writers) into the habit of giveaways years ago. At first, they were measured in the tens of thousands, now not so much. At first they were considere a good way for authors to achieve name recognition, but no longer. They got readers accustomed to freebies and writers to not valuing their work. Many promo sites won't even consider your ebook if it's not free, even though, like BookBub, they might charge an author hundreds of dollars to put them on the website. Amazon has pretty much single-handedly destroyed the book market for indie writers. They're the Resident Evil--you can't stand them, but you have to do so.
Thanks for the opportunity for some non-productive whining. LOL.
r/Steve
PS. I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but remember the Heinlein aphorism TANSTAAFL in The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress: expecting authors to work their butts off for free will soon ensure there are no more authors!
Steven wrote: "Amazon has pretty much single-handedly destroyed the book market for indie writers. ..."I think it's as legit an opinion as of those glorifying Amazon...
We do have different perspectives here. Michel, for example, publishes all his books for free and accumulated over 100K downloads, while many others are opposed to free books, unless it's for limited marketing purposes...
All free? Hmm that is certainly an interesting approach. You said it though Nik, everyone is different some feed the beast while others have their own method to the madness that is publishing and marketing.
Justin wrote: "Maybe people are running less ads here on Goodreads due to the new Giveaways on Amazon? Probably not but just a thought. I find book ads on here to me tedious and confusing but that's just me lol."A reminder about the recent-ish change to Amazon giveaways in case anyone missed it -- you can now giveaway kindle editions (when launched digital products including kindle books were not eligible). You will have to purchase the kindle edition being given away (but no other charges/fees). Giveaway shows on the Amazon book page and can be easily tweeted and shared on other social media.
The fees to do an official goodreads giveaway of kindle editions here on goodreads include purchase price of the kindle editions, also show on book pages here, and can be tweeted/posted.
Personally, outside of the big-bang visibility options of an Amazon or goodreads giveaway, if I were an auhtor I'd be less inclined to price book free than to make available via KU/KOLL and ARC programs. And more likely to offer a free copy for review/blog-tour. That free-for-review offer isn't going to be seen as much or get as much interest as Amazon/goodreads giveaway, but can only cost emailing an ebook file and at least recipient agreed to review which in turn increases book discoverability. Be cautious of reviewers only wanting hardcopies -- sometimes just a personal preference but sometimes a scam to get something to sell.
Debbie's Spurts (D.A.) wrote: "Justin wrote: "Maybe people are running less ads here on Goodreads due to the new Giveaways on Amazon? Probably not but just a thought. I find book ads on here to me tedious and confusing but that'..."Thanks for the update and clearing this up Debbie. I knew it was something to due with changes and I knew it was with a giveaway or ad.
Debbie and Justin,That is new and different from "giving a book away to the world" on Amazon.
To go along with Debbie's last point, I offer a free ebook in exchange for an honest review and a freebie of your choice as an enticement--any two books in my catalog. That's different than making a book free, even if limited to a number of days.
And, to add to Debbie's warning--don't offer free PDFs. They allow a particularly nefarious form of pirating where an unscrupulous person can edit them (yes, they can be edited!), turned into mobi and ePub files, and sold as his or her own creation. With only the few exceptions noted on my website, I no longer offer free PDFs.
In general, ebooks are electronic files that can be copied, uploaded, and downloaded at will, just like other software, so authors should expect to be pirated if they publish ebooks.
r/Steve
Debbie's Spurts (D.A.) wrote: "Be cautious of reviewers only wanting hardcopies -- sometimes just a personal preference but sometimes a scam to get something to sell. ..."I can second that with my own experience. As a green debut author, I'd sent a couple of paperbacks - one to India, another - to a top-100 Amazon reviewer (at least then), and never gotten any response.
In general, I've noticed the less particular the reviewer is about format or other pre-conditions, the more sincerely s/he's interested in just reading the book and the higher the chances of actually receiving a review. Of course, pls don't assume that anyone requesting a physical copy would never revert back with a review. It may be just my luck -:)
Nik,Bitter LOL? I've never had real bad experiences with print books. Sometimes the review is a wee bit formulaic and I feel they just want new stuff for PLs, but that's OK by me. I love PLs and used book stores as much as anyone.
My real bad experiences have been with ebooks: I estimate a 10% return for review queries there at best, even excluding those reviewers who say, "Send it along. If I like it, I'll review it." That percentage is so low that I don't query anymore. I'll accept queries to review my books, though, because that generally implies a desire to read the book, as you say.
I already mentioned the experiences with PDFs. One author friend commented to me that authors might be surprised by the secret fandom I might have from those pirated versions. I visited one pirate site that allowed comments and noted that some readers commented something like, "How wonderful to read this great book for free." Only problem was, my book was pirated! Discouraging and frustrating....
Author Coelho has argued that pirated books still increase name recognition for the author. A discussion of that might be appropriate for another thread.
I'm sure the vast majority of Goodreads readers do NOT participate in book piracy, by the way. As in the music business, we'll always have a few percent of the reading population who are just jerks. People asking for or agreeing to review books and not reviewing them are in that group, of course...sigh....
r/Steve
Steven wrote: "Nik, Bitter LOL? ......"On the positive side, it helped me to adopt my own free copies policy -:) There are really much more genuinely interested bloggers and reviewers, so very little to lament about -:)
Steven wrote: "Author Coelho has argued that pirated books still increase name recognition for the author. A discussion of that might be appropriate for another thread...."
We have here a somewhat humorous discussion:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...--
Nik,Missed that one. The thread didn't seem to come to a conclusion, though. I think Ian's last comment is a good one, though.
I guess I'd like stats on how prevalent piracy is. If it's rampant, there's an argument for your tactic. But I'd probably just stop writing books and spend more time on my blog. People can reproduce my posts all they want if they give me credit. I guess they could be pirated too, but I don't see the economic benefit.
r/Steve
Fighting piracy makes sense when you have big sales and pirates divert and undermine your market, but as long as the sales are insignificant, pirates' harm is likewise, it seems
Nik,You're right when talking about a few books. Added up over my entire catalog, I'm not so sure. I guess I'll just keep sloggin'... :-(
r/Steve
At my screen I see no book ads anymore, but rather general google stuff.
I guess notoriously unsuccesful book ads on GR gave way to general noise ...
Amazon is monetizing the GR biz, I guess