Science Fiction Microstory Contest discussion
AUGUST 2016 MICROSTORY CONTEST - COMMENTS ONLY
Paula said, Heather, there are more than two attitudes toward critiquing; some may be quite happy to get critiques from people whose literary knowledge they admire.I'm not quite grasping what you're saying there Paula - about "more than two attitudes towards critiquing" ? I wasn't saying that I thought there were just "two attitudes" - on the contrary I am interested in, and hoping to see here a wide range of critiques and critiquing styles ... and how authors being critiqued are able to use any or all of such a range of perspectives.
Jack,I'm laughing and laughing and laughing.
Are you accepting critiques? I did not see a note either way.
A robot walks into a bar indeed! Ping!
Critiques, sure. I don't have a ton of time, so no one should get upset if I don't respond too quickly.
Just posted another critique: this time Justin's "Requiesce in Pace."(I'll make that my last critique for this month. I've done three ... ie I'll stand back so as not to hog the thread.)
I hope more people can do some critiques. Its interesting and helpful to see a range of critiquing methods, and content.
EDIT: I've slightly edited my critique of Justin's story, principally the last paragraph - trying to make what I was trying to say a little clearer.
EDIT again: I've just re-tweaked my critique of "Requiesce in Pace" ... the beginning of the critique, principally (except where I had to squash a few words out for 'word count' reasons.) Again, just trying to make my meaning more exact and clearer.
I just read a quote, from this article, https://www.brainpickings.org/2016/08... by Kafka who apparently said that reading books is "the axe for the frozen sea within us" - what a brilliant way with words he had!It made me wonder whether it might be valid to extrapolate (as I for one think it is!) that statement of kafka's to a point where it makes sense to say that peer-to-peer critiquing (a form of 'mutual help', as distinct from being critiqued by those we feel are, in terms of literary know-how, 'above us', which is also valid in its own right, of course ...) should be seen principally as a type of 'good axe'; a small hand axe or pick, to help us chip, chip, chip a way through the (at least potentially at any time) "frozen sea within us [... specifically, as authors?]" Any thoughts?
[N.B. I hope this is OK to put this here as a possible discussion point ... as it is NOT a spill-over comment from any specific critique in the Critiques thread. It is simply a consideration of the scope of that writing-related tool which is 'peer-to-peer critiquing' in general. eg one such issue within the general scope might be "does it help hone our understanding of perspective? ... and do authors want such honing or are they happy with how they already perceive ... and hence write?"]
I would like to note that Andy did an amazing critique of Justin's story!Well done, both of you!
-C.
I'm very excited to have just found this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiasmus I went googling to see if the radical Symmetry I 'found' (or thought I could see) in one of the story's I critiqued actually was a real thing! Did it actually exist as a standard literary technique or device? And YES IT DID! Wikipedia says moreover it can be found quite commonly in religious texts , such as the Book of Mormon and the Quran.
It is called "chiastic structure" and Wikipedia also says that "complex chiasmi have been found in Shakespeare and the Greek and Hebrew texts of the Bible." It also describes JFK's words, "ask not what your country can do for you but ask what you can do for your country" as "a simple chiasma."
I don't know if the person who wrote the story that I critiqued, that had that 'radical' symmetrical structure to it, did it consciously or not - ie use a very long quote, not as a scene or mood setter, but rather as the opening scene which book-ended the closing scene, giving the story its symmetry ... but that sort of 'experimental' ('experimental' in this contest at least) approach is good to encourage I think. Its good for a writerly mind to be conscious of using it ... and for other writers to see it in action. It reminds me of what Kafka said about having such an "axe to break the frozen ice within" ... so we can expand further as writers.
Andy and Heather,Thanks for the awesome reviews! I appreciate the time you both took to critique my story, and the insights you both provided. I'm a bit pressed for time this evening, but I wanted to at least say thank you! I plan on getting my own reviews and responses up soon.
Kalifer, are you accepting critiques for your story?
Chris, are you accepting critiques for your story?
Justin, in Jot's 'message 41' above, he says "include a mention at the bottom of your story if you choose NOT to have it critiqued" which sounds like it is OK to go ahead and critique as long as the writer hasn't specifically posted a "No" ...But I would like to know, Jot, does that clarification of the rule start THIS month, even though not every writer who has submitted a story this month would have fully known that they had to do that, to specifically opt out?
Another thing I'm not sure of is, is submitting a story a prerequisite to posting a critique in any given month? i.e., it's not necessary to submit a story to be entitled to vote - though a reason for wanting to vote has to be given in that case. Does the same apply to who is permitted to submit critiques?
(I have already done some critiques so I will make sure I get a story in, just in case.)
EDIT: when I post my story - very soon ... I'm just tidying up the expression at present - I WON'T put a "critiques welcome" note on it ... EVEN THOUGH CRITIQUES WILL BE VERY WELCOME for my story. But I'll just do it that way to try to conform to 'the letter of the law! :) of the new guidelines ... with a view to helping get the habit established that "no news is good news!" (for pro-critiques advocates, at least, that is :) lol)
Sounds good. Thanks Heather. I'll critique and if they cry foul I'll delete it.I just want to follow the new guidelines and respect the author's wishes.
Heather,The Critique Police are closely watching your every move. . . Perhaps this is an excellent subject for next month's story!
: )
-C.
@ C ... Ha ha (I hope) That might be why I just posted a story called "Retribution" - just kidding ... at least on this forum, though perhaps not quite so much in Real Life! :)N.B. I deliberately didn't put a "critiques welcome" sign up ... I'm just inconsistent, I guess 'cos they are VERY welcome! (If you see Jot's message 41, it proves I am in fact very consistent - to the point of being boring ... zzzz!) (or should that be 'irritating'! either or or both judgements are ok!)
borritating you are NOT!Ever since you broke up that dog pile on C. Lloyd recently, you are perfect in every way.
; )
-C.
Thanks Paula. Actually - and sorry if this seems to be me being too pedantic - but would you mind if I give my response to your critique over on the Critique thread ... just for consistency (I know I am not always 100% consistent myself! :) So its over there if you want to read it (or will be soon.)
Fine. In fact, I shall delete here and move it over there.Heather wrote: "Thanks Paula. Actually - and sorry if this seems to be me being too pedantic - but would you mind if I give my response to your critique over on the Critique thread ... just for consistency (I know..."
I know my response (to a critique) turned out to be over the 500 word limit ... but I will go in and edit it down and tidy up the expression of it, a bit later this evening. (I want to stay within the rules as I think the Critique thread is going along nicely and don't want to muck it up.)
Paula, I changed the first paragraph and the one starting with "As a mechanic I had of course been hovering protectively ..." as well as the second last paragraph in order to make it a bit clearer 'who's who' ... and what the Humans realize (briefly) at the end of the story. Have the changes worked, do you think? Thanks.EDIT: I've changed the very beginning a bit again ... to try to anchor the story parts in a more identifiable context. I hope that makes it work better (as opposed to over 'solidifying' how the reader should interpret the 'story setting' ... which is the opposite danger to making it 'too ephemeral' which I think it might have been before this latest change I've made.)
@C, I've edited my response/rebuttal to your (much appreciated :) ) critique of my story, "Retribution" - to hopefully make my rationales a bit clearer.EDIT: just found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no85P... on consciousness 'beyond the brain'! [The blurb there says, "Dr. Rupert Sheldrake talking about recent (as of 2008) evidence for his theory of the extended mind. The theory predicts that mind (i.e. consciousness) is a field of influence extending beyond the brain and the body ..."]
EDIT again: this is also very interesting https://www.sophia.org/tutorials/elem... ... talking about different systems of visual perspectives (traditional Western) linear perspective; (traditional Oriental) isometric perspective; and atmospheric perspective. I wonder if in that art form which is 'writing' there are equivalent systems of POV - acknowledged as systems, that is .. Western, Oriental ...? In visual arts (according to that link) an isometric perspective is when an object or scene can be viewed simultaneously from different angles. It reminds me of the exercise - in writing - of trying to use different POV's in the one story!
(I found that last link when googling around to try to decide which visual perspective(s) I want to use in my graphic novelling {or 'sequential art', or 'visual narrative', or even just 'comics'} project(s) ... the name of the field seems to vary!)
I thought it was an interesting 'coincidence' that my experimenting with different POV's in my story, "Retribution", about Consciousness systems that have a certain flexibility, ie, are less foreign to Eastern thought (and apparently quantum physics too!) than to Western thought seems to align with the isometric system of perspective (an Eastern system) that, in the visual arts, is at home with 'different perspectives' ... even though I didn't (consciously) know till just now about that isometric perspective's existence ... at least didn't know it by name or definition! (I have of course seen Eastern art, so maybe its part of the knowledge one absorbs by a sort of osmosis ... or even gnosis?)
Thanks Heather! I bet you've got a great novel there, where you can artfully explain all that stuff to the bone conscienceless and clueless masses!
Mod
Hello Paula,Since you did not request any critiques of Dem Bones, I at least wanted to pay you a compliment for your latest story. Again, from my perspective, you manage to write in a very abstract style and create a fascinating narrative.
Sometimes I find your stories hard to follow because they are so abstract, but that is only because I have a reptilian brain and am missing my sphenoid bone. To me, your style is "up there, untethered" while I feel like mine is clunky and more "traditional." I'm sure this comes from much longer writing experience than mine.
In short, I admire your ability to create such abstract stories. Nice work.
Justin, how thoughtful and kind of you! And remember that many of us very much respect your abilities with those wonderful "traditional" stories you write. . .
Had a fun idea for the contest. Hope you enjoy it!
Justin said to Paula,"you manage to write in a very abstract style and create a fascinating narrative".
Just adding to that sentiment ... this latest story of yours, Paula, put me in mind of this you tube clip called "How English Sounds To Non English Speakers" (alien yet strangely familiar)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt4Df...
There's a poetry involving rhythm, meter, nuance, word-sound ... that evokes a felt meaning - whether or not it is 'an intended meaning' becomes irrelevant. It has a transportive effect, in a James Joyce sort of way. (This is not meant to be a critique ... since you didn't want them. It's just a genuine compliment hitch-hiking on the opening Justin created to give a non-critique appreciation of a style. )
I know this is a little undis-ci-plined (sorry just hav'n a larf) of me to say this here, but Justin, when you said of your story that you "had originally thought about cramming Patton in there too but it felt too forced in doing so." that struck me as hilarious. I was imagining you sitting at your writing desk (with your dog-eared copy of "Winston S. Churchill: Finest Hour, 1939-1941 (Volume VI) sitting there faithfully by your side) trying to find a way to wrangle Mr. Churchill's chunky proportions into the petite apparel size of 750 words ... and then thinking "No, can't be done! ... hmm, I wonder if I can cram Patton in there ... na! still feels a bit forced ..."
p.s. Justin, I'm glad you found my opinion on your story encouraging ... because I think it is a good thing to be experimental in writing. Even if something doesn't work or even if you didn't set out consciously to try a technique but just found, after the fact, that you had used something that wasn't the standard fare, it's good to explore what is and isn't feasible. In your story, your having the courage to stick with something a bit radical did work! You got sphenoidal consciousness! ... in my (not always so humble as it might be) opinion anyway. (I think that that aspect-of-mind that in my story I called sphenoidal consciousness is really not that far from reptilian-mindedness anyway, as in both 'sensing' what it takes to get back to what's true. You seem to me to be good at that. It shows in your writing, at least according to my way of thinking.)
Nice tale, Jon. Old-fashioned shivers. Well done.
Has anyone noticed how nice and business-like it is around here lately? It seems we're all focusing on the new stories and the critiques, and all the self-promotion, sycophantic congratulating, and esoteric analysis has evaporated!. . . well, mostly. Lol
Well done, everyone! It seems we're focusing on helping each other more, and these critiques are awesome. Everyone has put a lot of time and sincere effort into them and it shows.
-C. Lloyd Preville
I noticed that, C - that the critiquing is full of positive energy and focus now that it has a proper 'home of its own' - but was scared to say ... for fear of breaking the spell, but maybe this new energy really is more robust than to be pushed over by a(n esoteric) fear! :)EDIT: and one thing that is particularly interesting to note, C, is that a 'descendant' of your original idea - that there be multiple critiques of the one story, to give us writers a panoramic perspective on the types of responses one story can elicit - has emerged, organically and is finding its own 'shape.' Very heartening to see.
Sorry for the delayed reply, Heather. Yes, good changes; these work well.Heather wrote: "Paula, I changed the first paragraph and the one starting with "As a mechanic I had of course been hovering protectively ..." as well as the second last paragraph in order to make it a bit clearer ..."
So I just posted a critique on everyone's story - in some ways the exercise helps me to focus and really "READ" the story rather than just reading through them.I know it says "Each member can provide at most one critique per story, with a single rebuttal by the author to thank the critic and/or"
But really - no responses are necessary unless you feel the need to explain or answer a question. A "thanks for the critique" reply is not necessary at all to me. :)
Carrie,In that case, thanks for being you. : )
-C.
I really don't mean to start anything, and I don't have a problem necessarily with critiques. But shouldn't critiquing be done AFTER the voting? It seems like things that are pointed out that might be wrong or even constructive criticism could influence how someone votes for a story. It doesn't seem right to critique things before we vote. Just my two cents. I'm Interested in seeing critiques of any story but only after the voting. Otherwise it seems like there are preconceptions other than liking or not liking the story going into the voting process.
Does that make sense?
Jon,Wish I'd thought of that! Lol
Yes, in full agreement. We're trying this out to see what adjustments need to be made per Jot.
-C.
Paula,Intriguing story. Ethereal, intelligent, and with great word play--nicely done! (And this from one who loves Sci-Fi that starts out on a ship's bridge!)
Not a critique, just a compliment.
-C.
Thank you very much, C.---and Justin and Heather. Very much appreciated. Jon, yes---in fact, that was a main impetus for people developing the critiques thread.
Jon said "shouldn't critiquing be done AFTER the voting? It seems like things that are pointed out that might be wrong or even constructive criticism could influence how someone votes for a story. It doesn't seem right to critique things before we vote ... "
critiquing BEFORE the vote, though Jon, provides one fantastic benefit (that a critique AFTER the vote can not): it turns a mere 'contest' into a 'workshop experience' which workshop experience consists of:
* an assigned project for each unique writer to work on (ie their own interpretation of the month's theme); then
* a positive creative exchange phase between writers (the critiquing process); then
* an introspective phase for each unique writer (consolidating the direction of their story &/OR re-appraising and changing it) = an opportunity to mature as artists, to hone our craft; then
* a return to the original project in the form of a show of appreciation (vote) between writers, for not only writing skill but also for the consolidation and/or growth in creative output that 'the workshop' experience fostered.
Yes, the contest started out as a mere contest. But its growing (if we allow it) into something more - as all creative endeavour encourages us to permit!
I don't mind all these things Heather, although that's not my personal impetus for being in the group. I like putting the song out there and seeing how it is received as part of the contest. More for the fun of writing than for the classroom type exercise/discussion/rewrite, etc. (I know that's just introverts like me though ;)But maybe the simple answer (for me) is just to ask for no critiques until after voting. That way it's kind of the best of both worlds. Now, if you are saying we can continually edit our stories before end of voting, then it may be a different proposition, but I don't think that's been allowed and would seem a quite cumbersome process. Not sure I'd ever have the time for that anyway.
Actually Jot did specifically encourage that (editing) if I recall correctly, Jon. Not sure which message number without going back to look for it, but it was in a response to something Carrie said about being concerned that such editing might be 'cheating' (to which Jot said "no it's not cheating, its a good thing to edit" or something like that.)But yes, that's also a good way to use the critiquing thread, the idea you suggested. I for one wouldn't have any issue with 'being aware' that you will welcome a critique after the vote but not before. As C said, all input and ideas are good to put forward. It's good to accommodate everyone's best way to use the contest.
In fact, Jon and Heather, since this contest/group began, 3 or 4 years ago, folks have sometimes edited their piece/s during the voting month; obviously, not everyone will have read the final most well-edited presumably (though not always) best version, that way, but hey . . .Then, the critique thread was originally intended, I believe, so that critiques re the current month's pieces would not act as spoilers (or potential biasers) for, at least, those not reading the critiques thread (but wanting to read other types of comments), and those not wanting critiques of their pieces can opt out of such critiques.
This seems sufficiently complex and, one would hope, sufficient, yes? lol.
Well, I have posted a story. I hope it fits the prompt.
@Carrie,I've re-worked most of the adverbs out of my story. I think it makes it less obscure! ... which is a nice 'side effect' (if it's true that it does do that!) I've also changed the first three paragraphs of my response to your critique over on the Critiques thread to reflect what I learnt about myself and my writing and art generally from your observations (second hand though they may have been :) ... please thank whoever pointed it out to you in the first place, for me! :) Thanks!
Heather,Oh, soooo much better. It's like all the clutter was swept away and now you have a model home that shows beautifully!
By the way, you have "cleavered" in there instead of "cleaved".
Nicety nice nice! : )
C.
Thanks for that affirmation, C and I fixed the mis-pelling of 'cleaved' ... thanks for that too. I think I mustof got carried away visuallizing the cleaving! ... and an extra syllable (or 'sound' ... I don't think it's a whole extra syllable) felt like the cleaving device coming down with an extra bit of thud! :)p.s. I wonder what are the equivalent of adverbs in my real life house-and-life? I'll try and figure it out! I need to de-clutter all round!
Mod
Heather wrote: "I know this is a little undis-ci-plined (sorry just hav'n a larf) of me to say this here, but Justin, when you said of your story that you "had originally thought about cramming Patton in there too..."Dog-eared copy...in my Kindle app on my Windows phone. :) Winston may not have fit here (too distinguished compared to rough-n-ready Patton or Custer) but he'll turn up again in another story I'm sure.
If you've ever seen the Dos Eques commercials for "The Most Interesting Man in the World" I see Churchill in them. :)
I'm quite confident many others know my pain. :)
Paula - I get weird messages on all my other social media platforms it was probably second nature to turn it off on Goodreads!!
Heather & Paula - agreed on both points, I too am curious to see what sorts of things people notice in other folks stories. I think it'll help us keep an eye out for things we might have overlooked too.
:)