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Readalong and Q&A with Andrew Barrett - The Third Rule
I am always interested in how authors begin their books as the beginning will either hook me, or not. Andrew, I like how you told us that for the main character Eddie Collins, these were the "last normal minutes of his life." You already have me wondering.And then you mention the street robbery and the stockbroker who shot/killed 23 people and gave the statistic that gun deaths were up 18%. This also got my attention and , Andrew, this was a good lead-in to the call for a new administration to tackle this escalating problem.
This might be hard to explain, but WHERE does the kernel idea come from for your beginnings, or is it just creative inspiration?
Oh, a favourite book by a favourite author! :)
Kath wrote: "Oh, a favourite book by a favourite author! :)"Echo that :~)
I'll ask some questions once the thread has got running a bit.
Thank you, Janet (and Sean), for the introduction. I feel privileged to be here, and very excited too.Hi Betsy, Kath, and David. It's good to see you all again.
That’s a difficult question to answer fully, Betsy – and what an opener!I’ll try to answer without giving the impression that the book is very political. It isn’t really; it uses politics as a far off background only. There is a politician involved however, and it’s his participation that gives it a political flavour.
The book is all about the reintroduction of the death penalty. But trying to convince readers that the death penalty was the norm, that it was accepted and part of everyday life, seemed like a tall order. Not only that, I wanted people to see how the new government, particularly how the new Justice Minister, came to power – that was very important to me, and would become ever more apparent later in the book.
So I wanted readers to see it become law, so it would be more believable and memorable, and so they could experience its ‘newness’ alongside the characters in the book.
But in order to get a political party with such radical ideas voted into office, I had to create a set of circumstances extreme enough where that might just happen. And so the stockbroker tale was the straw that broke the camel’s back in that respect – the public had had enough of gun crime and would be prepared to vote them into office. Now I could move forward with the story.
I’m a little nervous of explaining Eddie’s first scene for fear of giving away his behaviour in the rest of the book. But it is a great question, and I feel vindicated in moving that scene from something like chapter 30 right to the very front of the book. It’s the crux of him, really, and sets the tone for him right until the final pages. I’m so very glad you picked up on it, Betsy. I’ll let you into the secret that it almost slipped through the net and stayed at chapter 30. And furthermore, during an edit of the book last year, I was going to chop the scene altogether – prepared to tell it rather than show it in order to slim the book down even more.
Kath wrote: "Oh, a favourite book by a favourite author! :)"Very kind of you to say so, Kath :)
David wrote: "Kath wrote: "Oh, a favourite book by a favourite author! :)"Echo that :~)
I'll ask some questions once the thread has got running a bit."
Thank, David. It'll be great to chat with you again!
Andrew, Thank you for the time you take w/ your explanations which make things so much clearer ..... and I'm glad that scene didn't stay at chapter 30 !Talking about Eddie: Eddie was a drunk from the start of the book. IMO, his drinking was not the result of what happened to Sammy which would have been a ligit reason. It also wasn't the result of his work or his split w/ his wife, was it ?
Andrew, was your reasoning that you simply wanted Eddie to be a flawed character and you chose alcohol as his weakness OR
was there some other reason ?
Eddie does have a pretty rough ride, wouldn’t you say, Betsy? I’m not at all kind to him. And that’s good because it forces him to behave naturally. If he doesn’t behave naturally, then the rest of the book teeters on the edge somewhat. I never set out to make him a cuddly character, one that everyone rushes to adore. What I set out to do was watch how he developed and see if people could empathise with him, even through the most fraught of times. And there are more fraught times to come.It seems that in the end people come to understand him, and even like him. That’s good! It worked :)
Anyway, sorry for rambling, his alcohol abuse isn’t caused by the Sammy tragedy, or by splitting up from Jilly. It’s caused by that very first scene, the ending to which you won’t see until much later in the book. Of course the other nasty things happening in his life don’t offer encouragement to stop drinking – quite the opposite really.
It seems you’re making some good progress, Betsy. I hope you’re still enjoying the book, and I look forward to hearing more from you soon :)
You did, Andrew, exactly what you set out to do w/ Eddie. I really came to like him, warts and all. I saw his struggles, his grief and felt his pain.A character, for me , who was despicable from the beginning was Henry Deacon and his actions confirmed that throughout your novel. He (view spoiler) I wondered : how does he not think of witnesses who would identify him and his distinctive car? Do men like Henry just expect a powerful father to take care of everything that he does wrong rather than deal with the embarrassment? What a slimeball! He really had no redeeming characteristics, did he?
Andrew, thanks for discussing your book with us. I'm just starting it, so I'm not reading any of this thread yet. Perhaps tomorrow!
Many thanks, Betsy, for another superb question.You’re right, Henry is despicable. I remember one review said he was ‘a cartoon’ of a character. I’ve met people like him though, and I think they’re one of the scariest people you could meet; aloof and psychotic.
The thought of witnesses did cross his mind – (view spoiler)
But that’s the thing about eye-witness accounts, and maybe it was something Henry was relying on, that they are notoriously unreliable.
Part of his mind-set when committing crimes is that his father would come to the rescue; it’s just the kind of person he grew into – quite sad really, isn’t it. Only this time, he took a few steps too far, and the price is far greater than embarrassment. I really enjoyed writing Henry, particularly later in the book when he’s digging deeper holes to hide his crimes. All I thought of when I wrote him was ‘spoiled brat’.
Redeeming characteristics: (view spoiler) Would you consider that a redeeming characteristic?
I’m very happy that you eventually grew to like Eddie too – he really does mean well in his own twisted kind of way.
Hello, Brenda. I don't blame you for waiting a while, I felt the same when I joined David Staniforth's readalong for Void. Whenever you can join in, you'll be very welcome :)
I don't know if any of you have popped along to the website and had a look in the 'about' section?But in it, I explain that I began writing The Third Rule back in 2004 and didn't finish it until 2012!
When writing it in 2004, I had set it in the near future of 2015 (I even had a calendar where I could plot events), and so included many 'futuristic' elements, including: essential and privileged vehicle users who were tagged electronically as they drove by metering stations. Also, all new cars didn't have rear view mirrors, they had rear view screens.
I also 'invented' the Justice Ministry (Oh yes I did!), and that actually came true. I spent many a happy hour researching how laws are made and studying the interaction between politicians and judges. I also predicted the Queen would die (in 2010, I think it was) and Great Britain wouldn't be selected to host the Olympics in 2012.
Hi there, Andy and everyone else. I'm another person who began by finding Eddie quite an unpleasant character and growing fond of him, after his struggles and, as you said, Andy, his 'meaning well in a twisted way'. He doesn't suffer fools gladly and my goodness, he came up against a few, especially at work! I daren't ask if this is based on your own experience in case colleagues pop in and recognise themselves!
I surprised myself in the later Eddie Collins books by liking the character so much I accused you of being mean to him! Would you say there has to be some tension like this? That if he were a totally lovable character he'd be a bit bland?
Andrew, I find your concept of The Third Rule intriguing and it would certainly appeal to many people who think that criminals sent to prisons get off very well with their prison lifestyle: they are clothed, housed, fed well, have medical care, TV's , drugs, can buy special treatment, have Legal Aid, etc..However, the main purpose of The third Rule, I believe, is that it will act as a deterrent. Andrew, in your long period of research (2004 - 2015 = wow!) and your years working in criminal justice, do you feel that capital punishment DOES act as a deterrent?
And, BTW, you did a super job in the development of Henry Deacon , and I can imagine that he was fun to write!
Kath wrote: "Hi there, Andy and everyone else. I'm another person who began by finding Eddie quite an unpleasant character and growing fond of him, after his struggles and, as you said, Andy, his 'meaning wel..."
Hi Kath, and thanks for the question – another bruiser!
I deliberately set out to make Eddie abrasive, and at the time I didn’t care if people liked him or not. I didn’t see it as my job as a writer to get people to fall in love with him. I saw my job as throwing a set of circumstances at a man and seeing how he dealt with them. His actions, or reactions, would determine if people liked him or not – because it’s the core of a person that shines out in adversity, not the glossy Dulux finish.
I purposely made Eddie rough round the edges. I made him the way I think most people are inside… okay, perhaps not most, but certainly some; I made him react openly the same way I envisage people will react inwardly when faced with a situation. I get him to say all manner of things to his boss, because I bet that’s what most people want from their heroes, even if they’re shy to admit it. And you’re right, Kath, he’s rough too because if he were totally lovable, he’d be boring as hell – he’d be a George Gently who got cross occasionally. I’d rather he was an angry person who felt tremendously strong about injustices, both on a national level, as in The Third Rule, but also right down at a personal level, as he does in Black by Rose.
Betsy wrote: "Andrew, I find your concept of The Third Rule intriguing and it would certainly appeal to many people who think that criminals sent to prisons get off very well with their prison lifestyle: they ar..."Hi Betsy, thank you very much for your compliment about Henry. I like to think that there was a glimmer of hope (view spoiler) and perhaps regretted his actions.
Just to clarify, I began The Third Rule in 2004, and shelved it in 2006/7 for about four years while I wrote some television scripts with a friend from work. I returned to in 2011 and finished her off the next year. The original book was quite a lengthy old tomb at 260k words, which I decided to split into thirds because it was so very long.
Some people liked this idea and others though it was a way for me to make more money out of them by giving them the story in instalments. I never intended this at all, so I brought out the full book to run alongside the three parts – giving people the chance to eat their pie in bite-sized chunks or feast on the fat one. That quietened them down a bit! Ahaha.
And then last year, in October, I decided the book was just too long; some had commented that there were considerable lulls in the tale that detracted from it. I happen to think they were right (now). So I whittled some 80 thousand words from it, tightened it up a lot, and decided that 180k words was okay for one single book this time. So I relaunched it around February. And since then, no one has complained about any such lulls I’m pleased to say.
Anyway, I digress – as often I do, I’m afraid. Does capital punishment act as a deterrent? Yes. And no. It may deter some of the pre-meditated murders, but it will have almost no effect upon spontaneity. (You see, I can be succinct!).
I like when you digress.... I learn more and more about how you write which I find fascinating :)Andrew, I like how you explained , ~16%, Eddie's position on The Third Rule: He said, "I don't agree w/ killing someone. If you live by the gun, you die by the gun. I am in favor of long sentences where prisoners have nothing to look forward to but death." Well said, and I like that position!
However, his good buddy Mick then said, "What if you found the green Jag man; would you still say that ?
You made an interesting point here and made us think =
HOW does one react when it becomes PERSONAL? Would we change our tune when it hits home ??
This made me smile wide, Betsy, because one of the aims for the book was that it should make people think about this. I tried to put forward points for and against capital punishment, and even variations on how it should be carried out, and even who should pull the trigger or flick the switch or administer the drug or pull the lever.I was trying to illustrate how easy it is to occupy the high or popular ground, yet how that opinion might, eventually, conflict with your own reality. Eddie’s point is valid, in that he’d like his son’s killer to languish in jail for years, but later, when faced with the opportunity, he’d much prefer to hand out his own version of punishment on a very personal level – he’d like to pull the trigger. So is he being two-faced or is he just allowed to change his opinion? I don’t know the answer to that one. But as I wrote this part of his character development, I made a conscious effort to put him on the spot and to test his loyalty to his own viewpoint.
How would any of us react when presented with the chance to take retribution?
If you’ve asked yourself this question, and who among us hasn’t at some stage or another, you might find it too differs from your ‘official’ stance when not placed under situational pressure, when safely ensconced in your armchair batting around hypothetical questions of morality.
Wow, that went a bit deep, didn’t it?
I’m interested to hear if you feel this level of exploration is too much for a book, or do you think I didn’t explore it enough? And of course, the question all authors want to know the answer to – do you think it was realistic?
I do think it was realistic, Andy. Our views for the world and our personal views can clash. There's an old saying, 'We are all apt to hear the sermon for the folks in the next pew'. A character I really like was Christian. He was hugely talented, very naive and fiercely loyal. Yet the nature of the person he was loyal to (I don't want to spoil this for anyone else!) meant that he was taken advantage of - but she was a victim too. Such a desperate relationship.
Andrew, You made the situation very REAL when you told us Lincoln Farrier's story about his son who stabbed a burglar, a criminal, but it was Farrier's son who was put into prison and the parole board wouldn't give the son an early release b/c "HE's still a danger to burglars."
This doesn't even compute w/ me : HE, the son, the danger?
Burglars have rights / victims don't ?
You certainly made us question our beliefs and did a great job doing it !!
Kath, I totally agree w/ you re. Christian. To me, Christian Ledger was your most interesting character , Mr. Nobody, who lived in a squat w/ his drug addict girlfriend Alice.Some would say that he was a criminal b/c he robbed from the rich to provide for Alice's "needs" , but the conundrum is =
Does this make Christian a bad man?
As you wrote him, Andrew, did you consider him a bad man?
I believe that you had a soft spot in your heart for Christian :)
Kath wrote: "I do think it was realistic, Andy. Our views for the world and our personal views can clash. There's an old saying, 'We are all apt to hear the sermon for the folks in the next pew'. A character ..."
The thing I liked about Christian and Alice, from a writer's point of view, is that they were free spirits. They had one task to perform (view spoiler) and the rest of the time I could play with them however I liked. But, almost without my knowing, they began to take on other roles which lent credibility to the story even more than they were paid to do. They both became embroiled in further subplots; and I really do like to get the most out of my characters, so was quite delighted when I saw opportunities to engage with them.
Betsy wrote: "Andrew, You made the situation very REAL when you told us Lincoln Farrier's story about his son who stabbed a burglar, a criminal, but it was Farrier's son who was put into prison and the parole bo..."When I began writing The Third Rule, I did lots of research, found myself with quite a healthy file of press cuttings. One that went into the file was, if I recall correctly, from the Daily Mail, the headline was, or included, “still a danger to burglars.” Like you, I reeled at this, but it was true, that’s what a judge had told a man who had attacked a burglar just before he sentenced him. I was astounded, and thought it would make an excellent addition to the book.
Betsy wrote: "Kath, I totally agree w/ you re. Christian. To me, Christian Ledger was your most interesting character , Mr. Nobody, who lived in a squat w/ his drug addict girlfriend Alice.Some would say that..."
For me, Christian was not a bad man. He was a criminal, definitely, but not bad per se. He had his own agenda, and that was to provide for his girlfriend and his art – nothing else mattered to him. So in one respect, he’s just as dedicated as the 9-5 man putting bread on his family’s table, and he was also a hero for risking life and liberty to do it. But there’s no getting away from the fact that he was a criminal, and prepared to injure to get his way.
I did indeed have a soft spot for him. I like creative types, and I loved how he painted (of course I did, I wrote him!), and had a mesmerising time describing his art – really, full-on speed typing, couldn’t get it out of me fast enough. One thing I couldn’t figure out though was his insistence that he stole his consumables. How strange must that sound since I’ve just admitted that I wrote him. It just seemed right for him to be that way inclined, and much as I couldn’t fathom it (why not buy your stuff and not worry about being arrested for it?), I did as requested and wrote it that way.
The scene where he finally confronts Alice, and the resulting incident, were almost three times as long in the original story, but I think it has benefitted from the edit.
Andrew, Speaking of Christian's paintings.... there were maybe 20 of them and they certainly enraptured Alice and the art/antiques shop guy, such a real life quality to his work.Is there really a style of painting Beyond Realism OR is that just what you called Christian's own style?
Do you know much about painting?
BTW, I too thought it strange that Christian would steal his art supplies, as he had money to buy them.
I almost hate to admit that I know nothing at all about art. Everything about his art is completely fabricated, but it cheers me to think there might be such a category, and it also cheers me to realise no one has ever questioned it... yet :)How did you like his artwork, Betsy? Could you 'see' the pictures?
Although the question was aimed at Betsy, I would like to say I could see the pictures. Moreover I loved that aspect of the story. Any chance of a separate story focusing on Christian?
I think there was a sort of hippie belief that owning property was a kind of theft from society - that goods should be communal property. I'm old enough to have been a flower child of the 60s and had no difficulty in believing that Christian would consider his art purer if he hadn't bought the materials. Hadn't sullied it with commerce, you might say.Edited to add - he had no intention of selling the pictures so he didn't gain from the theft.
And yes, I could visualise them!
I absolutely could "see" Christian's paintings as they did seem SO real and one felt this beauty when they were described; it was almost like the paintings were talking directly to you. I have no artistic talent but do appreciate those who do and Christian had it, this amazing talent which could have contributed to his financial independence.I like David's idea of Christian in a separate story as I think that readers relate positively to him , and he would have an interesting story to tell.... post Alice.
Speaking of characters.... one that scared me to the max was Sirius. I'm sure that in your line of work, Andrew, you encounter men like Sirius : those willing to do anything for a powerful boss regardless of what it is. Something must be lacking in these kind of men. Is it a conscience they lack or they see this way as an easy way to earn a lot of money and don't even question the consequences ??
David wrote: "Although the question was aimed at Betsy, I would like to say I could see the pictures. Moreover I loved that aspect of the story. Any chance of a separate story focusing on Christian?"Hi David, I’m so pleased Christian captured so many people; not bad for a throw-away character, really. As I said before, I really enjoyed writing the art descriptions, so much so that I managed to get lost in those pictures as I wrote about them – always a good sign when you disappear from the real world for a while.
I have no plans to write another story about Christian, but since he’s more popular than I ever thought he would be, then I shall bear him in mind if a suitable part comes along in the future.
How did you feel about Alice? Did you feel sorry for her, or just angry?
Kath wrote: "I think there was a sort of hippie belief that owning property was a kind of theft from society - that goods should be communal property. I'm old enough to have been a flower child of the 60s and h..."Ah well, that's so good to hear, Kath! I wonder if I've subconsciously read or heard about that from somewhere, about him wanting his art to be purer? How strange, but how wonderful to hear that you too could visualise them - I'm so happy about that :)
Max turned out to be quite nasty in the end, but do you think it was his love of art that (view spoiler) or just plain old greed?
Betsy wrote: "I absolutely could "see" Christian's paintings as they did seem SO real and one felt this beauty when they were described; it was almost like the paintings were talking directly to you. I have no a..."Well, with so many people saying they could see Christian’s art, then it’s confirmation to me that the descriptions weren’t in vain. In the first edition, there were far more descriptions not only of his art, but of his surroundings too. In fact, there were huge chunks of the relationship between him and Alice.
One reviewer of the first edition said the Christian storyline bored him to tears, and I was very conscious of this when I came to do the big edit last year. I couldn’t eradicate Christian and Alice completely, because they propel several subplots, but I did scrap quite a lot based on that one review.
I'm glad I read the first edition then; just goes to show how different we all are.Alice did invoke some empathy from me, but moreso I appreciated the role she played in allowing you to expand the theme of the novel. The dynamic between the two characters worked really well. I wonder if the fact that they were throwaway characters caused you not to overthink them, therein making them very believable.
Betsy wrote: "Speaking of characters.... one that scared me to the max was Sirius. I'm sure that in your line of work, Andrew, you encounter men like Sirius : those willing to do anything for a powerful boss reg..."Yes, Sirius was supposed to be the grey man, always in the background. But he too grew into something more. In the edit, I tried to shove him back a pace or two out of the spotlight, but he too plays a much larger role than I’d originally anticipated.
I wanted him to remain cool and quiet, a Jason Bourne-esque character if you will, but Henry sucked him into a stunted conversation, and he came to life a little more. Each time he conversed with someone, he grew in my mind. In the end, he was a central character that wanted to succeed not because his boss told him to, and not because of any national or political agenda, but because he hated failure. And I guess everyone can relate to that.
(view spoiler)
David wrote: "I'm glad I read the first edition then; just goes to show how different we all are.Alice did invoke some empathy from me, but moreso I appreciated the role she played in allowing you to expand th..."
Thanks for that, David
If I’m brutally honest, I do think the first edition was a little repetitive in places, and maybe a little dull, going over the same emotions several times. But I’ve done the edit (big gulp, hold back the tears, and cut cut cut) and I think overall the book has benefitted from it; the story is so much sharper.
I’m glad to hear you empathised with Alice. She only wanted freedom and a better life, something everyone strives for; it’s just a shame she chose an underhand way to go about it. And she was suffering mentally too; (view spoiler) and I wonder if it was this pressure that caused her to feel Christian was controlling her and manipulating her, keeping her captive.
They did bounce off each other quite well, but I think that’s because Christian was so laid back that he could accommodate her eccentricities and needs. Thank you for saying they were believable – coming from someone who wrote a very deep character in Tom, and another in Keith, I take that as a high compliment!
You asked how we felt about Alice: I thought that she was a pathetic character in so many ways. First, her strong dependence on drugs dominated her actions with which I disagreed. I do understand that she was tired of living like a tramp and wanted a better life. When she discovered Christian's paintings whose value was validated by Max , she saw only her ticket out of her present misery; she "knew" what she was doing w/ Max was wrong but she betrayed Christian and, for me, this was hard to forgive as he had always been good to her. I did think that she was pretty savvy when negotiating w/ Max, and that surprised me.SPOILERS below....
But, boy, Andrew, did you have me fooled re. Alice's "baby", Spenser !!! I bought right into, "Spenser crying for breakfast...." and "Alice paid no attention to Spenser's needs." When this was all revealed, I said, "WOW!" I never saw that coming. SPOILER.... And Christian bought into it too b/c , after her miscarriage, he supplied the plastic doll and batteries. And, that was when she went a tad crazy.
The only part that sent out an alarm to me was when SPOILER Christian smashed Spenser's skull to pieces.; Christian would not have done that to a real child.
That whole Alice/ Christian scene, IMO, was one of your BEST !
Betsy wrote: "You asked how we felt about Alice: I thought that she was a pathetic character in so many ways. First, her strong dependence on drugs dominated her actions with which I disagreed. I do understand t..."Thanks very much, Betsy, that’s very kind of you to say so. This newer version of The Third Rule is a little slimmer as I’ve said before, and the whole Christian/Alice thing took quite a hit in the recent edit. In the first edition we had Alice’s conscience following her around, arguing with her betrayal, trying to persuade her to be more honest.
I have no idea why, but the voice of her conscience wasn’t her own voice at all – it was a black lady’s voice, pretty much like the one you’d hear in the old cartoons from years ago. I enjoyed writing in that voice; it was kind of comforting to hear her in my own mind. Here are a few lines to illustrate what I mean:
“It does?” Baroque? Isn’t that what Christian said it was?
Oh yes, he did, girl. And you know, he also said he loved you and he said he cared for you, and what you gonna do for him in return, huh? You gonna sell his work, huh? You gonna stab him right between the shoulder blades.
I am not!
Really? How much thought you given to handing the cash over to him, eh? How many times have you told him in your imagination that you found him a buyer and by Christmas you’ll be in an apartment where he can paint in comfort? None, right. You outta your mind, girl. You a traitor.
“It does indeed.” He looked up, Alice blinked and stepped back. “It has a clever play with light.”
I took it out to save space, and the few comments I left behind were in Alice’s own voice, just her own thoughts.
And another change I made from the original book – the original original, I mean – is that I changed the (view spoiler) I opted for an alternative that would illustrate Alice’s disturbed mental state very well indeed. A few tweaks later, and we had Spencer ;)
And, strange as this might seem, we also had a way to show how selfish she was, neglecting a baby like she did in order to score, without actually harming a child. Hehe…
How interesting that Alice's conscience , in the first go round, was that of a black woman; that would have made for some good reading but.... I still like the new/improved version; as I said, I loved your Alice/Christian scene! I still think about it.Jilly is another of your female characters whom I found pathetic, like Alice, even considering her tragic circumstances. Jilly is not coping well, her grief is growing worse and she goes to see a psychic telling Eddie that he "knew" all kinds of things about Sammy. She wants Eddie's support, but he tells her it is all a con and she is enraged at him.
I would have agreed w/ Eddie, Andrew, until you did something VERY clever: When Eddie goes w/ Jilly, the psychic tells Eddie how much Sammy likes his baseball cap on the mantle (pretty specific/ not in papers) and when Eddie denounces the man as a quack, the psychic's parting shot was, " Do you know a man named Stuart? Watch your back."
Andrew, do you want us to believe the psychic?
Do you believe in psychics?
Thank you for sharing The Third Rule. Just started reading two days ago, so not too far into the plot yet. So far, I'm not sure how the pieces will fit together--so I'm just skimming the comments above and will join the discussion shortly.
Read quickly, Dave, read quickly :) Can't wait to hear your thoughts on this interesting book.
Betsy wrote: "How interesting that Alice's conscience , in the first go round, was that of a black woman; that would have made for some good reading but.... I still like the new/improved version; as I said, I lo..."Ah Betsy, you spotted that, did you!
Prior to publication, I had a good long chat about this very topic with a good friend of mine – someone far more intelligent than I. After the chat I decided that as an author I was not responsible for what the reader should or shouldn’t believe in; I neither ask the reader to believe nor dissuade them – I merely report the facts ;) I realise how ridiculous that sounds.
I have indeed visited these people before now (in the company of others, I hasten to add), and I’ve been quite surprised by some of the specific things they report. So I went with it, and I threw the spanner in the works (as they did to me), and I still leave it to the reader to determine if they believe it or not. Either way, it certainly made Eddie sit up and take notice, didn’t it?
But as I say, it did happen to me, and like Eddie, I think I’d prefer to believe they were mind-reading rather than able to converse with the dead. It certainly doesn’t make me believe in psychics, but it does tend to colour my open-mindedness ;)
As to your question ‘do you want us to believe the psychic?’ (view spoiler)
Dave wrote: "Thank you for sharing The Third Rule. Just started reading two days ago, so not too far into the plot yet. So far, I'm not sure how the pieces will fit together--so I'm just skimming the comments a..."Hello, Dave! It'll be great to have your input when you feel you can. I realise the pieces seem disparate just now, but give it time, and you'll find they all fit nicely together.
I like, Andrew, how you give your readers the information, the options, and we are free to go with what we believe. That scene (re. Stuart) does get one's attention! Another good piece of writing !Mick is a character I really like, even though he too is a disgusting drunk but.... when we find out what happened in his life that started/ continued this drunkenness,
Do you feel differently about him ?
Is his drunken behavior OK now that we know his reason?
Andrew, you did such a good job w/ your characterization, IMO.
Betsy wrote: "I like, Andrew, how you give your readers the information, the options, and we are free to go with what we believe. That scene (re. Stuart) does get one's attention! Another good piece of writing !..."That scene with the psychic was quite an intensive one to write, and, forgive the immodesty here, I remember having a little tear in my eye when Eddie was in the car park being comforted by Jilly. I really felt for the guy there.
Thank you, Betsy. It’s really encouraging to know the characters, even though they’re disgusting sometimes, sound plausible to you. I worked hard on them, and tried my best to make them sound as individual as possible. Dialogue for Mick was a treat, one of my favourite parts to write was the conversation between Mick and Henry. Mick’s quite close to Eddie as far as writing his dialogue goes, but there are subtle and significant differences that I hope enables the reader to tell who’s talking at any one time without the constant use of character tags.
(view spoiler)
Does that make his drunken behaviour okay? No, he’s still a lousy drunk, but I like to think he has his redeeming features. Despite leeching Eddie for inside information, he genuinely wants to help him, and he genuinely wants to see justice befall the Justice Ministry – at any cost. Gotta love the man for that, right? And I think he’s not a bad drunk. Some people become violent or aggressive, he becomes funny, sarcastic (like Eddie), and even a little more eloquent, wouldn’t you say?
I’m not sure how far into the book you’ve read, Betsy, but what would you say your favourite part has been so far? What did you think of the classroom scene? And, if I’m willing to ask about your favourite part, I should be willing to ask what your least favourite was.
Andrew, I have finished your wonderfully written book and I had many favorite parts: Since I loved both Eddie and Mick, when they were together, usually drunk, their banter back and forth between them was SO funny! "Why can't you take up chess for a hobby instead of drinking and seeing how far you can throw up?" "Tomorrow night you could visit Brandypuke Farm and your old friends, Guilt and Hatred." To me, that humor, which you did so well, was necessary, as it broke up some of the tension.I liked all the scenes that seemed real to me; I will only mention one: Jilly, was not one of my favorite characters, but a scene that you did especially well b/c it felt so real, was when Jilly/Eddie went back to her house after seeing the psychic. Jilly wanted him back, "I think we need each other and you're trying to be good again." Eddie's wish finally was coming true, but he just didn't trust it and said that he would think it over. You made it real to me b/c Eddie didn't just jump back; to me, that would have been out-of-character and would have ruined everything.
Just b/c you asked: I must say that from ~ 80% on, I lost interest as I felt I knew how it would all resolve and it was a rehash of everything we knew that had gone before. Looking for Henry's secret just didn't do it for me either, and I didn't think that the final scene between Eddie and Sirius seemed like much of a fight to the finish ; these are my reasons for a 4 rather than a 5 star review. But, I have recommended your book to others b/c it is well written and you are a helluva writer !!
A Good Thriller
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Happy reading!