Science Fiction Microstory Contest discussion
***JUNE 2016 MICRO STORY CONTEST - COMMENTS ONLY
message 151:
by
Andy
(new)
Jun 21, 2016 08:04AM
What can I say, Richard? I really try to be a totally heartless bastard. I feel I'm consistent in my curmudgeonly takedowns of pretty much every story and comment here, and , Lord knows, after well over three years in these damn contests, I still can't seem to offend everyone each and every month. It's hard and I have a raft of other abuses I have to work through in my "real" life. Well, I do what I can in that regard, which is more than I can say for some other people here that I shan't name, although you and I both know who they are.
reply
|
flag
Heather wrote: "@ Justin,I thought it was interesting that had Churchill been killed in WWI, as in your story, BUT Welchman, from Bletchley Park Hut 6, in WWII somehow still was doing his WWII work ... but had a ..."
Hi Heather! I've just come to the part in this massive Churchill biopic I'm reading where he came down with acute appendicitis just prior to the 1922 election. Due to his illness he was unable to campaign and thus found himself out of office the first time in 22 years. Imagine if he had died then! As Churchill himself wrote in "The World Crisis," " The terrible ifs accumulate."
Richard wrote: "I got rid of the story that had the least of the required elements- and it did distort time (sci-fi) rather than reorganise it (alternative history)AND- we are only allowed one story.
There are h..."
Hi Richard and all,
I'm happy to provide copies of my two sci-fi novellas as prizes to any winners that may want them in the months ahead. I certainly won't force anyone to take them!
Karl - Mexican Standoff was hilarious, and a nice counter to all the anti-immigrant stuff in the news these days.Jot - Temporal Library was also very funny and reaffirms the interest in the train wreck known as Donald Trump. It also reminded me of your "dream pillow" story. Your sales people are skilled at separating people from their money!
Jon - Jesus Wept - I loved how you meshed religion and sci-fi. A fascinating premise.
Dorthe - An interesting change to Roman history! Yet some things remain the same even in the alternate timeline. I almost thought it was taking place in the future until I got further in the story.
Gary - The science in your science fiction is above my reptilian brain! I liked it!
I've really enjoyed reading everyone's stories this month. A great variety of historical periods, people and places.
@ Dorthe and RichardAha! Now that it's been mentioned I do recall seeing early on that Richard had posted two stories ... but then I forgot it. I had thought that it was my 'thinking about life and death a lot lately' that had suddenly slotted me into the ominous "message 13" position! :-)
@ Andy G
Well, someone's gotta do the bad ass work! It's 'very nice' of you to have volunteered where others won't! :-)
Well, @@RIchard & Andy G - I think we could make the world a better place if we were all always nice to each other. Then we could make alternative history, not only write it.>group hug<
:-)
(Overcoming evil, one smile at a time ..)
Richard?... Richard?
Oh, sounds like he's calling for Hughie through the porcelain telephone ...
Is porcelain telephone a posh person's commode? Guess it has to be.'Sounds' like an Imperial Westminster Pan with High Level Cistern.
Justin wrote "... I've just come to the part in this massive Churchill biopic I'm reading where ... Imagine if he had died then! As Churchill himself wrote in "The World Crisis," " The terrible ifs accumulate."" Life is a knife edge - that's what I've learned.
Sometimes it feels pleasantly blunted out and you can dance on it and sometimes it is pretty and shiny and you can forget the hard edges but then it can be serrated or rusty and jagged ... all of a sudden, like a hologram changing ... sometimes you can polish like mad and change the edge ... except if "the terrible ifs" have just accumulated too fast and furious for you.
A degree of patience and an acceptance of the never-ending decision-making life's edge demands is key to not being too freaked out by it all and maybe of even learning something of whatever it is we are here to learn ... I think.
Speaking of which, the book I ordered "The Weekend Novelist Writes a Mystery" finally arrived and now I am looking forward to working through 'the decisions' within the guidance of the book to try to complete a mystery novel in 52 weekends! I'm going to use my story in the contest this month, "White Rabbit Down" and try to expand it into a mystery novel. The subject(s) of the story fascinate me greatly ... plus I'd like the new-for-me experience of actually having a (trusted) learning structure, but one within which to let my own imagination have some breathing space, so I think I'm really going to enjoy this.
Weekends 1-4 are for: 'Character Work' (killer, victim, sleuth, catalyst)
Weekends 5-9 are for: 'Plotting' (back story, key scenes, plot diagram, subplots, the working synopsis)
Weekends 10-13 are for: 'Scene Building' (crime scene, dialogue, action, setting)
Weekends 14-25 are for: 'First Draft' (writing Act One, writing Act Two, writing Act Three)
Weekends 26-38 are for: 'Second Draft' (rewriting Act One, rewriting Act Two, rewriting Act Three)
Weekends 39-52 are for: 'Final Draft'
EDIT: I just realized something - on beginning to read the Introduction to "The Weekend Novelist Writes A Mystery", about what the attraction of Mystery writing is for me! The intro says,
"The world of mystery writing is a vibrant and exciting place ... in simplest terms the object of the quest is payment ... the quester who brings home the grail ... on the other side of the equation, the evil dragon ... must pay ... in dragon's blood ... Where is the end to this awful ripping and tearing? How do we stop it? Who is responsible here?"
I think that's what I'm after: the antidote to the perpetual patience required to live on the knife's edge that is (too often) life! A way to ... just sometimes ... jump off and wield that edgy knife (metaphorically speaking) to exact payment, for wrongs done ... to put things right, to make life, ironically, less knife-edgy, more peaceful! Oh well, in my dreams ... or mystery novels to be!
Once you get into it, I'm sure you won't be able to wait for the weekend, Heather :-)
I'm shocked that you would let those people tell you what to do, Heather. Writers aren't robots- not quite yet anyway.
Richard, I'm just regarding it as 'the teachers I never really had'. Most people seem to have gone to school everyday and allowed themselves to be subjected to 'learning'. I just generally resisted structured learning. I could pass exams well enough to not be noticed and putting in an appearance at Assembly when the class role would be read was all that was needed to satisfy the slack powers-that-beed, back in the day!
So, the 'structured learning' thing now, for me, is just a trying out of something: like trying out various styles of writing or trying out some literary device ... an exercise! I feel like its going to be good fun, not robotic at all ... not unlike our monthly SF contest themes, where restrictions and constraints don't actually curtail creativity, but enhance it ... or can do!
**JOKE**But gads- you must've had a crap education.
I wondered if it was a joke but wasn't sure ... and since I'm not really in a joking mood I went with the 'alternative' :-) interpretation. Well it is the month for alternatives ... but yes if there was a bad teacher within calling distance I seemed to get landed with them!Just one example was a science teacher who was Laziness personified and who was always thinking up ways to get out of teaching and he would often start a lesson and then say "look I'll be back in a minute, I just need to go and check on something or other" ... and it was known he'd go down to the staff room and be sitting there having a cup of tea and stuffing his face ... and maybe or maybe not come back at the very end of the 'lesson.'
One time he decided to mix it up a bit and get the pupils to give presentations/lessons. The very first pupil to start this activity simply got up, introduced the lesson then said "look I'll be back in a minute I just need to go and do such an such ..." He simply didn't come back till the very end of the lesson period!
Then when there would be an interested teacher I get remarks like "who did you get to write this for you? the writing style is too complex for someone your age!" or 'whoever wrote this is highly intelligent and we don't think that's you!"
So I had those two extremes ... I think the second lot were the worse in so far as being demoralizing.
And then there was the occasional good and interested teacher. One was the Head of the maths department at a college (after my official school days) where I took a part time course and my tutor had spoken to the Head about my maths-thinking. I was called to go and see the Head of the Maths Department who said to me "you think like a mathematician, why haven't you done anything with it till now? You should go on with it!" But I didn't go on with it ... for one reason and another. But I remember thinking "how nice of him to say so in such a straight forward way." But now I want to channel my interest in maths and physics ... and in psychological and creative healing generally - not to mention my interest in striking back at dickheads of all varieties - in my writing ... and preferably within a light, vibrant genre (eg mystery sf) framework, within which to then quietly and subtly (also) explore 'the deeper stuff.' That's the plan. No joke! :-)
Justin, thank you for the comment.I have been noticing all the wield science that keeps getting reported over the years. It is almost as if the designers of our matrix/hologram world are getting bored and throwing in more unlikely occurrences. Lets hope they get so bored that they just set it aside and ignore us again for a few years. Before they decide a zombie apocalypse or super volcano might be entertaining. Or just tear it all down and start over with a Lego universe.
Gary- We already have Legoland, and with land one is well started on building a univercity, and from there there no stopping building a whole new universe.
"Well kids, this Lego block implements the Strong Nuclear Force..."
A quick note, Heather--if you were let alone by the admins and were allowed to pass through grade school etc. without having to actually attend through the boredom and conformity attempts upon one, your school must have been quite *good.* Otoh, those teacher remarks certainly sound to have made up for it; of course they wouldn't want anyone to slip through the cookie-cuttering. :)Justin, how are those who never get selected for a "win" here to get any of your novel(la)s? And you know, of course, we all want to read one another's work.
Adding to Paula's good sense with stuff, arguably- Justin, we who never win need to read your quality work more than any winner does. All my books are almost always free to anyone whom asks. I think it's whom, though I tend to rely on editors to check my grammar in actual books. Normally I'd cop out by using 'that', despite the fact that that is rather overused. It is isn't it -but not half as much as 'it'.
I'm quite happy to make a twit of myself over grammar. Just as well, init.
What a struggle to get mine to 750 word limit. I think you all will enjoy "Montezuma Remix" I certainly enjoyed writing it. It plays into one of my pet fantasies of going back in history and foiling Cortez.For those that don't read Spanish "monster desatado" is "monster unleashed"
(whoops, Kalifer I accidentally posted this comment in the stories thread under your story after i read it ... so I deleted the comment and am reposting it here where its meant to be.) So ...Kalifer,
is the moral of the story, that,
trying to convince 'someone else' that 'your enemy' is 'their enemy' ... and therefore that you and they are 'friends' and should take 'jointly engineered revenge' ... can turn out badly and of itself produce a Monstruo desatado! ?
The explosive revenge so to speak seems to be never ending as this is what turns up when you google "Montezuma's revenge" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travele...
And is Tom Silva the Tom Silva from "This Old House" (I've never seen the program just read that it is a 'house renovation' TV program)
I saw this quote on one of the sites I looked at while trying to understand the context of your story:
"...Then [Cortez] said to Montezuma: "We have come to your house in Mexico as friends. There is nothing to fear."
An interesting, thought-provoking - even darkly humourous - story, Kalifer and also particularly interesting as an example of when antagonists and protagonists don't always fall into neatly defined characters: sometimes the antagonist, for example, is more just the status quo, the prevailing social mores, or, a confused protagonist/antagonist character-state like the enemy of my enemy ...
Yes Paula, there's always a complexity with everything and a simplicity on the other side of that same coin. In my school days there were not the restrictions - other than the status quo, a sense of convention and 'wanting to be cookie-cuttered' (that most students clearly had) - to keep pupils 'in line,' that students seem to be subjected to/privileged to be a part of, today ... with endless assignments and homework and structured activities. (It's as if The System has looked at the Radicals that that free-er system let slip through and put its foot down and said "This won't do!")
When I was at school, although there was homework, it made no difference to passing through the grades. That was entirely determined by an end of year exam, that could be easily crammed for, I found, over a few weeks towards the end of the year. That would have been ideal for me as it meant theoretically being left alone to study on my own, what I wanted to study ... but in practice there were other intrusions that hampered that.
In a sense, I am sort of grateful now for all the weirdness back then ... IF and as long as my health doesn't start acting like some weird obstructive influence (as it has threatened to do lately, but I think I'm now on the right track towards getting that sorted) ... Given sufficient time and health, I can now be free to resume, after a lifetime's break from it, my own 'exploration of what interests me.' But there's no longer any chance of that other than in the 'Writing World' as opposed to 'the Real World!' ... but that's more than OK with me because all the weird stuff of the past (especially where the same patterns of weirdness can still be seen, in albeit different form, today) is now Food For Thought to nurture my hungry mind ... and see what 'recipes' I can come up with out of all that. It's a potential opportunity for great fun and interest ... and 'revenge?', 'restoration-of-a-creative-order?', 'setting things right?' (I'm not 100% sure what that other factor, that I am chasing through writing, is called) for me now.
I recently saw a Leo Tolstoy quote "the two greatest warriors are Patience and Time"
For awhile I was happy to find I could get free ebooks from amazon, just sort the genre that interested me by price low to high and I got a list of books that were kindle books that were free. But for the most part they were first books in a series, they were trying to get us hooked so we would buy the rest of the series. Even then most of the authors were only so so, don't miss understand me I will read cereal boxes if nothing else is around, so these are well worth twice the price (free).Recently I found I can get 1st rate ebooks and audiobooks through my local library online. Of course I had to have a library card but hey I already had one. https://www.more.lib.wi.us/ this is the link to the Wisconsin public library site, you likely have something similar in your area. I have a couple different ebook readers like kindle, overdrive, epub, etc... they were all free to download. So I don't have a problem being able to read any format of ebook. I hope this helps any of you that can not afford to read as much as you want, at least until to find authors you like.
Gary wrote: "Justin, thank you for the comment.I have been noticing all the wield science that keeps getting reported over the years. It is almost as if the designers of our matrix/hologram world are getting b..."
Nothing wrong with playing with Legos. I still enjoy them with my kids, although I hate stepping on them in the dark!
I like the hard science of your sci-fi, even if I don't understand it all. It stands in contrast to some writers who play fast and loose with the laws of physics - usually out of necessity.
Kalifer wrote: "What a struggle to get mine to 750 word limit. I think you all will enjoy "Montezuma Remix" I certainly enjoyed writing it. It plays into one of my pet fantasies of going back in history and foilin..."A great read Kalifer! I got a good laugh (perhaps inappropriately so) when the poor solider was blown to tiny bits. I also had a hard time scaling my story back. I wanted to add so many details about Churchill, etc. I think I was over 1,000 words and I had to keep chopping and chopping and chopping...but, it does make you keep it sharp and lean. Good work!
Hi Paula and Richard,I'm wrestling with your request only because I was trying to give something a little extra to this month's winner.
However, if anyone in this group is interested in reading my whopping two self-published novellas, I'm happy to gift it to them via Amazon for those stateside or a PDF for the rest of the world. I'll just need an email address.
I would just ask anyone who reads them to publish a review on Goodreads and/or Amazon or other social media. Constructive criticism is appreciated.
This is a brutal month for voting. As Richard and others have stated, there are no clunkers this month, and a very large number of extremely well-researched and imaginative alternate histories. I have always had two polar opposite ideals for the votes in this contest. The first is that everyone votes for the same story. The second is that every story gets one vote. I think this month has at least a chance at my second ideal outcome. I hope so anyway.
It could have been even more interesting if Andy Lake had kept his second story #16 Sufferage, although I also had his other one as my #4 choice.
Paula,I'm now about 3/4 way through Connie Willis' book "Passage" (after you mentioned it here) and I'm having to stop and have a break from it for my sanity's sake. It became emotionally draining ... and yet having temporarily 'broken away from it' I now find myself appreciating her style even more.
Its as if the whole book, in itself, plays the role of 'the metaphor.' (The characters in the book think that the NDE's are a metaphor for Death itself ... a clue from Willis?) The book itself, it seems to me, is a metaphor for the never ending internal conversation that goes on within one's own mind: a conversation that's emotional, searching, funny, sad, hopeful, frustrating, despairing, resigned ... everything ... and then finally sometimes just too much to keep on with and so has to be left alone while one goes and does some lighter type of in-life activity ... whilst still having had 'the benefit'/ the roundedness of being 'closer to death,' at book-metaphor level. Its made me more tolerant of my lack of understanding of things ... injustices especially ... that I am forever trying to make sense of and square away, within my internal conversations.
That all added up, for me, to the book itself being cathartic! But I only realized that after leaving it alone for a while. That's not to say that I'll leave off my 'searchings' ... but the book, "Passage," has, so far, made me more inclined to include (perhaps ironically) a more prayer-like, meditative, somewhat-accepting attitude to those lines between states-of-being/realities/individuals we have known, that we have to wait around for, before we too can cross over those lines ... and relate to/understand (something/someone, ... but anew, hopefully!)
(I feel this especially acutely since my mother's death. Despite some significant differences of opinion that we had throughout the years, the one thing that 'eternally kept us on track,' through thick and thin was, as Mum used to say "we understand each other." I felt as if I could be her and she could be me and she seemed to feel the same, {despite the fact that we were also very different in some key ways.} But now I just can't 'understand' what she/her soul/her spirit 'is' understanding/is experiencing ... if anything, and I really grieve for 'that loss', as well as 'just' loss of Mum, and 'what to do' with my empathy with her for her loss, of life.)
(I think Willis is a brave artist ... doing what artists are truly meant to do: just point to 'a truth' ... as they see it with their sharp-eye ... that we may or may not then look at.)
EDIT: coincidentally there is a topical article here, on that very subject of the inner conversation: http://www.abc.net.au/news/health/inn...
Heather, it is a magnificent book, is it not? I too think it has profundity--but let's wait until you've finished it before we discuss it; I will say this, that to me the crux of it seems to be in the point intended by its last few lines (and how that relates, or is, or comes from, its general point re NDEs and metaphor). Anyhow, enjoy! . . . Oh, and agreed that Willis is bravely doing what truth in art requires of us and yet many writers/artists avoid. But has that avoidance cause? Oh wow, check that ending.* * *
Andy, yes--again, and even more than on those other occasions, voting to reach a single "winner" among this bunch of mostly winning-quality stories is (near)-impossible. I'm lost among 4 or 5 that seem exceptionally best of these; winner's likely to be the one that, along with everything else, grabs my heartstrings. But the everything elses are so strong, too, this time.
So, Andy, JJ, et al.Wow! 4 British Isles teams in the knockout round. Good to have some exciting news to enliven an otherwise dull news day.
Can anyone throw any light on the Brexit? Its been on the news all day with everyone saying conflicting things ... except when asked "who do you think/hope will be the next P.M.?" no-one wants to guess or hope!
And now, just to add some icing to the top of the, very confusing, cake Donald Trump rocks up in Scotland saying "what a great day that Brexit has happened ... it just proves Americans will also want to be rebelliously nationalistic and 'vote Trump!'" ... BUT, he said that on 'Scottish soil' where people DIDN'T want to be part of Brexit at all!
I'd just like things to make sense somewhere/anywhere in the world ... for once!
Here's what I've read so far:- David Cameron will quit by October. There won't be a general election though. Instead, the next PM will be chosen by the Conservative Party (small number of paid members, who knows what the result will be).
- The next PM doesn't have a set timetable to announce when the exit process will begin. Once the official announcement happens, they have 2 years to conclude negotiations.
- It looks like there will be another Scottish independence vote as soon as the Brexit process begins.
- There's a good chance this has an effect on the upcoming Spanish elections, and could trigger other EU exits (each with their own 2 year timetable).
Economically and politically, this probably will take between 5 and 10 years to sort out, and will likely cause an extended negative effect on the global economy (how big that will be, nobody knows).
And Trump continues to not know what he's talking about.
Thanks Jeremy, but there seems to be a lot of jockeying for position happening that makes it hard to get a handle on what's really at stake and what is hot air - going by the interviews they're showing on the T.V. and it makes it all seem uncertain. For example, take that point about there being two years after they trigger the exit process for Britain to leave. Officially that seems to be so, but then there are European 'officials' saying (on the telly) that Britain won't be allowed to take their time! Rather what is being said is that if Britain wants to leave they are going to be kicked out straight away ... one way or another. eg on Monday the EU members will convene a meeting of members, but Britain is not invited! So the push is on already it seems.
And another example, the Scottish First Minister says that they 'have it in writing' that they can hold another referendum (because conditions have changed from the way they were when they voted to remain part of Britain.) But then an English MP said "No! Scotland can't just call a referendum! They have to have the British Government's permission, and that's unlikely to be given."
Its all sounding a bit as if 'very subtle, polite, threats' are being thrown around - but who knows, everyone might settle down ... or it might get nastier.
It will get nastier, before things settle. Almost certainly.Bear in mind that backbencher MPs can say whatever they want, but usually they don't have the ability to act on it. They're talking to their specific constituents, not the general public, or even the rest of Parliament.
yep, and look at this. It seems both sides even claim Churchill as their own http://theconversation.com/what-churc...Perhaps Justin - our resident Churchill afficionado - knows something of the history of this re Churchill's position.
Apart from anything else ... eg the serious issue of what it might or might not do to the global economy and the like ... it looks like a very interesting topic to go actually back and look at, from an historical point of view, follow it through from 'way back when' to 'what's happening now' ... and wonder where it might go from here, into the future!
Well, I do know that Churchill was a big proponent during and after WWII of a "United States of Europe." Whether the current EU would meet his expectations I don't know.What I do know from reading about him, and from his own writings, is that he was a decisive man of action and much foresight that most people discounted and discredited. While the government dithered, he railed against Nazism and Britain's weak defenses during the 1930's. He always wanted to be moving, and if it was the wrong direction, he would correct it.
The man had his faults to be sure, and I probably sound like I'm putting him up on a pedestal to worship. But when I view the caliber of politicians that will be on my ballot this fall, they fall so short, and pale so much in comparison that I am deeply concerned about the direction of the U.S. Full disclosure: I have almost always voted Republican, however in the last election and in the one ahead, I will be voting for a third party Libertarian candidate.
Oh sorry, I should have read the article you linked rather than repeat it's main point!
It may also depend on "which" Churchill we're talking about. He went through various phases.
@Andy G, didn't even know this yes - surprising to see all 4 through. I caught the Rep of Ireland match - that was a tear jerker. Course there was that other news this morning too on the Brexit matter. Afraid I copped out of the whole thing, being in two minds then realising that personally, and no matter how much I analyse and dither, it's all much of a muchness in the end.
I'll tell you what will happen. After a lot of hot air everything will continue almost as usual. Britain needs Europe, but not half as much as Europe needs Britain. Europe will be shooting itself in the foot if it tries to punish Britain. My only concern is for the Ukraine, as Britain provides a great deal of what little political backbone there is in the EU to really help that European country. Putin is waiting for an opportunity to roll in the tanks. As it is, EU support for the Ukraine has so far been little better than pathetic.
Well after hours of the Brexit issue being on the 24 hour news channel here I've just heard one of the more amazing statements of all: a group of young British people talking, most of them disappointed with the result and one of them says, in all seriousness, that "most young people 'voted' on social media that they wanted to stay in the EU" ... but then didn't actually formally cast a vote at the ballot box. Cyber Space must just seem so real, in their world, that a vote there is somehow viewed as enough!
@Gary It could have been even more interesting if Andy Lake had kept his second story #16 Sufferage, although I also had his other one as my #4 choice.It's Andy G with 2 stories, Gary ....
But - I'd like to write an alternate history around Brexit, and an outbreak of common sense.
Meanwhile, if Scotland votes to leave the UK, I'd like the option for bits of England to join them ...
@Andy . Well, if Alaska can be part of the US with Canada in-between, then why not Scotland and SE England?Actually, you bring up an interesting idea for a SF story: "in the future" the idea of a nation being defined by mere geographical contiguousness may seem incredibly, maybe near-incomprehensibly, quaint. A perfect example of the still-analog thinking of those folks in the early 21st century.
I'm obviously not the most informed individual on European or British politics, but I couldn't help feeling like a bit of hope died with Brexit. It felt like a victory for the past over the future, for fear over hope, for selfishness over idealism. A fever of bigotry and wall-building seems to be sweeping the globe. Nationalism and its bff racism are rapidly ascending. Refugees are met with fear in place of compassion.Some say this is the bitter fruit of entrenched elites on both sides of the Atlantic long neglecting the workers. We've seen the anger of the masses flare here in the states, in the recent past with "Occupy Wallstreet." It went nowhere, of course, because it had no focus, no goal. Now, the focusing point for all that long-repressed anger is the oldest, most basic instinct of all: Keep out the foreigners. Blame them for all our troubles. Build a damn wall.
Damn.
I agree Tom, I'd also add that its hard to believe just how politically stupid and reckless David Cameron seems to have been in taking the gamble to have such a referendum. It would have given him political kuedos if the Remain vote had won, but he didn't seem to think about the depth of divisions and how to address things like real problems of entrenched corruptions in large 'organizations' such as the EU. Some groups of older people just took all their fears and conceptualized them as statements like "Grandad fought and died in WWII for freedom from Germany and now we are letting ourselves be bossed around by the Germans." And younger people who want a more multicultural freedom to live and work where they wish, and have their foreign friends be less afraid, did equally crazy things to express their viewpoint by "voting [prolifically] on Facebook," as one young woman mentioned had happened, but 'forgetting' to actually go and vote at the polling booths!
Not that it makes any difference to anyone but me, but I am glad that the telly here had 24 hour rolling coverage (mostly from the BBC, but some other sources as well) and loads of interviews and different opinions.
It's made me want to now add to my list of 'writing projects to help me try to understand this weird world of humanity.'
I want to add a 'creative non-fiction' (a term Andy L. mentioned some time ago) project of taking a look at different aspects of what led up to this and where it might go; from different angles: eg a simple chronological timeline of events ... starting, say when Churchill and co were putting forward the whole idea of a "United States of Europe" ...
and then I want to take another perspective eg the development of the EU and was there a parallel to the circa 1944 growing internationalization of monetary policy as mentioned here about the development of the Bretton Woods agreement http://www.nber.org/chapters/c6869.pdf and ideas like 'bodies of knowledge from experts interacting with political policy' as opposed to just House of Lords types imposing on public opinion/manipulating public opinion (as Cameron seems to have been hoping to have done ... but failed! I think he probably had a secret fantasy of himself as an aristocratic entitled to be, once upon a time, an automatically included member of the House of Lords ) ... N.B. the author at that pdf link above talks about the importance of "a community of experts [who] served to articulate a “middle ground” between previously unbridged positions and, as a consequence, provided opportunities for new political coalitions (both within and across nations)."
and then I want to move on to other perspectives, like the numerous social perspectives ...
and so on.
Referendums are the purest form of democracy- it is amazing how many 'democrates', especially of the political left, are now deriding one person, one vote. And one of the biggest reasons for the out vote was Obama trying to bully the British into remaining - and out of blatant hegemonic interests. But then America isn't democratic. Neither is the EU.
I accept, of course, that their never can be pure democracy, socialism, because minority interests need to be protected.
But the implication that the Government was wrong to give the people a voice actually stinks.
And thus the world remains a sweet smelling, neatly black and white place ... so best not delve looking for the shades of grey, let alone colours! I think is what you're basically saying Richard. Donald Trump also believes in a similar dumb-for-the-masses/cunning-for-him, way of 'doing democracy' - doing it right over, and then some!EDIT: p.s. I agree it was a real dumb decision to invite Obama over to give a lecture ... that's not the sort of 'expert debate' exposure that was needed, let alone not sufficiently reminding young people that social media is not the ballot box!
Life isn't as simple as 'the government giving a voice' ... governments sometimes try to give 'puppet people the voice of the ventriloquist.' Cameron did that and it was silly. Anyway it remains to be seen how it will affect the world e.g. will enough people in America be stirred up by some of the crazy things Trump and Palin are now saying about Brexit to vote Trump in as President? These things DO affect the world.
Its really not just about some cozy idealized, simplistic, view of what does or doesn't constitute democracy - because such a view can be manipulated by the powerful and selfish!
But maybe things have to get really bad before they get better ... all Hail President Trump! Maybe a stronger and better EU will configure itself now!
EDIT again!: and another point is that IF the referendum was about an honest attempt by politicians to 'give Voice to the People' then the referendum on whether or not to leave the EU would have been held before the referendum on whether Scotland wanted to leave Britain, as it would have been known that Scotland was voting on staying or going from a Britain in the EU! No, the EU referendum was held because of a promise made to the people to try to stop Conservative voters going even further right and voting UKIP (UK Independence Party) and it backfired on Cameron! So 'a desperate reason' was behind the referendum, not 'some democratic ideal'!
But in any case, I shouldn't have let myself been drawn into this - by your oversimplified and twisting-my-words statement that accused me of implying that (the principle of) giving the people a voice is a wrong thing to do.
My deepest interest in this is as I said in my prior post: to set myself a WRITING project, a creative non-fiction task ... of exploring the numerous shades of grey of this fascinating subject, in order to try to understand something of what makes the weird world of Humanity tick. That I want to do that does NOT make me an under-miner of democratic principles ... and I might borrow your words to say "the implication that I was espousing the principle of it being 'wrong for the Government to give the people a voice' actually stinks." as does twisting people's words to make a point!
Not what I was saying and I'll refrain from being rude about your biased views- Enough said- we don't need bloody politics on this thread. As for listening to the BBC to get a balanced view- that's very funny. We all slip over the line occasionally- but keep your political views to your stories please.
Richard,You're talking about one thing and I'm talking about another!
What I'm talking about is the very topic of this thread: ALTERNATE HISTORY ... but not history alternatives from hundreds or thousands of years ago, but of now!
As writers we are supposed to be able to deal with that, to be both up close and to stand back and write the different angles!
(I did not say I watch the BBC to get any particular view, balanced or otherwise. I watch it to get from it, as from other sources and resources, 'an impression' ... as a word-artist, looking out for something that says to me "oh there's a connecting point!" I watch with an artist's eye! And this is only the very beginning of my developing this idea of wanting to write this particular' alternate story' as creative non-fiction. Of course I will research it!! But first, I let my imagination gather possibilities from easily available places, especially as the events happen. (Unlike what you're trying to do to my mind it seems with your way-off-the-mark comments, on this matter, I DON'T set about shutting my mind down as I am thinking about, feeling enthused about, my writing project. That's the time to let one's mind fly all over the place checking out the lay of the land, I think!)
p.s. part of the legitimate role of this group is to allow us to grow as writers. I stated very clearly that I am interested in trying my hand at creative non-fiction. If it is not appropriate to mention WRITING projects that interest us here then where is it appropriate? and this thread IS about ALTERNATIVE HISTORIES. What could be of greater interest than to be right there at the point where history takes one turn as opposed to another ... and to be thinking about and gathering ideas and information and opinions of others and to explore my own ideas, with a view to writing it up!
Just because YOU perceive me as {primarily, or only} expressing a personal political view, doesn't mean that that is what I am actually doing. I am exploring WRITING inspirations and ideas!!!!! and yes that does intersect with real life stuff at times!
