Review Group discussion
General discussion
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Disallow Authors without Message turned on in Profile
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Chance wrote: "I'm thinking that authors who wish to join review groups and don't provide a way for others in the group to contact them should not be added to the group unless they either turn on the Message func..."What a great idea, Chance! Either they want a review/opinion etc or they don't. I have wasted far too much time in the past trying to track down someone's communication for reviews and so on...
I'll shut up now!
This is indeed irritating, but I think the answer is just to remind people that it's their responsibility to get their books to the reviewers, and if they don't, no-one is obliged to review them.Also, I think one has to allow for the fact that some writers aren't that tech-savvy.
Mike wrote: "This is indeed irritating, but I think the answer is just to remind people that it's their responsibility to get their books to the reviewers, and if they don't, no-one is obliged to review them...."
I agree that they have responsibility to get their books to reviewers, but what of the books they are to review? Authors have to chase them down just to send a file to them in hope that they will write a review. When authors are difficult to contact, I get the feeling they are not really interested in writing a review. As for not being tech-savvy--they need to reach out and ask for help so they can become more savvy. People are more than willing to help, but the technologically-challenged still need to make an effort.
Yes. To everything you all said.Navigating goodreads isn't intuitive, but it's not rocket science either. And anytime I've asked for help, the community has leapt forward.
That said, I understand that shelfari has recently merged with goodreads. Shelfari protocols were totally different. So, I think we may need to be a little forgiving and reach out to the clueless for a few months.
E.G. wrote: "Yes. To everything you all said.Navigating goodreads isn't intuitive, but it's not rocket science either. And anytime I've asked for help, the community has leapt forward.
That said, I understan..."
I hadn't heard about Shelfari. Thanks for the info.
What do you suggest we do when an author has signed up, taken up a slot on the group, and let the community with no means to contact them? I'm moderating a group right now with that problem. People want to get started, but 4 of those authors must feel that one author is AWOL, which means they will likely review 4 books and only receive 3 reviews in return. Hardly fair.
As the moderator, I followed the link from their profile to their website, and, there was no way to contact them there either. Unless this person steps up soon, I will be wishing they had never been allowed in the group.
So, as well as checking that an author has an author profile on goodreads, and a book is properly published on amazon, that they don't have clashes with the other authors in the group, that they aren't a blacklisted member, you want me to get into a personal conversation with each and every person that signs up to a group?I'm not sure people understand just how much time administrating the entire group takes. I am also personally modding 5 rounds at the moment.
For the celebratory 'group' there are 10 rounds. With 10 authors in each. Keeping track of who had replied to a personal message, and who hadn't, sending out reminders etc would be a logistical nightmare.
Maybe if this was a paid post, I could find the time, but it isn't.
It does happen occasionally that we have an AWOL member from the start, very occasionally. I for one don't think its worth doing hours of extra work, and in the process slowing down round formations to filter out the 1 or 2 people in a hundred who don't adhere to the rules.
Emma, you confirmed what I already suspected. Thank you for your generosity of spirit and for your time.
Emma wrote: "So, as well as checking that an author has an author profile on goodreads, and a book is properly published on amazon, that they don't have clashes with the other authors in the group, that they ar..."I'm not suggesting that Emma check the authors. I'd like it to be listed as a requirement for signing up for the group. Also listed in the overall discussion page and as part of the blurb for each group. Just moderating a group is usually easy, until authors fail to post reviews or are not contactable. The more the system is automated, the better. Emma, especially, is likely to burn out and give up if it is too much of a hassle or time sink. I'm not certain how the group will be maintainable if it continues to grow, in which case the cases of AWOL will probably increase.
Chance wrote: "What do you suggest we do when an author has signed up, taken up a slot on the group, and let the community with no means to contact them? I'm moderating a group right now with that problem. People want to get started, but 4 of those authors must feel that one author is AWOL, which means they will likely review 4 books and only receive 3 reviews in return. Hardly fair...."
There isn't much you can do other than what Emma already does - blacklist the wayward author.
For the group members left high and dry - ask if anyone will take on an extra read. This has happened before and will happen again. I've willingly picked up an extra read in those circumstances, as have others.
Why not a sentence at the head of each new group thread saying, "When you sign up, please give the link to your author profile, and ensure that others can contact you via that profile."
Mike wrote: "Why not a sentence at the head of each new group thread saying, "When you sign up, please give the link to your author profile, and ensure that others can contact you via that profile.""That would help. I'm also tempted, once the group is turned over to me as a moderator, to click quickly through the profiles and ensure the Message option is on in their profile. It would be quick. If the Message option is not there, the author is immediately removed and the group is opened up again for another author to join that will simply replace the author in the list, if and only if they do not have conflicts in that space (ie Emma is not to reshuffle the list).
Not every moderator may want to do this, but it could be an optional step when they take over the group.
Mike's option is reasonable though I'm not sure how many people read the group rules thoroughly.
If that rule is added, someone is going to have to check everyone complies. The most convenient and efficient person to do that, is the one setting up the group.Having to go back and re-order a group (usually because I've missed a clash in a very lengthy sign up thread) is probably the most annoying part of the job.
There isn't a program that does the order set up, it is literally me reading through the sign up thread, working out who can or can't review each member and working out an order that works for everyone. I get though a lot of bits of paper.
All details, authors names and goodread links,, books (with goodreads links) round orders, dates of individual rounds, are put into a word access database, then into an excel spreadsheet which produces the order you lot see as 'send your books to' in a set up thread.
That is then combined with a word template to produce the messages you see on each round thread.
Apart from sorting out the review rounds, there are the queries from group members (past, resent and future) people with problems completing their reviews or having problems with reviews that have been written about their books. People with issues with their individual mod, (doesn't happen often but it does happen).
Keeping up with the introduction thread and the one for one thread.
The last 'admin' mod, Jay burnt out as did the person who started the group before her.
I had no idea what I was getting into when I put my hand up to stop the group closing when Jay resigned with almost immediate effect, but hopefully this list (or rant) will give others some idea of what the job entails.
since Jay's time, I've added several new features to the group, such as the one for one thread and the different types of rounds which are proving very popular.
But it is a time sap, a big one. I probably spend fifteen to twenty (at least) hours a week on group stuff.
Unfortunately, when it comes down to it, we all have to factor in finances and this doesn't net me a bean. Thank you's are lovely, and I do appreciate them, (who doesn't like their ego fluffing?) but let's face it, they don't put dinner on the table. I'd love to be able to have the time to do more with the group, to advertise and grow it, to reach out to more struggling authors but...
BTW, I'll be starting a 'general round' in a few minutes for our latest mod recruit (Waves at Kristian).
Emma, one of these days you have GOT to show a screenshot of that spreadsheet! Sounds maddening! And yeah, thanks for voluntarily and single-handedly keeping this group afloat! Volunteers come and go but I doubt the group would have the steady direction if someone was not giving 20+ hours to it!
It wouldn't fit on a single screen shot. Suffice to say, I was rather 'innocent' about what I was taking on. But I can now add using Access databases to my field of knowledge.I'd be interested to know what other skills/knowledge people have developed during their time as an author, that don't include actually writing!
We are having a messy start to 100i as not everyone has sent out their books, and one or two have - again! - proved difficult to contact via their author page, or have not claimed it at all. It will sort itself out, as it always does.
I have mastered, or part-mastered, Adobe InDesign for production of paperbacks (I used to work in publishing, but had been using Quark XPress). I've also joined the twitterati.
I spent endless hours with GIMP, before deciding that $45 isn't actually too much to spend on a pre-made cover....
Yes, I tried GIMP - I find it handy for some simple jobs but too counterintuitive for design work, though the functionality is there.
I've got GIMP, but for all but very simple design, I default to my old version of PhotoImpact (the one that is now a Nova product, not the one that is now a Corel product). In the past, Mike Duron and Jay Howard (the group's originators) experimented with different ways to get the labor parceled out among mods, including using Google Docs and Dropbox (IIRC) to have mods add and subtract to a general file. It didn't work. Half the time the documents were inaccessible and people didn't understand how to edit and re-save them.
So eventually it all fell on the group's Lead Mod to do all the sorting. It seems to be less time-sucking when there are fewer groups running at once, and I'm all for limiting the number of groups running at one time if that will help Emma out. I've also volunteered to do more stuff in the past, but I absolutely will not take on Lead Mod - I knew from my contact with Jay what a drag it was and still is. Worst is dealing with entitled authors who come here and don't fulfill their responsibilities, or those who expect us to turn into 'cops' and 'enforce' some arbitrary rules. We can't and don't want to - we're just Goodreads users like everyone else.
Okay, /rant. Not sure what to do to help, but we basically rely on people who use this group to be honest and helpful themselves. It's the Tragedy of the Commons in Goodreads group form.
Setting up the '100' group celebration was a bit much, but that was 11 rounds all at once. But I agree that it has to be one person doing the main admin, nothing else will work.
I also agree about members doing easy things for themselves, which includes keeping an eye on their own clashes with other round members and on their round thread. I have to say that the vast majority do.
Thoughts?