The Brutality Index. A Question on indie publishing

[Samuel , Director]

Hello.
The genesis of this particular thread came from a conversation with one of our group members. He's a veteran Marine and happens to have written some really captivating contemporary military thrillers with a dystopian sting in the tail. I've reviewed three of them and you should go check them out. https://www.goodreads.com/author/show...

Anyway, while we were talking, we both made the observation of a trend. The trend being that indie thriller novels, unlike mainstream published books, seem to be more brutal, more dark and unpredictable than the majority of mainstream publishing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all mainstream published thrillers are lollipops and marshmallows, case in point being John Le Carre's first books, Joshua Hood's Search and Destroy Series, Tom Wood's Victor thrillers and former SAS trooper turned novelist Chris Ryan's work. But generally I've come to the conclusion that most of the indie publishing I read is usually more gritty than mainstream publishing standards.

Why is this?

Does the independence inherent of indie publishing allow a writer to go all out with executing their vision for their book?

Is it a matter of personal preference and most mainstream writers subconsciously hold back on their more darker urges?

What contributes and helps define the brutality level in a thriller? An ending where the good guys lose? Tragic experiences for the characters? The fictional universe/setting where the story takes place?

What are some spy/military/geopolitical thrillers, mainstream or indie which have surprised you with their brutality?

As always, love to hear your thoughts.

[Keith]

Hey Sam,
I wonder if it has anything to do with the bigger publishers running more of a 'business', like it's all about the numbers.
If it's too brutal and gritty I've seen people make a lot of complaints. Particularly when swearing is involved, people that read some of the bigger known publishing houses can't seem to believe that some soldiers drop an F word in every sentence sometimes more.
I think it comes down to the characters, setting and time the book is taking place.
I do prefer my action and dialogue to be as realistic as possible, that said too much swearing can spoil a scene or a book.

[Bodo]

I think „Shadow Masters“ by J.T. Patten is a perfect example to showcase the advantages of Indie-publishing for the readers.

It has a pitch black heart, a villain who is pretty much screwed in the head and contains a lot of swearing and violence (I highly doubt that any of the big Publishers would have green-lighted the “wood chipper scene” or even the one where Havens’ family is attacked, without some edits). Yet especially those scenes are essential in setting the book apart from the mainstream. Not that I have anything against mainstream, I count Ben Coes and Will Jordan among my favorite authors! But sometimes I just love to read a book that makes you think. A book where the plot sometimes diverts from the “established road map of twists” and where one can’t be sure that the “good guys” come out on top at the end or even where the line between good and bad often is a blurred one!

I think we are more than ever living in a very “gray”, morally conflicted world (even more than during the Cold War where things were pretty straight forward at least on the outside). So why shouldn’t our “heroes” be allowed to reflect the moral ambiguity of our times? Isn’t even the most decent human being flawed in many more ways than one and therefore, when confronted with almost impossible choices, can’t just make “the only right decision”?

Before it gets more philosophical than desirable, let me try to illustrate my point on commonly known example. The Bond Movies.

When Timothy Dalton showed the world a more brutal take on Bond in “License to Kill” (which actually was even closer to the novels than even Connery’s), it led to outraged criticism from fans and critics alike and Dalton was ultimately forced into early retirement from the role.

When Daniel Craig entered the picture in 2006, his portrayal showing Bond as a damaged and ruthless thug in a suit who shoots first and asks questions later, received euphoric praise from most critics and many fans, but more importantly breathed new life into a decaying franchise.

And while the producers noticeably reduced the violence in Skyfall and more recently Spectre, it’s interesting to note that early versions of the latter’s script see Bond executing the film’s main villain with a shot to the head instead of sparing him at the end. The producers apparently found such an action either to brutal for some of the audience to bear or they simply didn’t want to ruin the possibility of Waltz’ return.

Either way in my opinion this example shows a trend that people slowly are coming around from the sugar-coating of black and white portrayals in movies and books to a more dark and realistic approach.

Back to the topic and the book I mentioned above. The author Mr. Patten admitted in an interview that he maybe has to make a decision in the future to reduce the darkness in his novels in order to find a broader audience. I think that would be a shame as that would somehow limit Mr. Patten’s abilities to frequently brake conventions of the genre!

In his second novel “Primed Charge” (to be release on April 22th) Patten for example, takes a situation often apparent in the genre (namely two old, battle-hardened, befriended soldiers preparing for a valuable last stand) and spins it into a direction, which a frequent reader of the genre wouldn’t expect by any means, which in turn leads to a crushing, gut-wrenching twist.

It is my hope, that authors like J.T. Patten, Josh Hood and Stephen England are only the first line for a new generation of authors (published and indie alike), who will bring more of the contemporary darkness in the genre!

[[deleted user]]

I believe that it turns around the hypocrisy of some readers (who want books to be 'politically correct') and the marketing strategies of the big publishing houses, who don't want to offend anyone in order to make bigger sales. That is why indie authors tend to have in my opinion a freer hand in how realistic and dark they can write their novels. I say 'realistic and dark' because spying and war is not for the faint of the heart or for the delicate constitutions. Those who think that soldiers don't use the F-word and don't swear should take off their pink glasses join reality back. As an indie author who writes lots of war scenes and brutal encounters for my novels, I am not ready to tone down those scenes just because it could shock someone, especially if that would make the story unrealistic.