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Know anything about Inkshares?
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I've not heard of them, good or bad other than that they are crowd-funded/Kickstarter-style launched. I'd ask some questions, though.I'd ask them which bookstores they distribute to. It's possible but unlikely they have deals with bookstores (other than a couple of local-to-them ones supporting another local business).
Contact authors they publish and ask about distribution and satisfaction with Inkshares.
How are they getting "preorder sales" before the books are distributed to the bookstores? By preorder, do they mean when a "customer special orders" -- which is just a special order bookstores are likely to filll from Ingrams, other databases or wherever they can without any distribution deals in place? Where outside of the Inkshares site do customers see the books to generate the preorder sales needed to get the book distributed?
You might also look around your local bookstores for some of their titles. And when not interrupting other customers and their work, chat them up explaining that a publisher you were considering using said they could get your book distributed to bookstores and you wanted to see if they stocked directly from smaller publishers outside of customer special orders...
Doesn't mean anything that reader me hasn't heard of the publisher.
But as someone who has worked in bookstores -- it is unusual to stock books from outside of regular distributors and mainstream publishers (and possibly a local academic press) for most bookstores. Unusual to be on a smaller publisher's distribution versus ordering as wanted. Most will order stock via one of the industry databases like Ingrams or order wherever they can if a customer puts in a special request--but not stock on the shelves. Even the independent ones welcoming indie authors and books of particularly local interest are more likely to use usual databases to order those or get directly from the authors.
ETA: changed "Han" to "than."
Article a year ago at https://janefriedman.com/crowdfunded-... seems to think they just use Ingrams (which Lightscribe, Createspace [if you remember to check expanded dustribution] and a lot of others also use):"...Inkshares (my employer): Inkshares acts as a traditional publisher once books succeed in their funding goals. We use Girl Friday Productions for editorial and production services, R.R. Donnelly for printing the initial print run, Ingram for national physical and digital distribution into bookstores and other retailers, and a team of marketers to generate awareness. We have a rewards system (Inkshares Credits) for readers who refer books to friends or help fund books that go on to sell thousands of copies. We pay authors 50% of gross revenue on physical books and 70% of gross revenue on digital books. Authors grant Inkshares nonexclusive rights, meaning an author can publish elsewhere if they so choose..."Not really specific as to whether the author or the publisher works to reach funding for your book or if the work publsher does to "generate awareness" is awareness of publisher or awareness of your book.
ETA: I have no way f judging validity of that article. Or these links search engine found https://kdp.amazon.com/community/mess... , http://www.jfdubeau.com/babbling-eloq... , ...
and a commenter notes: "They are a vanity publisher. They are taking vanity publishing and offering authors to crowdfund the money needed for their services. Vanity publishing is when the publisher asks for money to publish a book; you're asking others to pay those fees for you..." at http://absolutewrite.com/forums/archi... with an original poster that seems (disingenuously?) praising endlessly how great and legitimate Inkshares is after first asking if forum thought they should consider using Inkshares.
A later commenter on same absolute write thread adds "I have concerns about Inkshares' Publishing Terms (https://www.inkshares.com/publishing_... ). If I'm reading them right, you're eligible for royalty payments only for sales over 1,000 copies. Also, while a 70/30 split of "net revenues" sounds good (with 70% to the author), "net revenues" is defined as net income (list price less discounts) less production costs and shipping. So that 70% is a much smaller piece of the pie than it seems--and Inkshares is essentially getting paid twice, once for the expense of creating the book (via the crowdfunding), and a second time for the cost of producing it. This is minimal-risk publishing--and the less risk a publisher takes, the less incentive it has to vigorously market and promote its books.
It's not clear to me whether Inkshares' contract is life-of-copyright, and if so, what the reversion provisions are (it's super-important that a life-of copyright grant be balanced by precise reversion language). And although the grant of rights is non-exclusive (theoretically meaning that you could publish with someone else or publish yourself), the benefit of this is seriously diminished--if not entirely eliminated--by a sweeping non-competition clause, and by the fact that Inkshares claims the right to serve as your agent for the sale of just about all subsidiary rights, including foreign language, film, serial, merchandising, and more. - Victoria"
Then when someone argues she is wrong and Inkshares allows author to keep all rights comments "No.
You don't have to surrender your copyright, but (if I'm reading the Publishing Terms section (https://www.inkshares.com/publishing_...) of Inkshares' website right) you do have to grant them the nonexclusive right to print, publish, and sell your book. While the fact that the grant is nonexclusive, rather than exclusive, means that you could theoretically publish elsewhere, it's highly unlikely that another publisher will be willing to acquire a book whose rights are already being exploited by a different publisher. Plus, Inkshares requires you to "agree to neither dispose of any rights, nor publish or cause to be published any version or derivation of the work, which would materially and adversely impair the commercial value of your work." I'm pretty sure that would cover any edition of the book published by someone else--or self-published by you.
In effect, therefore, this becomes an exclusive grant of rights. And Inkshares' use of the word "irrevocable" (as in "You grant Inkshares a non-exclusive, irrevocable, and transferable right to print, publish, and sell your work worldwide") suggests that this is a life-of-copyright grant that may or may not allow you to get your rights back once your book stops selling.
Additionally, Inkshares appears to claim the right to license any and all subsidiary rights in your book to third parties.
All in all--and with the caveat that I haven't seen the actual contract language and am interpreting Inkshares' description of it--this looks to me to be as binding as any exclusive life-of-copyright all-rights contract I've ever seen.- Victoria"
Being in the Ingram catalogue alone won't get you into bookstores - unless you are going to hand sell on consignment to a local indie store. Most of the chains have their own internal ordering system and the rarely even look at Ingram. For example B&N and Walmart have their own submission process you have to go through to be considered for placement in their internal listing and possible placement on a shelf. For B&N you have to submit 2 copies of the book, detail sales history, awards, reviews and outline your marketing plan (or they did when I went through the process 2 years ago).
I would be asking Inkshares exactly *what* stores they distribute to, ask what titles they have placed in a bookstore and physically go check if you can find them. I suspect they are relying on naive authors thinking Ingram = bookstore placement, When it doesn't, there's a heap of work that goes on behind the scenes to get a book on a shelf.
A.W. put it clearer than I did. Customer special requests are usually the only time bookstores deviate from their usual stock procedures to even use Ingrams. If Inkshares has gotten distribution deals (presumably linked to all those "preorder sales") to get indie books on the shelves -- that's a huge deal. But I'd want to physically see the books on a shelf for myself at at least one of my local bookstores and confirm it with some of the list of stores Inkshares provided that weren't local to them (San Francisco). I'd be very surprised if the blogosphere wasn't full of the news that indie/self-publishing authors could now have a sure distribution deal with bookstores where books would actually be on the shelf for browsing customers rather than available to order via Ingrams. I'd expect the indie bookstores would be more likely to offer up space to the book printing booth/kiosk Books-A-Million had experimented with where interested readers would browse database of indie offerings and in the booth itself pay and print themselves a book.
It's good that Inkshare's current terms don't seem to lock you into an exclusive but the wording is odd enough with stuff like "non-compete" and " subsidiary rights" I'd ask a lawyer. I'm pretty sure some of the Amazon kindle select options requiring exclusivity to Amazon aren't available to authors while book is for sale or preorder on Inkshares if that's a consideration.
Not impossible to get a non- traditionally published book on the shelf of brick and mortar stores, indie or chain. ButI think it's likely the most difficult way for an indie published book to see sales unless already a runaway hit seen on something like Good Morning America, made into a major motion already, or touted by someone like Oprah.
As a reader, it's odd to me to think of preordering a book I didn't know about yet by going to a site I don't normally buy books from, where the book may or not be published depending on how many preorder sales are taken, with no predictable actual sales date. But that's me personally -- and I seldom read indies. And until OP asked, I hadn't heard of Inkshares. I'm more likely to find indie books I do read here on goodreads (which does import data from Ingrams) via a friend raving about it, a book signing, Amazon website or directly from the stores on my ereader devices (nook, kobo and kindle).
Preorders for me are for highly anticipated books from authors I already fan, most frequently the next in series I'm already enjoying.
Kickstarter, Gofundme and all kinds of crowdsourcing programs do have participants -- so crowdsourcing isn't impossible (just not the route publishers have traditionally taken and instead used by authors to fund things like covers and editing who then use a print on demand service like Createspace for the physical copies).
I suppose if Inkshare can get enough readers intrigued by the idea of selecting which books get published, not impossible and certainly a lower overhead way to select books to publish only after pre-sold, that it could work even without being in bookstore shelves -- seems to me similar to a traditional publisher seeing an author's sales and preorders explode on Amazon who then tries to sign that author (and no ding on Inkshare that they'd have fewer readers than Amazon because what book selling site doesn't?).
I just wouldn't believe dustribution deals with bookstores unless I could see actual book on the shelf. Very likely they just add your book to Ingram and similar databases.
Their editing and other services, no idea (good or bad). No clue if you could contract same services through same companies Inkshares uses without publishing via Inkshares or if they exclusively contract with Inkshares (that is, if those services rather than book-on-shelf are why you would choose Inkshares, can you cut out the middleman and purchase thise services if not prohibitively priced?)
ETA: I'd also be curious about their post-preorder sales data. Online from their website and from all those print books they ship to bookstores. And if I got paid for every book shipped to bookstore (via their distribution deal rather than Ingram type of database for special ordering) where I'd already know I was guaranteed royalties on # books after the preorder fundraising because Inkshares would ship # books to its participating bookstores.
A.W. wrote: "Being in the Ingram catalogue alone won't get you into bookstores - unless you are going to hand sell on consignment to a local indie store. Most of the chains have their own internal ordering sy..."
A.W., are author events at B&N part of this, or is that something different?
I approached a store manager of one, as to inquire exactly how B&N support local authors. The response, while downplayed, was that a title had to be in their system for participation.
Here is the deal with Inkshares. I've spoken to their founders at BEA last year in NYC. Similar but not the same as Kindle Scout, where you solicit votes and anyone who votes gets your book for free when you publish, you get people to prepurchase your book. They don't get it for free, but like KS, you make $0 from those books. I forget the exact figure, but it is in the neighborhood of 1,000 orders or $10k in retail sales BEFORE they produce the book. They use that money for production, etc. you get NO royalties until AFTER that threshold is met. If that threshold isn't met, your book doesn't go into production.Something to consider, most non-trad authors (90%+) sell less than 1000 books. YOU will need to drive your marketing like 100% of all authors. PERIOD. Marketing from a publisher gets you exposure but never guarantees sales.
Now, print sales and Ingram. Being in the catalog guarantees you nothing. Unless they are with IPS and have a sales rep, which I believe they do, your chances of getting in libraries and booksellers is via hand selling like several others have mentioned. Again, buzz, a good press kit, and marketing plan are all considered when committing to shelf space. Signing, name events, editorial reviews from Publishers Weekly, Booklist, Library Jounal, all help your case as do good blurbs. You also need to offer trade terms, which is a 55% discount off retail, and make it returnable.
Now here is the ugly truth behind print sales and why broad distribution is not a good thing for unknown authors: returns. Bookstores return over 50% of all books in any condition. Not sure how Inkshares is offering 50% gross retail given the required trade terms. Sure it's not net? Otherwise, they would be in the red on every book sold. So, the way the math nets out you have to sell 2-3 books for every return. It doesn't take long for your royalties to turn negative. I've seen all of this first hand working behind the scenes with my first publisher...
That said, with the right amount of effort and marketing (and sorry, funding) you can succeed. I've seen that too...
This is a viable publishing option, just go in with your eyes wide open and educated on the downsides of print.
Best of luck!!!
L.G. wrote: "Here is the deal with Inkshares. I've spoken to their founders at BEA last year in NYC. Similar but not the same as Kindle Scout, where you solicit votes and anyone who votes gets your book for fre..."Wait, L.G., first paragraph...I just want to be clear of my understanding. There are two groups: those who vote and those who pre-purchase, right?
@L.G., So, does getting published by Inkshares mean (a) your book is in the Ingram catalogs (and possibly others) bookstores can order from, (b) actually distributed to bookstores by Inkshares (meaning not just available for ordering but actually on the bookshelves), or (c) both?(The returns policies bookstores are used to is also a reason I usually see cited as why many of them don't carry Createspace and other POD or Indie published books even if willing to special order. If, as op seems to have been told, Inkspace actually cut a distribution deal to the bookstores it's the first I've heard even a rumor of that happening for an indie publisher (outside of specialized niches serviced by specialized bookstores) -- and weird that the news hadn't gone viral.)
D.A. (Debbie) wrote: "Article a year ago at https://janefriedman.com/crowdfunded-... seems to think they just use Ingrams (which Lightscribe, Createspace [if you remember to check expanded dustribution] and a lo..."Thanks for these links, Debbie. Yes, the wording on the Inkshares web site is vague. In a world gone by, sales reps from Random House, Penguin, etc. would visit bookstores personally with their list — as I'm sure you know from working in a bookstore. When I asked the owner of my local bookstore, he said that he doesn't use Ingram's but just looks at the Big 5's catalogues every season and orders directly from them (no indies for him!).
I will ask Inkshares what they mean, specifically, by getting books into bookstores, but just wondered if anyone here had their books published by them, and what their experience was.
L.G. wrote: "Here is the deal with Inkshares. I've spoken to their founders at BEA last year in NYC. Similar but not the same as Kindle Scout, where you solicit votes and anyone who votes gets your book for fre..."L.G., Thanks for this information. According to the web site, Inkshares now only requires 250 pre-orders before going into production. That's much better than 1,000, which it sounds like they required when you spoke to them!
The bookstore return is a big consideration. At the pre-order level, I don't think that comes into play since pre-order customers buy directly from Inkshares. However, if the pre-orders get to 750, and I agree that's a huge number for indies, then the authors get a whole new package of goodies, including "distribution into bookstores nationwide."
So we're all wondering what that last phrase means in real-world terms!
Has anyone here published with Inkshares? Would love to hear about your experience!
Thanks.
Also I should mention that books that have been accepted by Inkshares have 90 days to get to these pre-order numbers: either 250 for production, or 750 for production plus other benefits.
I just saw that they "...allow shops to order titles still in the fund-raising stage in bulk and at a discount, which, like the contributions of one individual, works toward the title reaching its funding goal." Still not the same as putting you on the bookstore shelf.
And I just read further on the 2014 absolutewrite thread and an account saying is from the CEO of Inkshares does comment "Ingram (our distributor)" -- okay, so it doesn't say "our sole distributor" and there's no way of proving if comment is really from CEO. And it isn't a 2016 thread so terms may have changed since.
Unless I saw something definitive (preferably right in the contract or right in the bookstore shelf) that Inkshare's distribution to bookstores involved more than special orders or listing in Ingram's catalog ... their site refers to their "distributor" a lot. Be sure "who" that is.
ETA: At bottom of their home page, today, they say they have published 27 books. Given the time fundraising probably takes, that's not necessarily a bad statistic but it is small enough you could reasonably ask the authors and check around for their books. See the books sales ranking on the big sites, the advertising campaigns and if on bookstore shelves. Startups get press; an article in mainstream press might be just that versus that publication (published by a different publsher) endorsing them.
Claiming to be Inkshares CEO account answers Victoria, emphasis mine: "... Our contract is life-of-copyright, which suits most authors. But if this got in the way of the author's procurement of another deal, we'd likely waive that right." (forum comment, not necessarily worded that way in the contract authors sign/agree so check the wording carefully.). Victoria responds "...It's good that you're willing to consider letting authors go. But that's at your discretion, and authors can't count on it--plus, it's probably a moot point since I doubt that another publisher would be willing to make an offer if it wasn't sure the rights were free (since most publishers ask for exclusivity). Also, as I read your non-competition language, authors are barred from publishing or self-publishing any new edition while your edition is still in print. And the contract is life-of-copyright. So really, authors can't just walk away.
I don't have a problem with life-of-copyright contracts in principle (though I think that for smaller presses, a time-limited contract is preferable) However, a life-of-copyright grant MUST be balanced by a detailed, specific reversion clause that ties "out of print" and rights reversion to sales minimums. Would you be willing to share your reversion language with us? "
After presumed CEO account commented "we're in the "integration" phase with Ingram and will have full-fledged distribution services through them at the end of October (I just setup two of our books through CoreSource) We worked with Mark Ouimet and Gonzalo Ferrero to setup the deal." account Old Hack questions that saying "As I understand it, CoreSource only deals in digital distribution. (http://www.ingramcontent.com/pages/di... )It doesn't give you distribution for your printed editions. "
Great sleuthing! I just emailed the contact address so I'll let you know what / if I hear from them.
Martha wrote: "Great sleuthing! I just emailed the contact address so I'll let you know what / if I hear from them."Plus anything their 27 publshed authors and random hopefuls might share with you ;)
( some are goodreads authors but may or may not be that active here if you don't see an easier/preferred contact method on their author pages elsewhere. It might be nice to know what the reversion clauses they negotiated are and how the fundraising and editing parts went -- and if was a first novel from an author with no following or one who brought their following with them to Inkshares.)
ETA: I'm still not finding anything listing anyone other than Ingram as the distributor, including Inkshares home page. No more internet sleuthing from me -- just popped into goodreads to check on a stalled team challenge (still stalled so off again).
Martha wrote: "I hit the motherlode: https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/..."That's a publicly viewable group that includes Inkshare employees and authors using Inkshares plus anyone who wants to join. Moderated by Inkshare.
If you get any formal/staff answers there -- particularly about stuff like contract details -- I'd suggest you make sure to screenshot, print out to keep a record and hit all the wayback machine type of archives to make sure that URL gets cached. If there are ever any contract disputes later over something like being distributed to bookstores or getting them to waive their life-of-copyright terms ...
Might get a different or more specific answer chatting with a few authors less publicly than in the likely-pro-Inkshare group -- or from ones not even joining the goodreads group. Might be quicker or slower to get an answer from Inkshare personnel (I know you already emailed them but you might catch someone online...)
Keep in mind that only possibly 27 of those group members have achieved fundraising goals to publish a book via Inkshares (unless the number on Inkshares just hasn't been updated).
Debbie,That's a good idea, though you lost me with "hit all the wayback machine type of archives."
At this point I'm just curious, and trying to figure out what this new type of publishing has to offer. I've had one novel published traditionally (St. Martin's Minotaur) and one I published under my own imprint, and I'm curious about how the publishing world is changing. I selfishly want to do what's best for me. :)
The cache or archive sites which preserve post or site page as originally appeared plus on any future dates that got archived). The Wayback Machine at https://archive.org/web/ was one one of the first so the nickname carries across to http://cachedview.com, google cache, etc. -- not trying to advertise or endorse one over the other.Most stuff ( including goodreads comments) can be edited after the fact. So some posts answering a question, making a promise, clarifying a contract or legal issue, or just blowing your fuse -- might get altered later. Then some yay-hoo is blogging how innocent they were and never said that and you cannot prove it. Or worse, someone got some legal issue answered one way with no documentation and finds when revisiting that URL the post is missing or now says the opposite ...
Screenshots are your friend. So are the Internet cache/archive sites documenting what page used to say.
It's an insurance policy (cover your ass) habit to visit and enter a currently important URL on those sites to have a record of what was said.
Screenshots are very good for the court of public opinion if nothing else (and can make for interesting blog posts over some blowups folk try to pretend never occurred ...). Emails and cache proof can also help document. Copyrights issues and assignments and reverting .... I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir when I say those are very important issues. Not being happy with sales or promised distribution or getting scammed for services is even a far cry from not being able to publish your book elsewhere if dissatisfied or something happens with publisher.
@Kelly, Inkshares is just preorder. I was just drawing a comparison with the voting on Kindle Scout, in that you make no royalties from that phase.@D.A. Debbie, It means they distribute through Ingram Publishing Services and have a sales rep - which just distributing through Ingram (like through Spark) won't get you. Still, no one can guarantee it will be on shelves. If the sales rep chooses not to push it, it won't get sold, and yes, it will likely be on a small number of shelves - even at B&N if Inkshares makes the semiannual trip to Ingram to visit with the B&N rep like my first publisher. The IPS relationship could mean 100-500 total bookstore preorders - if they push pre-pub vs. post-pub, which should be their schedule, but I'm not clear on that. I don't believe I asked them that, since they were just in the throes of finalizing then...
@Martha, thanks for the clarification on the 250! Definitely lower than I remembered :-)
I also didn't remember giving up your right for the life of the copyright. That is a detractor IMO. But I can understand their financial motivation.
L.G. wrote: "...I also didn't remember giving up your right for the life of the copyright. That is a detractor IMO. But I can understand their financial motivation. ..."That's not something I'm sure of. It's actually good that presumably authors can negotiate individual contracts rather than agreeing to the one on the site. But, "life of contract" is something I wanted to caution in case true because an author on that forum I know to be experienced with publishing contracts read it that way (an older forum post from an account saying from Inkshares may or may not be a valid source for confirmation). If forum answer is really from CEO, I suspect an author's lawyer reviewing contract would want that in writing, want to depend on more than an outdated forum post saying author could always walk away because Inkshare would "... likely waive those rights."
And authors could be 100% happy with Inkshares with Inkshares 100% legit and doing a great job -- and still have reasons for later wanting rights back. If and how probably should be spelled out.
Here's what the Inkshares rep emailed to me:"We have a team of sales reps at IPS who actively sell Inkshares books into bookstores across the US (and some Canadian stores), meaning that they present titles several times in person with booksellers. To date, Inkshares books have been sold into over 200 bookstores (Barnes and Noble counts as one bookstore).
Please note that books published through Quill, the 250 pre-order tier, are listed in Ingram's catalogue but are not actively sold by the sales reps."
Does anyone have any experience with them? Thanks!