Austenesque Lovers TBR Pile Reading Challenge 2016 discussion
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Group Read- May
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Hopefully everyone who wishes to has had the opportunity to obtain a copy of the book for the read.
This story is novella length and reads quickly so I thought I'd begin the discussion a little earlier than with our first book. I have noticed that some have started and some have finished already (way to go, guys!) Feel free to discuss and ask your own questions and remember that participation in the discussions is voluntary and you can respond in full or in part- whatever meets your comfort level.
First Impression: Your anticipation thoughts going into reading Lady Susan. This would include cover art, title, blurb, prior discussions and reviews. Why did you want to read it? What level was your anticipation?
Have you learned any background information on the book either through another source or an introduction? What's your opinion of epistolary style writing?
First Date: Your thoughts and beginning impressions through the first few chapters. Did the opening grab you? Austen's writing voice? Pace? Impression after your intro to characters? Ability to see a clear thread to the storyline?
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I've wondered about the connection between Jane Austen's letters and Lady Susan's 'letters'. I haven't read much of JA's letters recently and haven't read Lady Susan in years so maybe I'll have to catch up on Austen's letters after Lady Susan. Nice point, Anji!
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There was a delightful introduction to my book talking about the background of Lady Susan and that was helpful- when it was written and how it got published. How Austen might have felt about it and why she didn't attempt it's publication. All built up my anticipation more.
I wanted to read it because of the movie tie in, but also because it's been over twenty years since the last time I read it and I wanted a refresher.
I don't mind epistolary style writing and don't see it much so it's still a curiosity for me, but I do find it tricky to stay engaged b/c it can be distracting. We'll see how I do with it in this latest attempt.
And now I begin with great anticipation.... :)
Thanks for the notice to the group about this group read, Sophia. I'm in!
Sophia wrote: "I saw it, Talia!Isn't that funny? Great minds think alike I guess. That reminds me that I forgot to send out a message to get this readalong started. I'll have to mention the other so people can ..."
I was thinking of doing the both at once because it would be too fun.
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I downloaded a kindle version. I have a bit of a difficult time remembering who all of the characters are. I don't have any background information on the book or Jane's personal letters, and I wonder if my ignorance is causing me some disadvantage to keeping things clear.
I'm looking forward to this read but it'll be a couple of days until I can start. I'm reading one for another challenge and I've had a busy weekend, My Uncle was home from England for the weekend to celebrate his 100th birthday, So as you can imagine didn't get much reading time the last few days. I haven't read it before so it'll be great to have it as a first read.
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I don't think you'll be at a disadvantage without the intro Paige. It was nice to read, but not essential to the story. This was one of her unpublished works so it will read a lot rougher than her finished novels and it's got a much looser and meandering plot as a result. We can all be confused together. Haha!
Paige you don't need to know anything about Jane's letters. People are just making comparisons. But if you haven't read the letters (which most people haven't) it won't make any difference to the reading of this book. Approach it as you would any novel of Austen's and ENJOY!!!!!!
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Monica wrote: "I'm about 10 letters in so far and am just starting to piece together the relationships between the characters. Lady Susan seems a horrible mother! Also a shameless brazen hussy. lol I'm wondering ..."I am only a couple of letters in, but already the horrible mother thing is coming out.
Favorite line so far comes in letter IV:"My Dear Sister, - I congratulate you and Mr. Vernon on being about to receive into your family the most accomplished coquette in England."
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First Impression (well, in my case, perhaps it's more accurately a Second Impression): The cover of my kindle book is as plain as can be. It's just lettering- pretty blah. I have read this before, but it was a few years ago. Aside from remembering that the character of Lady Susan herself is quite unlikeable, I don't recall details of the plot. I'm not certain when I would have re-visited it if it hadn't been a part of this group read. Interestingly, the last book I read that used epistolary style was Jane Austen's Love and Friendship, which is part of her juvenalia. Between the fact that she was still learning her craft and that it's a full-out parody, it's a bit of an apples-and-oranges comparison. The only other one I can think of is Daddy Long Legs. That one is also different, since it's all one-sided- by the same correspondent to the same recipient- while this has letters written by different characters to different recipients. Again, it would be trying to compare apples and oranges to try to look at that in contrast to Lady Susan.
First Date (for the Second Time!): I love how quickly Jane Austen establishes Lady Susan's character within the first two letters. The first, to her brother Mr. Vernon, is obnoxiously sweet yet pushy in essentially demanding that she visit. "I am determined, you see, not to be denied admittance at Churchill. It would indeed give me most painful sensations to know that it were not in your power to receive me." The second, to her good buddy Mrs. Johnson, has a completely different tone and proves that she has lied blatantly to her brother about her circumstances, having told him that her current hosts want her to stay but they're more socially active than she would like, when she's actually leaving Langford under duress after wreaking havoc on the entire household. Lady Susan states she really has no place else where she would be welcome, so she's obviously burned a number of bridges in the past.
As I read this time, I kept reminding myself that this story was written by a relatively sheltered, unmarried, very young woman in the late 1700s. It's surprising how worldly a voice she is able to give Lady Susan, and almost shocking that a 20-year-old daughter of an Anglican rector would be able to write so convincingly about a woman having an affair with a married man and shamelessly flirting with others.
The third letter, from Lady Susan's brother's wife to her mother, confirms that the lady coming to visit them has quite the scandalous reputation.
What fun!
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Thanks for sharing, Debbie!
Great feedback, Debbie! I’ve been thinking a lot about lately about why Jane Austen favored the epistolary style so much when she was young. It certainly wasn’t the only option available to her. My thought is that she was much preoccupied with the comedic possibilities to be found in many people’s lack of self-reflection. She seems to enjoy letting people betray their vanities and self-delusions through the things they say. (Think of Mrs. Elton, Fanny Dashwood, etc. etc.) And since an epistolary novel is entirely made up of what people say, without a narrator to give us perspective, it may have seemed like the best vehicle for her comedy.Lady Susan may be where she began to feel the limits of the epistolary style, though, and maybe we can all discuss that as we go along. I think we experience it (and other juvenilia in the same style) as sounding especially harsh because there is no narrator to temper things or provide a “safe space” of rationality where the reader can experience the egotism or foolishness of the characters.
It is certainly a wonder that a young woman, practically a girl, who had lived in a small rural parsonage could convey not only the world of the haut ton but also the worldview of an adventuress clinging to the fringes of that world! Some sharp eyes on that gal.
Debbie wrote: "First Impression (well, in my case, perhaps it's more accurately a Second Impression): The cover of my kindle book is as plain as can be. It's just lettering- pretty blah. I have read this before, ..."Interesting, I never thought about how young she was when she wrote this,
Abigail wrote: "Great feedback, Debbie! I’ve been thinking a lot about lately about why Jane Austen favored the epistolary style so much when she was young. It certainly wasn’t the only option available to her. My..."I like your thoughts on the epistolary style. Jane was such a great dialogist, and it comes out in the epistolary style.
Thanks, Ahnya! Her juvenilia make me want to write an epistolary novel to see if doing so would improve my dialogue skills.
First Impression: I wanted to read this for the group read discussion as well as the upcoming movie. I have the Kindle edition so as previously noted the cover is not enticing at all.I have zero experience with JA's earlier works and I am a bit confused as to the relationship between Lady Susan and Love and Friendship. I know the movie is called Love and Friendship but is about Lady Susan.. so are these two writings linked or is that just the movie makers taking liberties?
First Date: I am through seven letters. I was initially surprised at the epistolary style and with zero knowledge of the story I found it a little difficult to make sense of who was who. I think I might re-read the first few letters now that I have a better understanding so I can better appreciate them. Lady Susan is quite devilish and I am enjoying the cast of characters so far.
I don't know why the movie people did this, but my understanding is that the film is actually Lady Susan with no element of the book Love and Friendship - they are two very very different plot lines. No idea why they decided to call the movie Love and Friendship. Makes no sense to me!
Maybe they thought Love and Friendship would sound more appealing. I'm not saying I agree with changing it, but it's all about marketing the movie.
No Love & Friendship in the movie... Only Lady Susan. Not sure but I'm sure we can find out online.
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I have zero ..."
Yes, I agree, Shannon! This is confusing the first time through when you aren't sure of who is who and what's going on. But yes, she is a devil. :)
Shannon wrote: "First Impression: I wanted to read this for the group read discussion as well as the upcoming movie. I have the Kindle edition so as previously noted the cover is not enticing at all.I have zero ..."
seeing the movie will help, that way you have a visual when rereading lady susan
Anji wrote: "I'm three letters in so far. Having recently read a collection of Jane Austen's own letters, the style of Lady Susan reminds me very much of the author's own. In both sets, from what I've read of L..."I started reading Lady Susan yesterday and also got through three letters to date. It may be my 21st Century Eyes, but I got a sense of irony coming through from the letters. It struck me that JA was hanging Lady Susan out to dry...scoffing at her pretensions without a word...sort of like Murrow letting McCarthy skewer himself with his own words. The letter from Mrs Vernon to Lady deC also gave us a foreshadowing of another Lady who felt that the world moved to her command.
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That is a good observation, Don. I don't know enough about the background of this one, but I would imagine a young Jane was pretty spirited and would enjoy taking stabs at different characters in her writings. And their folly and traits seem more pronounced since the letters are so personal.
Glad you could join in the group read! :)
I'm only a few letters in. The epistolary style is quite an adjustment. I reread all of the letters again to get a better sense of who the characters are to each other, etc. Lady Susan is certainly a force to be reckoned with. She writes her letters in a way that will ensure everything works to her advantage, but somehow manages to make it seem like all of the responsibility for it belongs solely to the other person. She is quite manipulative. Having said that, I can definitely "see" the style of the older Jane's writing emerging in this work.
I love this story because it's so different from Austen's other books and the epistolary style is something she favored early in her writing, so seeing this story in this structure is wonderful. Scholars claim "Pride & Prejudice" and "Sense & Sensibility" were originally written in this structure, but "Lady Susan" is one of the only original manuscripts they have in Austen's own hand. They've never found the original transcripts for her novels... Weep!I think she learned through this process and her early writing that this format has its drawbacks, such as the ones discussed here and she chose to rewrite "P&P" and "S&S" as narratives to bring to life the elements we feel are lacking here.
Still a gem though!
I'm only starting this tonight. I'm all behind this month. And I get frustrated when I don't get enough time to read. I've never read an epistolary novel so this should be interesting. I took note of a few comments here so I think I'm read for it now. So without further ado........
Sophia wrote : "Glad you could join in the group read! :)
Grading 5 sets of final exams over next two weeks...so...we'll see if I get deeper into Lady S.
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That's fine, Teresa! You're not really behind. Last time, I didn't get to start for two weeks in, either. This one is shorter. Oh boy, enjoy the letter-style story. It will be a fun change for you. ;)
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Glad you could join in the group read! :)
Grading 5 sets of final exams over next two weeks...so...we'll see if I get deeper into Lady S."
Yikes! That will definitely keep you busy. This is a low key group read so slip a 'letter' in here and there as you go. :)
OK finished it! Found it a really easy read and enjoyed the 'epistolary' side of it. My but Jane Austen could write!! It's hard to believe she was so young when she wrote this. It makes me think that she must have based Lady Susan on some person or persons she knew. Surely she could never have created this being. I'm with who ever said, that it's a pity she never revised it and published it in her own time. Looking forward to the film now to see how Lady Susan will transcribe on to the screen. I'm going to go on and read 'The Watsons'.
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I've just started and I've already changed my mind about epistolary novels. This is insanely funny! Why am I just now reading it?!
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It’s amazing how little Jane Austen’s so-called lesser works are read—they’re full of treasures!
Abigail wrote: "It’s amazing how little Jane Austen’s so-called lesser works are read—they’re full of treasures!"Yes! One of leaders of the local JASNA, a scholar with books on teaching three of Austen's novels, hadn't read Lady Susan until four of us "performed it"(read it off a script thank goodness) a couple of years ago. And everyone who loves Jane Austen should read her "History of England"(calling PBS...one hour adaptation please!).
I finished Lady Susan and greatly enjoyed it. I enjoyed the part about Miss Mainwaring at the end lol. Lady Susan really was something. I couldn't believe she still tried to talk her way out of trouble in Letter 35 when her motives and actions came to light. I can see how making a movie on this could be difficult. The characters have great personalities but there are definitely gaps in the story that you have to use your imagination for. I am very interested to see how this movie turns out.
Teresa wrote: "OK finished it! Found it a really easy read and enjoyed the 'epistolary' side of it. My but Jane Austen could write!! It's hard to believe she was so young when she wrote this. It makes me think th..."I was just thinking the same thing this morning as I was reading. It would not surprise me at all to learn that she based the character on someone/someones, or gossip she heard.
I'm about halfway through, and I keep thinking it's like watching a train wreck. I'm not talking about Jane Austen's writing. I mean Lady Susan and the trail of devastation that follows everywhere she goes. She would be a modern-day reality TV show producer's dream.
Amanda wrote: "I'm about halfway through, and I keep thinking it's like watching a train wreck. I'm not talking about Jane Austen's writing. I mean Lady Susan and the trail of devastation that follows everywhere ..."lol
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I am floored as others have been of her maturity as a writer at the age of 20 to write Lady Susan. This was my second time reading it and oh the difference 25 years make in how much I enjoyed it and caught more nuances than the first time through. I wish that ending hadn't been as rushed, but as it was an unpublished piece I'm guessing it would have been cleaned up more if she planned to sell it to a publisher.
Now I am thirsty for the movie. And after reading the other unfinished pieces I need to dig out completed versions of both The Watsons and Sanditon. :)
I finished Lady Susan last night. It was an enjoyable read. Lady Susan and her friend Mrs. Johnson are two peas in a pod, aren't they? Between the two of them, they could have brought down the British Empire with all their scheming. I was glad for a (mostly) happy ending for the others.
The narrative ending to Lady Susan seems to me almost like JA noting down how the ending would go, with a thought that she would eventually come back to the book and flesh it out. I’ve heard she did some work on it around 1805, but never expanded it into a full novel. Would have loved to have read some of the scenes that are summarized at the end!I like to imagine that if she had not become ill and died in her early forties, she might have returned to this story, and to The Watsons, as a mature woman. Would have loved both of those books!
Austenesque Lovers TBR Pile Reading Challenge 2016
Books mentioned in this topic
Love and Freindship (other topics)Daddy Long Legs (other topics)
Lady Susan (other topics)
Emma and Elizabeth (other topics)
Brinshore (other topics)
Isn't that funny? Great minds think alike I guess. That reminds me that I forgot to send out a message to get this readalong started. I'll have to mention the other so people can do both if they want. :)