The Twelve by Justin Cronin

[Janice, Moderator]

Cherie wrote: "Back to this one tonight!

On my Nook ebook, there are 676 pages. Chapter 31 is on page 325. I just added a book mark to see if I could get a percentage, and it does not show. The bookmark shows C..."

My library downloads ebooks & audiobooks through Overdrive. So far I haven't had any problems. They now have 3M available but I haven't tried it yet.

[Sarah]

I meant it would get people wanting to read the spoiler, not the book. But I guess it might work (or not) for the book too :-)

[Cherie]

Well, you got me to read the spoilers anyway, Sarah! Nothing wrong with me!

[Sarah]

Cherie wrote: "Well, you got me to read the spoilers anyway, Sarah! Nothing wrong with me!"

lol :-)

I'm off work again today so I'll br cracking on with Part 7, The Outlaw today and hopefully more.

[Sarah]

I was thinking that the expeditionary force are an army so could be used for the China, Great Wall task?

[Sarah]

Part 7 Outlaws generally (view spoiler)[So it looks like people from Peter's original colony may well have been taken by Guilder and Lila's crew. Everyone is coming together. Hollis. And now off to find Tifty.

I felt for Grey beung taunted by his captors and Guilder. Kept naked and tied up for a century with only a few drops of blood a day. It looks like Zero has stopped speaking ti him although he can still hear him. I wonder if this means Zero has taken Guilder as his familiar. I wonder if this is possible.

Grey was taking steroids to reduce his sexual desires so perhaps that's why his strain aren't interested in sex. Now i'm curious about the other strands.

Alicia is no longer trusting herself with the horse. Has she got a taste for flesh/blood? I hope not. Alicia kicks ass at Guilder's base saving the people about to be fed on by virals. Was she got bad by the flamethrower? I'm guessing not.

I'm worried about Amy now she's bleeding. What does it mean?

Her and Lila can both control virals and do the sleep thing. I wonder if it's a female thing. (hide spoiler)]

Sara in Chapter 45 (view spoiler)[So from what i recall, Sara was pregnant when she was taken. She didn't want her captors to know so lied that she'd ever been pregant. She was thinking about her unborn cuild or the while. She gave birth. There was blood. But she was told the baby was dead and it was taken away from her. She didn't get to see it. Told it was a girl, the nurse gave her a lock of it's hair. She named her Kate. Now we know it wasn't dead but Lila had taken her on as her own. Called Eva for the daughter she once lost. At least she didn't eat her like i thought. (hide spoiler)]

[Janice, Moderator]

Sarah wrote: "I was thinking that the expeditionary force are an army so could be used for the China, Great Wall task?"

Yes, it's also a chunkster so could be used for that task as well.

[Janice, Moderator]

Sarah wrote: "Part 7 Outlaws generally ..."

(view spoiler)[ That's a good point about Grey taking drugs to reduce his sex drive.

Re: Lila and Amy doing the mind control thing... it's always been an attribute of vampires going back to the original Dracula, which is the "handbook" Alicia cited in one of the books. Still, some things are different. They don't seem to be affected by garlic and crosses. (hide spoiler)]

[Janice, Moderator]

Sarah wrote: "Sara in Chapter 45 (view spoiler) .."

I might have to read over that part. Or just leave it and pay more attention when I do a reread of the series.

[Ariane]

So, I have listened a bit more and I just finished chapter 49. So far, (view spoiler)[ Finally, everybody is coming to the same place, so I guess we'll have some reunion in the end of this book or in the next.
I feel sorry about Sarah; what she has been through and how people used her, even Nina, even if she tries to do the right thing anyway. Sarah is the one who gets through a lot.
About Amy, what does Carter want her to do?
I didn't remember the connection Wolgast had with Carter but I remember now their conversation in the car, so I understand why he becomes his familiar, it makes sense.
I still don't get the difference in the powers of all of them and why they have it, I don't understand why Amy and Lila have the same, I guess I'll find out later. (hide spoiler)]
I hope to finish it by tomorrow, i want to know more!

[Sarah]

Finished The Outlaw section (up to ch 48)(view spoiler)[Well the peter v sheila fight in the cage wasn't intense as i thought it was going to be. I was fraught at first and on the edge of my seat. So I'm wondering if everyone can loook a viral in the eye, calm them, appeaal to their human soul and easily kill them or whether this is something Peter can do because of his connection (whatever it is) to Amy. Although now I've had a wild thought that he might be Alicia's familiar. Anyway, I'm thinking that Tifty's men find themselves all gobbled up if they try Peter's trick. We'll see.

Tifty and his organisation are interesting. Trade is a front. Studying virals and learning ways to kill them. Nice one.

Amy's dream with The olgast and Carter was a bit weird. It's clearly Carter's memories of meeting Rachel and the day of her death. I'm guessing they are all meeting in this memory as it's easier to talk mind to mind with Amy being unwell?! Wolgast is Carter's but not his familiar. Locked him in the ship so he can't kill no more. Good move. So Zero is summoning Amy. I wonder if that is why she is ill, resisting him. But they are going to go. It doesn't sound good though. (hide spoiler)]

You've caught up with us quickly Ariane! I'm just starting chapter 49 so I'll hold off reading your spoiler for now.

[Cherie]

Sarah wrote: "I was thinking that the expeditionary force are an army so could be used for the China, Great Wall task?"

I have mine on the post-apocalyptic genre under South Africa, but I think it could go where you are indicating. It could also be used as a >500 pages task under China, Great Wall or the series task for Senegal.

I didn't think about it, but since I re-read The Passage. I could use it for the post-apocalyptic and The Twelve for either of the China, Great Wall tasks. I have The Poisonwood Bible for the >500 pages and another book picked out for the army, but then I would not have to read one of them. Hmmm. Hard to decide, huh?

[Janice, Moderator]

Don't forget that The Twelve counts for slaves. Sarah listed the possible tasks for it on her geocache page.

[Ariane]

Ch57 (view spoiler)[ so now, I think Alicia is Amy's familiar. That makes sense. We'll see why zero is calling back all the twelve; is it something to do with Michael's theory that the viral are dying? (hide spoiler)]
I'm on holiday, so I can listen to it while doing my laundry... and I want to know what's happening!

[Sarah]

Janice wrote: "Sarah listed the possible tasks for it on her geocache page."

Yep. I'm on it!

[Cherie]

Good grief, I just noticed that the long post I wrote last night did not get added. Darn! I had three different spoilers.

I am currently reading Chapter 45, in book 7, I think.

[Janice, Moderator]

Don't you hate when that happens, Cherie?

[Ariane]

So, I finished it. I liked it, a bit less than the first one but it's because I have even more questions now than before. It is still a 4 stars anyway.

(view spoiler)[ First, I liked the final battle and the end of Guilder and his freaks.
I'm glad Alicia doesn't die and find herself a new purpose and I guess that's what the third book will be about; track down and kill Zero?
I am also glad that Lila finally get her mind right and "saves" Grey.
I don't know what happens with Amy. Is she alive? does she see the dead or is she dead too? Because if so, she doesn't know it because she thinks she'll see Peter again. I guessed they were in love since Peter told the chauffeur that someone was waiting for him, back home. I guess that's why Amy has to age, too. Because otherwise, that would be awkward.
(hide spoiler)]

I liked Scott Brick's voice and thought it went well with the biblical tone of the book.
I'll get that final book and will be in the buddy read because I want to know how it ends!

[Janice, Moderator]

Ariane wrote: "So, I finished it. I liked it, a bit less than the first one but it's because I have even more questions now than before. It is still a 4 stars anyway. ..."

I liked this one more because some of the gaps have been filled in. Yes, there are more questions now going into the final book. I'm anxious for it's release.

Amy - (view spoiler)[ I'm not sure what kind of a state she's in. I don't think she's dead, but she's in some kind of state. Her corporal body seems to have been vaporized with the bomb. But, she did appear to Peter after the battle. Maybe she's transforming again, into something more human, especially if the intention is for her and Peter to have a relationship. It's a bit confusing.

When I was considering all this, the next question just has to be asked. If she can transform, why do we assume the others are dead and not also transforming? (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah]

I'm not far off finishing. Ive not had chance to read anything today. Hopefully tomorrow. On the whole, i think I've enjoyed this one more but i loved the first one. I think it will end ip being another 5 star for me when I'm done.

[Cherie]

Yes, Janice and I am not even sure I remember my questions. I think I may have gotten an answer, with further reading.

I keep thinking about Grey. (view spoiler)[How horrible to have been locked up and used as a blood source for all those years. If they did not have him, would they become a full viral and need to eat humans? Who turned Grey? I cannot remember. I still do not understand dopeys vs virals. How are they different? (hide spoiler)]

Book 7 end of ch 48 (view spoiler)[ Amy is going through her first menses. I do not understand Carter, down in the hold in the ship. "They will kill us both." What? Who? Does he want to mate with her? Is she going to become a full viral? I want to know what happened to Alicia! (hide spoiler)]

There is so much going on! I wish there was an index to keep track of all the names and places. It is as bad as The Game of Thrones!

[Sarah]

Re you're first spoiler Cherie (view spoiler)[ I don't think Guilder etc are vampires at all. They are refered to as red eyes. I actually think they are humans feeding on viral blood. I might be wrong though. Maybe Grey did turn them. Lila is different as she was turned by Grey. Zero turned Grey. As for dopeys, they are Carter's virals. They only kill out of necessity because they've inherited Carter's gentleness and passivity whilst the other virals are more predatory due to their makers. That's my take anyway. (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah]

Second spoiler (view spoiler)[The bit in the ship was a little confusing for me too. At that point, we don't know what they are going to do, who wants to kill them etc. That will become clear later. Pretty sure Carter doesn't want to mate with her. I never got that vibe. He cares for her. Wolgast is one of his and i guess Carter can sense Wolgast's love for her and therefore feels it too. he Is on her side rather than the other, psychotic members of the twelve. Again, my take. (hide spoiler)]

I agree about a list of characters, in particular how caharecters relate to each other, whose familar is whose. However, if we knew that all forms om the start, the book wouldn't be so good. I've haf fun guessing whose familiar is whose.

[Cherie]

I can't read the spoilers right now, Sarah, but you are probably right about the list. In GoT, it was not that hard, maybe because of the way GRRM wrote the chapters. It just feels harder to keep up with in TP and TT. I think it is more plot driven (we don't know what is going to happen, until much later) and the action is driving the characters. I felt I knew the characters better in GoT, but then, maybe it was only after I had read all of the books.

Ok- back to reading! Ch 49...

[Sarah]

I agree that it plot driven but i still feel connected to the characters and like i know them, some more than others sure.

[Janice, Moderator]

Sarah wrote: "I agree about a list of characters, in particular how caharecters relate to each other, whose familar is whose..."

There is a list at the end of The Twelved, broken down by time period/location. It's pretty basic, so light on the spoilers.

[Cherie]

I am at chapter 59. I am this close " " to wanting to just quit reading this book!

I have heart burn and a stress headache. It is how I felt when I got to the end of The Girl on the Train, but at least that one was done. (Different stress - I just wanted it to be over and had stayed up so late reading, to finish it.)

I'm taking a break to start my Andrew Grove book. Hopefully, it will be mind numbingly boring.

Yeah, I got my answer about Grey.

[Janice, Moderator]

You've come so far and you're almost done, Cherie. :)

[Cherie]

I'll be back. Curiosity will assure my finishing. I just needed a break.

The Andrew Grove book is not dull at all and feels very well written. He is only 5, but the book starts with an brief history of Hungary - what he calls, "some historical context". He was born in Budapest in 1936 and escaped to the West during the 13 day Hungarian Revolution in October of 1956.

[Sarah]

Good to hear about the list - i'll check it out when i'm done. I'm on part 11, The darkest night of yhe year. It's intense. I'll come back and comment when i have a bit more free time. Keep going Cherie, it is worth it.

[Ariane]

Janice wrote: "Amy - ."

Re Amy - (view spoiler)[ because she's always been different from the others, she never reacted the same way as the others, I think that makes sense. But I might be wrong, I guess we'll see but I feel like there's only Zero out now (hide spoiler)]

[Janice, Moderator]

Ariane wrote: "Janice wrote: "Amy - ."

Re Amy - [spoilers removed]"

That's the topic of the next book.

[Ariane]

Janice wrote: "Ariane wrote: "Janice wrote: "Amy - ."

Re Amy - [spoilers removed]"

That's the topic of the next book."

Oh, I haven't read that yet, sorry ;)

[Janice, Moderator]

No need to be sorry. :) You were correct in your speculation.

[Sarah]

I finished! It was so good. Some of the bits at the end were a little confusing but I guess these things will all become clear in the next book.

Part 8 & 9 (view spoiler)[Alicia went through quite the ordeal. Sod got what was coming to him.

I was holding my breath when Kate/Eva told Lila that she didn't like her. I was expected some fireworks. You just knew it was a matter of time before she gets sent to the basement. How Lila changed when with the virals was very strange. She was very maternal of them, she showed more affection for those than she did for Eva.

I was surprised when Vale stood up and blew himself up. Lila & Guilder survived by the bomb killed the virals and some other members of Guilder's staff. Guilder really has lost it now, more than he already had. I wasn't expecting Guilder to kill Wilkes. But then I am at the same time.

Amy meeting up with Alicia was interesting. She is now a woman. I guess that's why the chapter was called The Changeling. I personally don't understand what has happened to Amy. And why now? Was it a type of puberty? Is it because she answered the call of Zero? Is it the 12 diverging? Is it just evolution and this extra threat forced the change? I'm thinking this last one is the most likely.
(hide spoiler)]

Part 10 & 11 (view spoiler)[I was gutted at Sara's message in the egg. But then that all goes out the window when Sara is spotted. Sara sure has been through a lot. Now she is captured, tortured and sent to the basement. I guess she is going to be kept alive, under anasthetic/induced coma, and have her blood harvested.

Everyone is meeting up with each other now. Nina meets with Amy & Alicia plus insurgency. Amy & Alicia's conversation confused me. Alicia is giving up Peter? She states she knew there was someone else even before she met Amy. So Peter is in love with Amy? I knew that the ambush on Peter and co was going to be Alicia etc. I'm pleased he didn't shoot her fatally.

I was thinking Amy might have killed Guilder there and then when she admits to be Sergio but she has a deeper plan I guess. (hide spoiler)]

Part 11 to the end (view spoiler)[Guilder is such an ego maniac, planning to create a religion out of his system and he'll be the priest. I had to laugh when he put on the dress.

Lila seems to have become a bit more lucid and is off to find Grey and saves Sara in the process. Interesting that she mentions they were harvesting marrow from her hip bones particularly. Why bone marrow? I get blood because they are vampires. But bone marrow? I'm pleased she frees Grey from his suffering. She also saves her self from her suffering too. It's a shame she had to blow them both up in the process. I thought Lila letting Sara go might mess up Michael and Hollis's saving of her but they seemed to find each other ok even if Michael did get shot in the leg.

The stadium was really tense. Amy tied up. The 11 being freed. The crowd no longer under Guilder's control. Guilder dying as Grey dies. Amy's change which I was really upset about. what does this mean now? Will she be able to move between viral and human forms? I can't imagine viral Amy is very pretty to look at. But she kicks ass! Killing the other virals. So I'm of the understanding that Carter didn't turn up but Wolgast took his place. The bit with the bomb was crazy. I fully expected Peter to explode but Amy got in the way. Did all of the 12 die? Amy? Zero is still alive though as he wasn't there.

I just new that Nina was Tifty's daughter!

I was upset that Alicia was going to drink human blood for the first time then kill herself in the sunlight. But that didn't go according to plan. Off to kill Zero now. I'm guessing that will be no easy feat. We'll find out in the next book I suppose. Amy also mentioned to Greer about a Final battle for earth's dominion. Sounds ominous.

As Carter wasn't present at the stadium chaos, he must still be alive. In his ship? Amy is with him. This is the bit I don't get. The same car journey, garden, pool dreamscape as before. I don't think Amy is dead. Not sure about her body. Rachel was dead and Amy made her go. Wolgast was dead and she let him go and he could go join Lila and kid. That was my interpretation. She was able to guide the virals souls so I guess this is what she was doing. She's in love. So I guess that's Peter.
(hide spoiler)]

I know I've just ranted there but I thought I'd get all my thoughts out. I'm really looking forward to reading the next book.

[Janice, Moderator]

I thought there were more questions than answers in the last part of the book as well, Sarah. I'm eagerly awaiting the last book in hopes that we get those answers.

I recall one reviewer rated this book very low and talked about plot holes. I'm thinking those "plot holes" will be resolved in the last book. At least, I really hope they will be.

Re: Guilder (all you had to say and this is my only comment LOL!) (view spoiler)[ when he started donning his priest's gear - a shift from an attendant (as if nobody would recognize it as such), part of the curtain as a shawl, and the curtain sash as a belt, I thought that he likely looked ridiculous. I guess it symbolizes the depth of his depravity. (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

I finished last night. No time to rant or rave. I need to get to work!

[Sarah]

So when shall we read book 3 then? June?

[Janice, Moderator]

How about June 6th? I'm going away the weekend prior and headed home on the 6th. We'll be in the mountains with limited internet access, so buddy reading will be difficult.

[Sarah]

Sounds good to me!

[Janice, Moderator]

The buddy read for City of Mirrors has been posted.

[Cherie]

Oh, thanks for the dopey info Sarah. That makes sense! (view spoiler)[ they were virals, just not as aggressive. (hide spoiler)]

re: red-eyes. (view spoiler)[ Lila was a red-eye too, just like Guilder. I agree though, they are not virals. Grey become a full viral (like Wolgast) , but Guilder had kept him in the basement and only gave him small amounts of human blood. I cannot imagine that Grey could have produced enough blood for the red-eyes, that is why they had all of those humans in the basement. I think they were mixing Grey's blood and human blood and drinking it.

Alicia did not become a full viral until she drank the human blood. That is what I got out of it, at least. (hide spoiler)]

re:marrow (view spoiler)[ I did not get that either. But, supposedly all of that was blown up, in the gas explosion.

last chapter (view spoiler)[ I am not sure I got all of that in the last chapter. Alicia is a full viral now, but she did not attack Peter and Kate, right? I think Carter is still in the ship, but I am not sure Amy is with him. They are connected though and yes, Zero is still around somewhere. He is talking to Alicia and Greer, although Greer is still human. It was kind of sad and happy at the same time the way Wolgast went to through the door - to heaven, I guess? (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah]

Last chapter (view spoiler)[it wasn't alicia that showed herself at the end to peter and kate, but amy. It seems as virals, they retain elements of their personality. Amy loves Peter so i guess she wouldn't harm him and kate. She killed tge other members of the twelve too. (hide spoiler)]

[Janice, Moderator]

I thought that Carter (view spoiler)[ was dead, too. All twelve were in the stadium. Amy was one of the twelve. That's what I find so confusing. If she somehow survived/transformed (and it's apparent she did), then why were the other 11 completely destroyed? (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

Sarah wrote: "Last chapter [spoilers removed]"

re last chapter. (view spoiler)[ I don't know why I thought it was Alicia. Thanks. (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

Janice wrote: "I thought that Carter [spoilers removed]"

I guess that is one of the questions that will be answered in the next book. ;)

[Sarah]

Carter wasn't there (view spoiler)[it is mentioned that wolgast took his place. Carter hasn't spoken to the other twelve for years sovthey fan't read him. That's how wolgast was able to take his place (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah]

Carter (view spoiler)[is definitly alive at the end (hide spoiler)]

[Janice, Moderator]

Egad! It's obvious that I'm going to have to reread this.

I was reading one of the threads in the group specific to reading the trilogy - https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/.... Some of these people have read the books 3 and 4 times. There's so much depth.

Someone there suggested that a person keep a detailed timeline and character list as you read.

[Sarah]

I like the idea of keeping your own list of characters and how they connect as you go. I'm not one for rereads although there a some books which I think afterwards that I wouldn't mind experiencing again. I just haven't followed that through yet. I might with these though. You are right - there is so much depth and it's quite complex.