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The Lathe of Heaven
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February 2016 Group Read - The Lathe of Heaven
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Feb 01, 2016 08:45AM
This is to discuss February's group read The Lathe of Heaven by Ursula K. Le Guin
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It wasn't too long ago that I read this, so instead I'm going to read another LeGuin book that I HAVEN'T read, The Dispossessed, as well as Candy Man, which I nominated. For those who haven't read Lathe of Heaven, I hope you enjoy it! It's a good book, though very unlike her usual style. I think she was heavily influenced by Philip K. Dick at the time and it really shows in the writing and in terms of the concept.
This is my favorite SF book by LeGuin. I liked the PBS movie version of it, too.
One of the first LeGuin novels I ever read (before this I had read many short stories, including the excellent collection The Birthday of the World). It does have much more mind-messery and twilight zone-ish qualities than most of her other work, but without losing her sense of intimacy and with a touching relationship thrown into the mix. I absolutely loved this book; it got me thoroughly hooked onto UKL (now my favorite writer) and influenced me to read more Philip K. Dick as well.If you haven't seen the A&E adaptation it is worth seeing as well. Great acting, atmosphere, and musical score (by Angelo Badalamenti). Sadly the otherwise good adaptation is marred by that fact that it completely drop the last third of the book, leaving the film rather anti-climactic, thus why I still prefer the PBS version. It has dated qualities, but I find even those qualities charming.
The book is being processed for delivery :)Can't wait for starting to read it, it will be the first from this author, so I'm quite curious on the book. I guess reading so many critics and so many opinions, it made even more curious.
Well, after the first chapters I can say that it certainly is very different from last month's City of Illusions. With this variety, I wouldn't mind to use all of this year's group reads for LeGuin books.
This is for me her most underrated book. I just love the twists to "fixing" a problem. I also love the use of a sane man in a crazy world and and holding up the mirror to criticize society. I truly prefer the PBS version much more than the A&E version. The A&E version has much better production values, but is not nearly as good.
Papaphilly wrote: "This is for me her most underrated book. I just love the twists to "fixing" a problem. I also love the use of a sane man in a crazy world and and holding up the mirror to criticize society. ..."Absolutely. Haber's frustration is especially well done.
I heard that LeGuin didn't care for the A&E version, either. I never bothered to watch it. The PBS version, especially with the original music, was great. The low budget helped give it a grittiness that was perfect.
This is one of the cooler alien races out there. I like that it's not "humans plus a special ability" so much as "really different and super powerful in some ways, but not using power the way humans might." UKL going outside the box again.
I'm looking forward to this one. I really liked The Left Hand of Darkness. I understand Lathe of Heaven is not in UKL's usual style, and more in Philip K. Dick's style, but is highly readable .
Having read the previous comments I did wonder how Le Guin was going to write a book in a Philip K Dick Style. Now having read the first few chapters I have been enlightened. So far it is very similar to a PKD novel but definitely more coherent. Quite enjoying it so far.
I see the PKD comparison a bit, but it's distincly a LeGuin book for me. It has her characters, her tight plotting, and her sentence craft.
I read the first 20 pages of the book. I can see the PKD influence, such as the "What is reality?" trope and even PKD's approach to writing (minimal exposition, reliance on dialogue instead).The Wikipedia article on _The Lathe of Heaven_ says: ". Due to its portrayal of psychologically-derived alternative realities, it has often been described as Le Guin's tribute to Philip K. Dick.[7] In his biography of Dick, Lawrence Sutin described Le Guin as having "long been a staunch public advocate of Phil's talent". According to Sutin, "The Lathe of Heaven was, by her own acknowledgment, markedly influenced by his [Dick's] sixties works."[8]"
Definitely an enjoyable book. There were so many good ideas, if you compare it to a PKD book it's a lot better than most of his books. She uses similar ideas but plots them better so the whole book makes sense but without losing any of the intrigue or complexity.
Okay so I just finished this book and the last chapter has me a little confused. When he was going through the nightmare to get to Haber, he said he went on a walkway that he didn't see, an elevator powered by his will, do you think this is suggesting he has some sort of control while awake, or is it just that he's gone into the Haber's nightmare and he really is cured? Overall I loved this book really, I always seem to love the "lack of dialogue" of most books. I love the setting up, simply seeing the different worlds is an adventure to me in itself especially because eveyrthing was constantly changing. The rest reminds me a little of a superhero tv show kind of thing but reading it makes all the difference.
I'm glad that people like the books I nominate. Now if another book I nominated, Child of Fortune, can get more votes.....
I took it to mean he had some control while awake & in Haber's nightmare. He was never sick, the world was/is. He's a cure.
A sign of a good, or even great writer, is that he/she has a sense of humor. There is humor in this book. For example: "He wanted to know what Haber was doing . The first dream this afternoon, for example: Had the doctor merely told him to dream about the horse again? And he himself had added the horseshit, which was embarrassing. Or, if the doctor had specified the horseshit, that was embarrassing in a different way."
Le Guin, Ursula K. (2014-04-20). The Lathe of Heaven (pp. 38-39). Diversion Books. Kindle Edition.
I'm not much of a re-reader. The few books I have reread have many years between the readings. but now I'm rereading The Lathe of Heaven, which I first read about three years ago. It's so good it's worth rereading. I've just started.I agree, it is the kind of a story PKD would write, but that is the story, the premise of it. The style of prose is Ursula.
Original idea, struggling sympathetic George Orr, cool aliens. Discrete, fascinating book.
When George dreamed about the oppressive overcrowding, the Earth had a population of 7 billion. The population of the Earth now is more than 7 billion. There are problems, sure, due to so many people, but it doesn't seem oppressive. We just take it in stride.The population has doubled since this book was written in 1971.
This book is happening later than it was written, 1989 maybe? The problem with writing a near future book is that it can seem dated later because of the things that changed that the author didn't foresee, or the things that the author did foresee but that didn't happen. The things that are different from the way we know life, the society that we live in could be accounted for by Orr's effective dreams. It all could have happened in 1971 and still be quite different from the world we knew in 1971, all on account of Orr's dreaming. The book didn't need to be set in the future for the readers of 1971 - its divergence from the reality of the day could have been wholly attributed to Orr.
Buck wrote: "This book is happening later than it was written, 1989 maybe? The problem with writing a near future book is that it can seem dated later because of the things that changed that the author didn't f..."The idea is to give the story a bit of a surreal feel while still giving the feeling it is close to us.
Buck wrote: "When George dreamed about the oppressive overcrowding, the Earth had a population of 7 billion. The population of the Earth now is more than 7 billion. There are problems, sure, due to so many peop..."Not sure how old you are, but when the book was written, the population bomb was all the rage at the time. Paul R. Ehrlich had published The Population Bomb in 1968 predicting mass starvation during the 1970's and 1980's due to high amounts of populations. We are still here.
They were still talking about it in the 90s when I was in college.
I enjoyed reading this book very much. It reminded me of ideas I've encountered in Buddhism, Taoism, and Jane Roberts' mystical writings.My review, really some observations about this book rather than a literary review.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
I finished this today. I was listening to the audio book as I drove. The ending took me aback. I replayed it to make sure I heard what I thought I had heard. What a subtle little twist at the very end, I thought. Then I doubted that I had heard correctly. Later, when I got home, I downloaded the ebook and read the ending. The little twist wasn't there, so I played the end of the audio book again - There it is!*spoiler*
In the final version of reality, Orr's lost wife has come into the shop where he works. He sees her and talks with her. She remembers him, slightly, from having met him when he came to the law firm where she works, but she doesn't remember having been his wife. He asks her out for coffee. In print, the books next to last sentence reads, "He went out with Heather into the warm, rainy afternoon of summer."
In the audio book it clearly says, "He went out with Haber into the warm, rainy afternoon of summer."
I really like this book. I'm very glad I reread it.Wikipedia says of it: Due to its portrayal of psychologically-derived alternative realities, it has often been described as Le Guin's tribute to Philip K. Dick. In his biography of Dick, Lawrence Sutin described Le Guin as having "long been a staunch public advocate of Phil's talent". According to Sutin, "The Lathe of Heaven was, by her own acknowledgment, markedly influenced by his [Dick's] sixties works."
Ursula K Le Guin and Philip K Dick are both favorite authors of mine. The Lathe of Heaven is the best Philip K Dick novel that Philip K Dick never wrote.
must be a joke Buck - it makes no sense.
Leo wrote: "must be a joke Buck - it makes no sense."Here's how I figured it when I heard it: When Orr talked to Heather in the shop, he realized that she was not the same woman he had married, that his pining for her needed to end. After he asked her for coffee, but before they left, the last thing he did was to speak to his boss, the Alien. Do you remember the whole bit about the old Beatles song , the record he had given him, about getting a little help from your friends. And remember, Orr had told Haber that the Aliens understood the dream-reality connection. So, I just thought that his friend, the Alien, had intervened, had given him a little help, to help him get over Heather.
But why the audio book is different from the ebook? Who knows?
That's a wild idea, Buck. Still, I don't think he really wanted to get over her. I just listened to the end of my audio book (Blackstone, 1997, narrated by Susan O'Malley) & she does say he walks out with Haber. I believe she misread it. My paperback has the identical wording for the end save for the name.
Buck wrote: "In the audio book it clearly says, "He went out with Haber into the warm, rainy afternoon of summer." It's a mistake in the audio book script, and nobody's noticed for almost 20 years. Either that, or Buck is visiting us from a parallel universe where Orr does exit with Haber at the conclusion. As the creator of both universes, Buck gets to have the book both ways. But Buck, you've read this book. Don't you realize how using this godlike power can get you in trouble?
:-))
I read the Avon paperback which I bought in the 1970s (and read then also). It's dated as the first Avon printing, April 1973.
* spoiler *
At the end of the book Haber is occupying a locked cell in an insane asylum. He is catatonic. He's not taking any afternoon walks with anyone.
The Heather who comes into the shop at the end of the book isn't really the Heather that George married. (We're agreed on that.) There were different versions of Heather in each universe: only George was the constant, and probably Haber also. The last Heather was like the Black Widow, only softened, and she wasn't a lawyer but a legal secretary. Maybe the Alien intervened, or maybe we're watching something else at work. (I've had people I don't know show up unexpectedly to help me. Haven't you?) George has the choice of continuing to grieve, or of courting this woman who reminds him of his wife. She's widowed and probably lonely too. He chooses to change.
Another song to play at the end of this book, for George and Heather.
http://www.metrolyrics.com/where-or-w...
That's creative thinking Buck. But I think we can rely on the written version of the book as the correct one. I like CS' idea though of Buck having the same powers as Orr. Can you please try harder in your next dream, I was a little bit disappointed this morning when I arrived at work and the office was still there...
So, I dreamed last night, and now you are all different.
Ronald, your link just went to the book. Since we're not friends, I couldn't find yours among all the others.
Here we go:Back in the early 1980s, I saw the PBS adaptation of _The Lathe of Heaven_. I and my family members who saw it thought it was quite interesting.
_The Lathe of Heaven_ is a phildickian novel, with its "What is reality?" trope and even PKD's approach to writing (minimal exposition, reliance on dialogue instead).
George Orr is a man who can dream things into being. He is a decent guy--he is so concerned about the consequences of his power that he tries to prevent himself from dreaming. But preventing oneself from dreaming is unhealthy. He see a psychiatrist named Dr. Haber. Dr. Haber, realizing George's power, decides to play God. George, realizing that he is being exploited, enlists the help of an attorney.
This is a cautionary tale against grand scale social engineering. In the novel, for example, Dr. Haber suggests to George to dream of a word without over-population. After George's dream, the world no longer has a population problem because of a devastating plague. Dr. Haber suggests to George a world where people are not warring against each other. After George's dream, humans are not warring against each other, because they have set aside their differences in order to defend against alien attacks.
George experiences loss. In one universe, he and his attorney become romantically involved. After a dream, she became a stranger. The last part of this novel reminded me of the movie _Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind._
Although there are genre writers who have a better prose style than Philip K. Dick, I think Dick's prose style was OK. Le Guin, though, is a better stylist than Dick.
There is some humor in the book. For example, "He wanted to know what Haber was doing . The first dream this afternoon, for example: Had the doctor merely told him to dream about the horse again? And he himself had added the horseshit, which was embarrassing. Or, if the doctor had specified the horseshit, that was embarrassing in a different way."
Ronald wrote: "George experiences loss. In one universe, he and his attorney become romantically involved. After a dream, she became a stranger."*Spoiler*
Did people notice ULG's pun on "black widow"? When we are introduced to Heather, she is an attorney with a personality like a black widow spider. She "thought of herself as a Black Widow...hard, shiny, and poisonous; waiting, waiting." Heather is figuratively a black widow. At the end of the book, when another (mellower) version of Heather meets George in the store, she is an Afro-American woman who has lost her husband, literally, a "black widow." I thought this conversion of Heather's character was so dream-like, and pun-ny, the way dreams can be.
Finally was able to read this awesome book.Lovely story that make us think on how imperfectly perfect humans are and how our imperfections make us human.
Thank you for the suggestion.
The Evolution of Science Fiction
Books mentioned in this topic
The Population Bomb (other topics)The Lathe of Heaven (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Paul R. Ehrlich (other topics)Ursula K. Le Guin (other topics)
