73 Appendix - Discuss the appendix and the book as a whole

[Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister]

Discuss

[Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister]

I found the appendix useful from time to time.

~The freakin' book kicked ass! Five stars from me.

[Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister]

It has been about 12 hours since I finished the book. I am still feeling happy, happy, joy, joy about the book and I can't wait for A Clash of Kings.

This was my first read although I watch the show. After Ria's comment on a previous chapter it got me thinking of you re-readers.

To the people who have just finished this as a re-read:

~Did you learn any new info this go around?
~Did parts get boring because you knew too much?
~Did you see things differently because of what you knew?
~How likely are you to read it yet again?

[Ria]

These are interesting questions.
- I did learn new things and not only about Brynden :D I understood a lot of the hints and references which were a mystery to me the first time. I'd entirely missed the conversation between Varys and Iliryo (I assume it was them) in the dungeons of the Red Keep, for example, or the subtle hints about Renly and Loras (though I would've probably missed them now, too, if I hadn't already known what they mean). I also got some insights into some of the characters like Jamie, Dany and my lovely Theon. It's hard to describe because almost none of it is strictly defined, it's just subtle things and nuances.

- Absolutely not, if something, it made the book more interesting, because of all the hidden treasures that become apparent only to those with a bit of prior knowledge of the story.

- Oh, yes. I already kind of talked about that when answering the first question, so I won't repeat myself. But I think what made the book even more different, at least for me, is how much I've grown/changed in those two years since I first picked it up.

- I might read it for a third time, but it's going to take some time to forget the things I now know. Maybe in a couple of years, when the seventh book is released and I'll most likely have to brush up on the details.

[Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister]

Very interesting post Ria.

I know in time I will want to read it (and hopefully the whole series) all over again. I started to re-watch the tv show and now I realize how little I did understand while watching it.

This book did a great job at knocking me down a few rungs on the intelligence ladder. At times I felt very stupid and confused. Nothing like the taste of humble pie!

[Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister]

I wanted to ask in a poll but decided not too in case people are behind in their reading. It could spoil, So I will ask here. Please back up your answers.

~Who in your opinion is the rightful heir to the Throne after Robert's death?

~Who in your opinion would be the best person to have on the Throne after Robert's death?

[Roseanne, RRRM]

I read this almost two years ago now. Even though I loved it and would read it again I think it is too soon for me. Maybe once I'm done with the others I will go back at some point and reread it.

[Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister]

I think this is a safe place to post and ask this. It is about Osha.

"A wildling woman.
Osha fled south of the Wall along with several other wildlings and a pair of Night's Watch deserters. They came across Bran in the wolfswood and tried to take him hostage, but Robb, Grey Wind, and Summer arrived to rescue him. She was the only survivor and was taken back to Winterfell for questioning. She was later assigned to work in the kitchens."

What I don't understand is if the wall is so huge, tall and extends for miles, how did she get South of the wall? Or are we not supposed to know that yet?

[Ria]

♪ Leslie (aka Basesloaded32) wrote: "I think this is a safe place to post and ask this. It is about Osha.

"A wildling woman.
Osha fled south of the Wall along with several other wildlings and a pair of Night's Watch deserters. They c..."

Well, the Wall is tall, but it can be climbed and there are doors and passages in it, some hidden and long forgotten. *slight spoiler* There is a detailed explanation of how a few characters pass through the Wall without being noticed later in the books. *end of slight spoiler* And the Watch are very thinly spread, so for a small group of people, it's not that hard if they put their minds to it. I don't remember George being very detailed about Osha's passage in particular, though it's possible that I missed something.

[Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister]

Oh, alright. I see. Thanks.

[Ria]

♪ Leslie (aka Basesloaded32) wrote:
"~Who in your opinion is the rightful heir to the Throne after Robert's death?
Well, there's not really much to discuss here from the information we have in the first book, is there? It's either Stannis, or Dany, if you think of Robert as a usurper rather than the rightful king. Although Dany is the last Targaryen, so that begs the question - what happens after her death if she becomes queen? I personally think Robert won his throne fair and square, so that makes Stannis the rightful heir. For those who have read all the books: (I don't think this is in the show, so if you've watched all seasons, but haven't read the books, don't read this, it will be a gigantic spoiler) (view spoiler)[Do you think Aegon is legitimate? Personally I don't know what to believe. On the one hand, I bet my life that Jon Connington was in love with Rhaegar, so I doubt he'd want some random kid posing as his best friend's son. On the other hand, it seems to me he showed up too suddenly and we've no physical proof of his lineage, so I'm at a loss here. (hide spoiler)]

~Who in your opinion would be the best person to have on the Throne after Robert's death? "
Right now I think that would be Stannis. It's true that the people will love Renly much more than they would him, but considering everything that's happened to the kingdom, they don't need someone they'll like, they need someone who is rightous and unforgiving, unafraid to do what is necessary. And Stannis is just that. Not to mention he's a greater warrior and strategist than Renly. Certainly, he has many faults. For one, he's too self-absorbed and self-centered. I'm pretty sure he has a superiority complex. He lacks any sense of humour and is colder than the Wall. In a peaceful age, I would have chosen Renly in the blink of an eye. But that God complex Stannis has (see what I did there? :D), he feeds by always being true to his principles and doing the right thing. Perhaps the people would hate him, but he would do right by them and "fix" what is left of their wretched land. And sure, he wouldn't do it out of the kindness of his heart, I'm pretty certain he lacks any amount of empathy, but it's his duty as a King, and he would do it diligently. (view spoiler)[I know he burned his daughter in the show, but he didn't in the books and I might sound prudish, but as far as I'm conserned that's the original line of events. But the most important thing for me, for which I would forgive even such a monstrous sacrifice (and the slaughter of his own brother), is that when the Watch needed help, he was the only one who came. I suspect he did it mostly to prove he was better and more deserving than the others, but it doesn't change the fact that only he cared enough to ignore his own petty whims for the sake of the Kingdom. (hide spoiler)] Also, he is the rightful heir. I bet my life he would not have wanted the throne had it not been rightfully his in the first place. Or even if he wanted it, he would not fight to steal it from another. He thinks too highly of himself to succumb to thirst for power.

[Brendan]

Just finished the appendix and I have a question for everyone. Here it is: Whenever there is a bastard-child, they have last names that emulate the terrain of the area where they are from (i.e.: Jon Snow [from the cold North of Winterfell], Mya Stone [from the tall mountains of the Eyrie and the Vale], Garse and Garrett Flowers [from the fertile plains of the Reach]. Why then does the bastard child of Gerion Lannister, Joy Lannister, not have a last name that matches the terrain where she is from? Is it because the Lannisters are in control and this would bring shame to the house? If so, how would this bring shame and not the incestuous love affair of Cersei and Jamie?

[Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister]

found this: Joy Hill is the bastard daughter of Gerion Lannister.

"All bastards can be easily identified by their surname, which is the same for all bastards in a region. Each region of the Seven Kingdoms has a different surname for bastards.

They are:
The Crownlands- Waters
The North- Snow
The Iron Islands- Pyke
The Riverlands- Rivers
The Vale- Stone
**********The Westerlands- Hill *********
The Reach- Flowers
The Stormlands- Storm
Dorne- Sand"

[Brendan]

Honestly, where did the last name of Hill appear? Totally missed that one. Definitely did not see that in the appendix. Still why didn't Martin list her last name of Hill in the appendix? He did for all of the other house bastard children in the line of royalty. Just wondering if it was a typo or intentional. Please correct me if I am wrong and it was there.

[Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister]

Well I found my info here:
link

But my appendix shows her but only as "his bastard daughter, Joy, a girl of only ten

[Brendan]

Thanks for the link Leslie!!!!

[Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister]

You are very welcome. We are all fans here!

[Omar]

Answers to all your questions
-I learnt stuff that confirms rumours out now
- It honestly never got boring even though I knew what happened I just looked at this differently. It's very interesting the way Martin writes you never see what will happen. I did this re read with a lot more attention to detail. There's so much you can miss
- I'll probably reread the whole series before TWOW again.

And I agree with Ria about the heirs. Stannis is the rightful heir and would be good for the realm because he always does the right thing.

[Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister]

Omar I like your answers. I can hardly wait to read it a second time.