Jan/ Feb 2016 Group Read Selection - Knots and Crosses by Ian Rankin

[Barbara]

@ Michelle. I would encourage you to give Ian Rankin another chance. The later Rebus books really are better. Rebus himself changes. He gets tougher and more cynical; he has complicated dealings with major criminals in Edinburgh. And eventually he gets a mentee, Siobhan Clarke - with whom has a complex relationship (not romantic).

@Judy. I've also read a couple of Rankin's 'Malcolm Fox' books. I liked them pretty well.

[Tom]

Barbara wrote: "I do kind of get it though; special forces have to be very tough. "

They also need to have an idea of what they will face if captured.

[Barbara]

Tom wrote: "Barbara wrote: "I do kind of get it though; special forces have to be very tough. "

They also need to have an idea of what they will face if captured."

Yes... of course. (not the job for me, that's for sure!)

[Tracey]

I wanted to add to my comments having read some of the later posts:
1. I don't live in Scotland but lived in the UK for 36 years and had association with Scotland and Scottish people a lot. Rankin makes reference to Calvinistic ideals a lot. I think some of the things Rebus is dealing with and at times makes him seem '2-faced' or almost a split personality, is due to Calvinistic belief that has that effect on some people. They are questioning their beliefs whilst still believing and it is a very hard stoic type of belief. Thus Rebus is moral but then steals rolls and milk? Rebus is trying to find his feet within the real world and his beliefs. Possibly?
2. Calvinist beliefs are very Old Testament type of belief and thus the line where Rankin makes reference to "living in an Old Testament World" makes sense.
3. It rains a lot in the UK and the skies are often grey and dour. This atmosphere is expressed in the book and adds 'atmosphere' to the story.
4. I have just finished the 2nd book in the series and I do feel Rebus is developing and the series has more promise that I felt with just the first book.

[Ann]

Barbara wrote "The way Rebus described his training - going on for so long and being so mentally and physically horrific "

well, I agree

(view spoiler)[ I was sceptical that the SAS would push them beyond their limits to the point where Rebus' colleague 'cracked'. I think it was the nature of the mission they were training for - infiltration of the IRA ( I believe?) - which made me sceptical. These days it would perhaps make more sense that the training would need to be so extreme.
Also, I think Rebus hints that the training was an experiment which the forces later scrapped....?
(hide spoiler)]

[Barbara]

Tracey wrote: "I wanted to add to my comments having read some of the later posts:
1. I don't live in Scotland but lived in the UK for 36 years and had association with Scotland and Scottish people a lot. Rankin ..."

Tracey, I was also struck by Rebus's frequent references to religion and by his apparent strong religious beliefs.

I was also a bit surprised because in the later books (if I remember correctly) Rebus doesn't seem particularly religious at all.

[Barbara]

Ann wrote: "Barbara wrote "The way Rebus described his training - going on for so long and being so mentally and physically horrific "

well, I agree

I was sceptical that the SAS would push them beyond their..."

@ Ann
Yes, they were training to infiltrate the IRA.

(view spoiler)[ You'd think, once the colleague 'cracked', they'd take him out ot the training program and discharge him from the SAS....right? (but I guess that doesn't fit with the plot). (hide spoiler)]

In some movies I've seen, spies/agents have cyanide capsules in a tooth, so if they're captured they can end their lives before the torture starts. Seems like a reasonable idea.
Of course that's fiction...but I think the Soviets (at least) did this type of thing.

Naturally, in special forces training they wouldn't do this....don't want to lose all the trainees.

[Theona]

I have to agree with most of the comments. I enjoyed the second half of the book more so than the first. especially when the investigation picks up. to me, it kinda end abruptly just when its getting good. the more complex and twisted the better in my opinion. From what I can gather, that's what happens later on in the series so I look forward to that.
I did enjoy how Rankin describes Rebus world. it works in the story's favor. "Edinburgh rain was like a judgement. It soaked into the bones, into the structures of the buildings, into the memories of the tourists. It lingered for days, splashing up from puddles by the roadside, breaking up marriages, chilling, killing, omnipresent."
I can't wait to read the next one.

[Barbara]

Theona wrote: "I have to agree with most of the comments. I enjoyed the second half of the book more so than the first. especially when the investigation picks up. to me, it kinda end abruptly just when its getti..."

I'm glad you're going on with the series Theona. The stories do get more complex and twisted :)

[Sandi]

I think John Rebus would be a great TV series. I wonder if Ian Rankin has been approached?

[Denise]

There have been two Rebus TV series. The early series (books) starred John Hannah as Rebus, later starred Ken Stott. I think the latter still shows on Netflix.

[Barbara]

Denise wrote: "There have been two Rebus TV series. The early series (books) starred John Hannah as Rebus, later starred Ken Stott. I think the latter still shows on Netflix."

Denise.
You're right, it's available on Netflix - but only on DVD.

[Tom]

The Ken Stott series is on Acorn.TV. It includes Knots & Crosses as the last episode in series 4.

[Ann]

I finished the book last night and will let the ending stew for a while before writing a review.
In general, I feel satisfied. Which is a good feeling to end on.
My impression is that the book is really about Rebus and his internal battles, and the crimes around him are somehow secondary....

[Barbara]

Ann wrote: "I finished the book last night and will let the ending stew for a while before writing a review.
In general, I feel satisfied. Which is a good feeling to end on.
My impression is that the book is that the book is really about Rebus and his internal battles, and the crimes around him are somehow secondary..."

@Ann
I think you're right Ann. In an interview with Robert McCrum, Ian Rankin said:

"I wrote Knots and Crosses, the first of the Rebus books, not even realising that I was writing crime fiction."

re: Edinburgh
Several comments above have mentioned Edinburgh as an important element in the book. With regard to that Rankin said:

"[Edinburgh is] a major character because it has influenced Rebus. The real mystery in these books isn't the crime. OK, it's a crime novel, with a crime, an investigation and a resolution, so it's got the structure of the crime novel. But underneath, the real mystery is Rebus coming to terms with Edinburgh."

[Barbara]

Tom wrote: "The Ken Stott series is on Acorn.TV. It includes Knots & Crosses as the last episode in series 4."

I don't get Acorn but I noticed that "Knots and Crosses" is also available on Hulu. I'm going to watch it and see how it compares to the book.

[Ann]

Here's a link to my review. I certainly felt I'd lived inside Rebus' head for a while!

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Barbara]

Okay, I watched "Knots and Crossses" on Hulu and - aside from the fact that Rebus gets a series of anonymous letters containing strings and crosses - the plot has NOTHING in common with the book of the same name.

In fact the anonymous letters in the TV episode don't have much to do with the crimes (the murder of some drug pushers). I think the letters are included just so the episode can be named "Knots and Crosses".

Rebus's appearance and irritable personality (in the TV show) matches okay with the description in the books.

[Barbara]

I posted a link to my review of on another thread, but I'll include it here as well.

My complete review:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Denise]

Barbara wrote: "Okay, I watched "Knots and Crossses" on Hulu and - aside from the fact that Rebus gets a series of anonymous letters containing strings and crosses - the plot has NOTHING in common with the book of..."

I don't know why they did that, it was quite disappointing. Why add the first book title to the last (maybe) of a TV/video series? It made sense to someone in the office who probably never read the books. Rebus is so much older by the time we get to Ken Stott playing Rebus than he was in the book. If you recall, in the video Siobhan makes a comment at the very beginning about how well-dressed he is - he usually (even in the video series) is in some stage of disrepair and he does wake up in places he doesn't know how he got there, etc. Of course, she isn't even supposed to be in the video as she isn't in the book. *sigh*

[Jan C]

Denise wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Okay, I watched "Knots and Crossses" on Hulu and - aside from the fact that Rebus gets a series of anonymous letters containing strings and crosses - the plot has NOTHING in common ..."

The dvd set I have of John Hanna's series doesn't include Knots and Crosses. It starts with Black and Blue.

[Barbara]

Denise wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Okay, I watched "Knots and Crossses" on Hulu and - aside from the fact that Rebus gets a series of anonymous letters containing strings and crosses - the plot has NOTHING in common ..."

I agree Denise. Rebus in the book was much more sloppy about his clothing and appearance. I pictured him as very disheveled.

I thought his face was okay. I figure Rebus could look like that...big nose, not particularly handsome (no offense Ken Stott).

Rebus also drank A LOT more in the book (and had blackouts, as you point out).

Oh well......

[Barbara]

Jan C wrote: "Denise wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Okay, I watched "Knots and Crossses" on Hulu and - aside from the fact that Rebus gets a series of anonymous letters containing strings and crosses - the plot has NOT..."

Jan, I wonder if this John Hanna series follows the story lines in the books any better.

[Jan C]

Barbara wrote: "Jan C wrote: "Denise wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Okay, I watched "Knots and Crossses" on Hulu and - aside from the fact that Rebus gets a series of anonymous letters containing strings and crosses - th..."

I don't know. My dvd has four episodes - Black and Blue, Dead Souls, The Hanging Garden, Mortal Causes. I had read them all before seeing it and I think they bore "some" resemblance. A 2-hour show cannot live up to a book. They just don't have the same space.

[Denise]

Jan C wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Jan C wrote: "Denise wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Okay, I watched "Knots and Crossses" on Hulu and - aside from the fact that Rebus gets a series of anonymous letters containing strings ..."

I was just talking about that particular episode. It was VERY different in the most basic ways. The other episodes at least bore some resemblance to the book - usually a great deal of resemblance to the book even if it is only 2 hours - but not in the case of Knots and Crosses.

[Denise]

The John Hanna episodes are on Acorn.tv as well as the ones with Ken Stott I just noticed.

[Barbara]

Denise wrote: "Jan C wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Jan C wrote: "Denise wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Okay, I watched "Knots and Crossses" on Hulu and - aside from the fact that Rebus gets a series of anonymous letters conta..."

The other episodes at least bore some resemblance to the book - usually a great deal of resemblance to the book even if it is only 2 hours - but not in the case of Knots and Crosses.


Glad to hear that Denise. I'll probably watch some more of the TV series. Do you think John Hanna or Ken Stott makes a better Rebus?

[Denise]

Barbara wrote: "Denise wrote: "Jan C wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Jan C wrote: "Denise wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Okay, I watched "Knots and Crossses" on Hulu and - aside from the fact that Rebus gets a series of anonymou..."

Ken Stott. I like John Hanna but even when he "is" a drunk slob he looks like a cute frat boy. Ken Stott is more the Rebus type tho I keep trying to think of an actor who would be more like Rebus, so far I can't think of a particular actor. I'm sure someone in this group can!

[Barbara]

Denise wrote: "Barbara wrote: Do you think John Hanna or Ken Stott makes a better Rebus?

Ken Stott. I like John Hanna but even when he "is" a drunk slob he looks like a cute frat boy. Ken Stott is more the Rebus type tho I keep trying to think of an actor who would be more like Rebus, so far I can't think of a particular actor. I'm sure someone in this group can!


@ Denise
I can't think of one either off the top of my head.

I like Norman Reedus but he's probably too 'cute' also.
He does a good Irish accent in 'The Boondock Saints' so maybe he could do Scottish as well. :)

[Bill]

I think Ken Stott fits my image of Rebus as well, better than Hanna, but they both did a good job. I can't actually remember how close the shows were to the books, but I enjoyed them all. I guess the best thing is not to even try, just to enjoy both the reading and the viewing experiences.

[Ian]

Hanna's a very fine actor but I felt he was mis-cast as Rebus. No disrespect to him, but his appearance is not sufficiently world-weary and cynical. Stott's appearance is much nearer the Rebus of my imagination, but not quite there. There is a Scottish actor who played Golly the gamekeeper in The Monarch of the Glen, a Sunday night soap on British TV. He is thin, grey-haired, rugged-looking in a 'Wha dare meddle wi' me' way and he delivers well-chosen words economically and with quiet authority. Unfortunately he does not have a big name, indeed I can't remember it! The funny thing is, I don't believe Rankin ever describes Rebus but most readers have a similar mental picture of him. That MUST be good writing.

[Miss M]

I've always pictured (a slightly younger) actor Stephen Rea as Rebus--with a different accent, of course!

[Barbara]

Ian wrote: "Hanna's a very fine actor but I felt he was mis-cast as Rebus. No disrespect to him, but his appearance is not sufficiently world-weary and cynical. Stott's appearance is much nearer the Rebus of m...

There is a Scottish actor who played Golly the gamekeeper in The Monarch of the Glen, a Sunday night soap on British TV"

I checked....the actor's name is Alexander Morton. I agree he looks world weary enough to be Rebus. A little too good looking though :)

[Barbara]

Miss M wrote: "I've always pictured (a slightly younger) actor Stephen Rea as Rebus--with a different accent, of course!"

Good suggestion Miss M. I looked up Stephen Rea and he could fit the Rebus I picture in my mind.

[Barbara]

Christina wrote: "Seeing as you just read the first Rebus novel and I can see the series sparked some interest (quite right, too!)... BBC radio 4 dramatised "A Question Of Blood" and it's available for another month..."

Thanks Christina!

[Bill]

Nope, no problem posting that here, Christina. :)

[Kim]

Read this a while back, I remember it is a dark and gritty beginning to a series with a compelling central character with a mess of a personal life. His Edinburgh is very different from that of Isabel Dalhousie.

[Amanda]

I finished it today. I think this is a grim picture of Edinburgh fitting in with the theme of crime and murder. Crime is a gritty subject and drugs, tramps and constant rain all add to that negative effect that Rankin is going for. I enjoyed the book. I felt like others that the crime was part of the story but that Rebus and his interactions with others and his coping with the past were the main themes in the book. I find him a very interesting character. The religious side is very intriguing as he doesn't seem to fit. I will definitely continue the series. I've not watched the series but can imagine that Ken Stott is a good Rebus. I love that you mentioned Isabel Dalhousie. If you want to see another less grim side to Edinburgh try Alexander McCall Smith. The Sunday Philosophy Club series for mystery and the Scotland Street series for Edinburgh life. Great books. Oh and I worked in the ABC cinema on Lothian Road when I was a student where Rebus nearly went with his daughter. That was a tgrill to read!

[Amanda]

Thrill I meant!

[Ann]

Reading Knots and Crosses gave me a taste for more Ian Rankin.
Yesterday, I was lucky enough to pick up a second hand copy of Exit Music at my local Oxfam store - I think it's the last one in the series.

[Barbara]

Ann wrote: "Reading Knots and Crosses gave me a taste for more Ian Rankin.
Yesterday, I was lucky enough to pick up a second hand copy of Exit Music at my local Oxfam store - I think it's the last one in the s..."

I enjoyed Exit Music. Gave it 4 stars.

[Ann]

That's good to know, thanks Barbara

[Gisela]

Ann wrote: "Reading Knots and Crosses gave me a taste for more Ian Rankin.
Yesterday, I was lucky enough to pick up a second hand copy of Exit Music at my local Oxfam store - I think it's the last one in the s..."

Try and read them in order. Unfortunately Exit Music is the one before last. You get more out of them if you read them in order as not only Rebus' own life, the excellent Siobhan as well as Rebus' nemesis develop considerably during the books.

[Denise]

Gisela wrote: "Ann wrote: "Reading Knots and Crosses gave me a taste for more Ian Rankin.
Yesterday, I was lucky enough to pick up a second hand copy of Exit Music at my local Oxfam store - I think it's the last ..."

I strongly second what Gisela advises. Even Ian Rankin advises it (on an interview I saw on You Tube,) as he said he had no idea where he was going with Rebus even after the first book and with each book he had to work to get inside Rebus' mind. The books very much reflect this of course.

[Ann]

thanks for your advice Gisela and Denise...
if only it were an ideal world...
I shall sit on Exit Music for a while and think about what to read next