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How do you gain confidence in your own feminist views?
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Lindsey
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Jan 09, 2016 11:34AM
This has always been a struggle for me, mostly because I try to avoid confrontation as much as possible. I would say that's one of my character flaws because confrontation is needed at times, but as hard as I try I can't figure out how to overcome it. How do you gain confidence? Is there anything that you do that could help me or anyone else who struggles?
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I find I have this problem too! So glad somebody else feels the same. This is one of the main reasons I joined the book club, I have these beliefs but don't feel confident in standing up for them. I'm hoping that expanding what I read can help me. A book I found useful and have actually citied in debates in University is "I call myself a feminist", gave me a good basis for some arguments! I would definitely recommend :)
For a long time, I shied away from calling myself a feminist because of the negative connotations attached to it, and I also hate confrontations and avoid them where I can. However, I've done a lot of research and things to know why I believe in this. Now I'm comfortable to call myself a feminist, but have had people question it at times because they've heard stories of man hating. I was in a position to tell them that I didn't hate men and that it was all about equality of people.
That conversation helped me to have more confidence in myself., though it's not always easy. I would just say that if you know absolutely that you stand for feminism, then other people will see that and hopefully realise that we all want equality. :)
Thank you!! These are great suggestions! I am excited to do more research. Maybe being more educated on the topic, like you two, will help me feel more confident. Thank you!
I also have that problem, I feel I can't argue with people, and as I'm rarely totally sure of myself I tend more to consider other's suggestions than to force them to consider mine... But like Kelly said, if I've given more thought about a topic, then my position is more secured in my mind and I can more easily argue with people! You find in the end that most of the time people don't know exactly why they believe something... So I think reading books is the best solution :) This group is a great idea to know which books to read first!
Glad that I could help you both a little bit! :) I'm also really looking forward to reading the books that we will be deciding on this year. All the best!
I think it's very hard to be confident in expressing yourself as a feminist when people don't want to see you as anything other than a man-hating, unshaven 'feminazi'. It's about changing the perception of the word feminism first before you debate with someone about it because they won't to listen and that's not your fault, it's how the media made them think. So don't feel bad for not being able to express yourself because a majority of people just don't understand and don't want to understand where you're coming from
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For example, studies of university students have shown that in a classroom seminar setting, men feel comfortable contributing to discussion when they are 20% sure of what they are saying. Women on average feel like they need to be 80% sure.
The problem persists because when norms are in place, when they are challenged, it feels like tipping the scale the other way rather than equality. For example, studies show that when a crowd is 50/50 white and black men, white men, when asked what percentage of black men they see, on average they think it is much higher. Because they are used to white men being over-represented, they are unable to see equal numbers. They only see fewer of themselves than they did before.
I like to back up my opinions with facts. I've found that the majority of people who oppose feminism simply do not understand what it is or what its goals are (some people genuinely do not think women and other minority groups deserve equality, and they are a lot harder to deal with). Many of them are misinformed with the same misinformation, so it's easy to learn a few key concepts and statistics that allow you to combat those ideas.
That being said, it's also totally okay to prefer avoiding confrontation. There are ways to practice feminism that don't involve educating others or arguing with anti-feminists. Looking out for your fellow woman, participating in your country's political process whenever possible and keeping yourself informed, and when you find yourself in a position of power, find ways to help women and other minority groups, and avoiding competition with other women. So many times there is a mentality of: there are only so many open spots for women at the top, if I want to be one of them, I need to beat all the other women. It doesn't have to be like that! Just being a good person and helping others is a way to maintain confidence when practicing your feminism. And your feminism is YOURS. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise!
Hi, I loved your question and I'm happy to comment on the topic and hopefully help you. My way of staying confident in what I believe is talking about it with a friend first instead of random people, this helps you to avoid a confrotation AND makes it possible for you to educate your friends on what feminism ACTUALLY IS. The first time I ever did this was with one of my male friends, who is very opinionated and doesnt let you win an argument easy, but is ALWAYS respectful and listens to what I have to say. We talked about feminism for a LONG time and in the end it all came down to him asking me: but what are you doing to change anything? How are u gonna change things by yourself?" I told him: "by talking, bringing more people in the conversation, like you." He smiled and understood. My point is you can find confidence in the little actions. Just stay consistent and dont forget WHY feminism is important for you. Thats your fuel.
Talking with your friends first and knowing how they think about the topic and having a nice conversation is a very good start for you to gain more confidence. :) hope this helps!
Thank you so much!! These suggestions have really opened my eyes and helped me. Thank you!
I have the same problems! I wasn't sure what reaction I would get when I shared Emma's UN Women's HeForShe speech on Facebook (I didn't get any reaction at all) but then I thought I don't care what people say its just words I can ignore them it's time I showed support for something I believe in! I mean women died to get the right to vote so a few harsh words is nothing really!
Thank you for the suggestions! Like many others, I struggle to be confident in my remarks. Probably due to the negative connotation associated with the word "feminist".
Lack of confidence means lack of control in the conversation. Remind yourself that you are the one taking charge; you have a chance to change the outcome of the situation. Don't let someone belittle you because of their false misconceptions. Remember that what you stand for is good and right, and that confidence will exude from you when you speak.
I find it easier to have conversations when I realize that I am planting seeds in people's minds. I try to stay clear of actions that keep the patriarchy going--from viewing pornographic material to talking about the inequality in country music, when I have the chance, to not engaging in hook-ups simply because I find someone attractive, if I see no future in the relationship, to treating everyone with respect and dignity in our interactions--and realize that Rome wasn't built in a day. We need courage, above all else, and the best way for me to find my courage, is to think about my potential children and what world I want them to see when they get into this world. So, this changes over time. Be respectful--but also be firm--that this is unacceptable, the way society is treating women, and telling boys and men to treat women. When I have been called a "pussy," I take a deep breath and say, "Please, call me weak. Do not call me a derogatory term for a woman to express that I am not manly in your eyes. Call me weak. Stop insulting women by calling them weak at the same time you are talking to me."
When I have been confronted over my views on Country music, something I have listened to for 23 years, I am ready. I have songs that respect women readily available at my disposal. I am confident that I can be articulate. I listen to what is popular, and when a song offends me (like Florida Georgia Line's "Cruise," Luke Bryan's "That's My Kind of Night," the video for "Burnin' it Down," by Jason Aldean, and the latest, "Die a Happy Man" by Thomas Rhett), I listen until I know WHY it's offending me. For instance, Rhett talks about sex in the first verse, her body in a dress in verse 2, and I compare it to a song with a similar message (that their love is enough for him to die a happy man) to something released 25 years ago, Collin Raye's "In This Life," that manages to say the same thing without addressing her body. Love, for me, transcends the physical attraction. Love is about appreciating more than just how she looks in a dress. And why? Because beauty fades. In 20 years, I ask, will you trade-up for a better model? Or in the case of the party songs talking about hook-ups and body parts, I ask, "Why are we treating women like a prop for a good time, like a stiff drink in your hand?"
When addressing Barbies or photo-shopping, I do the same thing. I look over the empirical evidence that girls who play with Barbies are more likely to think they need to lose weight, I go over the reasons behind eating disorders, and I make my point. Whether I am called a name, is immaterial. Because, again, I am fighting for a better world, and the most someone can do is get mad and stop listening. Rome wasn't built in a day, and so I say, "the seed has been planted, hopefully, it sprouts." I put it into their minds, and hopefully, they think about it, whatever their reaction to me is, at whatever time.
So, I keep my armor on. I let them throw tomatoes and curse me out. I don't care. I want a better world and I put my courage on because if I don't say something, that child of mine, will be facing the same situations that I faced and maybe they aren't a feminist.
Courage, dear heart. Courage. It is the only thing that will change attitudes. Plant seeds and walk away knowing you are in the right. Women need your courage. Men need your courage. Do not expect everyone to embrace you, but as long as you don't shut up, we will get some attitudes changed, over time.
Mod
I really like what you wrote about country music! I study musicology and have written about country music's depictions of women and violence. It is a varied genre of music, and sometimes the sexist popular music drowns out the more positive depictions of women there there are. I highly recommend Nadine Hubbs's book Rednecks, Queers, and Country Music that came out in 2014. It mostly talks about queer representation, but of course there is plenty of overlap with women's issues, and all can be considered under the umbrella of feminism. It's an academic text, but if that turns you off at all, I'll just let you know that it's not as dense as a lot of other academic texts.
Also, I just wanted to point to D's comment as an example of how feminism is a collaboration between people with an infinite number of experiences and opinions. I think there are examples of pornography that are operating at odds with patriarchy, and I think women can practice sexual freedom without contributing to patriarchy, but there are many feminists who find these things problematic to the goals of the movement. Even with these differing views, the most important thing is that we work both together and individually to achieve our ends!
When I had first considered myself a feminist, I too struggled with this. Yet, ultimately, I turned to my beliefs and principles, noting that I clearly believed in Feminism and its associated concepts. Therefore, the decisions thereafter became simplified being able to identify with the cause.
Katelyn is right.. But I do think female need to voice their opinion in the right place... Doing so in a place that's full of stubborn male that think they are the de facto leader of the society will be sort of useless until you find someone charismatic enough to teach them what's right. Leave that, all I am trying to say, I feel like many of you think there are no good men out there. That's wrong. Voice your opinion, there are many males that will support your cause without you begging for it. True men still exist.
As I said before arguing with a fool only proves there are two.
Katelyn wrote: "D wrote: "I find it easier to have conversations when I realize that I am planting seeds in people's minds. I try to stay clear of actions that keep the patriarchy going--from viewing pornographic ..."Sexuality is a subject with a myriad of views, for sure, when it comes to feminism. My view is simple: the Puritanical attitude that we are always thinking about sex when exposing skin is why little girls and women are slut-shamed for the clothes they wear, why we have to have dress codes, and why burkas are prevalent.
Pornography would lose its impact, it is the seedier side of this puritanical view, where a woman is doing nothing but exposing her body. It is dehumanizing to see a woman as the shape of her body part, and becoming aroused by that. As a man, I find this attitude to be corrosive to society when talking about rape, being comfortable in your own skin, and comparison to the people we see on film, television, and in pictures in magazines. It makes women feel insecure, in my opinion and experience. A man is usually not featured as much in the film, and the pornography that does showcase a man, usually isn't mainstream.
I have more conservative views on this subject, although I am a liberal. Sex is meant for the bedroom. If you want to act like a porn star for your partner, more power to you. There is a difference between an active sex life and being paid to have sex on-camera. If we proceed from the assumption that women are not objects, just exposing skin, a lot of pornography and decency laws, lose their teeth. It's the housing of your essence, your thoughts and experiences, and, in addition to being that, it can give life to the world. That is why strip clubs will never see me again. That's why I don't watch porn. That's why I would never pick up a hooker.
As for Country music, I will look into that book. It sounds interesting and academic texts have never left me cold. I find they have more information than the rest of the other genres of books. I'm glad someone else sees my views. I enjoy the music of Kacey Musgraves, Little Big Town, Ashley Monroe, Collin Raye, Joe Diffie (minus Pickup Man), Garth Brooks, Sugarland, Rascal Flatts, Don Henley (yes, he's got a great new album out), Carrie Underwood, Dixie Chicks, Lee Brice, Miranda Lambert, Maddie and Tae, Jennifer Nettles, Brandy Clark, Kristian Bush, Leann Rimes, Jason Isbell, Turnpike Troubadors, Mickey Guyton, The Band Perry, The Civil Wars, Tim McGraw and his wife, Faith Hill, David Nail (before his current album), Kenny Chesney, Zac Brown Band, Darius Rucker (before his current album), Jamey Johnson, just to name a lot. :) There is a lot of good stuff out there, but too often we are left to weed through the crap to get to it. It's not on the charts anymore.
Hmm, yes, information is power, but so is trusting one's heart. If you believe you know what the right thing to do is, you don't always need statistics and other data to back it up.Confrontation can be loud or in a speaking voice. Do you mean you avoid both? In its simplest form I view confrontation as two people not sharing the same opinion.
If you want to stay quiet about yours, make an active choice that is based in logic (your own logic of course). Silence can be powerful, too, if it builds you up rather than tears you down.
But if you "give up" for no good reason other than perhaps feeling scared or awkward, you as a person deny yourself a chance to develop and grow. Change usually is a bit uncomfortable, but it helps if you have a cause you believe in. That of course means you need to know what you think.
I like to think of Dalai Lama at times. He states in Cutler's Happiness book that we should say no to something if it harms us in the long run, even if saying no is hard in the moment.
Read Sheryl Sandberg's Lean In, too. I, without having a business background, find it very useful, even though quite a few readers have focussed ridiculously much on her background, completely forgetting that privilege can take you only so far, and then it is up to you to keep working hard to gain success (however you define it).
D wrote: "I find it easier to have conversations when I realize that I am planting seeds in people's minds. I try to stay clear of actions that keep the patriarchy going--from viewing pornographic material t..."Excellent comment!
Thank you for so beautifully expressing how every day people can express their truth!
one way i've confronted people is through simplicity of word or action. while it can be tough to get comfortable with confrontation, it gets easier with practice. and, it doesn't always have to go into a full-blown argument - words as simple and succinct as 'i don't agree' can speak volumes. and, if asked why not, again, something simple, such as 'it doesn't seem fair.' then, if the other person wants to get into it, take it further, and you're not comfortable with that, 'i've already made my point' about sums it up. then, it may be time to change the subject or walk away, but you've been heard. i've used this tactic many times in situations where i'm feeling a bit wobbly or overwhelmed and it's given me confidence for the next time.
The main reason, why we feel being contradicted in the eyes of other is that we all live in our world of conviction, beliefs, habits and behaviour. Because all of the life we confront with different situation every human develops his own belief. But all of the humans don't think with the same values, meaning some people prefer something, what is not preferable to ourself. And there comes to a problem. The main reason this is happening is, because we think with different ways of processing information. However individual alone thinks, that the others thinks so as he / she thinks. But this is only a trap. There are only three main motives of every situation outcome, and nowaday we explain something that results negative confront of some situation with the mixture of different type of character that we talk with.
The best way, to maintain your belief in your words and opinions is to have a good explanation for them. Seek and read everything about something that you believe in. You and every other human still know the truth deep down in your conscious, but because nowaday the words has no real meaning, we try to "force convince someone else that our opinion is the only and the only truth".
The second thing is to know that others CAN HAVE their opinion. But we should be enough open to listen to them, and to have constructive arguments. This means we can still keep our opinion but we can talk all day long about topic confronting our and someone elses opinion.
A good reason is to respect replicant. This means our head will not take the way of forcing something to replicant. We have to understand also that our view differs from the view of our replicant. Meaning that, we alone have a own meaning about everything and others have the same, their own meaning about everything. When we try to find common sense for one thing, and we do not accept ourselves and others in opinions, then the problems occur. Because we are not aware that someone else can think so different than ourselves, and because we think that we live in a world of common meanings, without knowing our differences of thinking, frustration and anger can easily occur.
Because everyone is only seeing his own truth, he or she also thinks that this is how it should be (live, behave, ...) for others. But there is a lot more thinkings than only this one, on this planet. And the rules of living in common world, should also please all of the different thinks (natural law). Which unfortunately does not in this times.
There is a huge trap, when people say if you know what thing is right. Actually this means that those thing is right for you, and you can however find some other people who will eventually agree with you. But there are those who do not think the same way as you and you'll always find those who will not agree with you. Here is the important point to understand that they think with different motives and how they think it is "logical" only to them.
The words have a meaning, but after those meaning, there is still a motive, why someone said it and also explanation, why those words came up right that time.
When there is someone who tries to argue with you, you must understand that both of you seek the common motive. As this can be exhausting for both of you, and proving one right opinion to another right opinion can lead things to an anger, try to explain your view with arguments, not because "you feel so". There is a lot of people who only talk without arguments. You must understand that those people want to establish in a important place, but try to achieve this with criticism.
Behind word "feminism" is a very strong ideal that automatically confronts males, when you speak up. The men that have hard meaning and ideal about feminism and that believe that we divide onto men and women, will always feel objection. Therefore it is good to explain that feminism does not exclude men, but more likely approaches to gender equality. As men are today in majority of their abilities and the feeling is, that the patriarchy is leading the world, you can simply explain that the men are not forgotten in a word feminism, or even better to use a phrase gender equality :)
Tadej wrote: "The main reason, why we feel being contradicted in the eyes of other is that we all live in our world of conviction, beliefs, habits and behaviour. Because all of the life we confront with differen..."Your whole comment is very difficult to decipher, but from what I did grasp something stood out that I do want to emphasize in my response.
Yes, there are many self-absorbed people, who think only one way of living is possible, and they try to impose that way onto others.
Then there is my type of people, who choose one lifestyle but welcome many other lifestyles in parallel, as long as they aren't shoving down the throats of others their own belief system and habits, and as long as they refrain from judging negatively lifestyles by others.
I'm a bit funny and extremely arrogant in that I respect those among us, who respect choice and freedom, whereas I judge harshly and abhor completely the type that see the world through one set of glasses only, and that actively choose not to place themselves in the shoes of others.
So let's not bundle up everyone in the respect discussion. I respect those I view worthy of respect only, but then I think my version of living is one of the most accepting ones after all. How else could I defend multiple lifestyles simultaneously? Show me one rabid extremist of random topic that does the same rather than promote one lifestyle only.
Thank you for adding that topic! I am also that sort of a person that tries to avoid conflicts as best as possible. Though I must say that I also love a good discussion. The problem I have is that I am sometimes so outraged about what certain people think and say that I can't find any words to oppose it and feel like giving up on trying to change the minds of those people.
Iulia wrote: "Thank you for adding that topic! I am also that sort of a person that tries to avoid conflicts as best as possible. Though I must say that I also love a good discussion. The problem I have is that ..."there is no way to change their minds. walking away from them is the best, most self-loving thing you can do. there is no discussing with such people - you only become frustrated, angry, and outraged, and they stay self-righteous. it is only the open-minded person with whom it is possible to have a discussion.
First of all, I think that in the confrontation issue it is extremely important to realize that you will not change someone's mind in a 30 minute conversation. This is done with time. You have to plant the seed and water it, take care of it.Second: I stay confident about my feminism by surrounding myself with people that believe in what I do. Be it here, in facebook, in real life. It fills you with this unbelievable and unstoppable force and determination.
Also, study. Watch videos, read books and essays. Discuss with people that feel the same way you do (so you get other perspectives). Build up your arsenal.
For example, one day at school, we engaged in a conversation about violence against women and the gender pay gap. When a boy started to say the usual things ("women get pregnant. women are less strong than men. women are too emocional to be in leading and powerful positions.") I remembered a speech that Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie gave at TEDx. Remembering that gave me so many arguments and so much joy to be able to say those things with conviction. And I probably didn't change his mind. But I probably, also, encouraged another girl to have faith in her strength and power.
That's what makes the difference. Not changing the mind of someone like that boy (although that's awesome). But giving the power, the opportunity and the possibility of a better way of living for another woman.
(it's important to emphasise, too, that this can be done not only by speaking, but by the way you act on a daily basis. the little things like what D said about being called a pussy).
Focus on that and you'll have all the confidence you need! <3
@Aglaea, yes I believe it is. Because of the very widespread background I am also having a very difficult times here, to explain the knowledge that I describe, as much as possible close to you. In the background of my words is still a very powerful knowledge about human thinking, and which has first time in history helped to create a method which successfully eliminate dyslexia. Completely. The knowledge can be therefore extended also on numerous other human situations and it is very precise on a individual level as on society based situations. I am using a theory a long time now and it is also a matter of course to me and that is why my comments are hard to decipher ;)
@Manoela, why would you even try to change someone elses mind? :) Because someone is wrong? But, how do you know, that he or she is wrong? And do you know the absolute truth that you can judge who is right and who is wrong? In my opinion it is better to have our own opinion and understand that someone other sees the situation totally different. And this totally means in every aspect different. Probably to our thinking unimaginable. If you have tried to find the truth in your life, you'll know that you cannot and you should not change others mind. They have all the right to express their opinion even if they have powerful arguments and this makes you angry and you cannot contradict and find the right words to support your own opinion.
About the boy, who said "women get pregnant. women are less strong than men. women are too emocional to be in leading and powerful positions." This is what everyone can see, but this does not mean that women cannot think the way to be capable to lead a nation. If someone is going to compare women and men, it uses usually the reasons, which are stereotypical and which we see with our own eyes, meaning, that this is true and can easily be confronted in our mind with our opinion. This is where the anger comes from. But neither the first who staid for women, nor the second who is for men, cannot win.
Until there is comparison instead of accepting one another, we just create tension in common conversations. We are still men and women, but we surely do not divide onto men and women, but only on different thinking characters, meaning that there is also minority of women who think like men and minority of men who think like women. And all the human characters have their benefits and weaknesses. Therefore one human cannot be better than another one. We are still exactly the same as this is how we have been designed ;)
I believe changing mind is not the right phrase. I prefer learning, because someone who is open minded and has a great knowledge, can learn others a lot. And this means that others - take from him, what they want and that is the border of one human from another. This is however their decision (even if it's unconscious).This is also how little children learn from parents.
Iulia wrote: "Thank you for adding that topic! I am also that sort of a person that tries to avoid conflicts as best as possible. Though I must say that I also love a good discussion. The problem I have is that ..."Sandra wrote: "Iulia wrote: "Thank you for adding that topic! I am also that sort of a person that tries to avoid conflicts as best as possible. Though I must say that I also love a good discussion. The problem I..."
Like Sandra said, you usually can't change people's minds within a short time span, in particular when someone's opinion is strong to begin with and the topic is complex. If you go into a discussion with the mindset that you will succeed at making it happen, almost certainly you will "fail", and often it will also be impossible to have a strong-minded person actually hear you, understand your train of thought. So if you hope to influence, in my humble opinion the mission was doomed before it began.
Next thing to ponder is why they should listen to you, and why they should switch over to your opinion. Only if you are very clear about it in your own mind, will there be a small chance that you will catch their attention, and even then everything can fall on what mood they happen to be in; closed or open for new ideas.
There are so many steps along the way where things can go wrong that if we go into a debate with hopes of outcome, we already have a strategy. But I think the best discussions happen with a relaxed mind, where we have no expectations at all, but see from which direction the wind blows on that day, adjust our sails, and use an agile mind. As soon as we force a topic that isn't welcome, the opponent shuts down, so listening to them whilst staying in the moment is crucial.
All this requires a certain level of detachment, a lack of selfish demands. Making someone change their mind can be rather ego-driven after all :) It doesn't matter that the cause is good, we still have our own desires in the mix, and if we can't see just how much they influence each step, it will be hard to remain in control.
That is why I jump in at the deep end here of each difficult thread/topic, because I want and need to practice, and to crystallise my core values.
Tadej wrote: "@Manoela, why would you even try to change someone elses mind? :) Because someone is wrong? But, how do you know, that he or she is wrong? And do you know the absolute truth that you can judge who ..."I do not know that people are wrong or not. But when I am talking to someone and they say things that degrade women because of their gender only, I am going to try and make them see that maybe that's not the way to go. That women are just as worthy of things as man.
I take the example of the whole #FreeKesha situation. I have seen men (and women too) saying "We'll, she should not have taken those pills then", "She should've just left without making this whole fuss I mean...". And it goes on. So yeah, I will try to change the mind of someone that perpetuates an idea that Kesha, as well as other women, are objects made to sexualise and make money. I don't see how you wouldn't want that. As a feminist, this is what I fight for everyday. To maybe change someone's mind on the way they perceive women.
It's not about who is right or who is wrong. That is a totally subjective matter. Truth changes from one person to another, from one religion to another even from one country to another.
And of course, it's about learning. I never said anything about ignoring what the other person has to say. If I don't agree with it, it become's something to research on. If I do agree, it strengths my beliefs.
I never intended to appear as to separating women from men. I do not believe in this. We must create a better world together. But how are we to do that if we don't, at least, try to make someone see that there is another reality to what they believe to be the truth? We change this world by doing that. With Emma's speech at the UN. With women and men, everyday, making the statement that yes, they are feminists, and this is a great thing. We take those things, that are getting more space on social network on a daily basis, and we begin to plant a seed of doubt in someones mind. Maybe they begin to read more about it. They begin to change the way they talk because they realise that calling someone a "pussy" as something weak, bad and to be avoided is actually comparing a women to those things. This creates a chain of change and revolution and maybe, when we see it, things are actually starting to change.
After talking with my 17 year old grandson about this book club, he as usual wanted to argue. Wanted to be right. Very opinionated. Vehemently hates the word/idea feminism. We talked back and forth for a while. At this point in my life, i will not be pulled into an argument. I don't need to "prove my point" or sway others to my way of thinking. I hear what you are all saying about everyone's entitled to their own truth. However towards the end of our talk, he said "ok, yeah." It got him thinking and he allowed that maybe equalism would be a better term. The point being, have the quiet courage to speak out against injustice anywhere just for truth's sake, not to gain power or win the argument. The women and men who are participating on this site are some of the most brillant, brave, articulate,courageous and honest people i have come across in a long time.
Manoela wrote: "They begin to change the way they talk because they realise that calling someone a "pussy" as something weak, bad and to be avoided is actually comparing a women to those things."How about "primadonna" to degrade another man? What the heck did ballet dancers ever do to offend that much? They have more grace than those two guys combined, and work like crazy to make difficult stuff look lighter than soufflé. They also know real pain and aren't weaklings despite having slim frames.
Judy wrote: "After talking with my 17 year old grandson about this book club, he as usual wanted to argue. Wanted to be right. Very opinionated. Vehemently hates the word/idea feminism. We talked back and forth..."The situation would have gone down very differently, had you not kept your cool and viewed it from the outside so to speak. You saw the game strategics and used them to your advantage. That's what I mean by staying in control, and weighing pros and cons in every single situation where people have different opinions. Nice job.
Send him over, sounds like he could use a discussion or two!
I believe there is actually a little problem with young people - 15-25 today. It happens that they take their opinions after watching TV, listening to adults, listen to school and make their own opinion with his character. The problem however is that those learning nowaday is far from the truth and do not include common values. This is why young people step on one or other side of the meaning. And there is also how open those people can be. If life represses them to much, they become more closed and if they are more satisfied with their self and expressing own abilities they become more open.
Tadej wrote: "I believe there is actually a little problem with young people - 15-25 today. It happens that they take their opinions after watching TV, listening to adults, listen to school and make their own op..."Could you please stop with the stereotypes. Seriously, it's getting old already.
Aglaea wrote: "Tadej wrote: "I believe there is actually a little problem with young people - 15-25 today. It happens that they take their opinions after watching TV, listening to adults, listen to school and mak..."
I'm in that rank! OMG what's wrong with me? I don't do all those things. Should I?!
I'm in that rank! OMG what's wrong with me? I don't do all those things. Should I?!
Mod
You could easily apply those characteristics to any other generation. Perhaps more than a few decades ago, you'd replace "TV" with "radio," and before that with "books" and other methods of storytelling.
Besides, how can you judge a 15 year old for having a limited view of the world? They probably have not finished school or moved away from home yet. So who cares if they're learning things from TV? Maybe they're watching documentaries! I didn't watch them all that often at that age, but I read a lot of books, and I know plenty of teenagers and young people in their 20s who don't watch much TV at all. I watch a TON of TV, myself. But I still do a lot of reading, I have two degrees, and I feel that I do not represent the characteristics you describe.
For sure, there are people like that. But it's definitely not a new phenomenon ;)
Katelyn, maybe it is not phenomenon to you, but when you once work with the psychological theory that perfectly explains the attributes of humans and see it how they work every day at every step of your life, you really don't need any other explanation. And don't worry, you cannot see yourself in the characteristics, because everyone see the world as their mind is showing to them. Only someone else can describe you with those characteristics ;) Even if I write here down all the attributes of all three minds, you will find every of attribute within yourself. The problem is that others do not see you the same, as you see yourself from inside ;)
I believe however that there is no interests to people to find the most objective theory, but still I want to make a world a better place.
I really apologise if I have offended anyone, and I also understand that without background you'll hardly understand anything, but I do really try to explain the best that I can.
Elena, is not what's wrong with you, its the question what is wrong with others :) The theory actually puts 97% of people to behave like they were thought and learned :) and 3% those who think with their own head. If there will be right the opposite, the people would be more happy and healthy. And of course I cannot forget acceptance of one another ;)
Aglaea, they are not stereotypes, they are most objective attributes of different human characters. I just compare them between themselves, to explain situation in the topic ;)
Another good example to gain confidence in yourself is that you do not compare yourself to others. Because there will always be some younger, or more beautiful or more successful people who will cross your path.
We should start considering that this attitude of the absolute truth connoisseur is stupid. This preacher behaviour makes me sick. If you want to say your opinion go ahead, but leave behind this superiority halo if you want to do so.
When I state my opinion I do it previously thinking that people can think by themselves and I blame them because they don't do it, I don't come to preach as if I was their blessed saviour.
But no offence ;)
When I state my opinion I do it previously thinking that people can think by themselves and I blame them because they don't do it, I don't come to preach as if I was their blessed saviour.
But no offence ;)
Tadej wrote: "And don't worry, you cannot see yourself in the characteristics, because everyone see the world as their mind is showing to them. Only someone else can describe you with those characteristics ;) Even if I write here down all the attributes of all three minds, you will find every of attribute within yourself. The problem is that others do not see you the same, as you see yourself from inside ;) "That isn't feasible. I show very different sides of me to the public depending on who it is that I'm talking to in that moment. The only person, who knows all conscious sides of me, is myself. Of course there's the unconscious aspect, too, driving me to various actions, but to the observer it will still be what I happen to decide to show in that moment.
When I say "strong person", I include in that expression the notion that an individual knows their strengths and weaknesses very well, to an extent that if a random person were to throw in the face a weakness when they least expect it, it wouldn't come as a surprise how that particular weakness was brought up. It might surprise them that someone was rude enough to point it out in that moment, but the trait itself wouldn't be shocking.
So if someone accused me of being fat or ugly or something else deemed "undesirable" by society, I could cool as a cucumber retort "Tell me something I don't know!" A strong person, the way I see it, is confident even when facing negative feedback around their person, and isn't shaken to the core to hear such shocking stuff, but can face it in a constructive manner. (including dig through the motives of the rude person, and use even the rudeness to one's advantage).
I dare say there isn't a single flaw in me that I'm not aware of at this point. I fail every day at keeping them in check, but so does everyone else. The core point I want to make is that confidence in the context of this particular thread will grow once we embrace also the less fortunate aspects of our personality and character. We don't know everything, and when someone points out this fact, we can handle it gracefully or throw a temper tantrum à la five-year-old self.
Well, I can tell you that you see the world and yourself only with the attributes of your own character. Someone else, sees you as the whole different person and has no idea, what your world look like. Everyone is only perceiving his own opinions about others in his own world and the same counts for others. But in your world there is not anyone else, but only your imagination of others. And imaginations we can change :) I must say that I was your thoughts when I first met this knowledge, but it showed me, that it is true. Because your mind is adjusted so it thinks that everyone else thinks like you and that every information that you get from others is true, and when it goes to some aspect about you, this opinion from other implements in you faster than 0.001 second. And you believe it it is actually true. But that is not the truth. Someone else can only predict, what is your world and has no idea about it. So here is your point to think with your own head, that you know that this is only his own opinion and as that it doesn't make you any damage. Even if the words are very very bad.
It is true that we don't know everything, but what if there would someday come someone who will talk and talk and talk and nothing will make sense, until you figure out that there is actually theory which can explain human behaviour. Paf! :)
Tadej wrote: "Well, I can tell you that you see the world and yourself only with the attributes of your own character. Someone else, sees you as the whole different person and has no idea, what your world look like."I'm sorry, but I can't but say "Here we go again..." You are very presumptious in your statements with a broad brush.
There is a family member of mine that knows my inner workings very well, as were we twins. And I know their mind, too. Of course it is only a prediction, since I don't have a two-way channel between our two minds, but it isn't seldom that I know what they will say before they do. So is it a prediction anymore, or in fact a fact that I do know their mind like was it my own?
Tadej wrote: "Because your mind is adjusted so it thinks that everyone else thinks like you"
Mine isn't. My perception is working very well, thank you very much, and I can read this group on a daily basis to see that each mind commenting is an individual mind with its own set of thoughts and biases. Could you stop telling others that you know them and their minds intimately. You are rude.
Tadej wrote: "Because your mind is adjusted so it thinks that everyone else thinks like you and that every information that you get from others is true"
Again, stereotypes and rude statements. I know about manipulation and lies. I know that people say stuff without telling truth at all times. There's even the concept of white lies, which I apply at times myself.
You're not convincing me with your theory, because you make such stereotypical statements all the time all over this place, and quite a few of them are consistently incorrect. Others have pointed it out to you, too, so it isn't just one person being critical of your idea.
Come on, don't topple the base on which he leans in order to feel good with himself. That's mean!
Elena wrote: "Come on, don't topple the base on which he leans in order to feel good with himself. That's mean!"I'm such a bully :P
In all seriousness, though, I can't stand oversimplification presented as canon. As soon as someone mentions "theory" and "everyone" in the same sentence, my mind screams hypothesis, evidence, correlation and causation (the latter in particular), and other niceties right back at them.
Aglaea wrote: "Tadej wrote: "And don't worry, you cannot see yourself in the characteristics, because everyone see the world as their mind is showing to them. Only someone else can describe you with those charact..."i haven't found many people who know themselves so thoroughly, mainly because, i suspect, it's scary to delve into the depths of oneself and discover what it truly there, in all aspects. i'm 68, and am still discovering parts of myself, some of which i'm not too pleased about, but knowing them allows me the freedom to continue working with myself, on myself. it takes strength to explore the many facets of what makes us human. and then, it takes even more strength to stand up for our beliefs and convictions. being strong takes on many shapes, comes in many sizes. not everyone is able to accomplish such strength. all we can do is what we can do, whether it's perception of others or ourselves. such diversity of perspectives and perceptions is what keeps humankind from becoming boring!
Sandra wrote: "Aglaea wrote: "Tadej wrote: "And don't worry, you cannot see yourself in the characteristics, because everyone see the world as their mind is showing to them. Only someone else can describe you wit...":) I enjoy the mind and exploring it. We constantly learn new things about it, in particular once MRI became available as a tool to peek inside during normal function.
There is great peace in knowing the flaws, because it can't get much worse then. Usually we can keep working on becoming better and stronger, too, but I know many have no interest in self-improvement and also might not at all be in tune with themselves, but keep living sort of detached from the real self.
I am really sorry if I somehow offended you, Aglaea ;) I see that you describe my words as a rude. For this I am really sorry. I however did not mention nowhere, that I know you or others. I know my theory, but thank you for all your words. They gave me good thought that my expression in English is really lacking, because it is hard to present something like that.I didn't say anything about intimate attributes and that you can predict what others will say. I was thinking more as, if you read Horoscopes, and there you can find yourself in any sign, at some point. I will however leave this topic, as I need to find the right words. The offensive is never my purpose ;)
Take care!
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