Our Shared Shelf discussion
note: This topic has been closed to new comments.
Archive
>
Equality Around Us
date
newest »
newest »
message 1:
by
Savannah, Our Shared Shelf Moderator
(last edited Jan 09, 2016 12:15AM)
(new)
Jan 09, 2016 12:13AM
Mod
reply
|
flag
What I see around myself I can mention few problems 1: Employment - can be solved by reservations for females. But reservation should be done according to sex ratio of the area.
2: Domestic Violence- Can be solved by teaching the male of our society the forgotten morals
3: Abuse like harassment - can be stopped by doing the same thing like 2 or by asking females to kick the harassers below the belt
4: Low self confidence - we need more people like Emma Watson coming down to places inspiring females.
Peace
I think it's important to get rid of those sneaky comments that are often said without much thinking. Especially from authorities like teachers. I don't know how it works in other countries but I'm from Germany and I get them often from my (male) teachers in school. Their comments can be poison to the minds of younger pupil. It starts in 5th grade and goes on until one is done with school. They already put the kids into a role allocation: Girls can't handle heavy things, Boys shouldn't be so sensitive. I don't know how it'd be possible to ever get control over this or at least I haven't come up with a way yet.
Mod
I watch Masterchef Australia. In the 2015 season, one of the contestants, a male, said his parents did not want him to enter because they believed that "cooking was the profession of a female" and not that of a man. In actuality, worldwide, the female percentage of chefs only totals to roughly be about twenty percent. Around eighty perfect of professional chefs around the world are males, and yet, there are still people out there who believe that men should not cook because of gender stereotypes. Of course, people believing that woman should only be cooks is wrong, too, but this just goes to show that men are still facing oppression for following their dreams as well.
That's because you get paid to be a chef in restaurant but you don't get paid to be a chef in home. Add money to anything and male will be willing to do it. That's a cold truth about our world. If they can get money, they can be cook in a restaurant but they won't cook in house cause they are male.
I wouldn't say that's true. I grew up with my Mum working all week in another city and only coming home for the weekend. My Dad did all the cleaning stuff and he's a great cook. I think if we talk about 'cold hard truth' we forget about reality.
Mod
I feel that comment is somewhat harsh to the male populous. I know two of my male friends would love to cook, but they were never taught by their parents, specifically their fathers, because their fathers were either neglectful or deemed it unnecessary for then to learn to cook. I also know males who can cook better than me, and I have grown up cooking and working around kitchens. Some people have a natural talent, others can not boil rice without burning it. I knew a man who almost caused my microwave to explode by cooking me microwave popcorn for a movie night. The reason I brought up my example is because of the sexism faced in professional kitchens. Woman are expected to be the waitresses. I know this because, again, I know people who have worked in the hospitality industry all their lives. Men do not like their position as Head Chef challenged. This is not true for everyone, but this is an example. I don't mean to say men don't cook at home. I know at least three husbands off the top of my head who do all the cooking and cleaning and gardening for their wives since they work hard jobs, as does the man. The issue I have with it is that people still believe that cooking is a job of a woman, when really, anyone can cook, and they should be allowed to.
Sorry I think that isn't the case in western countries. Here in India this is what happens. I will remember to mention in my country next time.
What is going on in lndia sounds really awful. Here in Germany it's even cooler, if someone (he or she) is a good cook.
I'm not blaming the whole society. I'm just saying there are some people that can cook in a restaurant for money but won't cook in home cause it hurts their dignity... I'm blaming these type of people
I have friends that cook well and like cooking. They even cook at home during festivals and all. But there are some people who still think cooking should be done by women only. And when the same people act as cook in restaurants cause they pay them it feels awful
Mod
I wonder how different the world would be if money was not added into an equation. I am very interested in hearing about other countries and their situations though, so would you be able to tell me more about gender equality and inequality in your homeland?
Despite what you have been told, in the western world today almost all legal and lethal sexual discrimination is against men.Men are 97% of combat fatalities.
Men pay 97% of Alimony
Men make 94% of work suicides.
Men make up 93% of work fatalities.
Men make up 81% of all war deaths.
Men lose custody in 84% of divorces.
80% of all suicides are men.
77% of homicide victims are men.
89% of men will be the victim of at least one violent crime.
Men are over twice as victimised by strangers as women.
Men are 165% more likely to be convicted than women.
Men get 63% longer sentences than women for the same crime.
Court bias against men is at least 6 times bigger than racial bias.
Males are discriminated against in school and University.
Boys face vastly more corporal punishment than girls.
60-80% of the homeless are men.
Women's Cancers receive 15 times more funding than men's
At least 10% of fathers are victims of paternity fraud.
One third of all fathers in the USA have lost custody of children, most are expected to pay for this.
40-70% of domestic violence is against men however less than 1% of domestic violence shelter spaces are for men.
Male fatality rates are vastly higher than women's
Worldwide there are 107 men born for every 100 women, by age 65 there are 78 men for every 100 women, in countries like the USA & UK, its even worse, with 75/76 men for every 100 women. Despite the fact that health care spending for men is nearly twice as effective. In the few countries that have a majority male population and a preference for male children like China, Sons are legally obliged to care for parents when they are older, where as daughters are not. Many other countries like India have this as a social obligation. goo.gl/iZUcJJ
Despite all the pressures and risks facing men today support services for men are almost non existent compared to services for women. There are departments for women's issues in the White House and the UN, but none for men. The UN promotes genital mutilation of male children but condems female genital mutilation. This is Real Sexism.
THE REAL MONEY GAP.
Men earn 61.5% of all income but only account for 25% of domestic spending. Men only spend 40% of what they earn after tax. In contrast women make up 38.5% of all income but control 75% of domestic spending, women on average spend 90% MORE MONEY THAN THEY EARN. Men are exploited as cash machines and even with spending on children accounted for women still spend more money on themselves than the combined spending for men and children. This can even be observed in the floor space allocated to women's products in most shopping centres.
TAX & HEALTHCARE DISCRIMINATION
Men pay over 70% of income tax but the vast majority of public spending is on services for women. There is more money spent on breast cancer than lung cancer and prostate cancer combined, despite the fact that lung cancer alone has 3-4 times more fatalities than breast cancer. A man's chance of getting cancer is 44% and 23% of men will die from cancer, 38% of women get cancer and 19% die. Yet there is vastly more money spent on cancer for women, this is lethal discrimination. Women pay 60% less tax despite spending 300% more in domestic spending than men. Women also consume two third of public spending, there are 3 times the amount of gender specific health services for women than men despite the fact that for equal increases in health spending a man's life expectancy rate increases nearly twice as much as a woman's.
DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
There are hundreds of surveys which shows women are as violent if not more violent than men in domestic violence cases. Men get arrested in 85% of all arrests but its estimated that Women are the perpetrators in most Domestic Violence cases. Most reciprocal violence is started by women and 70% of non reciprocal violence is perpetrated by women. Women however only get arrested in 15% of all DV arrests. This example of 572 different studies covering 371,600 people demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners. http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assaul...
More men than women were victims of intimate partner physical violence and over 40% of severe physical violence was directed at men. http://www.batteredmen.com/NISVS.htm
Despite this though,99.3% of DV shelter spaces are for women and even men who report violence against them by women are arrested far more often than the woman who is attacking them.
Just letting women know that men have problems too...I mean it's not about who has more but, it would be nice if women could care about men and boys lots in life a little more. I mean "HeForShe" Men have to care about women's issues why can't women care about men and boys?
Mod
We do know and feminism works to solve those problems as well! Many of those statistics you list would be less extreme if gender role stereotypes were eliminated, and if hiring practices and pay were more equitable to women and other minorities.
The reason women spend more money (according to your statistic) is because gender roles make them responsible for the household, which include the expenses for her, her children, and her husband, plus any other household upkeep.
Women tend to get custody because they are labeled as the caregivers due to their gender.
You complain that money is spent on women who do not earn it or do pay the taxes. The reason social services are in place to help women more than men is because they have less earning potential and fewer job opportunities. Women and children make up a majority percentage of those in poverty. They need those social services, and governments tax the population in general because they need to help the least fortunate (regardless of gender). It just so happens that men on average tend to make more money, therefore they need the services less and pay more out in taxes.
I could go on to explain how most of these statistics reflect the gender role stereotypes and binaries that feminism seeks to eliminate. But I am also skeptical of some of these statistics, as they contradict many of the statistics that I have read in the past.
Feminism also focuses on issues such as problematic standards of masculinity, childcare inequity, sexual assault in prisons, male victims of sexual assault, etc., all of which are important for men.
If you don't want to be a part of the feminist movement, that is your prerogative. HeForShe exists as an open invitation to those that want to stand with us.
Savannah wrote: "As I have been reading the thread titles and the information within them, it got me thinking. In particular, it got me thinking about the positives and negatives around us on a daily basis. We are ..."I really like your thinking, The most positive statement on this site so far.
Not really, because men and women are different. And they do require different things. Feminism has not worked to take we away gender stereotypes but add them, at least against men and boys. To toxic masculinity, micro agresstion , rape culture, white male privilege, manplaining. the idea that men and women are the same and the reason for men being how they are is socially constructed. All take away male identity, all are designed to shame men and boys.
Mod
Define feminism: the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities.
When you look up how feminism is defined, this is the answer you will get. You say men and woman are different? Of course they are, and no one is saying otherwise. We require different things, yes, but that does not mean that the opposite gender should be barred or refused from having those things, too. Woman are not allowed to have front line roles in the military, for example, even though woman have proved multiple times that they can do it. In doing that, they have also beaten out male competition. Examples of such feats can be found here and here. All arguments in saying that woman cannot handle such a role in society are therefore null and void since, through rigorous training, that which males receive themselves, woman proved they could do it.
Now, I am not saying this is the only example around us. There are many, and there are many which go against males being able to do something as well. But what you are saying is unfounded in many cases. We are not trying to take away any "manliness" in the males around us. We are simply trying to make it that men should be allowed to cry and show emotions without getting t old to "grow a pair" and "quit acting like a girl".
In young ages, every child has emotions, just as how no one is born racist. Humanity has defined what they wish men and women to be and then forced that learning upon children. Over centuries, people have shaped people to fit a cookie cutter shape so as to meld with what people deem the social norm. So, what do you say to males out there who are feminists, or who are supports of gender equality? Do you think it is okay for woman to get told "swearing is unladylike" as though only men can swear? What do you think would happen if a class full of children grew up without any sort of gender stereotypes being fed to them in subtle and direct forms? Do you think that no man would cry when they were older? You keep repeating the same thing in every thread I have seen today, and I just want you to show some evidence of your claims. I am sure many others would like that as well.
Mod
James wrote: "Just letting women know that men have problems too...I mean it's not about who has more but, it would be nice if women could care about men and boys lots in life a little more. I mean "HeForShe" Me..."
Again, like I said, the definition of feminism is "the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities". HeforShe is simply asking men to come and support feminism, because, for the most part, until Emma Watson started to promote feminism so actively, very few men were involved. This was a way to get them involved. Is your problem that the word is "feminism" perhaps? That the word seems to lean towards the identification of woman over men? I understand that you are saying that men has issues to, I know they do. Woman have issues. Men have issues. The entire world has issues. Feminists are just one small, albeit growing, portion of the world who is hoping to tackle the issues of both genders in the world. If you have heard differently, then I hope you will learn more about the true meaning of being a feminist in this group, because I feel you have been sorely misguided.
Mod
If I have seemed to be angry, or harsh, I do apologize. I just leave you with this example of something which happened around me, so this is a personal, first hand experience I am going to recall to you all.
When I was in my first year at high school, the teacher who was the head of my house, as well as the gym teacher, called all the students of my house into the gymnasium for a start of the year speech. I can't remember anything he said, and you know why? All I can remember are the nasty comments people were saying about him. Do you want to know what they said? They were calling his voice "girly" and that he sounded like a "teenage girl" who hadn't gone through puberty yet.
I never agreed with that. It was not his choice to sound like he did, with a voice very high and tight. It was just how he was born and what his body grew up to be like. But do you know how feminism could stop this? Because, I am sure you agree with me here, those things are very emasculating and offense to a male. What feminism would be able to do is stop people applying gender labels to people. His voice was not "girly" at all, it was simply how he sounded, and if he was in a male minority, then he was in a male minority. End of story. Calling him "girly" was entirely uncalled for. This was a comment I head from both females and males, might I add.
It would be in the same league as saying a girl with facial hair "looks like a guy" just because she has facial hair. Do you think she can help how much hair her body produces? Do you think it is right for people to criticism her by calling her rude names? No, it is not okay. None of these labels are okay, no matter the reasoning behind them. Feminism seeks to remove the use of one gender against the other as an insult.
Savannah wrote: "If I have seemed to be angry, or harsh, I do apologize. I just leave you with this example of something which happened around me, so this is a personal, first hand experience I am going to recall t..."beautifully put Savannah! Feminsim is not about anger or hatred towards any sex. It's about removing all those obstacles so we can all treat each other with equality and respect.
James wrote: "Despite what you have been told, in the western world today almost all legal and lethal sexual discrimination is against men..."Sorry you feel this way James. As has been mentioned, gender stereotypes are an issue for everyone. I believe that most of us, if not all of the members of this group, hope that by embracing Feminism, we can begin to eradicate the negative impacts of gender stereotypes, men included! All of the statistics you listed above are negative results of gender stereotypes. More men are casualties of war because women are not stationed out on the front lines. A higher percentage of men make up work suicides. There is a lot of pressure for men to be "the provider" for their families and have successful careers. Women in general don't experience this much pressure in these areas because the role of the provider is still traditionally assigned to the man.
Since you've joined this group, I hope you'll take the time to read through the discussion boards and I hope you'll see that no one here is against you! No one wants their gender to dictate their quality of life.
Mod
Ratika wrote: "Savannah wrote: "If I have seemed to be angry, or harsh, I do apologize. I just leave you with this example of something which happened around me, so this is a personal, first hand experience I am ..."
Thanks, Ratika and Danielle! <3 It took me awhile to figure out just how to word it, haha. Rambling is the answer to most of my posting problems--just keep rambling, just keep rambling... *insert terrible Nemo quote why don't you*
I don't think gender quotas should be introduced at all. The best candidate should receive a post. What should happen, however, is to make sure that great candidates for leading positions are caught early on, regardless of gender, race, age, etc.As for "mansplaining", lol. I know many men, who love to hear their own voice. They are egotripping whether you want to admit it or not, whether you like to hear it or not. Some men get on a roll, when the topic is something traditionally "male", and no matter how much you try to stop them by telling them you do know your stuff, you have it under control, you didn't ask for advice, you might even know more than they do, they still just can't stop themselves. It's done in a rather condescending way, too, but lucky you if you haven't stumbled upon the phenomenon, it is rather annoying. Hence mansplaining.
Erin wrote: "There is a lot of pressure for men to be "the provider" for their families and have successful careers. Women in general don't experience this much pressure in these areas because the role of the provider is still traditionally assigned to the man."Not at all like that here in Northern Europe. None of my women friends are stay at home moms, but both parents are bread winners.
James wrote: "Just letting women know that men have problems too...I mean it's not about who has more but, it would be nice if women could care about men and boys lots in life a little more. I mean "HeForShe" Me..."A recent study was done--sorry, don't have the exact info.--that showed that at least 85 percent of women across the globe admitted that they treat their sons much better than they treat their daughters. The psychologist or sociologist, whichever it was--a male, too, gasp!--said that even women who were staunch feminists, lesbians, etc.--said to him, in some cases, tearfully, "Why am I doing this, Doc? I hated the way my mother always treated my brother(s) better than she did me!" And he said he had to tell these poor women that he didn't know why they did it. However, another psychologist or sociologist said he did a similar study with the same results & felt like he knew exactly why most mothers in the world do this; it's called being a power groupie since in most societies since the beginning of time have been ruled by men. All humans, not just mothers or even women, but all humans, heck even most of the non-human animals on the planet do it; evolution will select for the animals who know to stay in good with whoever's in power (unless/until you're a male who waits 'till you're old/strong enough to take over from the male in power).
So, James, if you've noticed instances of it seeming like females are treated better than males, it could likely have been some female just trying to level the playing field. And that may not *always* be the right thing to do; but anyone who has any kind of understanding whatsoever about human nature will understand how people can "overreact" *sometimes* after being pushed around; people can only take so much.
James wrote: "Despite what you have been told, in the western world today almost all legal and lethal sexual discrimination is against men.Men are 97% of combat fatalities.
Men pay 97% of Alimony
Men make 94% o..."
James, some of your talking points are highly suspect, and I question a number of them. Your post contains no citations to reputable sources.
For example, you claim that men are the victims of domestic violence 40 to 70% of the time that it occurs. However, the research into domestic violence reveals quite clearly that while domestic violence in the abstract between the sexes shows some parity, serious domestic violence injuries are much more commonly inflicted by men on women.
Men are more likely to be murdered (76.8%), but they are also more likely to be murderers (90.5%), and women are more likely to be the victims in domestic violence homicides (63.7%) and sex-related homicides (81.7%).
In addition, I take issue with anyone who claims that household money in a situation where two partners voluntarily choose to divide their labor so that one person works in the home and the other person works in the marketplace is only attributable to the employed party, which is what your statistics about making money and spending money amount to. I know what I'm talking about as well, because I am in a non-traditional marriage where I (the wife) make significantly more than my husband, who left the workforce for several years in order to take a primary caregiver role for our son, who was diagnosed with autism when he was two. As a consequence of that decision, which benefited me and my children just as much - if not more - than it benefited him, he has lost income and lost opportunities.
For me to turn around and claim that my money is my money and his money, well, doesn't exist, would be extremely unfair given that we decided together that he would sacrifice his career to raise our children, because my career was more lucrative than his could ever be.
Does this mean that if we were to end our marriage, I would be expected to make good on his lost income? Yes, it absolutely does. It does when it benefits women and it does when it benefits men. It is simple fairness - when one partner drops out of the economy at the request of the other partner to take on a caregiving role, both partners benefit from that decision and both partners should bear the risk as well as the reward. To do otherwise is to place all of the risk of a marriage failure on the person who is least able to bear the risk (the person who is un- or underemployed).
There is one thing that I will agree with, though. While I believe that we should abolish the draft, until we do, women as well as men should be required to register with the selective service. To assert otherwise fails to acknowledge the current state of our armed forces and the law with respect to women in combat roles. It's time to expand registration to women.
Lynn wrote: "James wrote: "Just letting women know that men have problems too...I mean it's not about who has more but, it would be nice if women could care about men and boys lots in life a little more. I mean..."I would be interested in seeing the study. While I'm not male, my younger sister always thought I was being treated better than her when I wasn't. But I think alot of this belief came from being younger.
Moonlight Reader wrote: "James wrote: "Despite what you have been told, in the western world today almost all legal and lethal sexual discrimination is against men.Men are 97% of combat fatalities.
Men pay 97% of Alimony
..."
Why does it matter who the victimizer is when we start talking about treating all victims fairly?
Jessica wrote: "Moonlight Reader wrote: "James wrote: "Despite what you have been told, in the western world today almost all legal and lethal sexual discrimination is against men.Men are 97% of combat fatalities..."
You might want to take a look at this thread, especially message 62 by Aglaea.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
This topic has been frozen by the moderator. No new comments can be posted.
