21st Century Literature discussion
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What qualities should a book have ....
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Hello Linda!Your question is really difficult to answer because I could probably go on and on to tell you why I liked one book and hated another. So I'll keep it fairly short...
As far as I am concerned I need to find a book well-written to enjoy it.
Over the time I have found out that when a book is written with poor literary quality I get bored. Sometimes I will finish it, but sometimes I will not take the trouble to go through it all. It's a waste of time. I have read some books that I know will probably never become classics and enjoyed them because the plot was well thought and the way the author had written was at least elegant.
I have also found out that a certain kind of novels really do not interest me. For example, I painstakingly finished Kerouac's On The Road (although I don't deny his quality as a writer), Vian's Foam of the Day (in French, as it is my mother-tongue, so no bad translation involved) or a book called Polococktail Party by
Dorota Maslowska.
I found all of them too weird for me and impossible to relate to.
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I'm impressed that you've read 45 of them - my total was only 17, with another 15 to 20 that I might consider reading in the future. For me that list is trying to cover too many populist bases - about half of the ones I have read were not ones I would count as favourites...
I have read many and have considered a few. I confess when I got to "Gone Girl," I started skimming the list. I have said ad nauseum that I thought that was one of the worst books I've ever read--if not the worst--and once I see that on a list, I kind of ignore the rest of the list's recommendations. I also wouldn't call any books on this list favorites.I enjoy a well written book, but for me I want to think about a book when I've closed the last page. I want to be challenged in the way I think about things when reading a book.
I also love character development. I don't need to like a character but I have to believe the character could be real. Going back to being challenged in my thinking, I don't have to "connect" to a character but he/she has to have qualities that make the story work.
Thanks for starting this discussion. Sometimes I find I read more about books than actual books!
I read that list a while back, too. I'm not sure what the criteria since dreadful and average books are on it, and truly great books aren't. I would go more by the Boxall's 1001 list or the Guardian newspaper's 1000 best novels lists.
I guess what bugs me most about the Amazon list is the suggestion that having read the 100 listed books someone could be considered "well read." It just ain't so. As Hugh notes, the list does seem to cover many "populist" bases, so the most I can say for the list is that someone who reads all 100 might be able to have something to discuss with anyone they meet, if they could figure out what populist base or bases that person might fall within! And perhaps being able to do that has some merit. Or perhaps if someone were to choose to take on the Amazon editors' list as a challenge, that person might find an author or subject they like and start reading more! It is just such a mismash of books. I do tend to read across a lot of territory, hence the 45, but my top 100 would not have included either of the two books I pointed to in the opening comment. And it definitely would not include Valley of the Dolls or On the Road, although I could make an argument for them as books that provide very different views of a period of time in America. I read and disliked both books and cannot recommend either as reading material.
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Most of the other GRers I come across, especially in this group, are "well-read", but there's always a gap somewhere (by time period or gender or genre or something).
I like lists because they spur discussion/debate and I occasionally find some new reads. If someone was purely interested in story telling and literature in general, I would think the myths of major cultures would be essential, possibly the holy books of the biggest religions, best novel/poetry collections, etc. Shakespeare isn't even on this list, right?
I do think there are many people who like having a list to complete--a clearly outlined challenge to take on. And these sort of hodgepodge lists seem aimed at those folks or people who have trouble choosing what to read.
Although I enjoy lists of books to read, or best books, or books "necessary" to be well read and while I might add one to my collection of such lists or pull a few titles for my own TBR list, I have reached a point of cynicism towards others. I'm afraid the Amazon category might fall in this latter group, at least as you all describe it. (I haven't gone looking for it.) I do periodically pull my two editions of Clifton Fadiman's Lifetime Reading Plan and consider where I've been and what is still or now of interest.I seem to particularly value a richness of language (particularly insightful or surprising figures of speech, metaphors or comparisons). Insights about humanity and towards situations encountered in my own life or in the media world around me are often of greater interest than particular characters themselves, although it can be rewarding to follow the journey of a character or simply to experience the craft with which a writer has or has not developed a particular individual. A good plot can be fun; for me, every year should have one book of such. (Last year's was The Time in Between.) Right now I have a sense of my reading skills evolving and changing rapidly, influenced both by discussions on these boards of what literature is/does and by dabbling in writing itself, providing a different perspective on reading.
If interested in a discussion on South American writers and writing, try here: Spanish & Latin American classics - Recommendations -- https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
PS -- just took a look at the list. Better than I expected! While I understand the comments here, particularly on Gone Girl and Valley of the Dolls, I am reminded of the women in my f2f reading group who insisted that we read something by Danielle Steel and Stephen King to give us at least some first-hand inkling as to who they were and their contributions as story tellers.
One group of writers that I perceive as widely unrecognized and under-read by the general populace are those that have been Neustadt winners and nominees: http://neustadtprize.org/history/#.Vo...
Marc wrote: "My question is always: "Well-read" compared to whom? Other readers, the general population, the "global village"... ? The title of the list says "A bucket list of books to create a well-read life....."Marc, you inspired me to do a bit of googling for "well-read" lists. One list included the following caveat that I think is absolutely true -- "if you're truly a well-read person, you will never feel well-read." See https://www.quora.com/What-books-shou.... But, my "research" also takes me back to the question of whether the criteria for books that make one "well-read" are different than the criteria that makes a book a classic. I've concluded that the answer is yes, if one interprets "well-read" as being well-rounded, i.e., the breadth of ones reading is great so that one has read a broad range the books that often appear in the top quarter of a various subject/genre lists.
Linda wrote: "...the breadth of ones reading is great so that one has read a broad range the books that often appear in the top quarter of a various subject/genre lists. ..."Is that physically possible, Linda? I believe we can be alert and aware and continuously stretching our comprehension of this universe in which we live, but I have come to despair of any possibility of being "well-read", let alone "well-rounded." That is not to say that I think the concept of being a "Renaissance Man" is totally without meaning to the 21st century, just more to say that we must find ways to participate in and contribute to increasingly global communities from positions that we somehow recognize as constricted and limited by our human physical and mental limitations in time and space.
All of which is probably just another way of saying what you wrote with: "One list included the following caveat that I think is absolutely true -- 'if you're truly a well-read person, you will never feel well-read.'"
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Great links, Lily!
Lily wrote: "PS -- just took a look at the list. Better than I expected! While I understand the comments here, particularly on Gone Girl and Valley of the Dolls, I am reminded of the women in my f2f reading group who insisted that we read something by Danielle Steel and Stephen King to give us at least some first-hand inkling as to who they were and their contributions as story tellers.One group of writers that I perceive as widely unrecognized and under-read by the general populace are those that have been Neustadt winners and nominees: http://neustadtprize.org/history/#.Vo... "
Cannot resist responding to the references to Steele and King -- Danielle Steele is beach reading for me. I only read her books in the used book, mass market edition because because I did not care how much sand got in and lotion got on the book. I found the every book of hers I read had the same structure and plot and was quite repetitious, which allowed for skim reading! Stephen King on the other hand I have found to be quite good, (e.g., Hearts in Atlantis and Under the Dome), although I have not read his "horror" books, such as Carrie and The Stand. (I have read his son's (Joe Hill) horror and enjoyed them!)
And thanks for the Neustadt link. I now have the 2016 winner on my TBR list.
Marc wrote: "Linda, I think your singling out On the Road is a perfect example of the potential difference between a "classic" and a book that might make one "well-read" (it's kind of a touchpoint ..."I did not like On the Road, but Kerouac seems to be the author picked to represent the "Beat Generation." The Library of America (which has as a mission "to curate and publish authoritative new editions of America’s best writing, including acknowledged classics, neglected masterpieces, and historically significant documents and texts") has published 3 volumes of his works -- https://www.loa.org/writers/229-jack-....
Linda wrote: "...I found the every book of hers I read had the same structure and plot and was quite repetitious, which allowed for skim reading! Stephen King on the other hand I have found to be quite good..."Fun summary, Linda! We laughed at the array of ways stiletto heels were incorporated into whatever it was we read. But one of the strong business women in our group didn't allow us to dismiss Steele's commercial success.
We have actually read two of King's books, unusual for us to accord any author.
And thanks for the Neustadt link. I now have the 2016 winner on my TBR list.
Let us know what you think. I am finally in the middle of Mistry's A Fine Balance (2012). One of my f2f reading colleagues, who has traveled several times to India in her work, considers it her favorite of all books. I'm not sure I'll put it there, even for India, but certainly a fine read.
Marc wrote: "Great links, Lily! ..."Thanks, Marc. So help me, I will get to Baby No Eyes this year. I have probably had it since Patricia Grace received her award in 2008! I was sorry to note the death of Assia Djebar in 2015. She is one of the very few great writers with whom I've had the privilege of an email, even if it may have come from her secretary. I had hoped to hear her speak somewhere when she was residing in NYC, but she was back in Europe at the time and the occasion never arose.
I was fascinated to see what the conversants identified as great SA writers and writing.
Aanother thanks for the Neustadt link, though since I've reached the point of not buying books anymore, not sure I'll find these in my library! I have started reading many more foreign authors and they seem to speak to me. I definitely see my reading taste changing as I age.
Anita wrote: "Another thanks for the Neustadt link, though since I've reached the point of not buying books anymore, not sure I'll find these in my library! I have started reading many more foreign authors and ..."Glad it was of interest, Anita. Hopefully you are in a library system that should have these authors somewhere in one of their collections. Or that there is a college/university affiliated library nearby with them where you can finagle lending privileges. Or that you can ask your library to use any Friends of Library donation you might make for authors such as these. (I have made similar requests where something I had to go beyond my library system to find I considered worthy enough and of sufficient possible interest to make available within the system. Yes, I could have (in one case, did as well) bought for my own collection, but sometimes it both saves my shelf space and hopefully serves the broader community. And not all Friends organizations are supportive...but anyway....)
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If having it since 2008 is bad for you, you'd cringe at how long it takes me to get to certain titles (just now getting to a copy of Anti-Oedipus: Capitalism and Schizophrenia I've had since last millennium (ok, maybe it was toward the very end of last millennium, but we're still talking near 20 years).
Is there a Djebar book you'd recommend as a first read?
Linda, I was also unimpressed by On the Road.
Marc wrote: "Is there a Djebar book you'd recommend as a first read?..."Children of the New World is where I started. My own records (and memory) are fuzzy as to what I've actually read, but Women of Algiers in Their Apartment should be another good candidate. One of the problems with Djebar's work has been the quality of the translations (despite her work in the U.S. and her own inclusion in the Académie française). At one time I knew some details that I have now let slip away, Marc. But a few minutes of google time should provide what you would need. I do love the way she can evoke the milieu and strains and interactions of a world far from the one I know.
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In reading the many responses, I'd say my own definition of "well-read" would include a lot more "classics" and more classics from a variety of countries and cultures.
If you're a dedicated reader, 100 books isn't much, but if you're not much of a reader, 100 books could take a lifetime.
What would you say are the biggest gaps in your own reading (with the idea being that a "gap" is actually something you want to explore)?
I have at least 3 gaps I'm working to fill - classics (including sci fi), non-English authors, and non-fiction. One gap/genre I do not intend to work on filling is "romance!"
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A lot depends on how far back one wants to go. Here's an interesting Timeline of Literary Periods, but even that starts a good 3,000 years after literature's start in Sumeria.
[Sigh.] So much to pick from in such a short lifetime...
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The Sad, Beautiful Fact That We're All Going To Miss Almost Everything
She divides people's responses into culling - dismissing whole areas of culture as irrelevant; and surrendering - admitting there are great and worthwhile things that we will just never get to.
"It is the recognition that well-read is not a destination; there is nowhere to get to, and if you assume there is somewhere to get to, you'd have to live a thousand years to even think about getting there, and by the time you got there, there would be a thousand years to catch up on."
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I have many, many gaps in my reading. Right now the one I feel most behind on is weird fiction. I grew up reading the 'classics'; Lovecraft, Machen, Bloch, Blackwood etc.., then largely set the genre aside for many years. Now there's this whole explosion of amazing writers of weird fiction. They dominate my "to read" list, and are barely represented on my "already read" list.
And more international fiction is always a wish. Luckily there are some great weird writers from places like Pakistan and Scandinavia, so I can occasionally tackle two gaps with one book.
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Whitney wrote: "I love this article from Linda Holmes on the subject of how we can never experience all the wonderful things there are to read / watch / listen to / visit: The Sad, Beautiful Fact That We're All G..."
Great article! Thanks Whitney.
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At some point of time, and it may have been in the midst of discussion of a novel, a number of us commented on literary vs, commercial fiction, I recall it as a great discussion.A number of you might find this article from The New York Times Book Review interesting: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/21/boo...
I hope some of you enjoy the two writers' perspectives.
Thanks for the link Maureen. I enjoyed their perspectives and even found the reader comments to be interesting. Like a couple of the commenters, I too think John D. MacDonald was good -- with both plot and character!I think some books (probably Fifty Shades of Grey) can be immediately tagged as non-literary, but other "commercial" fiction may well end up being considered literary. After all, as one reviewer noted, Dickens, in his time, was a pulp writer - paid by the word, I think. So, for me, commercial fiction might also qualify as literary fiction and vice versa but in both categories there will be outliers!
A book should ... poke me.By that, I mean that it should bring up some emotion within me. Either make me smile, grin, laugh, think, ponder, cry - but make me "feel" something.
I have recently read two new releases which were both, not badly written - but they felt awefully distant and I found it hard to relate with the characters.
Also - I love books that are: crisp.
"Dept. of Speculation" for example - it contained a message, moved me, had me thinking and laughing at times ... but what made it so unique was that is was straight to the point.
In contrary, "A Little Life" felt too heavy. Pain and suffering stretched over 700 pages was too much, for my personal taste. It was far too detailed.
21st Century Literature
Books mentioned in this topic
Fifty Shades of Grey (other topics)The New York Times Book Review (other topics)
Children of the New World (other topics)
Women of Algiers in Their Apartment (other topics)
Anti-Oedipus: Capitalism and Schizophrenia (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Sarah MacLean (other topics)Assia Djebar (other topics)
Assia Djebar (other topics)
Patricia Grace (other topics)
Rohinton Mistry (other topics)
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Of the 45 books that I've read, here's a couple I liked but would have trouble producing an argument that they belong on the list -- Born to Run: A Hidden Tribe, Superathletes, and the Greatest Race the World Has Never Seen and A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius. I think the criteria for what makes a person well read may somewhat differ from what makes a book a classic (a status to which neither of these comes close). Thoughts?