2025 Reading Challenge discussion
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Ulysses
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Ulysses by James Joyce
I have my book have started reading. Have any of you started? How do we want to discuss this book? I guess as long as we mark spoilers it won't matter what pace we go at.
I had started this book but set it aside for the May Buddy Read. I have both the Kindle and Audible versions, and I think this is one that is well-suited to using the immersion reading on a Kindle Fire. I like John Lee's narration, but this is a book that I find requires focus. Listening to his voice in my ears while my eyes read along is the best way to accomplish that!
Some pictures may help us along.http://jamesjoycetower.com/
I have the audible, the book, and The Teaching Companies guide to Ulysses. I enjoy looking things up.
I also looked up
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Pa...
Since I am not discussing anything I wouldn't think these links are creating issues for people who have not read the first chapter. Right?
May I join this reading challenge discussion? Are y'all moving forward with reading/discussing Ulysses?
Francis, our plan is to read Ulysses in May and June, so today is Day 1. You're certainly welcome to join us!
Francis wrote: "May I join this reading challenge discussion? Are y'all moving forward with reading/discussing Ulysses?"Thanks Theresa. Is there a reading plan?
Francis, the Buddy Reads I've participated in here have not been structured, and there is not a reading plan at the moment. Would you like to suggest one?I had started reading this book earlier, but put it off once I found there was going to be a buddy read. From what I had read, I think this is a good book but requires concentration. The book as written has a table of contents that is literally, "I, II, III." I have found that Joyce had later done a schema for friends that structures the book in 18 episodes linked to The Odyssey by Homer. You can find more on that here.
If you can go to Audible.com and search for Ulysses narrated by Jim Norton, you'll find a link to a 74 page.pdf done by Naxos which lays out the episodes with the sentences at the start of each. This could be helpful no matter which format you're using - audio, e-book, or DTB.
All that being said, would you want to set milestones for those who want structured reading? The audio versions run 27 hrs 21 min to 30 hrs, and there are 18 episodes. If we want to read this over 2 months, we could shoot for:
5/1-7 Episodes 1-2
5/8-14 Episodes 3-4
5/15-21 Episodes 5-6
5/22-31 Episodes 7-9
6/1-7 Episodes 10-11
6/8-14 Episodes 12-13
6/15-21 Episodes 14-15
6/22-30 Episodes 16-18
If you use the audio estimate of 30 hours for the book, this works out to 1 2/3 hours per episode, so you'd be reading 3 1/3 hours in the weeks with 2 episodes and 5 hours for the 3 episodes at the end of the month.
I'm also doing the Buddy Read for 1Q84 and have my TBR Twin read plus other book commitments, so I think this schedule is good for me. If anyone else would like to do the same, that would be great!
I will try to do this schedule. Thank you organizing us.
Theresa:Re: message 8. I couldn't find the 74 page pdf by Naxos. Do you have a link?
Fran
Francis wrote: "Theresa:Re: message 8. I couldn't find the 74 page pdf by Naxos. Do you have a link?
Fran"
http://www.audible.com/pd/Classics/Ul...
Try the link above. It takes you to the page with the audiobook of Ulysses narrated by Jim Norton. Scroll down to the Publisher Summary and right above "(P)2004 NAXOS AudioBooks Ltd" you should see a link titled "Download the accompanying reference guide." It's not underlined, but if you mouse over, you can tell it's a link.
Thanks for the schedule. I'll aim to stick to it. I've already read 1-3 but that just means I'll have less to read next week when I'm more busy.
I have read the first three sections too. But I have also reread these chapters and tried to understand (the first two) better. When it came to section 3 I imagined walking on the beach. The water moving in and out. This is enough to help you appreciate the moving streams of consciousness that Joyce is writing in. You can't hold on to a wave before it retracts and that is what seems to happen as you read section three.I am reading a college handbook on writing. One of the exercise is to do branching. A type of brain storming where you put a theme or subject in the middle of a page and branch out from there as many different connections as you can think of and the return to the core word and branch out again.
I thought this might be a great way to absorb these 18 sections...and a good way to review them in a glance.
The handbook is written by the professor that did the audible discussion on Ulysses, James A. W. Heffernan. It is called Writing A College Handbook. FYI.
Got it. Thanks. Will proceed with the Plan!
Is this where we discuss our reading also?I would like to comment that one thing I've he joyed the most about Ulysses is Joyce's references to Irish history. As a non-professional student of Irish it adds a great deal to the tale for me?
I also appreciate the context of Ulysses. Set in early 20th century Ireland it makes me think that sometimes I can share that context with Joyce.
Bothered is a real good audio reading of Ulysses on Librivox (version 2).
Has anyone heard of the podcast Re:Joyce? I can't recall the author right now but it is fabulous.
Do y'all know there is a Ulysses group on Yahoo. Wealth of info.
Lastly the version I am reading is the Oxford World's Classics 1922 text. It is amazing for it's supporting documentation.
Peace, good reading, Happy Mother's Day, and God bless,
Fran
Francis wrote: "Is this where we discuss our reading also?I would like to comment that one thing I've he joyed the most about Ulysses is Joyce's references to Irish history. As a non-professional student of Irish..."
Hi Francis, this is definitely where you discuss your reading just be mindful of spoilers is the only stipulation we make.
Hello, Fran. I've had a busy week, so I haven't gotten much past the 1st two episodes. I know I'll finish the next two by the 14th. I do like the whole context of Ireland, and I think that using the Kindle/Audio whispersync enhances this. I have both the John Lee and Jim Norton recordings, plus the Kindle versions that tie to each. I love John Lee's Irish voice, but I also like the way Jim Norton actually sings the songs.
The book is complex, so I'm reading the text with John Lee, then doing a review with Jim Norton. Our schedule is working well for doing this, so I'll stick to it.
If anyone didn't know, Stephen Dedalus is the protagonist in Joyce's A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, which I read recently as prologue to Ulysses. I liked that one, hence the decision to tackle the book I've been told was a major challenge!
I have found that I would be lost without the professor. I have already given a link for it. I think that he has helped me see how you have to have an understanding of Ulysses (mythology) in order to understand what Joyce is trying to create with his prose. After he shows me what to look for I read it and then it makes sense. Before it would take quite a bit more studying than I wish to give to this book.Realised I didn't give a link. Here it is:
http://mobile.audible.com/productDeta...
Yes, I think this is one book that it's definitely good to have background knowledge about and maybe read up on each bit as you read it. I'm glad I read The Odyssey so that I can get a better idea of the parallels between it and Ulysses. I've decided to do the same as many of you and listen to it on audio while I read because it really makes you focus. It's also slower than just reading, which means it has more time to sink in and for you to appreciate what's been written. I'm listening to the same Librivox recording as Francis.
I haven't read any more than the first 3 parts because of exams so I'm glad for the relaxed paced schedule. I wouldn't have the time and energy to read much more of Ulysses while I'm supposed to be working hard for school.
Listening to podcast re:Joyce by Frank Delaney. Did y'all know that Buck Mulligan's real life character became an Irish senator?
Fran, I had heard that before.As to my progress, it's been a busy week at work, plus I had some life issues eat up my reading time, so I'm falling a bit behind. Next week we have 2 out of town conferences, so it may be the following week before I'm up-to-date here.
I haven't made any progress due to exams but this is my last week at school (possibly ever) so next week I'll be able to catch up. :)
Francis wrote: "Listening to podcast re:Joyce by Frank Delaney. Did y'all know that Buck Mulligan's real life character became an Irish senator?"I didn't know this. What does this say about senators? They are witty?
I am starting chapter 8 today. I read will listen to the over view, read the chapter and then listen to the over view again.
I found a great site today.It has images devoted to Ulysses.
Check it out:
http://www.joyceimages.com/
That website books really good, Cosmic. Some great pictures there.
Sorry to say that I've fallen behind on my reading. I have a crucial meeting with a neurosurgeon on Tuesday, and that's weighing heavily on my mind. I'll check in here again next week.
Cosmic - that is an awesome website. Thank you. Theresa - May God bless you with any issues you may be having.
Thank you, Francis. My husband and I are counting the hours now until my appointment.
Theresa~OctoberLace wrote: "Sorry to say that I've fallen behind on my reading. I have a crucial meeting with a neurosurgeon on Tuesday, and that's weighing heavily on my mind. I'll check in here again next week."I will keep you in my thoughts. Let us know how you are doing.
I have been reading chapter 8 and there are some interesting things that are coming together for me here. I have been waiting for people to start reading/discussing the book but I think tomorrow I will just start in myself marking it as a "spoiler".
If any of you are reading 1Q84, I hope you don't mind that I'm posting the same story there.I know I fell behind on this book, but I can now share what went on in the past couple of weeks. I had an MRI due to some severe headaches in the middle of the night, and my doctor called on 5/16 saying I had to see a neurosurgeon ASAP, mentioning possible cancer. The first appointment I could get with the neurosurgeons she recommended was this past Tuesday, 5/27. On Friday I came home from work and got my referral papers with a diagnosis of Gliomatosis Cerebri, a very aggressive inoperable brain cancer with an average life expectancy of 14.5 months. My husband and I were devastated! We went to my neurosurgery appointment just praying he'd have some hope for us.
Well....my awesome neurosurgeon, who works exclusively with brain tumors, told us the radiologist had gone way overboard in his diagnosis. I now have an official diagnosis of "benign neoplasm of the brain" about the size of a small grape. The neurosurgeon said it's size, shape, and position, along with his study of the MRI slides, give no indication of any cancer at all. The "little grape" may have been in my brain since childhood, and if a repeat MRI in 3 months shows no change, he recommends we just leave it alone.
Now that that's over, I can get back to reading instead of staring at books with my mind elsewhere. I'll catch up in June.
Wow, Theresa that's great news! You must have been terrified but then delighted. I'm glad you'll be okay (and also glad that I'm not the only one behind on this book). Enjoy the read. :)
I am relieved that you are over your scare. But that was huge! I can't imagine concentrating on anything let alone Ulysses.Glad you are ok.
So glad to have this as a buddy read. I'm spacing it over the month, will follow the discussion, and probably consult a guide or two. I really struggled with Portrait of the Artist.
I have been taking notes. I have been thinking about how to read this book. At first I was trying to read it conventionally. Now I am starting to think of all the different ways I could absorb this bookThe first was thorough a filter. I started reading this book because I just thought it might give me a clue to the Catcher. In two ways it has...so far. The one is the way it filters readers. Not e everyone is going to be able to read this book because of the anti religious bias...same as CATCHER.
The second way that I thought about reading it is the way it was written..in streAms of consciousness. Wonder if I just write down the phrases, words that speak to me and then see how they might fit together, kinda like a poem.
Another way is reading it forward and then reading it backwards....or reading my notes from the last chapter to the first and seeing a different relationship between the ideas presented.
Joyse talks a lot about different perspectives. The word was Parallax- the effect whereby the position or direction of an object appears to differ when viewed from different positions e.g. through a view finder and the lens of a camera.
Sometime Joyce does this even in how he spells a word...in two parts rather than as a compound as we would normally write it.
I have also started listening and studying Hamlet...just to give myself another filter or Parallax.
How is everyone doing on reading this book....where are you? I have finished chapter 8 and am now taking notes.
So I have been taking notes and randomly thinking about Ulysses. I came up with a metaphor for how I am approaching the book. Ulysses to me is like an ocean of words. In that ocean there are some words that are more significant to my taste than others. It could be because of what I have been reading or different contexts that have presented itself in my life or maybe connections that Joyce makes as I keep reading. At any rate I am finding reading this book fascinating as I have to remain very creative in my approach. I also approached The Catcher in the Rye this way and I really see a lot of parallels in the writing. I plan to get through with my note taking on chapter 8 today and begin chapter 9.
Cheese "Yum Kipper spring cleaning of inside. Peace and war depend on some fellow's digestion. Religion. Christmas turkey and geese. Slaughter of the innocent. Eat, drink and be merry. Then casual wards full after. Heads bandaged. Cheese digests all but itself. Mighty cheese."
I decided to look up cheese and see what this might relate to. In the spirit of streams of consciousness I am just going to write down what I found on Wikipedia.
Observation that the effect of making milk in an animal stomach gave more solid and better texture curds may have led to the deliberate addition of rennet.
Europe - less salt and acidity. The cheese became a suitable environment for useful microbes and molds, giving aged cheeses their respective flavor. (Religion?)
Ancient Greek mythology credited Aristaeus with the discovery of cheese. The Cyclops made and stored sheep's and goat's milk cheese.
"The moon is made of green cheeses." (Not the color but being new or unaged)
1881 Jesse Williams, dairy farmer from Rome, NY, started making cheese in an assembly-line fashion using milk from neighboring farms. The 1860's saw the beginning of mass_producing rennet,nand by the turn of the century scientist were producing pure microbial cultures.
Before then bacteria in cheesemaking had come from the environment or from recycling an earlier watch's whey.
While Renner was traditionally produced via extraction from the inner mucosa of the fourth stomach chamber of slaughtered young unearned calves.
The harder the harder the cheese, the more pressure is applied. The more press drives out moisture. The molds are designed to allow water to escape- and unifies the curds into a single solid body.
I finished chapter 7 today and get have actually begun to really appreciate it more. I like your metaphor that it is like an ocean of words. I've even found that James Joyce has changed some words to fit how he'd like to write them, but these part words are not actually real. I'll read your other comments when I read chapter 8 probably tomorrow morning.
I'm now half way through episode 10 and I've got to say it seems to just keep getting better. I've already accepted that I won't be able to pick up everything on the first read. I'll just have to re-read in a few years and hopefully each time I'll pick up more.It seems the book is full to the brim of little things which are very clever but I doubt it's possible to understand them all fully without a huge background knowledge of countless things. I'm loving all the literary references even though I've barely read any of the books or plays discussed. It makes me excited to devour all the books and then come back and read it again sometime. I doubt I'd get everything out of it even then because you'd have be very highly educated on very specific things to fully appreciate it. Still, I'm enjoying it very much now. I've finally seen how wonderful stream of consciousness can be when you get used to it. Right now, I'm just enjoying it as a reader rather than trying to pick up on all the literary devices used.
Is everyone else enjoying it?
I'm participating in a team challenge on another group, so I'm reading 7 books for that this week. That ends on Saturday, and then I plan to get caught up with Ulysses. I'll check in again Sunday night with an update.
I am on chapter 10. I have accepted the fact that I am not on a race to finish this book. But I appreciate the schedule as it keeps me from obsessing to know everything. I read each chapter three times or more...just because I have to to get what I want out of my reading. I have not read the Odyssey yet but notice that I am relating to it via the professor that I am listening to. I knew Hamlet was going to become a main theme so I watched a movie and am now reading/audible called Smart Pass. I didn't think I would ever enjoy Shakespeare so much. It is getting me excited for more.Lilac it is exciting for me to read how excited you are ahead of me. Thanks for reading this at the same time.
I have also been taking notes. I hope that when I read through my notes I will discover more patterns. The streams of consciousness reminds me of what Hemingway said about the iceberg theory.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceber...
E
Hemingway love James Joyce and I wouldn't be surprised that the streams of consciousness style was the reason.
Lilac I would love it if you could point to a quote or idea that became new for you because of what you have been reading. Just would enjoy more discussion.
I wonder if the kindle books you are using are better than mine. Mine said it was annotated but other than an introduction I don't see any other notes in the text.What is your experience or expectation when a book is suppose to be annotated?
Hm, mine isn't annotated so I couldn't tell you. What I've been doing is just looking on website like shmoop when I feel like I want to know more.I enjoyed reading a lot of their conversations. It seems like the other characters have some interesting ideas.
“bosh! Stephen said rudely. A man of genius makes no mistakes. His errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.”
I like this quote because I find it interesting. It's likely true with some people. I like the simplicity of how the idea is expressed; it's very concise.
“What's in a name? That is what we ask ourselves in childhood when we write the name that we are told is ours.”
This one too. I don't think names are usually as important today than they were then but it's just presenting another interesting idea, that could result in an interesting discussion.
"Interesting only to the parish clerk. I mean, we have the plays. I mean when we read the poetry of King Lear what is it to us how the poet lived?"
This one's not necessarily a new idea but it's an idea I've thought of a few times. Does is matter what an author has done in his/her life? I think there is no answer. On the one hand like said above, it is their work that is important. If we have great books/plays/poetry what does it matter how the author did or didn't live? Yes, through gaining insight into their lives it may be possible to pick up on more things in their work, but it's really the work itself that is important.
It's just that thing: can you love a work without loving its creator? Surely someone who creates a masterpiece must be great too. Also, if an author lives completely wrong in one aspect of their life, wouldn't that present itself in their work?
For example (slightly off topic here), I'm a big fan of the books Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead. I think they're very good books that show a deep understanding of human nature as well as presenting some very deep ideas. However, after I read the books I found out that Orson Scott Card is racist, homophobic and bigoted. Now that I know that, if I read the books more closely would I find some very racist and anti-gay underlying themes? Is an author's personality imprinted into his/her art so much that the art subtly suggests that the reader should feel the same way? If so then it's definitely important how an author lives. If an author is violent to his wife then will there be suggestions that this is an acceptable thing to do somewhere in his works? As George Orwell has said, “all art is propaganda,” so if an author has some ideas or habits that are entirely immoral, they are bound be be in his/her work and subtly persuade the reader to think the same way. Therefore, this side of the argument means that is certainly is very important “how the poet lived”.
As you can see, I'm still in two minds.
Sorry, that was long and a little bit off topic, but I like how James Joyce just has these little snippets that make you start to think more deeply about things.
Now, all those quotes were more idea quotes rather than text quotes, but if I do find any passage that has been worded very nicely and creatively, I’ll post that too.
I didn't know Hamlet would be a big part of it but reading that section has actually persuaded me to start reading it. So far I'm enjoying Hamlet more than Macbeth and Romeo and Juliet and I like how I can think about the ideas in Ulysses as I read.
I would like to discuss what is in a name. I am not really discussing this within the context on Ulysses because I am not sure where this quote is. But personally I think that names are very important. I think that your mother sets you up when she names you. In the case of Stephen (just thought of this) he was the first martyr after Christ crucifixion. I believe he was stoned to death by Paul.
Ok here is a link...http://www.bibletutor.com/level1/prog...
So in light of how guilty Stephen feels maybe even his name accuses him.
But I digress because I just want to talk about naming a child. When I named mine mistook it very seriously. I wanted the. Child to be able to be remembered by name. I had read in how to win friends and influence people that a name was very important to a person. But my mother who was a school teacher said that the children with unique names had a difficult time making friends because other children could not remember their names.
As for poet and how he lives....well a poet is a philosopher. He condenses what he thinks down. I don't think someone that writes a novel is just telling a story. He most likely is conveying an idea. He wants people to think as he thinks. To see the world as he sees it.
I don't think that I am just going to take a blind eye to Joyce's anti religious bent when reading Ulysses. I hope to go in with my eyes wide open and yet to allow the author a chance to persuade me of his point of view. Or challenge my own to the point that my religious conviction gets stronger.
I am also of two minds. I like to argue for and against a certain way of seeing something so I get a more three-dimensional view of it.
I will come up with something that I have read recently in Hamlet that reminded me of something in Ulysses.
Now, Hamlet, where's Polonius?Ham.
At supper.
King.
At supper! where?
Ham. Not where he eats, but where he is eaten: a certain convocation of politic worms are e'en at him. Your worm is your only emperor for diet: we fat all creatures else to fat us, and we fat ourselves for maggots: your fat king and your lean beggar is but variable service,—two dishes, but to one table: that's the end.
King.
Alas, alas!
Ham. A man may fish with the worm that hath eat of a king, and eat of the fish that hath fed of that worm.
King.
What dost thou mean by this?
Ham. Nothing but to show you how a king may go a progress through the guts of a beggar.
This reminds me of chapter 8. I have not completely thought this out,...but it strikes me that a beggar will eat a king by using a maggot that eats the king, to fish for a fish. When he eats the fish he has consumed the king.
This was supposed to be an insult to the king which is supposed to be appointed by God to divine rule.
Started Ulysses chapter 9. I finished Hamlet and hope this will help my understanding of this chapter.(view spoiler)
Ah, I noticed the mention of the word Rye a lot too and even though I haven't read The Catcher in the Rye, it did make me think of that book. I actually didn't know that that is a poem by Shakespeare so thanks for mentioning it.On the subject of names I suppose it could be true about a more unusual name being harder for other children to remember but I also think it can be a problem when multiple people have the same name, so if I was naming a child I wouldn't pick an extremely popular one. Some people in my year have the same first and last name and we have to distinguish them by by their hair colour. When people have the same first name they get confused when they aren't sure if they are being called/talked to or if someone else is.
I too have finished Hamlet now and I think it has helped me understand what I've already read a bit more. I've now finished chapter 11 too and I need to finish the whole book by the 26th to return it to the library.
You are doing fantastic. I started reading chapter 9 yesterday. I then listened to it again. I just can't do one pass. I feel like I am learning another language and so my style of learning that language is immersion.But I understand what you are doing and I am pleased you are planning on finishing it so soon.
I wonder how others are doing?
I found a link about Ulysses and Intertextuality.
http://dm2-word-view.officeapps.live....
I haven't read it all but it looks really good.
Bloom day is June 16, tomorrow. How should we celebrate? What foods should we eat? What passage should we read? Any ideas?
2025 Reading Challenge
Books mentioned in this topic
Ulysses (other topics)Decadence: And Other Essays on the Culture of Ideas (other topics)
Ulysses (other topics)
The Odyssey (other topics)
La Culture Des Idées (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Homer (other topics)Homer (other topics)
Orson Scott Card (other topics)
Homer (other topics)
***Please remember to mark spoilers.***
Participants:
Theresa-OctoberLace, Cosmic, Cassandra, Ramesh, Francis