Ulysses by James Joyce

[Lilac]

Oh, yes we really should celebrate somehow. Haha if only we could go to Dublin and celebrate properly. Well first I've downloaded Hi Liked Thick Word Soup which is an app that sounds fun and could enhance the reading experience by making us appreciate the intricacy of James Joyce's sentences. I read a while ago that James Joyce spent a whole day deciding what in order to put the words in one sentence in Ulysses. I can't find that on the internet but it was an English Literature University textbook so I'm sure it was reliable. I'm sure that app would showcase the effort he put into perfecting his work.

I don't think I would like to eat the actual sort of food he eats, especially not his breakfast. It's just really not to my taste:

"Mr Leopold Bloom ate with relish the inner organs of beasts and fowls. He liked thick giblet soup, nutty gizzards, a stuffed roast heart, liverslices fried with crustcrumbs, fried hencods’ roes. Most of all he liked grilled mutton kidneys which gave to his palate a fine tang of faintly scented urine.
Kidneys were in his mind as he moved about the kitchen softly, righting her breakfast things on the humpy tray."

If there's any other food that is related maybe we could eat/make that instead?

Hm, I'll try thinking of more ideas in the morning.

[Theresa~OctoberLace]

I'm back to reading Ulysses again after my team reading challenge last month. Since I had so much going on last month, I started over and am reading an episode or more a day, which I started on Sunday.

My posts, though, will be limited. I broke my wrist on Saturday, so I'm working with a stylus on my iPad for now.

[Cosmic]

http://jamesjoyce.ie/bloomsday/

Found this link. I need to plan better next year. I finished chapter 9 and 10. The professor said that some people describe these chapters as dark holes. I thought the words were fun...but I am not much of a word person. Wish I was. I met a lady yesterday that when I told her I was reading Ulysses said that she loved that book. She told me of how she and a male friend used to randomly open it and read it out loud. She said it was a book that was better to be heard than read. I told her that I thought it would be hard for me to read it myself...(I never did enjoy Dr.Seuss like my friends because I had trouble with phonetic. It was an auditory problem and not that I didn't know the sounds individually. But there is a lot going on in the brain when we read.) But if you are a word person tell me how you are enjoying Ulysses differently from me who is more analytical.

I could see where a word like supercalifagilistic-expealodoshous (Mary Poppins) could be inspire from.

I am relistening to the professor before going on to chapter 11.

[Lilac]

That's good Theresa, hope you're enjoying it and that your wrist gets better soon.

Sometimes I'm a word person but not usually, Cosmic. I have been listening to some parts and reading other parts and I've got to say the listening can be very good and sometime makes it easier to get the right feel to what's written.

[Cosmic]

Something that I have been thinking about today, comes from the link about intertextuality that I posted # 49.

This has to do with words and one of the ways I do like to think about words:

"Odysseus' heroic trait is his metis, or "cunning intelligence"; he is often described as the "Peer of Zeus in Counsel" 11 .T his intelligence is most often manifested by his use of disguise and deceptive speech. His disguises take forms both physical (altering his appearance) and verbal, such as telling the Cyclops (Polyphemus) that his name is Outic, "Nobody", then escaping after blinding Polyphemus. When queried by other Cyclopes about why he is screaming. Polyphemus replies that "Nobody" is hurting him, and with that, it sounds as if nobody is hurting him. The most evident flaw that Odysseus sports is that of his arrogance and his pride, or hubris. As he sails away from the Cyclops's-island, he shouts his name and boasts that no one can defeat the "Great Odysseus". The Cyclops then throws the top half of a mountain at him, and tells his father, Poseidon, that Odysseus blinded him, which enrages Poseidon and causes the god to thwart Odysseus' homecoming for a very long time. "

Now what I think is interesting is how lawyers do the same thing...or even political "bills" will be named something they are not.

I also like what Joyce said about Ulysses:

." At first glance much of the book may appear unstructured and chaotic; Joyce once said that he had "put in so many enigmas and puzzles that it will keep the professors busy for centuries arguing over what I meant," which would earn the novel "immortality"."

That words can have two meanings is very common in law and will have the courts twisting your words forever. You can say one thing and find in a legal dictionary that it means something entirely different and would completely change the meaning you ascribe to the word.

So when I am thinking about word play this is going through my mind. Also puns. I used to find puns very hard to pick up but I am finding them easier to see and play around with.

So I am trying to let go and let Joyce teach me. At the same time I am trying to get through this long book so I don't give up. So I am shooting for your date Lilac of the 28th. I may not get all my notes transferred over then but I will have read it.

[Theresa~OctoberLace]

Off track again. I saw a hand surgeon today. She took one look at my X-rays, said the wrist is very badly broken, and scheduled surgery tomorrow. I'll have a cast up past my elbow when it's done. I'll have a long but uncomfortable weekend to read. I think Ulysses needs concentration, so I'll get back to it when I feel better.

[Cosmic]

Theresa~OctoberLace wrote: "Off track again. I saw a hand surgeon today. She took one look at my X-rays, said the wrist is very badly broken, and scheduled surgery tomorrow. I'll have a cast up past my elbow when it's done..."

I am really sorry to hear this. You have had your own Odyssey. I hope you will heal quickly.

I don't blame you for postponing this. But if you do read it, I hope you will come here and drop some of your thoughts. We will still get email alerts.

[Lilac]

I'm now half way through episode 15 and it's quite... surreal.

I enjoyed episode 13 very much, even though it was cliched at times (I'm sure that was intentional anyway).

Episode 14 annoyed me at first because it seemed like James Joyce was being ridiculously pretentious, but afterwards I appreciated the languages changes. It was a very interesting idea.

[Cosmic]

I am reading chapter 11. I started reading the Odyssey and a listening to a professor expound on the Odyssey. It is making the book Ulysses that much more complex. Chapter 11 reminds me of Dr. SEUSS. I don't really enjoy nonsense. I am trying to relate to the siren song idea but it escapes me.

Someone recommended the book.La Culture Des Idées so I started reading it. It reminded me of Ulysses because through these streams of consciousness I see Joyce breaking down truths and creating different associations.

In this book he writes:
"There are two ways of thinking. One can either accept current ideas and associations of ideas, just as they are, or else undertake, on his own account, New associations, or what is rarer, original disassociations. The intelligence capable of such efforts is more or less, according to the abundance and variety of it's other gifts, a creative intelligence. It is a question either of inventing new relations between old ideas, old images, or of separating old ideas, old images United by tradition, of considering them one by one, free to work them over and arrange an infinite number of new couples which a fresh operation will disunite once more, and so on till New ties, always fragile and doubtful, are formed."

I see this fragmentation this breaking down ...then a certain amount of fermentation and I imagine the wine may be the end product at the end of the book.

[Theresa~OctoberLace]

Cosmic, was it you who recommended using The Great Courses lecture series as an aid to appreciating Ulysses? I thin I'm going to get that plus a good version of Homer's The Odyssey, then make time in August and September to read them properly.

[Cosmic]

Theresa~OctoberLace wrote: "Cosmic, was it you who recommended using The Great Courses lecture series as an aid to appreciating Ulysses? I thin I'm going to get that plus a good version of Homer's ..."

Yes it was. I have really appreciated having his insight. It has helped me.feel like I was going somewhere when it didn't feel like I went to far in my understanding.

I started back reading Ulysses yesterday again. The Decadence: And Other Essays on the Culture of Ideas was insightful. I really believe that Joyce read this. Ezra Pound praised this author and he promoted James Joyce. The disassociations and associations essay sounded to me like the technique that Joyce used. He is associating the book Ulysses with the Odyssey. But the the story is disassociated with the Odyssey at the same time. You mind asks is it this way or that way....and you get meaning from comparing. Yes it is both ways....but eventually one way may come out on top. This is kinda how I am reading Ulysses.

I have decided to read it three times in a row, so I am glad they extended it. I just think the people that have gotten the most out of the book had to read it more than once. I am not an exceptional reader so I may need three times. He has broadened my view in that I have read other books I hadn't read before, so I am already ahead.

I am not doing as good about the number of books I am reading this year but I will remember this journey more than guzzling books down.

[Cosmic]

Some things you might want to know about if you are reading Ulysses.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot-a...

------------how does this relate------to:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sy...

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014...

http://lifesun.info/the-symbolist-mov...

This last link/book was what inspired Joyce to move to France. I became interested in this after reading the book by De Gourmont which I linked to in earlier post. I have been reading about De Gourmont influence on Joyce because I think when you understand where a guy is coming from it creates the context from which to interpret his work.

[Cosmic]

By the way I am on chapter 13. I am thinking about reading it again when I get done, so don't think it is too late to start. I don't think I have commented to much on the book because I have been trying to figure out what I think and questioning so much that I am not in a position to make any real conclusions.

[Cosmic]

Hi Everyone,
I have been reading http://www.bartleby.com/314/504.. Goethe (1749–1832). Wilhelm Meister’s Apprenticeship.

This was mentioned at the beginning chapter 9 of Ulysses.

I wanted to post what I think might be of interest about Hamlet. (Hamlet is the major theme of this book).


Among these external relations I include the disturbances in Norway, the war with young Fortinbras, the embassy to his uncle, the settling of that feud, the march of young Fortinbras to Poland, and his coming back at the end; of the same sort are Horatio’s return from Wittenberg, Hamlet’s wish to go thither, the journey of Laertes to France, his return, the dispatch of Hamlet into England, his capture by pirates, the death of the two courtiers by the letter which they carried. All these circumstances and events would be very fit for expanding and lengthening a novel; but here they injure exceedingly the unity of the piece, particularly as the hero has no plan, and are in consequence entirely out of place.” 12 “For once in the right!” cried Serlo. 13 “Do not interrupt me,” answered Wilhelm; “perhaps you will not always think me right. These errors are like temporary props of an edifice; they must not be removed till we have built a firm wall in their stead. My project therefore is, not at all to change those first-mentioned grand situations, or at least as much as possible to spare them, but collectively and individually; but with respect to these external, single, dissipated and dissipating motives, to cast them all at once away, and substitute a solitary one instead of them.” 14 “And this?” inquired Serlo, springing up from his recumbent posture. 15 “It lies in the piece itself,” answered Wilhelm, “only I employ it rightly. There are disturbances in Norway. You shall hear my plan, and try it. 16 “After the death of Hamlet the father, the Norwegians, lately conquered, grow unruly. The viceroy of that country sends his son, Horatio, an old school-friend of Hamlet’s, and distinguished above every other for his bravery and prudence, to Denmark, to press forward the equipment of the fleet, which, under the new luxurious king, proceeds but slowly. Horatio has known the former king, having fought in his battles, having even stood in favour with him; a circumstance by which the first ghost-scene will be nothing injured. The new sovereign gives Horatio audience, and sends Laertes into Norway with intelligence that the fleet will soon arrive, whilst Horatio is commissioned to accelerate the preparation of it; and the Queen, on the other hand, will not consent that Hamlet, as he wishes, should go to sea along with him.” 17 “Heaven be praised!” cried Serlo; “we shall now get rid of Wittenberg and the university, which was always a sorry piece of business. I think your idea extremely good; for except these two distant objects, Norway and the fleet, the spectator will not be required to fancy anything: the rest he will see; the rest takes place before him; whereas his imagination, on the other plan, was hunted over all the world.” 18 “You easily perceive,” said Wilhelm, “how I shall contrive to keep the other parts together. When Hamlet tells Horatio of his uncle’s crime, Horatio counsels him to go to Norway in his company, to secure the affections of the army, and return in warlike force. Hamlet also is becoming dangerous to the King and Queen; they find no readier method of deliverance than to send him in the fleet, with Rosencrantz and Guildenstern to be spies upon him; and as Laertes in the mean time comes from France, they determine that this youth, exasperated even to murder, shall go after him. Unfavourable winds detain the fleet; Hamlet returns: for his wandering through the churchyard perhaps some lucky motive may be thought of; his meeting with Laertes in Ophelia’s grave is a grand moment, which we must not part with. After this, the King resolves that it is better to get quit of Hamlet on the spot; the festival of his departure, the pretended reconcilement with Laertes, are now solemnised; on which occasion knightly sports are held, and Laertes fights with Hamlet. Without the four corpses I cannot end the piece; not one of them can possibly be left. The right of popular election now again comes in force, and Hamlet gives his dying voice for Horatio.

I hope this will be helpful.