January *The Dragonbone Chair* Discussion Thread

[Brenda ╰☆╮]

Discuss The Dragonbone Chair, by Tad Williams, here.
Hide your spoilers.

[A.L.]

Hopefully should get to this.

[Joseph]

Probably won't get to this in January; but I still have my Science Fiction Book Club copies of the entire trilogy that I ordered & read back when I was in college, and I remember enjoying them quite a bit.

(Although, to be sure, there are scenes I remember vividly, but I couldn't necessarily tell you which book they were in.)

Tad Williams writes great elves.

[Brenda ╰☆╮]

Okay, have it.......I may or may not have finished it before. I'll know soon.......

[Erica]

My copies are old paperbacks. It has been over a year since I read it. I will see if I can find my copy!

[Monica]

Long book. Slow start, but good writing.

[Z]

Yeah the start is quite slow. First time reading it, I don't find myself connecting with Simon yet but there are other characters I find interesting (Joshua).

[Monica]

Through the first 6 chapters...

Simon needs a hug :-)

I like the author's attention to detail in the first few pages as Simon (view spoiler)[ is transfixed on the beetle, like so many young boys, but was surprised to read that he is 14 years old. (hide spoiler)]

The Dr. Morgenes character looks interesting as well; wondering how he will develop.

Had to pause in chapter six (view spoiler)[ the puppy!!! Ugh, that was awful! (hide spoiler)]

[Caitlin]

I re-read them recently (only a few months ago) so they are still relatively fresh in my mind.
The book is quite long, as are the other two books in the series although I think the world building is quite lovely and benefits from a lot of detail.

[Shadowdenizen]

This isn't the first Fantasy series I read, or the best.
But it still remains one of my most loved.

I loved all the foreshadowing that went on throught out the entire book, some of which pays off in this volume, others which take longer to pay off.

And, yes, the (view spoiler)[Puppy (hide spoiler)] bit killed me too, the first time time I read it. But it was defintely a (view spoiler)[fitting introduction for Pyrates. (hide spoiler)]

I also liked some of the narrative techniques Tad used, though his writing style will continue to grow, if you read some of his other sagas like "Otherland" or "Shadowmarch". (In particular (view spoiler)[ the way he introduced the princes and their conflict WELL before they actually entered the picture. (hide spoiler)])

[Paul]

I enjoyed Dragonbone Chair, but felt that the sequels (especially the third book) were terribly padded with useless side-quests and characters.

[Monica]

Up to chapter 9 (view spoiler)[Josua is "missing". (hide spoiler)] I'm expecting the story to pick up the pace from here.

Shadowdenizen wrote: "I loved all the foreshadowing that went on throught out the entire book ..."

Yes, that is quite well done. I also like that the author is developing several side stories, weaving back and forth; almost touching on each other, but not quite...early yet. I'm enjoying this book.

[Shadowdenizen]

I'm glad you're enjoying this!
I'm finding it holds up decently well after all these years!

What I liked (especially in the later books) is that sub-characters change and seem to have a life/history of their own.

And he intertwines these stories within the main saga without making these "Side-characters" as important as the "Main-Characters" (like RObert Jordan does in the "Wheel of Time" saga.)

[Greta]

I started this today...will comment more when I'm a little farther along.

[Robin]

This is my favorite fantasy series (so far). I first read it a hundred years or so ago, but I've read it a couple times since then. I agree with Shadowdenizen about how Williams uses sub-characters so very neatly, letting them support the main characters without overwhelming them. And the characters all develop rather than remaining static.

I love his elves.

He has a great knack for creating believable people a reader can empathize with.

[Lára]

I started it today, too. It´s too early to say anything yet but I´m really excited.

[Shadowdenizen]

Yes, Robin.

I think Simon is a TOTALLY relatable hero, and he does such a great job of GROWING over the series from a boy into a man (and even within the first book.)

Many series (TOO many) neglect this aspect of character development, as 14-year olds seem interchangable with 20-something characters.

But Tad really captures that "Awkard Adolescent" stage really well.

And I love (view spoiler)[Simon's relationship with Rachel the Dragon; that relationship almost encapsulates the series to me, for some reason, to see Simon through her eyes later in the series, and how he grows/evolves. (hide spoiler)]

[Monica]

Having read another chapter I was about to add to my earlier post, but I see that Shadowdenizen and Robin have already touched on the observation about Simon. A manchild growing into adulthood; a step forward and half a step back. How clever of him to (view spoiler)[use his limited writing skill to "doctor" the request for consideration into the military by adding the letter "s" to "bearer" and including himself as part of the deal. And yet he responds to the rejection as a child would...breaking his practice sword and climbing to his hideaway. (hide spoiler)]

I appreciate how all of the characters are being carefully developed, rather than "honorable mentions" and "fillers". Any of them could burst to the forefront of the story at any time.

And what would a story about regal life be without the jester? Surely there's more to Towser than I've seen thus far.

[Caitlin]

Shadowdenizen wrote: "Yes, Robin.

I think Simon is a TOTALLY relatable hero, and he does such a great job of GROWING over the series from a boy into a man (and even within the first book.)

Many series (TOO many) negle..."

I love Simon, and I agree - he does a lot of growing over the series which is really nice to see. He is not a "stock standard" hero by any means. There is a lot of depth to him

[Monica]

Up to chapter 12 --

How Towser got his name was revealed, and we're introduced to the character named Inch...wonder how he got his name? He seems a bit creepy, but someone to watch for as the story continues. Left off where Simon (view spoiler)[stumbles upon Josua's cell. (hide spoiler)]

Question, maybe I missed something, or it will be explained in more depth later. The "sign of the Tree" to ward off evil, the wooden Tree Isgrimmur wears; and significance of tree symbol in general. Is that part of their "religious/pagan" belief? Was it from the Rimmersmen cutlure? I do see that Tree has a cap T when spoken of. Any insights would help. Thanks.

[Greta]

I'm through Chapter 6.

So far I'm liking the story and the political tension that is being built. I also just met (view spoiler)[Pyrates and what a way to meet someone. Instant hatred and wonder at why Elias chooses to have him as a counselor. (hide spoiler)]

I'm liking Simon a lot. (view spoiler)[He is so curious and while that gets him in trouble, he also experiences so many things the other servants do not. (hide spoiler)]

I like that this story starts from the perspective of the servants. That seems unique to me. While the servants and nobility may interact at times it seems their lives are very separate. I think we will learn much about the nobility in how they treat Simon. I love that Simon is the only servant to (view spoiler)[ go where other servants dare not, even touching the dragonbone chair. (hide spoiler)]

[Kay]

This sounds interesting, I have it on hold at the library. There are 3 people ahead of me so hopefully I will get it this month.

[Monica]

Greta wrote: "I'm through Chapter 6...(view spoiler)[I love that Simon is the only servant to go where other servants dare not, even touching the dragonbone chair. (hide spoiler)]..."

Yes, Greta, that is an interesting perspective to the story.

Finished Part 1 (15 chapters), and my Kindle is showing 29%.

Simon's a dreamer who craves something "bigger" in life. (view spoiler)[And when he does achieve a heroic act by helping Morgenes rescue Josua, he can't tell anyone! (hide spoiler)]

The author's careful attention to detail in painting a scene is remarkably well done; it reminds me of Mary Stewart's writing in the "Merlin Trilogy". He also leaves just a hint of hope/doubt as to the finality of a situation. (view spoiler)[Did Morgenes really die, or like Pryrates, did he miraculously survive? His character is too central to the story to just leave him out. So if he's "dead" then he will have to reappear in some other form...the book he gave to Simon, other people's memories of him, clues he left along the way...the messages he sent out via birds before he died. (hide spoiler)]

[Kate]

Just finished chapter 9, I'm really liking it so far, I like the slow burn of everything that's happening, the build of intrigue and political secrecy. You can feel something big is coming. Morgenes reminded me of the wizard in the animated movie Sword in the stone, when we first met him. I like him and interested to see how he develops. Simon is well written and already the character growth is there. Looking forward to reading more.

[Monica]

Kate wrote: "Morgenes reminded me of the wizard in the animated movie Sword in the stone, when we first met him...."

I had that same thought about the character.

[Femmy]

I'm at 21% right now. I like all the characters, but I can't wait for things to get going. Nothing exciting seems to be happening with Simon so far. I'm glad that everyone says that he will experience growth in this book. I love reading a character develop throughout a story. I'm certainly looking forward to seeing Simon grow more mature.

[Shadowdenizen]

This definitely a pot-boiler of a book.

While ALOT happens in this first book (no spoilers), a large part is also background details and set-up that will pay off in later books.

I think one of the most evocative parts of this book, for me, was (view spoiler)[Simon's trek thru the UNderdeeps of the Castle and the nightmarish visions within. Tad managed to make that sequence very unsettling. (It's STILL somewhat unsettling when I re-read it, even though it's been 20 (or so) years since I've first read it.) (hide spoiler)]

[Monica]

It does seem to be a "quiet" book, in that there is much "set-up" and foundation building going on in at least the first section of the book; takes a while before the action sets in.

Shadowdenizen said: "I think one of the most evocative parts of this book, for me, was (view spoiler"). Definitely an interesting and eerie section.

I'm up to chapter 19. Really getting interesting. (view spoiler)[Rescued the Sitha and rewarded with the white arrow; then met Binabek (and Qantaqa). Enjoying the stories told by Binabek. (hide spoiler)]

[A.L.]

I'm finding it a bit slow to get into, but I'm reading something else at the same time so maybe that's why.

[Lára]

I rate books the way they manage to get me into the world and this one has me. I´m not so far away but I´m completely in.

[Shadowdenizen]

Ah, yes!

The (view spoiler)[Binabik stories (hide spoiler)] are some of my favorite parts of the series! It's interesting in the "Otherland" series that there's (view spoiler)[a similar character [Aborginal Outlander] that serves a similar purpose [Folksy but Critical knowledge]. (hide spoiler)]

(That similarity actually just occured to me now, as I typed it, though I've read both series multiple times.)

FYI, I'm intending to finish my re-read of this trilogy (quartet in paperback); I know we didn't pick Stone of Farewell as a Book-of-the-Month, but I hope people will be interested enough to continue and discuss, maybe in one of the other threads....

[Lára]

Happy birthday, Shadowdenizen, a slow one tho :(

[Shadowdenizen]

LOL.
Thank you kindly! :)

[Monica]

My favorite character! (view spoiler)[Binabik!! He's Yoda meets James Bond; quite a walking stick he carries...it slices, it dices, and it's a musical instrument! (hide spoiler)]

[Shadowdenizen]

While I love (view spoiler)[Binabik, and quite a few others [Guthwulf and Maegwin leap to mind] (hide spoiler)] my heart belongs to Simon throughout this series.

I've said it before, but he really captures the essence of the "Heroes Journey" throughout the saga. At first, his choices (though they're the RIGHT choices!) are made from a place of naievete and innocence (view spoiler)[Like rescuing Jiriki at great personal danger (hide spoiler)], but, even as he learns asssorted truths, he STILL makes the right decisions, but from a wiser viewpoint, and (view spoiler)[often at great personal cost. (hide spoiler)]

BTW, Monica (and everyone else!), I love reading your thoughts! It's almost like I'm rediscovering the book for the first time as I read them!

[Monica]

Up to chapter 25 --

I can certainly see that this book is primed for a re-read at some point. There is so much going on; weaving in and out, crossing bits of the old story, appearing to go off on tangents (but not). An incredibly intricate design to his storyline(s). The author is certainly taking the reader on an adventure, and just when you think you can relax....beware.

(view spoiler)[Simon's dreams continue to be haunting. The massacre at the Abbey...horrible; those earth-diggers and the "Hounds of Erkynland" are spine-tingling. I'm glad we're finding out more about the secret society of The League of the Scroll. Simon's reading of Morgene's manuscript fits in nicely to add clues. Binabek's forest lore stories are a high point for me (hide spoiler)]

Ditto to Shadowdenizen's comment...I'm also enjoying reading everyone's thoughts.

[Femmy]

I just finished chapter 26. I must say that I'm enjoying the story more and more, now that things are happening. I also like that Simon shows (view spoiler)[a deep concern for others, even at great personal peril, such as for Isgrimnur's group during the Bukken attack, or when he heard Malachias being attacked by the white dog (hide spoiler)].

[Monica]

Glad you're enjoying the story, Femmy. I agree with your spoiler point; yet another reason to root for Simon.

[Monica]

Finished Part 2, up to chapter 30 (60% mark).

Binabek continues to entertain. (view spoiler)[Poor Simon! As he breaks into tears yet again, what does Binabek say? "This is not a good place for to be crying." lol, give the kid a break! (hide spoiler)]

Great twist (view spoiler)[Princess Marya disguised as Malachais. Surely not even Elias knew of her "secret identity", because he clearly loved her and would not send the hounds after her or harm her in any way. (hide spoiler)]

Another interesting character (view spoiler)[Geloe. I hope we hear more from/about her later on. (hide spoiler)]

Finally (view spoiler)[we meet us with Josua (hide spoiler)]

[Monica]

Up to chapter 34...some interesting developments.

New characters: (view spoiler)[Vorzheva, Josua's female companion...not sure what to make of her yet, but I don't trust her. Then there's Jarnauga, another member of the League of the Scroll; an interesting character who adds a deeper layer with his stories and insights. (hide spoiler)]

Simon continues to display "growing pains" as he struggles to become a man. (view spoiler)[He's invited to attend the council with Josua and the lords and generals. But how does he react? His feelings have been hurt, so he says he doesn't want to go. Finally Binabek convinces him and Simon says he will attend, but that he will decide whether or not to speak. (hide spoiler)]

Interesting character dynamic between(view spoiler)[Pryrates and Simon. :"Something had happened to that little wretch of a wizard's boy--Pryrates knew it. He had felt it as clearly as if someone had jabbed him with some sharp thing. There was some tenuous bond still between them from Stoning Night; it bit at him, gnawed at his concentration.range.

The connection between them reminds me of Harry Potter and Voldermort, but this book was published nearly 10 years before Harry Potter. (hide spoiler)]

[Femmy]

I've finished! On to the second book! I have to know what happens to these people!

Seeds of romance: (view spoiler)[When Simon caught a glimpse of Miriamelle in an early chapter, I thought to myself, he's going to get that princess. So I already guessed who Malachias/Marya was. But Simon's reaction toward Marya during their journey together was hilarious! Just loved it. (hide spoiler)]

Another favorite Simon moment: (view spoiler)[When he refused to let the Sithi release his bonds unless they free his friends as well. (hide spoiler)]

About that Memory: (view spoiler)[Why oh why haven't they figured out which sword is Memory? (I have a guess) (hide spoiler)]

[Shadowdenizen]

The slow build-up (view spoiler)[between Simon and Miriamelle (hide spoiler)] is handle so deftly in this book.

And (view spoiler)[their relationship continues to grow as the series progresses. (hide spoiler)]

I love that (view spoiler)[Miriemele is just as interesting, strong0willed and defined a character as Simon, able to stand beside him and support him when it is neccesary, and call him on his shit when that is necessary. (hide spoiler)]

[Greta]

I am now through Part 1...it went slowly because I've been reading other books in between for other groups.

(view spoiler)[Simon now has far more than he wished for in terms of adventure. His curiosity led him to find Josua and now after viewing the stoning ceremony he is completely on his own with no food in lands he hasn't been in before.

I can't imagine how terrifying it would be to wander through those passages in total darkness for such a long time. The voices in his head were very haunting. (hide spoiler)]

I'm going to keep reading this one now so I can move along a little faster. It's a good one!!

[Shadowdenizen]

I'm glad that the feedback on this book is so positive overall!

While certainly not the first (or even the best) fantasy novel I've ever read, this book/series really holds a special place in my heart, so I'm always pleased to see new readers digging this series after all these years!

[Monica]

Finished! Well crafted, enjoyable fantasy read, with imaginative settings and characters; consistent in developmental growth of characters and story. The Sithi "hunting lodge" was something...and Binabek is still my favorite character!

[Shadowdenizen]

So glad you liked it, Monica!
And your opinions were very insightful.

Are you gonna continue the series, I hope? (In many respects, this first book is mostly set-up for what's to come.)

[Monica]

Yes, definitely, Shadowdenizen. I will continue the series. Many questions left unanswered and characters' whereabouts "hanging". What happened to the servant girl? Geloe was too interesting to leave behind.

[Shadowdenizen]

Williams also pulls a Martin/Jordan, in (view spoiler)[making characters that seem minor early on become pivotal later on. (hide spoiler)]

Though he does it more seamlessly than those two (IMO), as there are no "POV chapters" (which only serve to "segregate" rather than "integrate" the story in Martins series, IMO.)

Though I love Game of Thrones that's one of my beefs with the series (and to a lesser extent "Wheel of Time"), , in that there's far too many characters to truly empathize with.

I said it before, but it's worth repeating that (view spoiler)[Williams' series is really about Simon and his heroic journey. While everyone has their own agendas and arcs, ultimately ALL the other storylines serve to reinforce Simons' arc. (hide spoiler)]

I know Stone of Farewell isn't a "Book of the Month", but I'm happy to continue the re-read if people still want to read and discuss it!

[Monica]

Shadowdenizen wrote: "Williams also pulls a Martin/Jordan, in [spoilers removed] Though he does it more seamlessly than those two (IMO), as there are no "POV chapters" (which only serve to "segregate" rather than "inte..."

As an early work of his, I am impressed with the author's consistency in thoroughly developing the characters and scenes...not easily accomplished by even the most seasoned authors. Very well written, but it is not a book to be rushed through.

I know Stone of Farewell isn't a "Book of the Month", but I'm happy to continue the re-read if people still want to read and discuss it!

I'll continue on with book 2, but there is a wait list at the library for it, so it may be a few weeks before I can get a copy. Looks like it's a bit shorter than the first book in the series.

[Joseph]

And much shorter than the third book in the series ...