You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion
note: This topic has been closed to new comments.
Off Topic Chat
>
Watcha Doin' - 2016.1
The electoral college can seem archaic but it's there to balance influence across urban and rural, big & small.As a comparison look at how the E.U. is struggling to balance the interests of Germany & Finland, or Brexit and England/Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland.
I'm just horrified at how people are reacting to this election already. There have been anti-Trumpers rioting and Trump supporters assaulting women and minorities. There is a video going around now of kids in a school holding up a Trump sign and chanting "white power" as well as another video with kids in a lunch room chanting "build that wall". Kids... :( It's really scary. I hope this gets under control soon. Too many people don't feel safe.
I was shocked Kristie when i read about the kids and the whole white power stuff, assults and graffiti which has sprung up. We had similar the weeks after brexit. No idea if it's calmed down now or not as I've stopped watching the news. Fingers crossed things will settle soon and it's just idiots doing this and they aren't representative of everyone who voted for Trump.
Travis of NNY wrote: "Of course these wacko Hillary supporters will destroy America before he is inaugorated if they don't chill out"What? By protesting? I thought you guys had an amendment about that and everything.
But of course, there are people taking advantage of the protesting, like they do with many protests in every country around the world.
Glad your daughter is feeling better, Kristie.
Joan wrote: "The electoral college can seem archaic but it's there to balance influence across urban and rural, big & small.As a comparison look at how the E.U. is struggling to balance the interests of German..."
The EU runs on proportional representation like your electoral colleges though.
The people talking about white supremacy are wrong to make those comments as this shouldn't be about skin colour but at the same time, some people have been making nasty comments about white people and talking about black supremacy. That is also wrong. Two wrongs do not make a right. It's a real shame that there are still people in this world who want to make skin colour an issue thus creating divisions that should not exist in our so called 'civilised world'. At the end of the day, we are all human beings. The colour of our skin should not come into it. We should all just pull together. The world would be a better place if we did. Rant over :) Sorry to go off on one but I have read some disgusting, hateful, disturbing and bigoted comments on the internet recently and it kind of sucks. I know it's only a small minority who do this but unfortunately, labels tend to stick and everyone gets dragged into it.
Protesting is ok. Violence and destruction of personal property is not ok. Burning US flags is not ok. Chanting white power is not ok . Ignorance is not ok. The problem with America, and possibly other countries I cannot say, but here you are an African American, a white American, a whatever American. We need to stop categorizing and all just be Americans
Travis of NNY wrote: "Protesting is ok. Violence and destruction of personal property is not ok. Burning US flags is not ok. Chanting white power is not ok . Ignorance is not ok. The problem with America, and possibly o..."Completely agree, Travis!
Travis of NNY wrote: "Protesting is ok. Violence and destruction of personal property is not ok. Burning US flags is not ok. Chanting white power is not ok . Ignorance is not ok. The problem with America, and possibly o..."Ah, cool. Thanks for clarifying. I was thinking that was a bit odd.
I don't care about flag burning though. It's a coloured bit of cloth. If it makes you feel good, whatever. It won't make me feel bad you doing it, or really change anything. I'm non-plussed.
Actually, on that note did you guys ever see the video of the pro-Brexit guy who went on a You Tube rant, and tried to burn an EU flag on video. But was foiled, as EU restrictions meant the flag had to be fireproof. Was too funny. I'm not going to find the video and link it so he gets more views, but it was amusing (if you can deal with the 5 mins of incoherent ranting beforehand).
I understand your point Travis, and I agree to some extent. I feel all of our countries need to pull ourselves together and unify within, but also around the world (whatever happened to globalisation, people!). But it is easy to say that people shouldn't categorise or identify themselves when we belong to the majority or the ruling class/ethnicity/culture/religion. A Chinese Australian, a gay Australian, an Indigenous Australian, and a female Australian should be treated no differently, access to the same rights, benefits, and opportunities. But unfortunately, that's not the case. We all identify as Australian, but that qualifier determines what we have access too, and depending what we are being denied that qualifier can change. That example there could easily be the same person.
We take away and minimise inequality, we start solving some of these issues.
Anyone else find it ironic that we are talking about these things on Remembrance Day, the day when we remember all those who died supposedly fighting for equality, freedom, etc? Makes you wonder what they fought for doesn't it?
Indeed. But of course, we wouldn't be having this conversation if it weren't for them.
Okay, so, one of our news stations posted this as it is Friday night here, and they said we all need to wind down after this week. A friend linked it to me, and Lexx and I have been in tears laughing watching this over and over.I felt you all needed to see this too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP14X...
Booo, not available to watch in my country
I love how he doesn't give up. :)
Lynn wrote: "Booo, not available to watch in my country"No way! How can I see something in Aus that you can't see in the UK? Usually we get blocked from everything! I will do a hunt for you guys.
Edit: Can you view it through the original SBS post? http://www.sbs.com.au/comedy/article/...
Sandra wrote: "I love how he doesn't give up. :)"I know, right! "I got told to put the bin out! Must. Do. It."
Oh here you go, the BBC has made it unfortunately shorter, but gives you the idea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM3gH...
That gave me a much needed laugh. Bless his heart!
Does anyone here watch the BBC nature documentary Planet Earth II? Check out this clip from Sunday night's episode which focused on islands. This footage is pretty incredible. It's like something out of a horror film. Those with a phobia of snakes be warned... (and be sure to watch right until the end).https://youtu.be/Rv9hn4IGofM
Yes I watched it! Amazing as always and those snakes scenes were very creepy!
I watched that the other day. That was astounding. I have never seen so many snakes. Go Team Iguana!!
I'm sure some of you will have seen this too but I thought I would link it as it's just so cute! I mean, are they sure that's not a teddy bear?!https://youtu.be/cUycB6M9YKA
Ahw, poor kid! And that dog is so cute!!
Great videos. :) Love that kid's determination! My kids would have just left it. Lol I've seen that snake/iguana video. It is creepy. That dog is too cute!!
Ok, I've been quiet but now it's time to share something: I posted this on Facebook amid all the name calling, aggression and down right lies about Trump supporters:
This is a Trump supporter:
Woman, homeschooling mom, wife, lover of dogs and all living things. A person who passionately fought against racism, animal cruelty, and fairness to all living things when younger. I still believe in all these things but as a mom now my focus is more on my family and fighting for them. A person who argues with her husband because I insist on buying organic food because of the GMOs that have been allowed into our food system. Someone who uses natural treatments because they produce great results and I'm not buying into big pharma~ These are the things I now fight against and that have been allowed to infiltrate our government and country.
A person who respects all living things and people, not one race over another, not one religious group over another. I believe we all have a right to our beliefs and a right to live our lives according to these beliefs. I love having a nation of diverse peoples but I also feel accountability and respect are not a horrible things to ask of others. A person who values honesty, responsibility and accountability as some of the most important things to teach my children. Teaching my kids to also love and respect all living beings by loving and respecting them everyday in turn.
I am also a woman who is fed up with the direction of this country. I have always been on the fringe of society (a punk growing up who believed in anarchy(!), a homeschooling momma, a big fighter against big pharma, montsano, etc) and I have always been against being controlled by those who wield huge forces of power over me or others so this place I find myself in now is not new. The disrespect and aggression is not new either but it's a sad place to be.
I'm not here to defend my voting choice, I'm just here to put a face to a supporter outside of what the media presents.
I hope the next time you hurl hateful thoughts or words towards those you find don't agree with your beliefs you will stop and think that many of us are just like you, we just have differing opinions of what the country needs right now. I know many women (in particular) who voted as I have and they are intelligent, kind and caring people who just want to see a change in this country.
If I sound like a racist, a homophobe, a mysoginist, a hater of any kind then I'm sorry you feel that way. If you know me and still think these things, then I'm even sorrier. But if you know me and know I'm not any of these things then I hope we can still be friends at the end of the day despite our differences of opinion. I have strong opinions of the opposing candidate (as those really close to me can attest to) but I would never let these feelings get in the way of family or friendship. I wonder if the MSM had been truly non-biased would we be in this situation today? Probably not.
When I hear people in this group calling Trump supports ignorant and negative things, it's offensive. Just know that there are people in the US who are just like me and are not what the media portrays us to be, what you believe us to be, what the media has so successfully carved us out to be. The MSM is hugely responsible for what is going on right now in this nation. Where is our CURRENT president when the country needs him the most? That's what I would like to know. We haven't heard a peep and he needs to step up.
That being said I know my comments here will bring forward all the usual questions about race, hatred, homophobia, etc. etc. etc...all those things the MEDIA has portrayed Trump to be and portrayed his supporters to be. Just remember that there are many of us that are very intelligent who see through the crap of the MSM and can make up our own minds. And we are not racist, homophobic, etc. I am none of these things. Many women I know who support Trump are none of these things.
We are tired of the direction of this nation, the pay to play politics, the elitist government and want to bring the government back to the people, exactly where our founding fathers fought so hard to bring it to. In my opinion, no one but a person like Trump could have done this. My husband would make a GREAT president but he would never have been able to get very far. If Trump does nothing but shake shit up in Washington then he has done something good. Maybe that will allow the next agent of change to make more progress in bringing this government back down to earth, to the people.
I'm putting this in the ring bc I think it's only fair to share the other point of view in here. And since people are posting their feelings I felt it ok to post mine as well. There are many voices like mine and I'm tired of being shamed into not being able to express them.
I will not be responding to comments made in response to this because I really don't want to get into arguments and lose friends but I really feel it's important to put a face to the many of us who do support trump. I care about this group and really enjoy the camaderie so I'm hopeful we can all move past.
BTW, I'm embarrassed that we have people acting the way they are in this country. It's truly mindboggling. I understand grief but I don't understand this behavoir. It's unacceptable.
Very well put Tasha, I can totally understand your frustration (even though I'm not a Trump supporter and it does scare me that he's now in power). There is however one thing I'd like to address:
Tasha wrote: "When I hear people in this group calling Trump supports ignorant and negative things, it's offensive."
Has that really happened in this group? I've seen people share their feelings about Trump but I wasn't aware that it had got personal about certain people / voters.
::goes back to check the comments again::
That is a great post, Tasha! I was also embarrassed and ashamed by how some people acted here in the UK after the Brexit result. There is just no excuse for that kind of behaviour, no matter how you feel about things.
In reading through the msgs I did see a couple of references to things that felt like generalizations about trump supporters. I don't want to point fingers bc I really just want to make people here aware that there is at least one person in here who supports trump! haha :)
Why is anyone surprised about the rioting that's going on now? There was rioting and protesting going on all during the campaign. When a major candidate in one of two major parties promises to round up Muslims and deport them, is endorsed by the newspaper of the KKK (one of only 3 newspapers in the entire nation that endorsed him), offers to pay the legal bills of supporters at his rallies that physically punch peaceful protestors who disagree with him, says he's going to bring back "stop and frisk", which is a way for police to racially profile people because of how they look.......I'm sorry but the media can't be blamed for that. Those are HIS WORDS. His speeches, his hateful rhetoric all during the campaign, starting with talking about Mexicans being rapists when he began his campaign over a year ago.
Also, let's be clear, there are plenty of right-wing media outlets who fan the flames of division, call themselves no-spin zones when they are spinning as much as the left-wing media does, etc.
Time to stop blaming the media and listen to the man's own WORDS.
His words, his actions, his rhetoric, is the reason that people are protesting. I don't defend the rioters and violence, but I for one am happy that people are letting their voices be heard, especially when one party now will not only control the White House but the Supreme Court (because the Republicans have shamefully not allowed a vote for MONTHS on President Obama's nominee) and both houses of Congress.
It is scary, and people are voicing their understandable fears after listening to over a year of very hateful rhetoric coming from a man no one ever dreamed would actually win.
I told my husband the other day that I am glad we are white and of German descent. It is sad, but that is how we feel. I can't imagine how it would feel right now to be black, to be a Muslim, etc. People are blowing off steam and standing up for what they see as a major injustice. I feel that were we standing in their shoes, we may see things quite differently.
There are two sides to every story, and it's time for everyone to respect everyone else.
In spite of everything he has said and done during his campaign, I made a statement in here just yesterday that we all need to get behind him and wish him well. I just had to speak up because I get tired of the media-blaming rhetoric. That goes on on BOTH sides, and this man's words have been more fan-flaming and bear-baiting than anything else that I have personally seen in the media.
/rant
Its ok Tasha and as I responded not in here but elsewhere in response to people blaming third party voters. Well I voted 3rd party if I didn't amd chose between the two I wpuld have voted Trump. My wife voted 3rd party she would have voted Clinton otherwise. Negating each other. Our votes were worth more as third party
And an interesting statistic both sides should look at. Trump got 1/3 of the minority vote.
Tasha, I'm sorry if I'm ignorant and I understand if you don't answer because you get tired of saying things all over again or feel like you have to defended yourself, but I'm honestly curious in a open-minded way (as I don't know a single person either in real life from the Netherlands or abroad or anyone online who supported/voted Trump, so I'm very much interested in hearing the other side). I only followed the elections through (Dutch) main stream media and I'm pretty sure Trump coverage in the Netherlands is quite selective and perhaps enlarging his 'bad' qualities. But, I find it hard to reconcile your beliefs which you described in that facebook post with those of Trump. They seem to me to be complete opposites (you describing respect for all races and religions, respect for our environment, etc., while Trump seems to have a clear aversion of certain races and religions and doesn't seem to concerned about the environment, does not think very highly of women, valueing money and profit). Is the picture painted of Trump in MSM not correct, does he not stand for all of these things? Does he not stand on the opposite side of all you believe in?
I understand what you say about the political system and that things need shaking up, and is that then the main reason for voting Trump? I guess what I'm wondering is if you're not worried that Trump will direct the country away from what you value so much, or do you not believe that will happen?
And I'm sorry you feel offended in this group :(
For my part, I'm sorry also that you felt offended, Tasha, and I hope that my comments weren't personally offensive to you. I respect you and agree with you on many things. And I value you as a friend and as a human being.
I am also sorry that you felt offended by comments in this group, Tasha :(
I am a libertarian . Basically socially left. Economically right. I will though take a shot at the question Peggy. I think as any one can notice all the fighting is coming dowb to social areas. Gay, race etc. One must rank what you value most and its imoortance in the president. Now I'm going to say a lot of Trump supporters rank the aocial issues low. I rank them low on my list anyway. Thats not to say they aren't important and ahould be ignored but I mean the economy, retirement. Health care these are really the big issues. Several people voted Trump solely on his promise to repeal obamacare
Thanks for explaining Travis. It makes sense that many people have economy etc. as a priority and vote for the person who they think will do the best job for what they find important. I guess it surprised me because my priorities are different. But of course we don't all feel the same :)
Yhere is also his isolationist views. Americans are taxed to the breaking point ywt the national debt gets deeper. Billions of dollars go to helo other countries while we have people homeless and starving on our own streets. Veterans not getting proper attention for ptsd and other issues of war. People want Americans to come first. All Americans regardless of who they are. This country just meddles too much qith the world. We don't have the money or the power and if thia deficit keeps going the US could become a third world nation is the fear.
Actually political speech through flag burning, sewing onto your pants, painting, stomping is all protected speech under the US constitution. An excellent book of case studies from constitutional law is "In Our Defense" by Ellen Alderman. It is very readable and fascinating (at least in my humble layman's opinion)
I should point out that the US Bill of Rights regulates the actions of the government so if fans want to boycott Green Day because they messed with the flag the fans are free to do so.
Peggy wrote: "Thanks for explaining Travis. It makes sense that many people have economy etc. as a priority and vote for the person who they think will do the best job for what they find important. I guess it ..."
I actually think so many people voted for Trump because they wanted a change and Clinton would have simply been more of the same that we already have with Obama.
And I completely understand where Tasha is coming from. There have been a couple of comments in this thread that imply Trump supporters are... lesser (for lack of a better word). One comment in particular I had to read and reread a couple of times to make sure I was interpreting it correctly. And good for you Tasha for expressing your opinion on the matter in such a calm way, you have my respect for that.
I don't call myself a Trump supporter because I really don't like him, but I did vote for him. I don't agree with a lot of his opinions, but he does have some good ideas that could benefit this country. He also has some absurd ideas that make me cringe, but I have enough faith in congress and the citizens to keep those under control. Trump has done some detestable things in his life. So has Hillary. I wasn't going to be happy with either one of them, but there is no need for the amount of hatred and animosity and fear surrounding this election. We need to stick together and lift each other up, not tear each other down.
Interesting. I'm just catching up with this thread now and I was thinking that I really appreciated this group for being able to have a discussion without being nasty about it. I've been avoiding Facebook a lot the past few days because people can't seem to get past this and I get stressed reading all the negativity coming from both sides. Please know that both sides have felt attacked during this election. The things said about liberals and democrats are just as nasty as what is being said about Trump supporters. The behaviors and physical attacks following the election that I mentioned earlier are coming from both sides as well. In my opinion, Trump is the worst case scenario for a president. Part of that comes from being in the mental health profession. I feel that not only is he unqualified, but he is mentally unstable and hateful. I do have huge concerns about what he will do to this country as president. I get really offended by people that tell me I am only saying that because of what the media tells me. No, I have watched his speeches and seen him debate. I have read his tweets and watched older video footage of him. I have made my own opinions.
With that said, I always hope that I am wrong and he will turn out to be a fine president. I want what is best for this country and it's people. I don't just want to win and I am not stirring the pot, so to speak. I want the country to come together.
I also don't judge Trump supporters as less than, so if any of the comments you are referring to were mine, I apologize and I certainly did not mean them that way. Please do not think that I think less of anyone for their opinions. I have very close friends (two of my best friends!) and family members that voted for Trump. I find these people to be intelligent and loving. We simply have a very different opinion of who Trump is and what he can do.
Edit: I apologize again if this sounds negative. I know plenty of Trump supporters feel the same way about Clinton and believe that she is the worst case scenario. I don't feel that way, but I don't think she was a strong candidate either.
I sincerely appreciate everyone's comments about my post. I definitely feel heard and I hope I've helped from my end as well. This really is a wonderfully supportive group and the respect here is amazing. :)
If only the world was more like ylto... :)
I'm reading Sartre's play No Exit and Three Other Plays for the challenge. I think it is relevant to the US today although he wrote it in response to World War II. Sartre was a French soldier, prisoner of war and philosopher but he came away with HOPE for the future.I think the democratic institutions in most of the world can cope with who ever is elected. People in North Korea, Zimbabwe, Congo, Nigeria, Myanmar, Thailand, Syria, Yemen etc. are the ones we need to fear for.
Very nicely said, Kristie. Not negative at all. I too have sincere concerns about Trump. I feel confident he has some sort of narcissistic personality disorder.
But since we live in a democracy and not a dictatorship, I try to have faith that everything will be okay.
And allow me to repeat what Peggy said! If only the world were more like ylto!
Considering I had to lay down behind the rock i was by tonight 3 times so deer running woukdn't run into me, I'd say my camoflauge is doing its job. The one doe I really hought was gonna jump me and the rock but veered at last second. The buck I literally could have grabbed by the horns as he walked by. All to small for my interest in ahooting but at least theu were entertaining
This topic has been frozen by the moderator. No new comments can be posted.
You'll love this one...!! A book club & more
Books mentioned in this topic
Change How You See, See How You Change (other topics)Deep Down Dark: The Untold Stories of 33 Men Buried in a Chilean Mine, and the Miracle That Set Them Free (other topics)
Alive: The Story of the Andes Survivors (other topics)
The Zahir (other topics)
The Zahir (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Daniel O'Malley (other topics)Daniel O'Malley (other topics)
Tara Moss (other topics)
Jasper Fforde (other topics)
William Faulkner (other topics)
More...
I also like one I heard this morning. Hoping Trump fails to prove a point is like hoping ypur pilot crashes the plane to prove hes ubqualified. Or something lije that. Point is unity is what is needed now