The Sword and Laser discussion
If you could change something about the book club audio episodes it would be....
message 51:
by
James
(new)
Apr 16, 2014 02:09PM
When you have to do a kickoff and a wrap up in the same episode, could you do the wrap up at the very end so those who are not finished don't miss anything else or have to scrub through and try not to hear spoilers.
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Rob wrote: "My original point wasn't necessarily to eliminate the calendar, but to 'prescreen' the list and talk briefly about a few books that people might not otherwise hear about. "Cosigned. If there's a book one or both of you are psyched about I'd love to hear about it. But a straight up list doesn't add value and even if it only takes 3-4 minutes that's like 7-9% of the podcast length if you do 45 min episodes.
Tom Merritt is actually Jason Snell in disguise on The Incomparable podcast. IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW.
I think though the calendar should at least still always feature any releases by authors we've read as picks or you've interviewed on the show. That the above outlined revamped calendar section is great, as long as it definitely keeps us up to date with SNL authors.
Ok, I have two suggestions:-Longer book discussions. I’m not saying that the episodes should be two hours long, but 60 minutes is great. Also, don’t be afraid of rambling, going on tangents… That’s all fun to me.
-Sometimes I feel that you guys never have anything bad to say about the book, or are just avoiding say something negative. I understand that you don’t want to be bias(eesssess!), but we are all adults here, we can make our own opinions. If you don’t like a book that I love, doesn’t mean that you don’t like me. Different POVs is what makes this discussion so entertainer. I want to listen what you like and you don’t about the books.
Anyways, even if you don’t attend these suggestions, I will still love the show, you guys are awesome.
This is just a thought, but I've always felt each book wrap-up could use some more "clubby" info.Couldn't we get Goodreads to create a sort of "localized" report for the month's pick? So, for example, it might be interesting to find out what percentage of the group marked this month's book as Read or "Currently Reading." And that among S&L members, the average rating was X.XX.
It's unfortunate that GR doesn't prioritize reviews from co-members of your groups. I know it displays your Friend's reviews first, but since we can't add 19,000 friends, this seems like a viable alternative. It would make reading other members' reviews of the book much easier. And could even provide additional quotes to read in the audio show.
But that's all I can think of for now... I've been pretty happy with the show since Geek and Sundry first introduced me to it. Keep up the great work, you two.
I haven't heard anyone else mention it again, so I'll second the shortening of intro music. It does seem to drag on, and I'm even listening at 1.5 speed.A segment where others have a voice seems good to me, too. Whether you set up a voicemail line for comments like some podcasts I listen to, or have a guest present something periodically.
And I like the idea of extending the show to an hour.
Here are a couple of logistical ideas:
* For the hangouts, you can send a private message though goodreads to all of us. That lets me know immediately through email alerts on my phone. If you send out a message on G+, I won't know until the next time I log in.
* For funding, have you guys checked out Patreon? Seems like a lot of podcasters, webcomic artists, and musicians are finding it useful. Especially if they already have an established fan base.
Holy moly all the replies. I concur with a lot if what's been said but my biggest thing is that I'd love to see more club member engagement. More picks from the forums, maybe even looking at the forums for news. Much of the news on the podcast sourced at io9 or boing boing also has threads here which never get brought up. The other thing, about book leader or leaders is something you tried a little bit before but would be cool to give a go again, maybe with that person/persons being able to contribute more somehow...Also I have a Google+ account but I check Twitter far more regularly. Even that depends on life crap, but I try to hit it daily...
Veronica wrote: "Michele wrote: "I know you're asking about the podcasts, but I have a question about the club.Why do you guys almost never join in the book discussions here on Goodreads?
Because you guys read too fast and I'm scared of spoilers. "
Amen to that. Spoilers kill a book for me. Movies too. I don't know why but they just ruin the experience for me.
I personally am not concerned about keeping up with new releases in general. If I have a favourite author, I've already written down the publishing dates for his/her new work.So, I'd prefer less Calendar and more chatting about the month's pick.
Thank you for asking, Tom and Veronica!
I'm with the majority that wants more talk about the month's book including some about any alt picks.Somebody else mentioned that there used to be discussion leaders in the forums sometimes. maybe that could be done again and that person could be included in the wrap-up somehow.
I'm apparently the only one who sees value in the calendar segment ;-) While my first post in this thread was fully in support of the `cast as is, some others have mentioned more listener engagement or contributions, and lengthier, more in-depth book discussions. I'm on board with those ideas!
I'm one of those listeners who doesn't participate in the hangouts nor do I watch the video shows, and I rarely listen to the author interviews unless it's an author I really like, and even then probably not. I'm here for the book discussions, the other S&L segments during the `cast are gravy. The extracurricular versions of the podcast I'm okay with skipping.
Keep up the good work!
Rob wrote: "I think though the calendar should at least still always feature any releases by authors we've read as picks or you've interviewed on the show. That the above outlined revamped calendar section is ..."Agreed!
James wrote: "When you have to do a kickoff and a wrap up in the same episode, could you do the wrap up at the very end so those who are not finished don't miss anything else or have to scrub through and try not..."I agree with that. I for one can't always get the book pick and am a couple of months behind. But I do like to catch up later on.
As of now, I sometimes don't listen to the podcast, if it's a wrap up episode of a book I am going to read later, because I don't want to srub through the wrap up part.
So I think putting the wrap up at the end of the episode would be great!
Tom wrote: "So you all want more calendar? Am I reading this wrong?KIDDING!
So one idea V and I kicked around is replacing the calendar section with picks. We could reference the viewer reviews, picks in e..."
I actually like hearing what books are coming out, but maybe it would be good just to focus on the big releases or big names....
I would like you guys to interview an audio book narrator to give us an idea of how the process works. Do they skim it beforehand, how do they keep the different characters straight in their head etc.My preference would be for someone who only does audio book narration, not an actor who's known for other things.
i.e. Scott Brick, Simon Vance, Kate Reading
With your connection to Audible, surely this is possible?
I would relax my 'not an actor' restriction for someone totally awesome, or Wil Wheaton:) Hell, you could just get Wil on and just talk about 'stuff', I'm sure it would be entertaining.
After reading all the fine suggestions above I agree with the thoughts that minimize the planned segments like calendar. To make it more book clubish I think you need to include more book club stuff like forum posts, reviews, and interactions between each other around books. I also love the shows when you add content like on show 171 where you included the talk that Suarez and Weir had with the SF in SF audience. Maybe talk about books you read in the past or growing up that influenced your feelings about the genre. Either way keep the goodness flowing.
Feel free to ignore this suggestion, but I want more pat Rothfuss.Can we make him a regular? Once a month would suit me.
What about something like this?
"I'd really like to read, but doubt I ever will."
Kind of self-explanatory, but we all encounter books we'd like to read. But for one reason or another, we may never get to them. So maybe you two, Veronica and Tom, could toss a title to the audience that falls into this category of books you really want to read, but... Then maybe some of us could read them on your behalf.
I don't know, just an idea.
But if Pat can't be a regular, can you ask him to be my mentor?
Thanks so much :)
Oh, so a couple of people have mentioned the wrapup interview episodes, which were really awesome, but I'm guessing they're crazy hard to schedule. Something else that might be cool (and easier to schedule as you'd have more options) is getting on an author who happens to love whatever book we're reading? Like going from the above desire for more Ruthfussness, if we read, say Lord of Light, and hypothetically It Is Known that That is his favoritest book ever, have him on for the wrapup (or any author that loves it). I bet a lot of authors out there would love to spend some time fanboying/fangirling about stuff they love rather than own stuff. Just another interviewy option since recently you've been doing some fun/different things with guests
Rob wrote: "Oh, so a couple of people have mentioned the wrapup interview episodes, which were really awesome, but I'm guessing they're crazy hard to schedule. Something else that might be cool (and easier to schedule as you'd have more options) is getting on an author who happens to love whatever book we're reading? Like going from the above desire for more Ruthfussness, if we read, say Lord of Light, and hypothetically It Is Known that That is his favoritest book ever, have him on for the wrapup (or any author that loves it). I bet a lot of authors out there would love to spend some time fanboying/fangirling about stuff they love rather than own stuff."Spinning off on this more, how about the author chooses the main pick of the month, guests in one of the episodes discussing their choice, and perhaps we could read a book by the author as an alternate pick for us (no obligation for the author to discuss it on the show). I like the idea but it also feels like a lot to ask from an author though.
Mod
This is a really cool idea. I'd love if you guys interviewed several narrators.
In addition to those Andrew already mentioned I like:
Micheal Kramer (WoT, Mistborn, Stormlight, tons more)
James Marsters (Dresden Files)
Luke Daniels (Iron Druid and lots more)
Jim Dale(Harry Potter)
Probably a bunch more I'm forgetting..
Oh and Micheal Kramer and Kate Reading are married, so maybe you could interview them together.
Huh. I didn't know that was by Nelson and Dweezil Zappa.
You know, the utter lack of Lem the Dragon on the podcast is appalling. Just appalling.
On a serious note.I like the calendar. I just don't feel it needs to be so thorough. Perhaps V & T could mention a few upcoming titles that look really interesting, but not hit on every single release. Something like an at-a-glance calendar? Having some idea of what's to come is nice. Regardless, no matter what you do, I'm still going to listen. The show is great!
Since you are posting book reviews on your website, and I know several group members write reviews for almost every group read, it might be nice to post a few book reviews for each monthly pick on the website. It would be interesting to have more comprehensive reviews about each book club pick and to get more voices involved in the discussion.In general, I'd like the club to feel a little more interactive and to focus slightly more on the book we're currently reading. I know the community is pretty large now so the interactive bit is growing increasingly complex, but even simple things like polls and whatnot make me feel more involved.
Side note: I agree with cutting down on the intro music and calendar segments.
I got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell!
Is it possible to have a feedback poll where we share our rating of the month's book?
Mod
So far here's what I'm gathering.
Turn Calendar from a recitation of upcoming releases to more of a 'highlights of upcoming releases/ picks' and just tell people to go the website for the full list of calendar items.
Spend more time on the book! Extend the discussion on the book pick each time. Work in more audience involvement by bringing in more threads, possibly guest commentators and running polls. Make sure wrap-ups are the last thing in the show to hep avoid spoilers.
Generally add more audience interaction.
Shorten the intro music.
More cowbell.
I put on my pants just like anybody else, but then I go out and make hit records.
Tom wrote: "This is all SO darned helpful. Thank you guys so so much. A lot of this is along the lines we were talking already.So far here's what I'm gathering.
Turn Calendar from a recitation of upcoming ..."
Sounds about right to me ;)
But, above all, keep being awesome! Love what you guys do!
Tom wrote: "Spend more time on the book! Extend the discussion on the book pick each time. Work in more audience involvement by bringing in more threads, possibly guest commentators and running polls. Make sure wrap-ups are the last thing in the show to hep avoid spoilers."It might help you guys if you created a general-purpose outline of book discussion topics, so that you don't have to cast about for things to say, much like you segment the podcast into sections. Stuff like:
-Entertainment value vs. capital-I Importance
-Gender, race, and/or sexuality (LGBTQ…) portrayal in the book
-Audio performance
-Tropes employed or subverted by the author
-Favorite passages
-Likelihood that another of the author's books will make it to the top of your reading list (instead of giving it a star rating or saying if you 'recommend' it).
… Stuff like that would maybe be helpful, and you could keep your topics in mind as you read, marking passages for discussing them later. I think that kind of structure (not necessarily the example topics above) would help keep the discussion from dwindling to "I liked it a lot!" "Yeah, me too!" *crickets*
I would love more discussion of the book for the month. I know a lot of that happens on the board here, but I really enjoy hearing the two of you discuss what "we" have all read. Maybe even adding in the occasional guest for a group discussion (I'd love to hear authors talk with you casually about other authors' books, for example).
Tom - and don't be afraid to run long if you two are in a groove. Occasionally it feels like you feel you have to keep to a time limit and while I think just rambling for 2 hours would be silly, extending an episode a bit if you're having fun and the discussion is going good is fine. At least for me, the idea of shortening the calendar is in part because it takes a pretty big chunk of the time. Obviously thats less of a concern if you're freer with the time limits.
I really enjoy the podcast! And, I would like to add my voice to others for more in depth discussions on the book selections. I'm interested in hearing more about what worked in the book, the author's style, concepts, comparisons to similar books.
I dont know about shortening the music, but how about a summer theme? The current one starts off like 'Jingle Bells' and it feels wrong listening to it in July.
The intro music to me isn't too long as I listen to it at 1.5x speed. Has a nice dubstep feel to it that way. :)Glad y'all are taking in the suggestions and as mentioned earlier just being awesome is really all we want what we really really want.
Maybe Veronica can drop an impromptu spoken word opening? Something like:My name is V and I'm here to say.
This be Sword and Laser, we're awesome today...?
Or, maybe not :)
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Matheus wrote: "What about rapping the commercials?"Yes to this.
I enjoy the podcast immensely, and many of these suggestions are good. I actually like the intro music. the calendar discussion is interesting. I agree that it could get long, but to just limit it to the 'big names' or 'highly anticipated' releases makes me just a touch sad. Those authors will be plugged everywhere regardless. I think you guys have a great opportunity for introducing new writers in the genre. Totally your decision, though.Also, in terms of content, I love that you have author spotlights and hangouts, but have you ever thought of expanding that to sff illustrators, editors, or agents. I imagine those could lead to some fascinating discussions about subjects directly and tangentially related to the sff genre. Have a wonderful day! Thanks for giving fans a safe place to play.
First, let me say thanks for the offer of feedback. Its a brave thing to open yourselves up to commentary like this.My suggestion is one put forward already, but I'll try to convince you why you should go for it: More swearing. Or rather, less worrying about it if you do swear.
I think its safe to state that this podcast and the book club are for grown ups. The books we read are full of strong language, graphic violence, sex, wars, murders, any manner of scenarios that shouldn't be considered kid friendly, IMHO. Yet the few times that there have been any hints of foul language, it is either apologised for, or as is usually the case, mentioned as having been edited out. I'm not saying that the show should sound like the breakfast table from Reservoir Dogs, but since we are all adults here, and we're not discussing the Adventures of Clifford The Big Red Dog, if you do curse, we're grown up enough to take it. Promise.
When I do hear that a curse has been edited out, I usually roll my eyes and think how funny it is that its OK to have a segment celebrating your shared love of alcohol (I'm not judging, just saying) but you tread carefully about using a dirty word. Its like the FCC not wanting to show a nipple on TV but having no issues with having anchorpeople discuss the rape/murder/home invasion of the day. The only reason I think that happens is because advertisers don't like noise made about shows they sponsor. So is that why you are both so careful about the clean language?
Also, on rereading my only point of feedback encouraging you to curse more, I'd like to note that you are doing a fantastic job with the show, as that's the only thing I could think to comment on.
First off, I like the podcast as is and am very grateful that y'all asked Lois Bujold a question for me that cleared up something that had been nagging me for years.I agree that a bunch of the suggestions above would be worth trying (shortening the intro, changing the calendar so that you each talk about a few upcoming releases that interest you, and allowing "digressions" to go on longer, etc.). I particularly like the idea above of including authors in some of the book discussions. We read a lot of classics in this book club so most of the authors will have read the book and you get a very different feel from someone if they are not discussing themselves.
My only additional thought is that I listen to podcasts for opinion, not news, so I'm in favor of y'all only discussing stuff that genuinely interests you and for which you have a personal take. For example, if there's a week where none of the press releases and articles out there interest you, I'd be fine with ditching the quick burns for that podcast.
I always assumed they couldn't swear because of the sponsors (Audible, etc)
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