Tess of the d'Urbervilles by Thomas Hardy (Dec. 2015 - Jan. 2016 Group Classic Read)

[Greg]

Charbel wrote: "I'm still in the beginning, but I just reached the part where Prince the horse died. Did anyone else think the scene was quite disturbing? Especially the description of it?"

It's disturbing Charbel, but I didn't think it was necessarily gratuitous. I think Hardy wants to shock his readers into understanding what life is really like for families like the Durbyfields through these sorts of grisly details. Hardy is outraged, and he wants his mostly well-heeled Victorian readers to feel it. He's moved perhaps by the same kind of feeling that made George Orwell write Down and Out in Paris and London and Barbara Ehrenreich write Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America.

Here again is that "margin of error" that Robin talks about. If the horse is gone, it's not an inconvenience as it would be for those in other social classes. It's a calamity! This grisly horror scene underscores the calamity.

Also, as Joy says, having this incident branded in Tess' mind (and her shock and guilt over it) is partly what pushes Tess into complying with her mother's foolish plans. So it serves a story purpose as well.

That doesn't make the scene any less unpleasant though! I had to read that part with my eyes partly closed and my hand on my forehead. :)

[Terry ~ Huntress of Erudition]

Greg wrote: "Charbel wrote: "I'm still in the beginning, but I just reached the part where Prince the horse died. Did anyone else think the scene was quite disturbing? Especially the description of it?"

It's d..."

Excellent analysis, Greg!

[Greg]

Terry wrote: "Excellent analysis, Greg!..."

Thanks Terry! :)

[Leslie]

Greg wrote: "Charbel wrote: "I'm still in the beginning, but I just reached the part where Prince the horse died. Did anyone else think the scene was quite disturbing? Especially the description of it?"

It's d..."

Great point Greg. Hardy is clearly making a point here, I agree.

[Greg]

Is anyone still reading?

I'm quite loving the book for the most part, but I'm moving slowly because of the chaos of life as well as my bad habit of reading multiple books at the same time. I'm in phase the third now, chapter 20.

One thing I love is the fine Victorian craft, such as the numerous patterns of recurring motifs that deftly tie the book together .. just one example, the patterns of religious imagery used for secular things, the young low-born dancer for instance whose "straw hat .. upon his head" is arranged such that "the brim encircled it [his head] like the nimbus of a saint." This sort of imagery repeats often.

At first I thought it was a kind of a santification of things not normally considered sacred, a valueing of things ordinarily overlooked. It reminds me of the way Wilfred Owen uses religious imagery in his poems, so affecting. I still think it is that, but it's more than that too ....

The second thing I love is when Hardy lapses into unabashedly metaphoric language. Toward the very end of chapter 8, as the common folk walk home after (view spoiler)[basically pushing Tess into the arms of her soon-to-be rapist and then laughing about it (hide spoiler)], Hardy writes: "as they went there moved onward with them, around the shadow of each one's head, a circle of opalized light, formed by the moon's rays upon the glistening sheet of dew. Each pedestrian could see no halo but his or her own...." Ah, how very lovely! What a fine touch this seems to me, the subtle authorial commentary embedded in the fact that each of them has an illusory perception of their own halo (their own goodness), but that this charity extends to no one else! Hardy's condemnation of their religious hypocrisy and of religious hypocrisy is strong!

What a fine touch!

But then in other places, Hardy does fall into direct authorial commentary, directly addressing the reader for a paragraph or two and letting them know what they should think. It really isn't needed as all of what he says in these tracts is fairly obvious already. I'm not as fond of it, but I'm happily disregarding those short stretches for now - after all, it was quite common in the era. Dickens also does this quite frequently.

Another thing I love are Hardy's occasionally lush descriptions that appeal to all the senses. One of my favorites is the description of Tess (view spoiler)[listening to Angel's music from the overgrown weeds (hide spoiler)] in chapter 19. (view spoiler)["The floating pollen seemed to be his notes made visible, and the dampness of the garden the weeping .... Though near nightfall, the rank smelling weed-flowers glowed as if they would not close for intentness, and the waves of colour mixed with the waves of sound." (hide spoiler)] Lovely!

[Pink]

Erm, I still haven't started, but I still plan to!

[Greg]

Pink wrote: "Erm, I still haven't started, but I still plan to!"

Ha ha Pink, you're late this time like I usually am. Well, we can keep the thread going between us. :)

[Charbel]

I seem to have taken a break from it, but I will get back to it. I think I will enjoy more in small doses.

[Greg]

Charbel wrote: "I seem to have taken a break from it, but I will get back to it. I think I will enjoy more in small doses."

Glad to have more company Charbel! I think other than you, Pink, and I, most people have finished already. I'm getting toward the end of part the fourth.

[Leslie]

Charbel wrote: "I seem to have taken a break from it, but I will get back to it. I think I will enjoy more in small doses."

I think it is a book for small doses -- at least it struck me that way.

[Robin P]

Great comments, Greg! Reading the quote you marked as spoiler, I was struck by how sensual and even erotic it is.

[Greg]

Robin wrote: "Great comments, Greg! Reading the quote you marked as spoiler, I was struck by how sensual and even erotic it is."

Thanks Robin! I thought it was beautifully sensual too!

[Greg]

Joy wrote: "I like the way that Hardy uses the landscape to heighten the mood / emotion. I'm thinking of [spoilers removed]"

I'm liking this too Joy! Hardy does this very well.

[Tom]

While I liked the book at first, now it's just ticking me off.

(view spoiler)[It took sooo dang long for Angel and Tess to get married and now they're talking about living apart? It somehow seems to me that this book could be cut in half if all the shilly shallying were moved. I understand Hardy's doing it to make Clare's about face that much more dramatic, and that I'm reading it with a modern sensibility, but c'mon....

And then you have Clare's hypocrisy in not forgiving Tess for doing something he himself was guilty of. It was never made clear (at this point - I just finished Chapter 36) to me if Tess had acquiesced to Alex or if he had forced himself on her. Still, Clare went into his dalliance open-eyed and willingly.

The saving grace so far for me are Hardy's notes about religion, modernism, nature and the like. That and the fact he'd pretty much said that Tess loved him more deeply than he loved her, setting up for yet another disappointment and hurt for her. In fact, I wondered as I started reading if this was going to be a sequence of Job-like trials for Tess, and that seems to be proving true. (hide spoiler)]

At this point, I'd give the writing a 4, and the story a 2 but I'm hoping that latter score will go back up once I've finished the book.

[Leslie]

Tom wrote: "While I liked the book at first, now it's just ticking me off..."

lol -- you are not alone in that feeling! I look forward to hearing what your thoughts are once you finish it.

[Greg]

Tom wrote: "While I liked the book at first, now it's just ticking me off...."

Ha ha Tom, I understand where you're coming from. I didn't find it frustrating myself because I just assumed such double standards were endemic in Victorian times - I believe they were - and as you say, that's probably Hardy's point to expose them for what they are.

However, I did also feel like (view spoiler)[Tess' tortured indecision about whether or not to accept Clare went on for a bit too long. That fourth part could've used some tightening, despite its breathtaking descriptions, perceptiveness, and downright lovely writing. (hide spoiler)]

Also, in spots, Tess does almost seem a bit too self effacing. I mainly felt that way in the earliest part of the book and also in the fifth part, "The Woman Pays." In the fifth part, when she offers to Clare to (view spoiler)[drown herself to make his life more convenient (hide spoiler)], that was just a bit too much.

I can understand why she's depicted that way though. Hardy's Victorian audience would've been eager to blame Tess for her own troubles; I suppose Hardy doesn't want to give those readers any excuse to do so .. he takes pains to show how hard Tess tries to act correctly.

It's of course very hard to see Tess treated so unfairly though. I like your comparison to Job. Very apt I think.

[A.L.]

Read this for the first time a couple of years back, amazing book.

[Terry ~ Huntress of Erudition]

Tom wrote: "While I liked the book at first, now it's just ticking me off>

Good one! That's exactly how I felt the second time I read this book.

[Tom]

Well, I wrote my comment in a fit of pique just after having read the offending passages. After the superlong buildup, that was the resolution? (view spoiler)[I can't help but think that if Hardy had access to a two minute music video montage, using Elgar's Salut d'Amour for the tune, much of that buildup could have been gotten through much more quickly. Clare in various positions of supplication and Tess in those of refusal. (hide spoiler)]

Thing is, Hardy definitely knows what he's doing, because he has a paragraph or two (view spoiler)[noting that for however Clare's into new ideas, he returns to his ingrained belief system for important issues. (hide spoiler)]

To me, the novel seems to be about change and mutability against the seeming unchanging natural world. (view spoiler)[Great families/houses fallen into decrepitude and ruin. The only "d'Urberville" is the nouveau riche Stoke family's attempt to cover its tracks. Prince, to my mind, a symbol of English nobility, being literally put out to pasture.

The same seems to be true of religion as well - while there is certainly much of churches (High, Low, and Broad), Tess and to a lesser extent Clare seem not to be beholden to organized religion.

Traditional/received gender roles being questioned, and in some cases taken to extremes to show that they're social/manmade constructs and therefore unnatural. And of course, there's the notion of calling a character Angel Light and having him be a cad (for most of the novel). (hide spoiler)]

So I didn't want to make like I don't like the book, I do. Likely Hardy felt that he had to go on as long as he did with Tess and Clare to make it clear to his readers what he was on about.

[Greg]

Tom wrote: "Well, I wrote my comment in a fit of pique just after having read the offending passages. After the superlong buildup, that was the resolution? [spoilers removed]

Thing is, Hardy definitely knows ..."

Fantastic post Tom! And I strongly agree with the three interrelated themes you describe in your final spoiler - very well stated! I hadn't thought of that with the horse's name, but it makes sense. I like what you say about that! I did notice the same about Angel's name.

Victorian religious hypocrisy is definitely one of those things Hardy is going after; I can see that strongly. He takes the hardness and lack of compassion in his time's general religious expression strongly to task. I could feel the hot anger half-hidden behind passages such as in chapter 14: (view spoiler)["She thought of the child .. the arch-fiend tossing it with his three-pronged fork ... to which picture she added many other quaint and curious details of torment sometimes taught the young in this Christian country." Tess' inner torment at the idea of her baby not being baptized moved me deeply; it was so poignant! (hide spoiler)]

In more than one passage, Hardy suggests that life would be easier if people were more in tune with their natural instincts. Many times this is done with pleasing subtlety, but he even lapses into direct authorial comment a few times, such as toward the end of the second part when he writes, "It was they that were out of harmony with the natural world, not she."

And I definitely see Hardy's strong challenge to the prevailing gender rules and assumptions throughout the book. At first, I was thinking "gender construction" might be too strong, but looking back at what I've read of the book, I no longer think so. In that same passage in the second part, Hardy writes: (view spoiler)[ "But all the while she was making a distinction where there was no difference .... She had been made to break an accepted social law, but no law known to the environment in which she fancied herself such an anomaly." (hide spoiler)] Hardy does seem to be pointing out very strongly that all of the complex Victorian social laws (which hinged so much upon gender distinctions) are something made up by man and not "natural" at all.

[Tom]

I agree with what you've been posting, Greg. Gender construction is a bit too strong - I'd say a reliance on tradition (this is the way it has always been) might be more apt, since that's what many seem to be doing through the novel. It's those traditions that Clare/Hardy are meaning to shake up, pointing out new ideas coming to replace the old - technology/industrialism replacing agrarianism, and secularism replacing religion. I think this process culminates with the end of WWI when many, including Edward Elgar felt the world as they had known it had passed away. (His Cello Concerto is an ode to that passing.)

(view spoiler)[While a lot of Clare and Tess' interactions are melodramatic, I think Hardy wrote the Sorrow plotline not only to show that this was Serious Art, but that also, to show that is (melodrama) wasn't endemic or intrinsic to his writing - that they can be used when necessary to make a point. (hide spoiler)]

[Greg]

Tom wrote: "It's those traditions that Clare/Hardy are meaning to shake up, pointing out new ideas coming to replace the old - technology/industrialism replacing agrarianism, and secularism replacing religion. I think this process culminates with the end of WWI when many, including Edward Elgar felt the world as they had known it had passed away. (His Cello Concerto is an ode to that passing.)..."

I think that's true Tom. And there was a great deal of stress and concern in Victorian times about all those changes you mention (technology, secularism, etc.). It makes me think of these lines from the beautiful poem "Dover Beach" by Victorian poet Matthew Arnold:

"The Sea of Faith
Was once, too, at the full, and round earth’s shore
Lay like the folds of a bright girdle furled.
But now I only hear
Its melancholy, long, withdrawing roar,
Retreating, to the breath
Of the night-wind, down the vast edges drear
And naked shingles of the world."

I think it captures the angst a lot of the writers of that period were feeling. Hardy definitely seems more sympathetic to the shake-up of those older traditions, though there's still a little of the angst of change that occasionally peeks through.

And on a different topic ....

Two images in chapter 35 that struck me as particularly lovely:

(view spoiler)["... a tear so large that it magnified the pores of the skin over which it rolled, like the object lens of a microscope." (hide spoiler)] It feels odd, the inclusion of such a scientific image but it's so deftly done. Intimate and remote at the same time. So perfect!!

(view spoiler)["The cow and horse tracks in the road were full of water, the rain having been enough to charge them, but not enough to wash them away. Across these minute pools the reflected stars flitted ...; she would not have known they were shining overhead if she had not seen them there--the vastest things of the universe imaged in things so mean." (hide spoiler)] Such a gorgeous image and so much going on in those lines! (view spoiler)[The fact that she's looking down only, the feeling of being dwarfed in the pit of the universe. (hide spoiler)]

Such fine writing!

[Tom]

Finished the book last night. No real surprises, but what a cinematic ending. I could very much see the scene unfolding in my head. (view spoiler)[My version: You see two figures emerge from what looks like a prison at a good distance away. You can't tell who they are, but you are hoping/assuming it's Angel and Tess. There is a side shot taken a long way away showing them about halfway up the hill. Cut to a shot with the pair at the top of the hill in the foreground, backs to the camera, looking toward the tower. The black flag is slowly unfurled on the pole. They turn to look at each other and you now know why you didn't recognize Tess, as it is her younger sister who is with Clare. (hide spoiler)]

[Tom]

When reading older novels like Tess, if they mention music, I've taken to trying to find some examples to listen to. Songs of Thomas Hardy's Wessex compiles (some?) of the songs that Hardy mentions in his novels, like The Tailor's Breeches, which (IIRC) Clare does not care for. The recording also lists the book where each song is mentioned, so it was easy to find the ones from Tess.

As for the music and performance, both are very good - I did end up buying the CD after hearing The Tailor's Breeches on youtube (where you can find the other songs as well).

[Greg]

Tom wrote: "When reading older novels like Tess, if they mention music, I've taken to trying to find some examples to listen to. Songs of Thomas Hardy's Wessex compiles (some?) of the songs that Hardy mentions..."

Thanks so much Tom! I will definitely listen when I get back home. Some of the old folk/traditional ballads can be so beautiful. And I'd love to listen to the songs Hardy says that (view spoiler)[Tess learned for Clare's return. (hide spoiler)]

[Greg]

Leslie wrote: "I am finding that after the hypocrisy of [spoilers removed], I have found my interest diminishing. Tess may be acting in character but it is aggravating.

And now (at about 87% done), [spoilers re..."

Finished last week and can finally read all the spoilers. Indeed I did utter a loud groan when (view spoiler)[Alec popped back up (hide spoiler)]. Not unrealistic and quite poignant actually but also very aggravating! Poor Tess!

[Greg]

A few final thoughts to wrap this up:

I love the choice Hardy makes to pull back to (view spoiler)[Angel's (hide spoiler)] perspective so we don't have to directly experience (view spoiler)[Tess' relinquishment to Alec or her later execution (hide spoiler)]. I feel like that distance in perspective allows Tess some privacy and dignity in those terrible final moments. I also enjoyed the mystery of what had happened to her, following along with Angel from town to town.

One other thing I was very grateful for: I'm so happy that (view spoiler)[Angel had a change of heart and stuck with her in the end despite everything. It would've been too much for me if he had rejected her again! (hide spoiler)]

Overall, this is one of the most poignant novels I've read in recent memory. Not very uplifting, true, but so moving .. so beautiful. 5 stars for me, largely on the quality of the writing.

Some of the descriptions were just exquisite .. (view spoiler)[their final moments together in Stonehenge were beautifully written (hide spoiler)], but Hardy's craft was evident throughout. Another scene that stood out .. the description of the (view spoiler)[tilling of the burning fields (hide spoiler)] in chapter 50 was astoundingly vivid.

One closing thought - here's a weird comparison that for some reason occurred to me strongly - it occurred to me after finishing this novel that it shares a lot in common with Native Son by Richard Wright. Both meticulously describe the catastrophic effects a social/political system has on a person trapped within its meshes. In both cases, the protagonists' final desperate actions seem comprehensible even though they of course can't be condoned. In a game of chess, Bigger and Tess would both be pawns, and step by step, we see them maneuvered into positions where they have very few moves left ... and no good ones. Of course I like Tess of the D'Urbervilles better because I love Hardy's writing style, but I found both quite affecting!

[Pink]

Greg, I've read your thoughts and others with interest. I still haven't picked this up yet, so I won't join in with comments this time around, but I'll probably come back to this thread to compare my reaction when I do get around to it.

[Greg]

Pink wrote: "Greg, I've read your thoughts and others with interest. I still haven't picked this up yet, so I won't join in with comments this time around, but I'll probably come back to this thread to compare ..."

Sounds good Pink! I didn't manage to get to Hardy the last time he was a group selection myself. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts whenever you get around to it. :)

[Sara]

Greg wrote: "A few final thoughts to wrap this up:

I love the choice Hardy makes to pull back to [spoilers removed] perspective so we don't have to directly experience [spoilers removed]. I feel like that dist..."

Loved your thoughts on this book. I re-read it a few years ago and found it very moving, even knowing the outcome.

[Leslie]

I just want to say that I thought that we had a good discussion this time so thanks to everyone who participated! Whether you posted a single comment or a detailed analysis, it all adds to the overall discussion.

[Greg]

Sara wrote: "Greg wrote: "Loved your thoughts on this book. I re-read it a few years ago and found it very moving, even knowing the outcome...."

Thanks Sara :)

[Greg]

Leslie wrote: "I just want to say that I thought that we had a good discussion this time so thanks to everyone who participated! Whether you posted a single comment or a detailed analysis, it all adds to the over..."

I 100% agree Leslie - it was a great discussion! When a lot of people participate, I find I get much more out of the experience. Thanks everyone! :)

[Charbel]

I finished it last night! So here are some of my thoughts:
Hardy does a great job building up the story, and setting the various scenes. His knack for description is one if the best that I've come across.

Tess is intriguing; and you really can't help but think of her as a "poor creature" who was just too unfortunate in life. Angel, I did not like, along with D'Urberville (for obvious reasons).

The ending felt theatrical, maybe a bit too theatrical; but it was nonetheless very moving.

[Greg]

Charbel wrote: "I finished it last night! So here are some of my thoughts:
Hardy does a great job building up the story, and setting the various scenes. His knack for description is one if the best that I've come ..."

I agree Charbel, especially about the knack for descriptions, though I did forgive Angel by the end. I utterly despised D'Urberville of course!!

[Maggie the Muskoka Library Mouse]

A little slow for my liking.