Madam, want to talk about author Mary Stewart? discussion
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Thunder on the Right
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Thunder on the Right -- SPOILERLAND
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Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽, Moderator
(last edited Apr 15, 2014 10:42AM)
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rated it 3 stars
Hah! I just found this on a Mary Stewart website. Maybe this explains all of the ellipses and portentous weather as well:Ms. Stewart once claimed Thunder on the Right as her least favorite novel. "I detest that book. I'm ashamed of it, and I'd like to see it drowned beyond recovery. It's overwritten. It was actually the second book I wrote, and for some strange reason I went overboard, splurged with adjectives, all colored purple."
...I don't think it's that bad, but I'd agree that it's weaker than most of her other suspense novels.
I just found that quote, too. Sadly, I agree with her analysis on this one. Way too much description of rain and rocks and darkness. Jennifer was a weakling of a heroine by Stewart's standards, and Stephen was absent for most of the story. No romantic "zing" at all! An as for "splurged with adjectives, all colored purple.", how about this doozy:
"Only now, his own barriers crumbling, did he realize how deep and absolute had been his need for her; and in the very moment of fullest realization she was here and was his; his anchor, his still center, his searing flame, his peace...."
"Only now, his own barriers crumbling, did he realize how deep and absolute had been his need for her; and in the very moment of fullest realization she was here and was his; his anchor, his still center, his searing flame, his peace...."
Besides the descriptive passages being a bit over-the-top, I thought the plot was bit too busy. Mistaken identities, amnesia, smuggling, bank robbers, priceless art, black-mail, murder, etc. etc.; I don't know how but maybe one element could have been dropped and it wouldn't have felt so overwrought.
Maybe just by eliminating all the overly dramatic weather?
Jeannette wrote: "Maybe just by eliminating all the overly dramatic weather?"But I love weather and thunder storms! (heehee) I do think that not having Jenny tell the story herself slows it down. It works for most authors, but Mary Stewart gets into a character better when she tells the story. And I think then, too, we might have gotten a clue as to why Jenny was so clueless.
Karlyne wrote: I do think that not having Jenny tell the story herself slows it down..."This is the only one that is not written in first-person, isn't it? Maybe that's part of the reason it felt off.
I remember reading somewhere that when asked about why she does use the first person narrative, she said that the only time she didn't was a failure. I think Thunder must have haunted her, since it was just her second book!
Hmmm. According to Wikipedia and the MaryStewartnovels.com website, TotR was her third published novel. Maybe she wrote it second but it had a delayed publication? or maybe she just remembered the publication order wrong when she was reminiscing about it. Anyway, Madam, Will You Talk? was first, followed by Wildfire at Midnight, then Thunder. Luckily for all of us, she bounced back after Thunder with Nine Coaches Waiting. :)
Looks like I'm in the minority because I liked this story. I knew going in that Mary Stewart wasn't fond of it. I liked all the weather talk and really felt it added to the feeling of the story. Particularly when Jennifer has her revelation in chapter 17 and Stephen explains "Thunder on the Right."
Karlyne wrote: "And I think then, too, we might have gotten a clue as to why Jenny was so clueless. "
:D
:D
Diane Lynn wrote: "Looks like I'm in the minority because I liked this story. I knew going in that Mary Stewart wasn't fond of it. I liked all the weather talk and really felt it added to the feeling of the story. Pa..."
I liked that part, too, Diane. That's the revelation I was talking about in the discussion threads. I didn't dislike this enough to stop reading, like the way I dropped This Rough Magic, but there were just too many hand-wringing moments in this one. Jenny was not a typical MS heroine -- I can't imagine her in a nylon nightie -- and the romance was very scant. Can't blame Stephen, as he was absent much of the time. I was disappointed in Jenny pointing out to him that he's lame. Not a very good way to encourage your rescuer.
I liked that part, too, Diane. That's the revelation I was talking about in the discussion threads. I didn't dislike this enough to stop reading, like the way I dropped This Rough Magic, but there were just too many hand-wringing moments in this one. Jenny was not a typical MS heroine -- I can't imagine her in a nylon nightie -- and the romance was very scant. Can't blame Stephen, as he was absent much of the time. I was disappointed in Jenny pointing out to him that he's lame. Not a very good way to encourage your rescuer.
Tadiana wrote: "Hmmm. According to Wikipedia and the MaryStewartnovels.com website, TotR was her third published novel. Maybe she wrote it second but it had a delayed publication? or maybe she just remembered the ..."Wildfire was so "timely" with the Everest climb and all, that maybe Thunder got bumped?
I do like this story, too, Diane, and I'm very glad that Mary Stewart didn't rip it to shreds! The ending even now still gets me going after countless re-reads, but it's not my absolute favorite. My favorites have no flaws whatsoever. (That's my belief, and I'm stickin' to it!)
Diane Lynn wrote: "Looks like I'm in the minority because I liked this story."I don't actually dislike it--I gave it 3 stars (dislike would be 1 or 2 stars). I still enjoyed it, even though I found a lot of it eyeroll-inducing. I kind of lost it around the scene where Jenny faints when Pierre kisses her (!), then she wakes up tied up, then Dona Francesca arrives and stabs Pierre, and then there's this really overly dramatic (IMHO) scene where Pierre slowly comes to, drags himself off the floor, finds a knife and ominously staggers toward Jennifer.... And the thunder rolls and the lightning crashes, again and again.... :)
But it's all good, I still love Mary Stewart. Even at her worst she's still better than a lot of authors.
Tadiana wrote: "Diane Lynn wrote: "Looks like I'm in the minority because I liked this story."I don't actually dislike it--I gave it 3 stars (dislike would be 1 or 2 stars). I still enjoyed it, even though I fou..."
Hmmm, now that you mention it Tadiana, it does sort of sound like a Garth Brooks song... (These ellipses are killing me!)
I was singing to myself when I typed that line. :D
I would never have paired Garth Brooks and Mary Stewart, but it does seem to work! Oh, no! I just thought of Michael Martin Murphy for "Wildfire"! Where will this end?!
OK, I finally finished. I got distracted from reading TotR on my England holiday by a visit to Bath, which made me reread Persuasion. (I hope you all know this is one of the masterworks of Jane Austen, another favorite author of mine). I finished both novels today. Funny enough, there are parallels between the two books, occasionally confusing me! Both concern lovers forced by others to part who meet again after several years, cousins, and women with head injuries. But there all resemblance ends. TotR was never a favorite with me, and it still isn't. Although I quite liked the weather descriptions, the protagonists never came alive for me. Possibly because of the third-person narrative. And I much prefer the insta-love that was so well done in our last read, My Brother Michael, to the present one, which amounted to nothing more than Jenny running to Stephen three times with her hands stretched out and being kissed the third time, and Stephen having some exalted thoughts (which I won't repeat because many have done this already). Doña Francisca was a totally unlikely character, not to mention Gillian who regained her memory by a second shock, conveniently forgetting the episode where she lived as husband and wife with a criminal for three weeks. The only characters I liked were Celeste and Luis, whose love story I found far more interesting than the principal one.
All that said, it's still a Mary Stewart novel and I'll probably read it again in a couple of years.
Oh, how nice to be able to read Persuasion in Bath! (My top favorite from Jane!) I didn't see the similarities in the stories, but they are there.
Celeste and Luis had an interesting story, but Luis had a rather small part in the story, and Celeste not much more.
Celeste and Luis had an interesting story, but Luis had a rather small part in the story, and Celeste not much more.
Do we have any aspiring authors in this group? Celeste and Luis sounds like a good idea for a spin-off novel. ;)
This buddy read was a fail for me...no time to read. I will have to do it after the carpet fiasco is over and catch up with comments later.. Still no carpet, house is still a mess, carpet supplier will have an update today.
Judith wrote: "This buddy read was a fail for me...no time to read. I will have to do it after the carpet fiasco is over and catch up with comments later.. Still no carpet, house is still a mess, carpet supplier ..."Oh, I'm sure we'll all come back and jump right in with you. I hope you get floor resolves soon!
Houston! We have a carpet! Thank goodness the carpet was installed yesterday, and it only took a full month! :) Today we put everything back in the bedrooms and the study so my house is in order once more. I even found my book buried under a bunch of clothes. I'm so sorry I couldn't join in reading Thunder on the Right. I can tell from the comments you all had a lot of fun reading it. Hope to go back and start reading the book again. I had only gotten to chapter 2 before the carpet fiasco. Thanks for all the encouraging words.
Judith,So your long domestic nightmare is finally over - hoorah!
Maybe you can join in on the next MS read. I think we're leaning toward Rose Cottage for June or July.
Woot! Woot! Congrats on having your house back, Judith!
Hannah wrote: "Judith,So your long domestic nightmare is finally over - hoorah!
Maybe you can join in on the next MS read. I think we're leaning toward Rose Cottage for June or July."
Absolutely! would love to join in.
Hooray! I'm so glad you've found everything!
Cheers!
Just read this novel a few months ago. Took me a long time to find it! For the past several years I've been trying to read all of MS books, so was thrilled to find this elusive book. I have to say however this was one of my least favorite MS books. The plot was interesting but the characters were not, so it was very hard to stay focused. I probably picked this book up a half dozen times before I could finish it. and as much as I,like MS descriptive prose....too much in this book.
Ive heard this is one of the few 3rd person novels of MS. Not sure a 1st person Jennifer however would have made that much of a difference to me. She just was not a likeable enough character for me.
Teaqueen wrote: "Just read this novel a few months ago. Took me a long time to find it! For the past several years I've been trying to read all of MS books, so was thrilled to find this elusive book. I have to sa..."
It's got a bit of the helpless heroine and more than a bit of the Gothic about it. The only reason I enjoy it is because it IS a Mary Stewart, after all, and the descriptions of the scenery and, well, the thunder! are pretty entrancing.
I didn’t care for this one. It didn’t pull me in and I’m with Teaqueen, Jennifer was not a likable enough character for me either.
She's kind of a nonentity, not obnoxious or arrogant, but other than her tenacity, she doesn't have much personality.
I agree, Karlyne!
Karlyne wrote: "She's kind of a nonentity, not obnoxious or arrogant, but other than her tenacity, she doesn't have much personality."Me three. It did occur to me (as I was glancing through it last week; I didn't have the time or inclination to give this one a full reread) that my rating would probably improve at least half a star if all of the ellipses were taken out. And possibly the fainting scene.
Do people really faint these days, or has it gone the way of endless cigarettes and nylon nighties?
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Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽, Moderator
(last edited Jul 16, 2017 04:26PM)
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rated it 3 stars
Good question! I mean, I know people occasionally faint in real life, but its use as a plot point in books has pretty much disappeared. So, did women actually faint more in the old days, maybe because it was socially expected (or because they wore corsets), or was all the fainting just an imaginary thing and a useful plot device?P.S. Here's Wikipedia's take: "Fainting in women was a commonplace trope or stereotype in Victorian England and in contemporary and modern depictions of the period. This may have been partly due to genuine ill health (the respiratory effects of corsets are frequently cited), but it was fashionable for women to affect an aristocratic frailty and create a scene by fainting at a dramatic moment."
I was thinking that poor diet might have been a factor, too! But Jennifer was eating just fine.
Pirates of the Caribbean (the first film) was very funny about fainting because of corsets. But I also think the emphasis on fragility and fainting in Victorian times was one of the ways (along with musical recitals, painting) that potential brides demonstrated to young men (and their powerful parents) that they were passive, delicate and would not try to run things themselves. Also very definitely a thing in Gone With the Wind.I've never liked TOTR because of MS's decision to experiment with third person in it. I think a big part of her heroines' charm is their courage, decisiveness and humour and this just doesn't come across in third person. We've complained about Gianetta's feebleness regarding her marriage in Wildfire At Midnight - I can just imagine how limp and tedious she would seem in third person. It's her spirited first-person narration that makes her likeable - ditto worried wife Vanessa in Airs Above The Ground. So Jennifer just doesn't stand a chance.
I also think the setting is one of the weaker ones - it's difficult to buy a gloomy medieval monastery in the 1960s, whereas a Northumbrian farmhouse or a Greek island seem perfectly reasonable.
Well, my daughter did faint when my sister had to tell her her father/my husband died suddenly while we were out of town. She is otherwise one of the strongest, most down to earth people I know. So yes, fainting does still happen under extreme circumstances.
Shock, if course, is a powerful thing, and you're right to remind us, MaryL.
Of course, not if course. Still getting used to this brand of auto-correct!
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Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽, Moderator
(last edited Jul 17, 2017 10:19AM)
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rated it 3 stars
If it weren't for the "edit" button people on GR would think my IQ was 30 points lower. :)
My phone is apparently the Stripped Down Goodreads version, minus most every button. But I'll get the ol' laptop back on Friday !
Jenny faints when Pierre kisses her (!), then she wakes up tied up, then Dona Francesca arrives and stabs Pierre, and then there's this really overly dramatic (IMHO) scene where Pierre slowly comes to, drags himself off the floor, finds a knife and ominously staggers toward Jennifer.... And the thunder rolls and the lightning crashes, again and again....wasn't that something? I liked it, actually, although fainting because of the villian kissing you was over the top.
but generally, I loved how dramatic it became, after a long slow build up, although I agree writing in the third person was a mistake.
I'll be anxious to see if it hold up for me on re-read.
Lol, I’m tickled that you quoted my old comment on that DRAMATIC scene. :) Glad you enjoyed the read!
I'll be singing some more Garth Brooks now.
I've just been looking at my other MS romantic suspense reviews & none of them came in lower than 3.5★.(two of her cottage ones are another matter!) & I think I liked My Brother Michael less than this one but I still can't go above 3★this time. I still enjoyed this one, but parts were clumsily written. But an action packed finale that was generally thrilling. As Tadiana said earlier even a weaker MS is still better than most other books on the market.
Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "As Tadiana said earlier even a weaker MS is still better than most other books on the market.":D I still stand by that statement.
And I still agree, Tadiana! I think all of Stewart's books are heavy on the visuals; just mention a title, and I'm cued in to what the scenery is. This one might have the most vivid and wild and weird impressions, though, so it still works for me.
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