Classics and the Western Canon discussion
Frankenstein
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A Frankenstein Potpourri
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These comments are from Critical Survey of Long Fiction, Fourth Edition; January 2010, p1-8. Some food for thought here, perhaps? Do any of these strike a chord with you? Or do you have other ideas to add to this comment?The critical task regarding this fascinating work has been to identify what it is that Frankenstein has done that has merited the punishment that followed. Is the monster a kind of retribution for people’s arrogant attempt to possess the secrets of life and death, as in the expulsion from Eden? Is it the wrath of the gods visited on people for stealing the celestial fire, as in the Prometheus legend, a favorite fiction of Percy Shelley? Or is this a rather modern vision of the self-destructiveness involved in the idealistic denial of the dark side of human reality? Is this a criticism of Romantic optimism, of the denial of the reality of evil except as the utterly disposable dead hand of tradition? The mystery endures because critics have suggested all these possibilities; critics have even suggested a biographical reading of the work. Some have suggested that Victor Frankenstein is Shelley’s shrewd insight into her husband’s self-deceived, uncritical belief in the power of his own intelligence and in his destined greatness.
To what extent, if at all, were you aware as you were reading that virtually the entire story is a flashback? And how, if at all, does this affect the story -- the fact that we know at the outset that VF is chasing his creation over the frozen northern wastes, to the probable death of both? At some point did this slip out of your mind (as it did out of mine) as you got immersed in the story? Or were you aware at some level throughout the whole reading of how the story was likely to end?
In the first part of the book, M. Waldman says, "The labours of the men of genius, however erroneously directed, scarcely ever fail in ultimately turning to the solid advantage of mankind.". I wonder if Shelley could have glimpsed our world, with cloning and robotics and the like, if she would find this statement to be true? Or perhaps that question isn't relevant. :-)I appreciate you all being patient with my clumsy attempts at discussion. I have a degree in music (piano), and so am familiar with Romanticism in music, but almost completely ignorant as to what it means in literature. After reading up on it a bit, I see I was completely off in some of my earlier remarks about the soul and spirit!
Genni wrote: "...After reading up on it a bit, I see I was completely off in some of my earlier remarks about the soul and spirit! ..."Many of us learn here by exactly that process of trying ideas and then revisiting them -- whether prompted by others or our intuition. Thx for your comments through out, Genni.
Lily wrote: "Genni wrote: "...After reading up on it a bit, I see I was completely off in some of my earlier remarks about the soul and spirit! ..."Many of us learn here by exactly that process of trying idea..."
Thank you, Lily!
It is not literature that I have followed, so can't speak specifically, but it is my understanding that several of the principals involved with the nuclear bomb development and usage have had subsequent deep soul searching and received criticism for their creative actions. Perhaps others here can comment on any books or articles that they might consider particularly thoughtful in the broad context of the issues Frankenstein poses.
Is the news headline yesterday that 1,700 children are born weekly in the United States to girls under eighteen (15-17) relevant to our discussion here?At one level, any linkage may well seem even abhorrent. But, at another, might we not ponder on the fates that await both creators and created, as well as our society itself?
Lily wrote: "It is not literature that I have followed, so can't speak specifically, but it is my understanding that several of the principals involved with the nuclear bomb development and usage have had subse..."I worked on the periphery of nuclear nonproliferation efforts for a few years. Many of the scientists did some deep soul searching while working on the Manhattan Project, as well as after. Many worked on nonproliferation efforts over the course of decades. They provide an interesting contrast to those who continued on to develop the H-bomb.
There are quite a few books on the development of the bomb (and later the H-bomb) - several are long and detailed (see Richard Rhodes for some of these titles), so that may not be exactly what you are looking for. Here are a few that might be a better fit:
The Curve of Binding Energy: A Journey into the Awesome and Alarming World of Theodore B. Taylor - short read about a really interesting guy and brilliant physicist. It is a bit old, as it was written in the 1970s, which is about the time people started thinking about individuals or other non-state actors obtaining weapons-grade fissionable material. This is about his thoughts as a post-WWII weapons developer who then had second thoughts.
The Manhattan Project: The Birth of the Atomic Bomb in the Words of Its Creators, Eyewitnesses and Historians - contains essays from many who were involved and from a variety of perspectives. I haven't read all of the essays, but have read some.
By the Bomb's Early Light: American Thought and Culture at the Dawn of the Atomic Age - another collection of essays from different perspectives. I picked up this book a while ago and haven't quite gotten to it yet.
Copenhagen - an interesting play about a meeting that happened in Copenhagen between physicists Niels Bohr and Werner Heisenberg. The latter was in charge of the German effort to develop a nuclear weapon; the former was his mentor. No one knows what they discussed and both gave conflicting reports later in life.
Lily wrote: "Is the news headline yesterday that 1,700 children are born weekly in the United States to girls under eighteen (15-17) relevant to our discussion here?At one level, any linkage may well seem eve..."
I'm not sure I see that as a particularly useful discussion, since so much depends on the character of the women involved, any family support they may or may not have, community and social program support, etc. I don't believe that there is any typical case that we could use to throw light on the Frankenstein/creation relationship.
But if anybody sees it otherwise and thinks there is a useful comparison to draw, of course they are welcome do do so.
Everyman wrote: "I'm not sure I see that as a particularly useful discussion, since so much depends on. . ."From the perspective of the number of unwanted children that those 1,700 children born weekly to girls under 18 is likely to produce, respecting all the dependencies, it brings the relevant themes of responsibility for what we create and the universal need to love and be loved.
How many of these unwanted children could grow up to say things like:
”I am malicious because I am miserable.”
And,
”I will revenge my injuries; if I cannot inspire love, I will cause fear; and chiefly towards you my arch-enemy, because my creator, do I swear inextinguishable hatred. I will work and destroy, nor finish until I desolate your heart so that you curse the hour of your birth.”
Most alarming is the door that, “. . .Chiefly towards. . .my arch-enemy. . .”, leaves open.
David wrote: "”I will revenge my injuries; if I cannot inspire love, I will cause fear; and chiefly towards you my arch-enemy, because my creator, do I swear inextinguishable hatred.."This reminds me of the comments made by inmates who have read the book.
http://exhibitions.nypl.org/biblion/o...
“You want it? You want a monster? Well, I’ll show you a monster.”
Frankenstein fears the Creature and denies him the humanity that he set out to create. The Creature in turn rejects his own humanity and seeks revenge against those who have hurt him. It's a no-win situation based on prejudice and fear.
What might have happened if Frankenstein had the courage to sit down and calmly communicate with his Creature? (Frankenstein at Camp David, coming soon to a theater near you.)
David wrote: "From the perspective of the number of unwanted children that those 1,700 children born weekly to girls under 18 is likely to produce, respecting all the dependencies, it brings the relevant themes of responsibility for what we create and the universal need to love and be loved...."David -- thank you for understanding the perspective I was trying to touch upon in this rather extreme analogy.
I would add that it is not always that these children are "unwanted," but still that their creators are often unprepared (and will continue to be so) to deal with the ongoing love, care and support of what they have created -- as was true for Frankenstein. (Those close to these issues tell us young women may believe they will now have someone to love -- and my experiences working with homeless women indicates many of them do love and support each other and their children in very difficult circumstances. The strains and risks are simply there for both child and parent in ways that may be greater than for older mothers.)
And, I don't mean to belabor the analogy.
Thomas wrote: "What might have happened if Frankenstein had the courage to sit down and calmly communicate with his Creature? (Frankenstein at Camp David, coming soon to a theater near you.) "I think you should write the Frankenstein variant in which VF does, as you suggest, embrace his creation and help him use his special talents (strength, caring, intelligence, affection) to become a productive member of society. It would be an interesting work to read!
It's not hard to see why this story has spawned so many Frankenstein movies. So many questions raised and so few answers given. I'm not sure a mediation story would do very well... maybe as a movie with great character actors. Paul Giamatti as Frankenstein and John Malkovich as the Creature, directed by Louis Malle. (I believe he is deceased, but with a big enough budget this is not a problem in Hollywood.)
David wrote: "...How many of these unwanted children could grow up to say things like:..."From tonight's news stories:
"Intended to save the lives of unwanted infants, a 13-year-old Safe Haven law in Utah allows biological parents to give up custody of a child without facing legal consequences.
"A crisis worker at the group Save Haven said the agency had received several calls since Saturday from people asking how they can turn in unwanted infants."
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationn...
Although every state undoubtedly has child protection legislation, I am unfamiliar with how wide-spread is legislation such as this in Utah.
That is as horrific as anything Mary Shelley wrote.
Lily wrote: "David wrote: "...How many of these unwanted children could grow up to say things like:..."From tonight's news stories:
"Intended to save the lives of unwanted infants, a 13-year-old Safe Haven l..."
I believe that most states that enacted safe haven laws hoped to decrease infant deaths by abuse & neglect in their states...truly tragic. I'd rather have someone who is overwhelmed by their circumstances leave the baby in a safe place than that baby being neglected to death or a victim of shaken baby syndrome. Many hospitals are designated as safe havens
Chris wrote: "...most states that enacted safe haven laws hoped to decrease infant deaths by abuse & neglect in their states...truly tragic. I'd rather have someone who is overwhelmed by their circumstances leave the baby in a safe place than that baby being neglected..."More on the complexities of owning creation in our 21st century America:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/15/...
Classics and the Western Canon
Books mentioned in this topic
The Curve Of Binding Energy (other topics)Manhattan Project: The Birth of the Atomic Bomb in the Words of Its Creators, Eyewitnesses and Historians. (other topics)
By the Bomb's Early Light: American Thought and Culture at the Dawn of the Atomic Age (other topics)
Copenhagen (other topics)
Sounds, and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices
That, if I then had waked after long sleep
Will make me sleep again; and then in dreaming
The clouds methought would open and show riches
Ready to drop upon me, that when I waked
I cried to dream again (III.ii.130–138)."
Some of the beautiful words of the Creature brought this wonderful speech by Caliban, the Monster of Shakespeare's "The Tempest." How do Caliban and the Creature compare to each other? Can you think of other literary monsters that can be compared to Frankenstein's creation? What do these outcasts tell us about society?
As we wrap up our reading of "Frankenstein," use this thread to present and respond to some of the themes that have kept this cult novel alive for for almost two centuries.