THE RIVER OF NO RETURN: General Discussion

[Amy, Queen of Time]

Mark wrote: "Amy wrote: "Interesting. By the end of the prequel, Burt Reynolds got cast in my mind as Julia's grandfather."

Burt Reynolds? Seriously? What about in the main novel?"

Ha. Once I'd put a younger Burt Reynolds in the role in the prequel, it seemed that an older crotchety Burt Reynolds could have played the part in the main novel. :P

[Amy, Queen of Time]

Question 7 Answer:
(view spoiler)[I'd be more likely to come to the conclusion that wars (and/or plagues) are manufactured by some Big Brother organization for population control rather than for the sake of money. If I were a betting person, I'd bet on a war from China in the next few decades for this purpose. (hide spoiler)] (Chapter 32)

Question 8 Answer:
(view spoiler)[I'm not sure whether or not I can see friendship as being the precursor to money. I suppose that within the early family structure, everyone would have their own jobs to do and contribute to the whole out of a survival obligation. But there would have been times when you had more of something than your family needed which would lend itself to waste, storage, or barter. Within a mobile society, there would certainly be a limit to the amount a family could store and carry with them. Kill a mastodon, make some clothes, dry and smoke some meat, and still you've got leftovers even for a very large family. It reminds me of the game of Oregon Trail where you'd hope you'd encounter a large animal to feed your family with minimum effort, but you were never able to carry the whole thing with you. So then you barter your mastodon leftovers with groups around for something else you need. Or maybe you tell them to put it on their tab for later when you're hungry and they've managed to kill a mastodon. Still, it's the barter system and not really a friendship system outside of your own family. (hide spoiler)] (Chapter 35)

Question 9 Answer:
An idea for the purpose of the talisman still eludes me. I guess we'll have to find out in the next book in the series.

Question 10 Answer:
As for Mr. Mibbs, I have to wonder if he's not (view spoiler)[Julia's father. Who else would be wandering all over time looking for a baby? (hide spoiler)]

Question 11:
After reaching the end of the book, what do you think is beyond the Pale? What are your ideas about why the Pale is (view spoiler)[being back at the rate of a day earlier every day? (hide spoiler)]

[Bee]

Thanks, everyone, for reading my novel! It's been wonderful, reading your comments. I'm very grateful. I'm sorry about the cliffhanger, Samantha. I am working on a sequel, so hopefully your questions will be answered!

[Samantha]

I'm glad to hear that and I'll definitely snap it up when it comes out.

[Mark]

Thanks Bee - there had to be a sequel: too many unanswered questions!

[Lincoln, Temporal Jester]

Concerning my post Message 95...

My biggest complaint I suppose would be the pace of the book...However, if this is intended to be series and not a stand alone...you can spend a lot of book one to establish characters. Just need to be reminded that an entire other book is waiting and both and or entire series need to be considered.

That being said I hope there is still payoff at the conclusion of book one.

[Amy, Queen of Time]

Lincoln wrote: "Concerning my post Message 95...

My biggest complaint I suppose would be the pace of the book...However, if this is intended to be series and not a stand alone...you can spend a lot of book one to..."

I did feel that it was slow at times (especially at the beginning as he's being prepared for time travel). However, I felt that it it had the pace of a serial novel that is meant to be enjoyed over time. A longer book with slow parts allows you to slow down and smell the proverbial roses just a bit. That's one of the beauties of the longer novel or a series; it allows the reader more of an immersion in the story. It also allows the writer more of a freedom to let their characters and settings develop. There were a couple of areas that perhaps could have been tightened up for some readers. However, taken as a whole, I think the slower parts worked fine. Everyone has their own preferences, though.

Lincoln, I will warn you that there are definitely several questions left at the end (Discussion Questions 9-11 address these), but it just makes me look forward to a sequel that much more.

[MK]

Bee wrote: "... I am working on a sequel..."

Looking forward to it very much!

[Mark]

Amy wrote: "Lincoln wrote: "Concerning my post Message 95...

My biggest complaint I suppose would be the pace of the book...However, if this is intended to be series and not a stand alone...you can spend a lo..."

I think a slow pace was necessary to set the scene so well, explain what circumstances the protagonist has found himself in, and do exposition without shouting 'exposition!' at the reader. Bee did a good job of that, and answering questions that were at the back of my head about the 'rules' governing this universe.

[Lincoln, Temporal Jester]

Answer to Question 7 after Chapter 32.

(view spoiler)[To boil all wars down to money is short sighted. Of course there is economy of war, and just economy of people. If the guild is "recruiting" from war to make money...I get the idea of being a grave peril to make your jump. There are so many other ways to get wealthy not involving war...but how do you make stock brokers fear for their lives to make the jump?

Also, chapter 32 addressed my issue of why is Nick not more proactive and questioning his situation and the guild. If he was more akin to that type of person he would of been treated differently by the guild at the outset. He is a follower, good worker bee that is why he can be trusted. (hide spoiler)]

[MK]

I am looking forward to your review and rating when you're done Lincoln.

[Lincoln, Temporal Jester]

Answer to Question 8 After Chapter 35

(view spoiler)[Friendship as debt? I suppose at some level...who is paying for lunch today. If your friendship is based on "transactions". Also, if a friend has done me some awesome favor I might feel indebted. However, being a true friend to someone, its not about keeping score and who owes who what. As a friend I think you are willing to do anything you can for each other. (hide spoiler)]

[Tom]

I just joined this group and decided to give this book a try even though I'm a bit behind. Good thing I don't have too many plans for Memorial Day weekend.

[MK]

It's a really good book, Tom! Hope you like it. Welcome :)

[Heather(Gibby)]

I finished this book today and really enjoyed it.
I really like the character "Peter" and was disappointed she did not come back into the story after her first appearance-maybe next book? There were a few unanswered questions, I thought the mystery of Mr. Mibbs would be explained in a bit more detail than it was. I like my time travel books to go back and forth in time, and this one did somewhat, but again I hope Julia gets a chance to see the future in the next book.

Well done Bee!

[Bee]

Thanks again, everyone, and Heather, I'm so glad you liked the novel. I'm sorry, LIncoln, that you didn't. Romance is one of the genres I "mash-up" in the novel, and I know that it isn't to everyone's taste. This has been a wonderful discussion and I'm grateful for everyone's time and attention. Happy future -- and past -- reading to one and all!

[Lincoln, Temporal Jester]

Bee,

I hope I have not been to harsh on you. You wrote a beautiful book with so much atmosphere and wonderful characters. You can feel the cold of the Vermont night. You can imagine the dark eyes of Julia pushing Nick along on the battlefield. So much is rich and wonderful. You did an incredible job creating this world, I am just a stickler for now going there how would people live and react and be there. Perhaps, I am overly critical in that your book is to realistic, in that the action is not in your face but is subtle and going on elsewhere away from the main characters.

See you down river.

[Bee]

No problem, Lincoln -- I value all criticism, both from happy and unhappy readers. I'm sorry the novel wasn't to your taste but I'm very glad you read it, and grateful that the group read it. Publishing is so rough these days, and finding groups of readers is wonderful.

Lincoln wrote: "Bee,

I hope I have not been to harsh on you. You wrote a beautiful book with so much atmosphere and wonderful characters. You can feel the cold of the Vermont night. You can imagine the dark ey..."

[Lance]

I have just posted my review, copied here to save you all the bother of skipping across to find that review on my profile...

This book will appeal to most aficionados of the time travel genre. There is quite a lot of originality in the thinking behind the plot and sub-plots. There are conflicts which span time and space; the latter constrained to the surface of planet Earth, of course, but that leaves plenty of scope.

When I was a young lad, reading many books and watching plenty of films, I never had much difficulty in distinguishing the "goodies" from the "baddies." I confess that, having finished this book, I am still in some doubt, and would have personal, internal conflicts if I had to choose sides. (view spoiler)[It seems a fairly obvious choice between Ofan and Guild at this point, but I expect that could be brought into question in book two. (hide spoiler)]

There are some characters who are obviously bad eggs from the first encounter. Eamon is one such.

The main characters are well developed, especially Nick and his sisters, and Julia.

I would have liked to have seen a bit more about how Nick dealt with his political detractors.

The pace was good in the first third of the book, but then slowed down a little too much for my liking, and picked up again towards the end.

The author has teased my sense of curiosity to the point where I will have to read the second book just to find out what happens to Jem Jemison, and to understand the real significance of the talisman.

Mr Mibbs also remains a bit of a mystery. Is he acting as a powerful individual? He is clearly neither Ofan nor Guild, and neither organisation understands him. Perhaps he is a member of a third organisation, which will come to the fore in the sequel.

As for suggestions for which actors should play which main parts in a film of the book, my suggestions would be Leonardo DiCaprio to play Nick, and Helena Bonham-Carter to play Julia.

I would definitely recommend this book to all my time-travel-loving friends.

[Colleen]

Lance wrote: "I have just posted my review, copied here to save you all the bother of skipping across to find that review on my profile...

This book will appeal to most aficionados of the time travel genre. The..."

I think if you have Leo play Nick you must have Kate Winslet play Julia...

[Lance]

Colleen wrote: "I think if you have Leo play Nick you must have Kate Winslet play Julia..."

That's a very good point, Colleen, but I am in love with HBC!!!

Maybe I should think from the other direction and choose somebody suitable from her long list of co-stars. Richard Madden would be great in the role.

UNLESS, she insisted that Lance Greenfield Mitchell play the role! There are some scenes which I would MOST enjoy!

[Tom]

Despite a late start I am within a day or two of the ending and look forward to the finish. I really enjoyed the characters and their interactions. Bee did a really good job with almost all of them. I particularly enjoyed Bee's sense of humor and how she used it to create depth in her characters, particularly Julia.

The part that did not do much for me was the conflict between the Guild and the Ofan. Ihe reason for the disagreement wasn't made clear to me so I really wasn't engaged in it. It seems like it should have been a key plot line in the story but it ended up as a rather irritating side note.

My other disappointment is that Nick didn't recognize Neil Young when he made his cameo on page 388.

All in all, this was a good book and I enjoyed reading it. Thanks to whoever suggested it and thanks to Bee for writing it and for her participation in this conversation.

[Amy, Queen of Time]

Tom wrote: "The part that did not do much for me was the conflict between the Guild and the Ofan. Ihe reason for the disagreement wasn't made clear to me so I really wasn't engaged in it. It seems like it should have been a key plot line in the story but it ended up as a rather irritating side note...."

The Guild is money-hungry and interested in preserving the past in such a way as to stay rich. It also exploits its members. More of the evil of The Guild is showcased in the prequel, The Time Tutor. If you're interested enough in reading it, I think it will become a little more clear why there became a need for a splinter group in opposition to The Guild ... if for no other reason than to have an alternative and safe group to belong to where your peers are fellow time travelers.

[Lance]

Tom wrote: "The part that did not do much for me was the conflict between the Guild and the Ofan. Ihe reason for the disagreement wasn't made clear to me so I really wasn't engaged in it...."

I think that you make a good point, Tom. Although, I got the feeling that they had a lot in common, even a common goal.

Whether deliberate or not, Bee has succeeded there in bringing out a topic for debate in the world as it exists outside of fiction. Isn't it true that many conflicting "sides" in this world have far more in common than they have differences? I believe so!

[Tom]

Amy wrote: "The Guild is money-hungry and interested in preserving the past ..."

I guess the modern world has made me cynical. I am slow to believe outright what anybody says they or their rivals stand for or against. It's one's actions that reveal the truth.

Lance wrote: "Bee has succeeded there in bringing out a topic for debate in the world as it exists outside of fiction."

A good point! In the world we live in there are factions (I won't say who) that face the same challenges yet vehemently refuse to work together to resolve them. That is the world I am fleeing from when I run to fiction. I don't wish to see it there too. ;>).

Lance wrote: "I am in love with HBC!!!"

I can certainly understand that but if Helena were to play Julia the expense of filming in 1990 would almost require pockets as deep as the Guild has.

[Lance]

Tom wrote: "I can certainly understand that but if Helena were to play Julia the expense of filming in 1990 would almost require pockets as deep as the Guild has. ..."

Good point Tom. Am I old already, or did I just jump to this time from somewhen else?!

[Lincoln, Temporal Jester]

HBC lover here as well! Nothing quite as good as a honey bacon club it's delicious! Please pardon my Monday morning humor.

[Lance]

Lincoln wrote: "HBC lover here as well! Nothing quite as good as a honey bacon club it's delicious! Please pardon my Monday morning humor."

It's late Monday afternoon here, Lincoln, so I can take it!

[Amy, Queen of Time]

Lincoln wrote: "HBC lover here as well! Nothing quite as good as a honey bacon club it's delicious! Please pardon my Monday morning humor."

Oh, a honey bacon club sounds delicious since I only managed to grab a piece of bread with honey on it for breakfast (resulting in a currently growling stomach).

Tom wrote: "In the world we live in there are factions (I won't say who) that face the same challenges yet vehemently refuse to work together to resolve them. That is the world I am fleeing from when I run to fiction. I don't wish to see it there too. ;>)..."

I have to agree. I generally see a book that advertises itself as being about Faction A vs. Faction B and run the other way.

[Tom]

Lincoln wrote: "HBC lover here as well! Nothing quite as good as a honey bacon club it's delicious!"

GROAN!!! (trans: highest form of praise in punster circles)

[Amy, Queen of Time]

Tom wrote: "GROAN!!! (trans: highest form of praise in punster circles)"

Is there a group for that?

[Lincoln, Temporal Jester]

My review of The River of No Return

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...