The alt-TOB Idea

[Rebecca]

I wish I could "like" comments because I'm liking everything I read here! Thanks to our organizers for the hard work they are doing right now.

[Lark]

Kendra wrote: "Is there any more room for an alternate/finals judge?"

Hi Kendra, absolutely. We're an inclusive group here and anyone who wants to volunteer to be a judge in the Final Round need only ask.

I'm also going to start banging the drum for people to be Readers--the more people who want to try to read all 16 of our alt.TOB books the better. I realize that's hard to commit just now when you have no idea what books we'll be putting forth as alt.TOB contenders! But once we post that list I'm going to ask people here to think about asking their power-reader friends from other groups to come on in and party with us.

[Lark]

Pre-Final Judges:

1. Michele
2. AmberBug
3. nomadreader
4. Jason
5. Drew
6. Rebecca
7. Amy
8. Jane from B.C.
9. Jen
10. Ryan
11. Topher
12. Heather
13. jo
14. Gayla
_________________________
Finals Judges and/or Alternate Judges:

Rachel, Ellen, Lljones, Katie, Arianna, Darryl, Kendra

[Jason]

Jennifer wrote: "We are concentrating on the lists right now... but will be having logistics discussions super-soon. :)

(And I would like to create a separate folder for logistics/how it will work, too. Once we are settled on all the details.)"

It all sounds great to me. I hope you take a dictatorial approach and don't try to accommodate everyone's different ideas. We trust you guys and are really excited to see what you come up with.

[Jan]

Poingu wrote: "I'm also going to start banging the drum for people to be Readers--the more people who want to try to read all 16 of our alt.TOB books the better...."

Is it just me? I volunteered to be an enthusiastic member of the peanut gallery, but completely wilted just now at the thought of trying to read SIXTEEN Alt.TOB books along with all my normal reading, pre-reading I try to do for the regular tourney, book group books, older lit, diversity reading, brain candy reading, etc. To me, 8 books -- regardless of how many willing judges we have -- is just too much. Nevertheless, I'm excited about this adventure, love the energy & enthusiasm and hard work that's going into it, and will follow along as best I can as we move forward. An 8-book Alt tourney feels much less hopeless. ;-)

[Jan]

Excuse me for being incoherent. I meant a 16-book Alt tournament is feeling like too much. Wanted to offer that thought in case anyone else is feeling the same

[Jason]

My fear is that it's going to collide with the real TOB short list release and any book on the alt-list that doesn't make the TOB is going to fall off my TBR. #firstworldproblems

[Lark]

Jan wrote: "Is it just me?"

Don't worry Jan--it will not fall all on your shoulders by any means to read all 16 because it's just a "do what feels fun" exercise that we're about, always. I'm hoping, and possibly it's an unrealistic hope, that some of us will challenge themselves to participate to the fullest and try to read all 16, or alternatively start all 16 and put down the ones that they hate as soon as they feel they've given them a good shot.

Also Jennifer and I are taking to heart the feedback here about limiting picks to 400 pages or less. I'm delighted to report there are plenty of great reads to choose from that are even shorter than this, including ones that are at the lower end of "novel" length this year.

True there are going to be some doorstopper books on the long list because we love them. But feel free to think of these as suggestions for the future, because they won't advance to our round of 16.

Maybe if we do this again next year we can start earlier and relax the length rule. But maybe we'll decide to keep the books short and sweet-it's another way to make this a fun and different way to read together, vs. something that tries to copy TOB, or to guess the books they will choose and try to get the same 16, or to follow their guidelines of including NBA winners, YA books, etc. We're trying to make this a different experience and any overlap will be strictly coincidental.

[Lark]

Jason wrote: "My fear is that it's going to collide with the real TOB short list release and any book on the alt-list that doesn't make the TOB is going to fall off my TBR. #firstworldproblems"

Yes, that's why I'm thinking if we get our list of 16 up next week we then have the rest of November and all of December to read as many as we like.

Last year the TOB 16 was announced January 6. So it would be good to have our alt. reading done by then and judges in later rounds could even look to their quartile in the alt.tournament and read those first, to be ready for when their turn comes.

Then even as we're reading the TOB 16 we're passing the popcorn and running our tournament on the side with our alt. books in it.

[Lark]

Can you believe we just started this conversation 5 days ago? I can't.

I want to back up and give attention to Jan's suggestion that we hold a tournament with 8 books instead of 16. Thoughts?

[Jan]

Poingu wrote: "Jan wrote: "Is it just me?"

Don't worry Jan--it will not fall all on your shoulders by any means to read all 16 because it's just a "do what feels fun" exercise that we're about, always. I'm hopin..."

Thanks, Poingu!!

[Rebecca]

I don't have strong feelings about it. With 8, more people could read more of the books. The altToB would be quicker with less overlap with the official ToB. OTOH, we have enough judges (and more) for 16 books. I guess it depends on whether we want to encourage participation at the judging level, or at the level of readers reading along.

[Jen]

I'm happy either way. If we decide on fewer books, I would be fine to relinquish my judging slot and focus on reading. But I also like the idea of a more diverse list of books, and running a 'full' tournament.

[Rebecca]

Yes to a more diverse list of books!

[Lark]

Rebecca wrote: "Yes to a more diverse list of books!"

Hmm, yes, if we have 16 selections then people will definitely have more choices of what to read and how many to read.

[Jan]

Poingu wrote: "Rebecca wrote: "Yes to a more diverse list of books!"

Hmm, yes, if we have 16 selections then people will definitely have more choices of what to read and how many to read."

Yes, I like this aspect of a bigger list...more books to choose from. BTW, thanks for the screening you and Jen are doing!!

[Lark]

Thanks Carol. Ok, we're going with 16. Once we have the books selected I have a strong feeling we'll be joined by other book lovers who will try to read all 16, too.

I think if judges focus first on reading their two books (if in the first round), and focus next in their "quadrant" of the tourney, then they will have a good experience even if they don't have time for all 16.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Lark]

The calm before the storm.

Jennifer and I are talking all the time now about our round of 16 selections. If there are any books you feel have been unfairly overlooked this year please vote on

https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/9...

We will be considering all novels on this list that qualify plus many more. It doesn't matter if you're the only vote--we'll look at all the books on the list.

Thanks everybody!

[Jan]

Thanks, Poingu. Great list. I voted for the books I'm most interested in reading but haven't gotten to yet. Wouldn't necessarily say they've been unfairly overlooked, however. :-)

[Huntleybrinkley]

Poingu:
Mostly a lurker here and at the TOB but I am excited to see how this goes. Voted on your list and added The Mark and the Void by Paul Murray because who doesn't love a philosophical and satirical love story about the international financial collapse (with a whole chapter just on the philosophy of Jacques Texier...who?). Will hang with the peanut gallery, but if you need an odd member for the finals panel... (wait...that didn't come out right)

[Lark]

Jan wrote: "Thanks, Poingu. Great list. I voted for the books I'm most interested in reading but haven't gotten to yet. Wouldn't necessarily say they've been unfairly overlooked, however. :-)"

It's giving me such a good feeling that the feedback Jennifer and I are getting is all about people wanting to read books new to them vs. judging books they already have formed opinions about. Quite a few have asked for small press selections to be surely part of the mix, too. What a wonderful, adventurous lot we are! Or in Huntleybrinkley's words, Odd Members...

[Lark]

Huntleybrinkley wrote: "Poingu:
Mostly a lurker here and at the TOB but I am excited to see how this goes. Voted on your list and added The Mark and the Void by Paul Murray because who doesn't love a philosophical and sat..."

odd members are warmly welcomed here, after all is there not something odd these days about reading books at all?

Thanks for the novel nod, Huntleybrinkley, and we'll be sure to take a look.

[Jan]

Poingu wrote: "Huntleybrinkley wrote: "Poingu:
Mostly a lurker here and at the TOB but I am excited to see how this goes. Voted on your list and added The Mark and the Void by Paul Murray because who doesn't love..."

And I second the nomination. Two words: Skippy Dies!

[C]

I'm also a lurker to this alt.ToB and I'll also be a member of the peanut gallery. I have no idea how you guys read so much! With both ToBs it could be a possible 32 books depending on overlap! I feel like I have a long list TBR, short list TBR and short short within the month TBR so I'm not sure how many books I could commit to. I have a suggestion though: if this is happening next year, what about making it a few months after the official ToB so there definitely isn't overlap and also focusing on books that ToB followers thought should have been on the official ToB16 but weren't included? Or the alt.ToB could even start asap after the official ToB that way... including books that were missed from the first list. Hopefully the altToB isn't so awesome that The Morning News doesn't feel like doing the official ToB anymore?

[Lark]

C wrote: "I'm also a lurker to this alt.ToB and I'll also be a member of the peanut gallery. I have no idea how you guys read so much! With both ToBs it could be a possible 32 books depending on overlap! I f..."

Hi C. Yes, I wish we'd figured out a little sooner than 6 days ago how much potential fun we could have while waiting for TOB.

I love that you're already thinking of our Second Annual Alt.TOB. This year we're just going to have to muddle forth and learn from our mistakes. Kind of like Burning Man Year 1, maybe.

I'm hoping also that once we post our Round of 16 then things will immediately look much less daunting as you all start to dive in on reading them. I can't promise overlap because who knows what lurks in the heads of those Real TOB folk--Wittgenstein Jr.? Really?--but we do promise to do our best to make these diverse and diverting reads.

[C]

haha Burning Man Year 1. I see what you're saying! But I'm sure many people wouldn't mind seeing a list of 16 books after the official ToB like a "instead of Wittgenstein Jr THESE books should have been included" sort of list. Just an idea!

[Lark]

Hi everyone--if you want to be sure we do our best to assign you to books you haven't read yet (we can't promise this until we choose the books but we'll do our best) please send me a friend request so I can easily see if you've read a given book this year. Thank you!

[Drew]

AmberBug wrote: "Has one of my favorites The Barefoot Queen listed, and I haven't seen that one on any lists."

This is currently available for Kindle for $1.99, if anyone's curiosity is piqued!

[Drew]

Jan wrote: "Poingu wrote: "Huntleybrinkley wrote: "Poingu:
Mostly a lurker here and at the TOB but I am excited to see how this goes. Voted on your list and added The Mark and the Void by Paul Murray because w..."

I loved Skippy Dies! I've even been thinking about reading it again, something I rarely do. I'm all for trying Paul Murray's next outing.

[Lljones]

C wrote: "haha Burning Man Year 1. I see what you're saying! But I'm sure many people wouldn't mind seeing a list of 16 books after the official ToB like a "instead of Wittgenstein Jr THESE books should have..."

I'm with you, C. I love the idea of a post-TOB "shudda been a contender" thread.

[Rebecca]

Lljones wrote: "C wrote: "haha Burning Man Year 1. I see what you're saying! But I'm sure many people wouldn't mind seeing a list of 16 books after the official ToB like a "instead of Wittgenstein Jr THESE books s..."

I agree -- I like this idea too.

[[deleted user]]

I think anyone who follows the ToB would enjoy a "Shudda been a contender" alt. tourney. Let's give credit to Drew, who was the first to suggest it: Drew wrote,"...And if this works out, maybe we can try it ...with some favorites from the long list that didn't make the short." And Michele was the first to suggest a mid-year tourney, which I think is a great idea. I hope we will plan that type of event for next year.

Poingu and Jennifer, Please don't interpret the support for different ideas as a critique of the alt.ToB. I am so impressed with both of you for putting this all together and trying to take everyone's input into consideration.

[Rachel]

So, on the Google form, should our favorite book of 2015 be fiction from 2015 or can it be whatever we liked best that we read this year?

[Juniper]

Rachel wrote: "So, on the Google form, should our favorite book of 2015 be fiction from 2015 or can it be whatever we liked best that we read this year?"

Whichever you prefer. You can email me with any questions! :)
(In case people are confused, I sent out a survey to our judges earlier tonight, so not everyone will have received this.)

[Juniper]

Tina wrote: "Poingu and Jennifer, Please don't interpret the support for different ideas as a critique of the alt.ToB."

Oh, not at all!! No worries. It's great to hear the different ideas bandied about. Poingu and I have also touched on it in our off-group discussions. It is a learning curve this year, definitely. But I hope it goes really well and that we can develop ideas for 2016!

[Lark]

Tina wrote: "I think anyone who follows the ToB would enjoy a "Shudda been a contender" alt. tourney. Let's give credit to Drew, who was the first to suggest it: Drew wrote,"...And if this works out, maybe we c..."

Not at all--it's great to be part of such an energetic group. Let's also keep in mind that we're a creative anarchy here and anyone can go ahead and run with these ideas if they want to.

As for me I'm just thinking as far ahead as this year's little impromptu alt.TOB event and hoping we have fun together. But if I personally were to organize a second event, I'd want to do the same thing: organize a tournament of current-year books in advance of them being possible contenders in the following year's TOB. I really enjoy reading books that have just been published and it feels like I'll be a much more savvy TOB follower in 2016 after going through this alt.TOB with all of you.

One change I'd think about though is whether to start September, and shoot for being done with our event right about the time the TOB longlist came out in the first week of December, rather than what we're doing now, where we'll be done right around the beginning of February, and will have the most time for our reading in December before the short list is announced. In a couple of months we'll know if this is fun enough for everyone in the group to make it an annual event, and we'll also know a lot more about what worked and didn't work.

[Amy]

AmberBug wrote: "Jennifer wrote: "The IMPAC Dublin longlist (160 titles!!) went up today (though pub. dates are kind of all over the place, so not all 2015 titles): http://www.dublinliteraryaward.ie/new......"

looks like The Barefoot Queen is from 2014 as are several other titles on the Dublin list. they must have a wider range. I'm adding it to my TBR though!

[Drew]

Thanks, Jennifer and Poingu, for doing all this work for the group! I think it will be great fun.

[Lark]

Drew wrote: "Thanks, Jennifer and Poingu, for doing all this work for the group! I think it will be great fun."

I hope so! I'm certainly having fun so far. Among other things I've learned it's possible to read a book a day, once you decide on a few parameters like "short" and "discernible plot, trending toward page-turner." These factors may or may not be apparent in our final 16. The under-400-pages rule we set out in the beginning has already made this feel to Jennifer and me like a very different pool of books and I hope it will make for a different reading experience for everyone. Bye-bye, Little Life and Preparation for the Next Life and The Mare.

Jennifer and I haven't picked a single book for sure, and are in the midst right now of teeth-gnashing despair about how we ever will, but this too is fun in its own way. I've read a lot of great books in the last week that I may never have read at all. It's like an extremely compressed TOB experience all on its own.

[Juniper]

Carol wrote: "I'm not sure I can volunteer for anything since I'll be recovering from hip replacement, but I'll follow along, read as many of the books as I can get hold of, comment, etc."

hi carol!! i am so sorry, but i missed your comment and only came to it now, as i have been rereading this thread. very best of luck to you with your surgery!!! i hope that the alt-TOB will be a helpful distraction for you during your recovery!!! we will be very happy to have your participation and comments as you are able. thank you!

[Juniper]

Tina wrote: "Aha! You are a musician, but are you Merrittesque? Can we count on you to discount a novel and berate its author based on one aspect you don't like? How did you feel about An Untamed State and All the Light We Cannot See? : )"

haha!! i totally missed your reply too, tina! i am so sorry. such a busy thread this has been. :)

so... i am probably NOT merrittesque at all. haha. i was very taken by All the Light We Cannot See and loved the perspectives and experiences of war through they eyes of children. the gem bit of the story... wasn't the best part for me, but it was still a standout read. i still have not read An Untamed State as i never seem emotionally prepared enough to feel 'ready' to open it up. i do have a ton of respect for gay though, and follow all of her online writings, essays, and newspaper and magazine contributions.

so happy to hear you will be in the 'peanut gallery' - it's quite a distinguished crowd!! i can't wait to hear from you all as we go through the process. :)

[Lark]

...our longlist of contenders will be posted tomorrow!

;-)

[Julie]

Yea! Can't wait!! Moving all my TBR pile to the side.

[Juniper]

i love your enthusiasm for our longlist, julie! :)

[Kendra]

I'm so excited for the long list. Thanks so much Poingu and Jennifer.

[Karen Michele]

Oh, yay! I am also excited to see it. I'm curious to find out how many books I have read that you choose!

[Anne]

I'm late to the party but like so many others I love this idea and would like to express my thanks to those who have/are giving their time and energy to make it work.

I've been following the TOB for many years and consider it the highlight of my reading year. So this will be a nice filler as we wait for the exciting announcements of the 2016 TOB.

[Lark]

Hi Anne, welcome! We have just started reading so you're just in time. It's great you found us!

[Vanessa]

Hey! This is a great idea. Thanks to everyone who has put major effort in so far, or who plans to in the future :) Now I just have to figure out how to plug in to two TOBs during my busiest time of the year!

[Lark]

I'm glad you found us Vanessa.

Here's a link to the matchups.

We're reading the books together now with the hope of being done reading before January when the Tournament of Books shortlist is published. Then we'll publish our own judges' decisions day by day in January.