Science Fiction Microstory Contest discussion
Contest discussion
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Jot
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Oct 28, 2015 11:43AM
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Sounds good to me. Now that we have more room, it's more consistent to count words instead of characters.I just edited this post! I feel like the Joads when they find the government-run camp in Grapes of Wrath.
We should probably ask authors to write at the beginning or end of the story what the word count is.
At this site, from the University of Richmonds Writing Centre http://writing2.richmond.edu/writing/...the author describes flash fiction as ranging from about 150 words to 1000 words and says that,
"flash fiction, being so short, encompasses literary theory quite differently from traditional short stories given that the physical boundaries for flash fiction preclude otherwise available options. This is not to say flash fiction subscribes to a rigid formula - just the opposite. Forms of flash fiction tend to vary markedly, and resemble anything from prose poetry to grocery shopping lists. "Part of the fun of writing [flash fiction] is the sense of slipping through the seams," says Sudden Fiction author Stuart Dybek. "Within the constraint of of their small boundaries the writer discovers great freedom.""
My own interpretation of that - and my own feeling, anyway - is that the greatest possibility for discovering, exploring and developing ONE'S OWN flash fiction "literary theory" - and hence one's own style - is to set the word count at the outer limits of the flash fiction format: viz., 1000 words, as mentioned at the site above.
To do otherwise is to discriminate!
That is, its all relative, to one's writing style: 'small boundaries' to someone with a more 'flourishing style' can be 1000 words whereas to a writer with a naturally more 'economical style' it might be 750, or even less!
I'm more a thousand-worder! I don't agree with that school of thought that says, "the smaller the word count, IN ABSOLUTE TERMS, the more writing skill it takes to do it well."
I am of the school of thought that says, "no matter what your style - flourishing or economical - having to choose words well enough to fit into a 'small container' (RELATIVE TO your own WRITING STYLE) is the UNIVERSAL flash fiction challenge ... accommodating and encompassing flash fiction in ALL it gloriously different styles!
Hi, guys. Looks like this might be an interesting place to hang out. :)
Sounds ok to me. Hopefully my accounts will get straightened out. :)
*Hanging pictures in the new digs*Nice. I like this UI better.
-C. Lloyd Preville
Ps. and by the way, I am just now publishing my third novel, Burying the Axe, on Amazon Kindle. I'm so excited I can hardly breathe.
Breathe, Corey, breathe. Else, what happens by the time of novel 5?
Breathing is a requirement for participation here.Corey wrote: "*Hanging pictures in the new digs*
Nice. I like this UI better.
-C. Lloyd Preville
Ps. and by the way, I am just now publishing my third novel, Burying the Axe, on Amazon Kindle. I'm so excited..."
Hey, Corey:"Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again." (L. Frank Baum)
Is there a way for Goodreads to automatically post the word count in posts?
Not only did GR fix my problem with the old and new e-addresses, but the fellow who did it wrote a charming and sensible post re what he'd found and how he'd fixed it. So this place may be cool.
Is is appropriate that since November is the start of the new SF Microstory year the word count be altered now :) I am hoping that with a few more characters to spare, folks will properly space their stories. It is annoying to read a page of type without the breathing space of paragraph spaces just to get a few more words into the story.My 2 accounts aren't linked yet, but things seem ok for now.
I agree with the notion that we now have at our disposal the advantages that 'more breathing space' affords, because of the word count. It would therefore make sense to set the upper limit at'up to 1000 words', not 750. 'Up to 1000 words would open up to us the WHOLE storytelling potential of flash fiction's full story-length range ... so that we can do things like proper spacing, the better accommodation of different styles, and just experiment more.
well we can't use 750 on LI anyway ... and anyway we aren't on LI now so why not make use of what IS permitted here, while we are here? and see what it does to story quality. (There's always lots of comments about stories feeling prematurely cut off at the end of the story.)
and it wouldn't mean anyone who likes less words would HAVE to use up the entire 1000 word quota.
This looks spot on for the contest. 750 sounds fine to me. Seems like you can't join a group from the goodreads app, only from the website. Right. Memory. Artificial flowers. On it.
I have to agree with Heather, an increase in word count would be great, why not take advantage of the new platform with it's minimal restrictions? If you were clever, you could probably eke 750 words out of 4,000 characters so it doesn't seem like much of a change to me. In the articles I've read most folks consider anything over 1000 words a short story and anything under flash fiction. So while I probably wouldn't even use that many words, it would be nice to have the option if needed.
1000 words is too much like homework.
Marianne wrote: "1000 words is too much like homework."I laughed when I read that.
I'm good with whatever to be honest. Whatever the word count it's the challenge that makes this group so awesome. :)
How do you get italics to show up like that Jeremy? Also, has anyone found a 'like' button or equivalent?Marianne, I played truant too much to have ever got too bothered about doing homework, so 1000 words doesn't conjure up images of a scary teacher for me.
And I also am not 'overly' fussed about the exact word count, for the sake of, Carrie. It just would be nice to have that more flexible option to just be there ... to reconfigure/personalize "the challenge" - if one wants to - for maximum flexibility. eg (and this would just be one possibility) take your idea of collaboration. In that scenario, with 1000 words up your sleeve, one writer in a collaboration could take the first 500 words and the other the last 500 ... and submit it as a jointly authored submission, without it having an advantage of an effective over the limit word count (as it does) if the two collaborators just write a maximum sized story each. That would make the voting, for a collaboration, less complicated too.
But it wouldn't be just 'collaborative efforts' which would be the only form of 'writing initiative' that would be accommodated by using the fullest scope of this new platform we have found. It would also be a way of, in general, saying "this is a place where challenge and initiative and trying out new writing styles/formats/ etc is encouraged.
I remember J.J. commented, back on LI, about 'mealey mouthed' comments she'd seen on GR. Well, the more the scope for acceptance of INDIVIDUALITY is broadened (eg by embracing what GR offers re word count) the less danger there is of ever letting a 'mealey mouthed norm' set in.
The easiest way to get italics is to reply to somebody else's comment. It puts html tags around the italicized text, like so.
Smarty pants, J.F! hahaI looked up the html for font colour (color) but can't get it to appear here.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But on our issue
of word count freedom versus
not freedom: let's fly!
Between one to one
thousand words creative spirits
dip, soar, perch: at will.
You get the idea!
Flash Fiction's a discipline
not a rule: let's fly!
If you click on the phrase at the top right corner when you are creating your post, it will bring up the html code that is usable on GR.
ah! "(some html is ok)" Is that the phrase you mean, Sharon? Thanks, I'll check it out.
The point I am trying to make is not really about WORD COUNT at all. Its about "what is THE CULTURE we want to create in our new GR home/workspace?"
(Therefore, I probably shouldn't have mentioned right from the start of my arguments that I personally have a preference for longer word length stories, because the point I am making is NOT not about MY preferences at all. And I hope I might have demonstrated that, above, in showing that I ALSO like the haiku form ... and so now I am getting closer to the point of what I am trying to say.)
I'll use an analogy: 'dancing on the rock!' The rock is the flash fiction format. The dancer is our creativity. All the rocks in the area are surrounded by quicksand (the quicksand of sliding into an indefinateness between writing formats.)
For example, next to our rock, 'flash fiction', is another rock, called 'short story. So of course you don't want to dance off the edge and slide down in between!
But if out of 'habit' and 'too much formal education' some are drawn to/feel comfort in false discipline, then it becomes attractive to them to create a culture that replicates that familiarity ... and so such folk might say "yes, the real size of the flash fiction rock is less than 1000 words, but we're going to fence it off at 750, because that's what we're used to: the idea of restriction=discipline. Its a culture of false constraint we feel comfortable with."
Such people might be wonderful word-dancers within the 750 word boundary fence ... BUT, after a while some might notice that not having a dangerous edge to go to can foster a stullifying culture! (Its no use having a vote on it because 90% might want to fence off the rock at the 750 safe zone! It needs a strong executive decision - from Jot - to say "sure, even if only a few want to dance close to the edge of flash fiction's absolute boundaries, let them! We need the vitality of boundary pushers!"
Its the unsanctioned permission to go close to the edge (but only for those that want to dance at the edge!) which is the point, here.
Within such a writing culture, someone might write a flash fiction play! Someone(s) might set up a collaboration between, say, 5 writers doing 200 words each. Someone might do something no one else has thought of yet ... all because of having a culture that says, metaphorically, "you can (but only if you want to) push right to the challenging edges of flash fiction's truly-available boundaries!"
I am now identified as "J.F." because GR has linked my user profile to my author profile. That was pretty fast work on their part. Note that I did not write the books on engineering or parasite diagnosis in dogs and cats. I will try to make sure that is sorted out.
We are getting more and more people in this group. If even half the people add more and more words to their word counts, some people's stories--and likely they'll be the longer ones--just won't get read by all the participants. Think about it. And does anyone really want reading his/her story to seem to others like homework? The longer stories will if they eat up all of people's time.
Also, at least half the stories we do here could use some editing and rephrasing to cut their word count, just as much or more than they could use extra words. "Less is more" can go too far, but there's a reason the phrase is used often about people's fiction.
Regarding word count: I do think less is more, and I can live with 750. It forces you to compress your idea to its most efficient form of expression. How people do that is interesting. Some go all dialogue; some favor first person; some try experimental approaches, like Carrie & Dean. I do think shorter form really solidifies the idea of show, not tell. In 750 words you cannot give people a full galactic meal, but you can give them a knockout taste and leave them wanting more :)
I think I'm most excited about being able to put paragraph spaces and a title/copyright without having to butcher a paragraph midway to make it all fit!
Carrie: Word!Not for anything, but lack of paragraph spacing on LI in some submissions drove me quite insane because it was very hard on the eyes.
I'm just waiting for people to use things like font colors in their stories.
Jot wrote: "Opening a discussion for the contest. The only rule change is to limit the stories to 750 words. That might be larger than the 4000 character limit, but not much and seems to be the normal flash fi..."Give It a go.
We have an opportunity now to SYMBOLIZE whether or not our brand new Welcome Mat will say "We welcome the entire bell curve of creative writing possibilities, within our chosen discipline of Science Fiction Flash Fiction." The words "one" and "one thousand' (of a lower and upper limit, respectively, on word counts) are SYMBOLS! They symbolize the extremes of that bell curve. They would symbolize that we welcome ANY 'extreme interpretation' (as well as more conservative interpretations) of what the discipline of Flash Fiction is all about.
NOW is the only time when it is realistically feasible to put this idea forward, when we are first setting up in this new platform. (There's enough oblique objections to it now. Nobody seems to want to discuss the nature of our group's writing culture and its symbols - which symbols are powerful communicators, of who we are, to potential new group members. It certainly won't become more possible to put the idea forward later, once the old familiar ways are well and truly cozied in!)
It is silly to say "oh the next thing people will want to use coloured text (you can't anyway at GR) ... " or "everyone will want to write a thousand words!" (No they won't, if bell curve statistics are to be believed! Most people WILL write somewhere in the middle of the available extremes.) ... or "give 750 a go!" (The issue I am trying to raise is not about the merits of one spot on the bell curve, and 750 is just one spot, because if you research what defines flash fiction it is that 'up to one thousand words' is the discipline's defining upper word limit.) ... or "less is more" (because nothing in what I am saying is disputing that. I am equally arguing the merits of a LOWER word limit of 'one word.' It would be wonderful if some new participant came along who could work the magic - with just one word or one sentence - of being able to capture both theme and element with absolute succinctness.
And I am equally not confining the symbolism of the word count to just word count. 'Word count' is just a way of symbolizing 'the welcoming of ANYTHING that some extremely creative minds out there might be able to express within the discipline that is S/F Flash Fiction: be it word count extreme or style extreme or the extreme of some experimental mixing of genres or formats (that works well).
"Do we want to (also) attract 'experimental thinkers' to our group (besides of course, non-experimental thinkers)? That's the question I'm asking. If we do want to do that then we need to change the symbols on our Welcome Mat ... to ones that indicate that "Here is a (S/F Flash Fiction) Writing Culture that Welcomes its Full Gamut!"
p.s. Ben,the entirety of what Jot wrote on the matter was actually:
"Opening a discussion for the contest. The only rule change is to limit the stories to 750 words. That might be larger than the 4000 character limit, but not much and seems to be the normal flash fiction contest size. What do you guys think?"
(The only reason I might 'seem' to be hitting some over the head with my 'think', is, that no one is answering what I am actually saying ... but instead are using a 'straw-man argument' - where a pseudo representation of what I have said is assumed to be what I have said and then that 'pseudo' is argued against, as if it were the position I had put forward!!!)
Heather, if people want to go with 750 words as the limit, why insist on 1000? Frankly, most places until the past couple years considered anything under 2000 words a "short-short story" or even "flash fiction"; why not suggest a 2000 words limit? The same "freedom" and "welcoming" arguments can go for that. Or for 200 words (another oft-found flash fiction limit), ftm. And each limit provides a very different sort of writing experience--why not try the 750 words for awhile and see how that goes? At least we know that we may have TIME to write our entries and read all the entries, at that length, even those of us swamped with work. I hope this answer is direct enough. As for the general issue of welcoming experimental sf, literary sf, complexly written sf, etc.--I agree with you; some here do, some don't.
What's the lower limit on the word count? Does anybody know? Is there one? Paula I'm not 'insisting', I'm 'putting forward' - an idea about (the symbolism of the writing culture we want to participate in and project: integral within the word count limits we use. I think you are the first person here to have actually addressed, somewhat directly, that actual issue I put forward, so thanks at least for that.
The reason I wanted to put that idea forward at this time is because now is a time of change for this group: to a new platform - that permits greater upper word limits than we've been used to. It might therefore have been a reasonable time for introspection about our writing culture and its symbolism, as I have suggested. But its looking like (the short answer) "no to that!" 'wins'.
Sorry to be so cryptic. Here is what I think. "Give It a go!" :-)
I think the "what do you guys think?" has been answered: 750 words
No low limit to words. You took my credit card, but I've your house keys and no credit. Call me, your number. Can you say 'picked a pickpocket's pocket' very fast?
'packed off a poker-faced picketer picking paint off picket fences' ... at least that's what it sounds like at 750 words per second. Very fast, ie 1000 words/sec, not permitted I'm afraid! So you'll just have to live in puzzlement at what might have been. [a fast little :-) is some cryptic consolation though, I'm sure.]I took your credit card looking for credi(bili)t(y), but found it had none left on it. My number is pi http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/~huberty/mat... (in the sky) so you call me.
p.s. my house is always open to all creatures zipping past in various parallel realities: so there's simply no keys needed! :-) whoosh... :-} whoosh...:-} whoosh... (They smile a lot as they fly by.)
