Net Work Book Club discussion
An Aspiring Writer Who Needs Help (Structural Issue).
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As an author myself, I think that you can do whatever you want - that's my opinion :)
Thanks so much, Emma!
You just might be right about that as I have heard a few well-established--even famous authors say that when it comes to writing that, "There are no rules."
I am going about publishing the old-fashioned way (by first seeking out a literary agent and then a publisher). Thus, I feel more liable to be judged outright by how my work looks and whether or not it is accepted because of that. But I have also chosen to put myself into this position before I consider self-publishing.
You just might be right about that as I have heard a few well-established--even famous authors say that when it comes to writing that, "There are no rules."
I am going about publishing the old-fashioned way (by first seeking out a literary agent and then a publisher). Thus, I feel more liable to be judged outright by how my work looks and whether or not it is accepted because of that. But I have also chosen to put myself into this position before I consider self-publishing.
Hi Star,
Your example reads fine to me. I combined narrative and dialogue together a number of times in my novel Runaway Joe. There are times when nothing else will fit. Write from the heart and make sure what you write flows well, the words should carry you along. A trick I would use to satisfy myself that I was moving in the right direction was this, I would go to the book section at a store and pick up a book. Opening it to a random page, I would start to read. Nine out of ten books I picked up were an effort to read, with no flow and poor continuity.
Go for flow, continuity, balance and timing. But above all else, go for what sounds good to you. Somewhere along the line, someone decided there should be rules for literature. Why, why should there berules for artistic expression? There's only one rule if you want to write well, connect with your audience, speak to them from the center of your being.
Think of writers as vocalists, do you want to live in a world we we only have voices that are perfect, be it soprano, alto, tenor or bass? Or do you want to live in a world full of soul? Find your own voice. By the way, my voice didn't really start coming into it's own until the latter stages of penning my novel, and is still fine tuning itself. Enjoy! It's all good!
Your example reads fine to me. I combined narrative and dialogue together a number of times in my novel Runaway Joe. There are times when nothing else will fit. Write from the heart and make sure what you write flows well, the words should carry you along. A trick I would use to satisfy myself that I was moving in the right direction was this, I would go to the book section at a store and pick up a book. Opening it to a random page, I would start to read. Nine out of ten books I picked up were an effort to read, with no flow and poor continuity.
Go for flow, continuity, balance and timing. But above all else, go for what sounds good to you. Somewhere along the line, someone decided there should be rules for literature. Why, why should there berules for artistic expression? There's only one rule if you want to write well, connect with your audience, speak to them from the center of your being.
Think of writers as vocalists, do you want to live in a world we we only have voices that are perfect, be it soprano, alto, tenor or bass? Or do you want to live in a world full of soul? Find your own voice. By the way, my voice didn't really start coming into it's own until the latter stages of penning my novel, and is still fine tuning itself. Enjoy! It's all good!
Going through agents and publishers was a valuable experience for me, I started with the big agents in New York. The first order is that you must have a properly fomatted query letter, a one sentence "hook", a paragraph for the blurb, then a paragraph of bio. About 20 percent of the agents I queried responded, usually it takes a few weeks, often a few months. Most agents don't read past the hook if it doesn't grab them. Of the agents I did hook, they all said basically the same thing, wonderful premise, but there's no market for what you've written.
It's all market driven, If your novel doesn't fit neatly into a little box it's not going anywhere, they're not looking for new and different. If you do land an agent, from what I hear, it takes them 9 to 18 months to work with you on editing and plug it to a publisher. If they land you a publisher, it will be another 9 to 18 months while the publisher edits your work, here's the kicker, you sign prior to editing. Your work is now theirs to do with as they see fit. They design the cover and everything.
Runaway Joe was actually under review by a small, but successful indie publisher, it took four months for them just to seriously consider my manuscript. They were slow in answering an e-mail, so I called them. I reached an answering machine instead of a person, so I told them(the machine) to forget the whole deal.
Now I'mself published, I'm fighting for recognition amongst a sea of literally millions of other novels, but what I'm plugging is all me. The cover design, formatting and every single word is mine.
I'm just relating my experiences, being published by a big house is a great gig if you can get it, but self publishing is cool too. I'm just in the beginning stages of marketing my novel, and am only trying things that don't cost me money, other than making a gift of a copy now and then. From what I've seen of others that were in the same position, you spend a lot of time slogging through the muck, while in the dark, until you stumble into somebody that can "see" you. They tell their friends, and they tell their friends, until you land in the right circle. Then, it's boom!!! You're a huge "overnight" success.
It's all market driven, If your novel doesn't fit neatly into a little box it's not going anywhere, they're not looking for new and different. If you do land an agent, from what I hear, it takes them 9 to 18 months to work with you on editing and plug it to a publisher. If they land you a publisher, it will be another 9 to 18 months while the publisher edits your work, here's the kicker, you sign prior to editing. Your work is now theirs to do with as they see fit. They design the cover and everything.
Runaway Joe was actually under review by a small, but successful indie publisher, it took four months for them just to seriously consider my manuscript. They were slow in answering an e-mail, so I called them. I reached an answering machine instead of a person, so I told them(the machine) to forget the whole deal.
Now I'mself published, I'm fighting for recognition amongst a sea of literally millions of other novels, but what I'm plugging is all me. The cover design, formatting and every single word is mine.
I'm just relating my experiences, being published by a big house is a great gig if you can get it, but self publishing is cool too. I'm just in the beginning stages of marketing my novel, and am only trying things that don't cost me money, other than making a gift of a copy now and then. From what I've seen of others that were in the same position, you spend a lot of time slogging through the muck, while in the dark, until you stumble into somebody that can "see" you. They tell their friends, and they tell their friends, until you land in the right circle. Then, it's boom!!! You're a huge "overnight" success.
In your second Muppet example, I'd probably break up the second paragraph into several shorter paragraphs, so it might read:Miss Piggy felt so adored by her dear 'Kermie' having gone to such an extent to impress her, that she said: "Oh Kermie! You must really love me!"
Kermit said, "I do love you, my sweet!"
They then kissed while standing upon the terrace as the ships sailed past on their journeys to Spain, Italy, Portugal and other worlds beyond them.
I don't really like the punctuation, either, but as you mentioned, this is an improvised example.
There's your answer Star, I feel the second paragraph is much more comfortable to read as a single paragraph, while Andrew feels it should be broken up. We're all different, write what feels right to you. If you find what you've written pleasurable to read, others will also find it so. Maybe not everybody, as it's impossible to write in a manner that everybody will find appealing.
I'm not an author FSP, but reading through the advice above - it sounds good to me! I've read Dave's "Runaway Joe" and really enjoyed it. Best of luck with your book.
T4bsF wrote: "I'm not an author FSP, but reading through the advice above - it sounds good to me! I've read Dave's "Runaway Joe" and really enjoyed it. Best of luck with your book."
Thanks, Flo, you and the other good people of this group, allowed me to take the step from self-published author, to writer.
Thanks, Flo, you and the other good people of this group, allowed me to take the step from self-published author, to writer.
Sorry this is a bit belated, but thank you so much for the responses.
Actually, I decided to have copies of manuscripts for each my novel and my novella in both'styles'--then I will decide what to do in the end.
I have already 're-did' my novella as it stands thus far, in the fashion Andrew recommends and it did not take long at all to do (about an hour--if that)! My novel, while longer in length of course than my novella, may take a little longer to 'style' in this way but it should not be any more taxing a job apart from that.
I think I prefer Andrew's way--well, I do once my work might make it to book format and there are not all of those white spaces in-between the sections.
Dave, thanks for the thorough responses and the advice at length; you do seem to know the writer's world! I may look to self-publishing in the end too once I have tried it the 'old-fashioned' way. I agreed with much of what you said--especially the following:
Go for flow, continuity, balance and timing. But above all else, go for what sounds good to you. Somewhere along the line, someone decided there should be rules for literature. Why, why should there berules for artistic expression? There's only one rule if you want to write well, connect with your audience, speak to them from the center of your being.
Think of writers as vocalists, do you want to live in a world we we only have voices that are perfect, be it soprano, alto, tenor or bass? Or do you want to live in a world full of soul? Find your own voice. By the way, my voice didn't really start coming into it's own until the latter stages of penning my novel, and is still fine tuning itself. Enjoy! It's all good!
Amen to every word of that!
Also, congratulations on publishing your book, "Runaway Joe"! I will just have to read it now. ;)
Again, thanks to all of you for helping me as I genuinely appreciate it.
Best wishes to everyone!
Actually, I decided to have copies of manuscripts for each my novel and my novella in both'styles'--then I will decide what to do in the end.
I have already 're-did' my novella as it stands thus far, in the fashion Andrew recommends and it did not take long at all to do (about an hour--if that)! My novel, while longer in length of course than my novella, may take a little longer to 'style' in this way but it should not be any more taxing a job apart from that.
I think I prefer Andrew's way--well, I do once my work might make it to book format and there are not all of those white spaces in-between the sections.
Dave, thanks for the thorough responses and the advice at length; you do seem to know the writer's world! I may look to self-publishing in the end too once I have tried it the 'old-fashioned' way. I agreed with much of what you said--especially the following:
Go for flow, continuity, balance and timing. But above all else, go for what sounds good to you. Somewhere along the line, someone decided there should be rules for literature. Why, why should there berules for artistic expression? There's only one rule if you want to write well, connect with your audience, speak to them from the center of your being.
Think of writers as vocalists, do you want to live in a world we we only have voices that are perfect, be it soprano, alto, tenor or bass? Or do you want to live in a world full of soul? Find your own voice. By the way, my voice didn't really start coming into it's own until the latter stages of penning my novel, and is still fine tuning itself. Enjoy! It's all good!
Amen to every word of that!
Also, congratulations on publishing your book, "Runaway Joe"! I will just have to read it now. ;)
Again, thanks to all of you for helping me as I genuinely appreciate it.
Best wishes to everyone!
Best of luck with your writing, Fallen Star Poet!
Rather than search through so many other groups here at "Goodreads" (I am tired and frustrated) I thought I would seek the advice of some of the more established writers here who have published works. (Note: If you help me, I will adore you forever!)
I am having an issue with dialogue and paragraphing. Over time, I have really honed my craft but am not sure what to do here. I am a little embarrassed by this though, in my defense, I was more of a poet before I took to prose.
Resources online conflict as to what is proper regarding my plight (no surprise there).
I have looked at what some of my favorite authors have done and I think I am in quite the muddle if I go by what their examples!
But it is better to find all this out at 50,000 words (the length of my novel at present) than at 100,000 words, yes?
Between my novel and novella, that will be over 120 pages of manuscript to comb through in a kind of "Sisyphus" mode because I have done a good deal of editing and polishing already! I don't know how many times I have read over and edited the both of them and I don't want to know at this point (my head is already spinning).
I am a bit particular about not posting any of my unpublished, in-progress, self-assigned work online. So I won't give an example there and am too tired (there is that word again, 'tired'. I need sleep and soon!)to make up something here.
I guess what I am asking is the following:
Is it acceptable for dialogue between two characters to be amid paragraphs where there is much narrative? I have a lot of narrative, but there is also a healthy amount of dialogue as well.
Is it then line by line--one above the other--when there is little narrative, but direct one-on-one chatter between the characters?
Alright, fine! A silly, improvised example follows:
"You're beautiful," said Kermit the Frog.
"Who? Moi? I already know that, Kermie, but thank you," replied Miss Piggy.
;) ;) ;)
But if I was to write narrative for this endearing couple and also have them chatting in the meanwhile:
It was a most fine suite which Kermit had booked. The room was elegant with antique furnishings of mahogany and fabrics of silk and brocade. French windows opened onto a marble terrace overlooking the blue of the Mediterranean sea.
Miss Piggy felt so adored by her dear 'Kermie' having gone to such an extent to impress her, that she said: "Oh Kermie! You must really love me!" Kermit said, "I do love you, my sweet!" They then kissed while standing upon the terrace as the ships sailed past on their journeys to Spain, Italy, Portugal and other worlds beyond them.
:)
I hope I made the issue I am having clear enough. I also hope that it is alright by group guidelines my having posted these questions here.
And why, "The Muppets"? We just watched their latest film together as a family--that is why! ;)Plus, well, they are, "The Muppets". ;)
Thanks again for any assistance and advice. I appreciate it more than you will you ever know.
~Star~