A Song of Ice and Fire - A Chapter a day discussion
This topic is about
A Clash of Kings
A Clash of Kings
>
10/05/15 – Chapter 6: Jon I
date
newest »
newest »
Your point 2, I know right?!? I guess Jon is that typical man who doesn't find reading as fun as real world experiences. Meh. Your point 8, I wondered about that, how long specifically Jon has been there. He makes it sound like he's been there a long time when in reality he's still a spring chicken compared to most of them!
1. I like that Jon is described as a shadow among shadows. :) So far my feelings on talk of shadows is a bad thing, but I think the Starks make an exception.
2. Maester Aemon had sent Sam to look for some maps of the north beyond the Wall for the Lord Commander before they are to head out. I wonder why they don't already have one? Poor sweet Sam has been up all night reading, sounds like me!, losing himself in the ancient books he loves so much. :) He obviously treasures history. He talks passionately of his findings and Jon politely has to bring him back to the present, to talk more of their journeys they're about to make pretty soon. However, Sam is not looking forward to going -- too craven.
3. Jon doesn't see the point in keeping many of these books and scrolls, especially ones about an inventory of food they had 600 years ago, but Sam has a point -- with that information he can tell just how many men of the Night's Watch lived here at that time and how they lived. Sam calls it treasure, but Jon thinks of gold, silver, and jewels as treasure, not dust, spiders, and rotting leather, lol. I think Sam's right, though. It's important to see how the Night's Watch lived back then. It's important not to forget your roots.
4. Didn't know Sam was older than Jon. I wonder how much older? A year?
5. Sam says there are works in this library that aren't found in the Citadel in Oldtown, but I wonder how Sam would know that?
6. I like how Jon reminds Sam the books will still be here when they return. Poor Sam is afraid they might not return. After all, many who rode out are either missing, dead, or undead. Jon reassures him they'll be fine. They're going out with 200 seasoned men. They know what they're doing. He promises he'll be as safe as when he was living at his father's castle, but poor Sam reminds him he was never safe there either. :( "The gods play cruel jests," Jon thinks. Awe.
7. It's ironic that Sam, who's craven, has to go but Pyp and Toad who really wanted to go must stay behind. Jon's doing his best to make Sam feel comfortable about going. Sam has to go because of the ravens in Maester Aemon's stead.
8. Jon still has dreams of dead Othor, with his burning blue eyes. I'm sure that's not something he can easily forget. I wonder if he still dreams of Winterfell's crypts?
9. Jon tells Sam that his father says there's no shame in being afraid, only what matters is how you face it. :)
10. I forgot about the "wormwalks" under Castle Black. I wonder if there are wormwalks under the other 18 castles along the Wall? Sounds like much of Castle Black is underground. Makes sense, to keep out of the cold, like Mole's Town. They don't use them in summer, but in winter it's absolutely necessary.
11. Snow drifts of 40-50 feet!?! I'm from a snowy region by the Great Lakes and it can get above 6 feet and higher, but 40 feet is insane!
12. Even Jon thinks of Ghost when he sees the white raven, so it's not just me! They are also white and silent.
13. I like to imagine what Jon was like when he was young. He remembers the last winter from when he was very young -- everyone agreed it was short and mild. This time he can tell this winter will be different. I think he was born in that mild winter, too, right?
14. The Wall almost seems a living thing to Jon, with its own moods. Changing colors against the light, depending where you look at it. Sounds dazzling.
15. The black brothers dubbed the red comet "Mormont's Torch," sent from the gods to light the old man's way through the haunted forest. Sam remarks it's so bright you can see it by day now. Impressive!
16. I'm surprised how common and mundane it is for rangers to be at Mole's Town's brothel. Maybe it's only because he's 15, but I like that Jon doesn't go with them. I suspect it's mostly because he doesn't want to make more bastards, but he also upholds his vows, which is apparently uncommon for most men to turn down a whore.
17. I like this: "Some men want whores on the eve of battle, and some want gods. Jon wondered who felt better afterward." Ha! He thinks about the sept and would rather keep his gods that dwell in the wild. "The Seven have no power beyond the Wall, he thought, but my gods will be waiting." Funny, since the old gods have no power in the south, according to Osha! I thought he wasn't very religious, anyways. Perhaps he took solace in his father's gods more now that his father is dead. Perhaps he feels closer to his father with the old gods.
18. Ser Endrew Tarth is gentler than Ser Alliser Thorne, but he's still giving the new recruits bruises. Jon seems entranced by the swordplay. I think he would enjoy being a man-at-arms, since he enjoys teaching men how to fight. One of the recruits was a boy whore, wow, lol. He's in the right place...
19. Donal Noye talks to Jon about Robb being King in the North now. Interesting Jon's not certain how he feels about Robb being a king. It's still hard for him to imagine; they've grown up together, and I think I can hear a little bit of resentment. But Jon loyally tells Donal that Robb will make a good king, as if saying it out loud will make him believe it. I wonder why he's unsure of it? Donal seems to call Jon out on that one. "I hope that's so, boy, but once I might have said the same of Robert." Interesting.
20. Donal Noye smithed for the Baratheons, made Robert's warhammer, the very one that killed Rhaegar Targaryen. He boasts he knew Lord Steffon well, and the three boys. He says Robert was never the same once he became king, so perhaps he really did love Lyanna. He won the crown but lost the girl. Donal says Robert was true steel, Stannis pure iron -- black, hard, and strong, but also brittle. "He'll break before he bends." Ha! And Donal calls Renly copper; brightand shiny, pretty to look at, but not worth much. Donal seems a good judge of character! Jon wonders what metal Robb is but is too afraid to ask, afraid Donal doesn't approve of traitors trying to steal Joffrey's throne. I doubt that, but Jon's young.
21. Mormont's raven looks at Jon and shrieks "Snow!" Smart bird!
22. Thoren Smallwood fancies himself First Ranger now that Ser Jaremy is dead. He's one of Ser Alliser's henchmen, and he doesn't seem pleased Mormont wants to travel up north. He feels the Lord Commander should stay at Castle Black, "lording and commanding." lol. I'm glad Mormont puts him in his place, saying until they know for certain Ben Stark is dead he is still First Ranger. I don't like this Thoren.
23. Once Thoren is dismissed Mormont says he'd sooner name Sam First Ranger before he names that title to him! I laughed when Mormont intimidates Sam, demanding to know if he thinks he's too old to ride north, lol.
24. It's smart of Mormont to want to bring ravens along. If they are slaughtered, maybe they can send messages back to the Wall of how and where they died. That's Sam's job. However, Sam is horrified at the word "butcher." Mormont asks Jon if Sam's as big a fool as he seems, lol, awe.
25. I forgot Mormont wants someone to speak with Renly about their predicament at the Wall as well. Interesting that Mormont says: "The Night's Watch is not proud, we take what is offered." *SPOILER FOR DANCE WITH DRAGONS* (view spoiler)
26. "House Lannister has never been a friend to the Watch." Interesting. All except Tyrion!
27. I like that Mormont remembers to ask Jon how his hand is doing. His hand sounds horribly burned! Scars halfway up his elbow, with mottled pink flesh to keep it tight together. I'll bet it's very sensitive. So I'm right; it itches. Maester Aemon was the one who instructs Jon to flex his hand. He simply continues doing it long after it's healed out of habit, a characteristic trademark I like a lot about him. :)
28. Mormont tells Jon that Maester Aemon could have been king but he gave it up to be a maester. His brother, King Aegon the 5th, the Unlikely, was his younger brother. This surprises Jon. I would have thought he'd have had a history lesson on this, back at Winterfell... Mormont explains why he is called "Unlikely." The 4th son of a 4th son of the king. Very small chances at being king. Oh, I thought Maester Aemon went to the Citadel of his own doing, but here Mormont says his grandfather the king sent him to the Citadel because he was not martial at all. That kind of reminds me of Sam Tarly. He was only 8 when he left. Lol, Jon has a hard time imagining Maester Aemon that age. :)
29. Mormont says one of Aemon's older brothers was Aerion, aka Aerion Brightflame, because he thought he was a dragon. He drank a jar of wildfire, lol, wtf. He really thought it would transform him into a dragon. All it did was transform him into a corpse. Obviously some of the Targaryens are mentally instable.
30. I didn't get to this part in The World of Ice and Fire yet, but I'm getting there! They also discuss the year of the Great Council, where, after all other heirs died, they quietly offered the crown to Aemon, choosing to skip Aerion's infant son, but he refused. He said he's a maester now; the gods meant for him to serve, not rule. *SPECULATION ON JON SNOW* (view spoiler) Maester Aemon came to join the Wall so that no one might try to conspire to get him on the throne instead of his little brother, interesting. I wonder why Mormont's bringing this up.
31. Mormont's raven squawks "King!" several times this chapter. OMG! This scene!
"He likes that word," Jon said, smiling.
"An easy word to say. An easy word to like."
"King," the bird said again.
"I think he means for you to have a crown, my lord."
"The realm has three kings already, and that's two too many for my liking." Mormont stroked the raven under the beak with a finger, but all the while his eyes never left Jon Snow,.
It made him feel odd.
--VERY interesting!
32. Good question, Mormont! Why did you tell Jon about Maester Aemon? Mormont asks if he has to have a reason. Both of them have/had brothers that are kings. Jon adds they also have vows. :( Mormont snorts and reminds him how many times the men on the Wall break their vows all the time. *SPOILER FOR A STORM OF SWORDS* (view spoiler)
33. OMG! I love everything Mormont says on this last page! He tells Jon some hard truths -- Robb will get all the glory being king and Jon will be a miserable shadow on the Wall, basically, in a nutshell. Mormont says to tell him that doesn't bother him. Jon: "And if it did trouble me, what might I do, bastard as I am?" Mormont asks what will he do? Jon answers: "Be troubled, and keep my vows."
ran out of space!
34. This chapter is chock full of intriguing stuff! Here we learn Jon is getting increasingly "jealous" of Robb, but he tries to make the most out of what he has. I think George Martin is showing us two sides of a coin in this chapter. The glory of being king, and the veiled hero who gets no praise but is the reason the realm still exists. I'm still not entirely sure what it is about Robb Jon is jealous of. Is it his birthright? His status? That he'll have a wife and kids and everyone will love him? Praise? What did Jon join the Night's Watch specifically for? Glory? Recognition? The satisfaction of protecting the realm? Does he seek to be a hero, still, as he did as a boy? It kind of reminds me of the Prince and the Pauper theme, where Jon is a prince in disguise and Robb is a pauper who looks like a prince, or king, in this case. And what's up with Mormont's raven blatantly repeating "king!" many times over, his eyes never leaving Jon??? That, so far, sounds like one of the biggest hints George Martin dropped for us. That maybe, just maybe, Jon is meant to be king one day. I don't know...it sounds too good to be true, and George Martin always has to add the bitter with the sweet. Jon Snow is my favorite character in this series, but that doesn't mean I therefore demand he become the ultimate hero who saves the world and gets the girl and rules the realm with a happily ever after. That's too unrealistic. I just don't know what to expect, but I sure hope George Martin is kind to Jon for whatever he has in store for him.
Yeah! I guess a year past in the first book, or maybe a little less. But I found it funny he said that, it's not like he's been there 20 years.I don't know how much older San is, but I think it's mention at some point. For some reason I think at some point it's mention he's 19, but I could be wrong.
About your poin 13, I think he was.
2-He went to look Sam who is in the library searching for maps. The description of the library was beautiful, even if it’s a mess. Jon told Sam the library in Winterfell had more tan a hundred books (it seems I have more books that Winterfell’s library!). What Sam told him was really interesting, about Redwyne writing about the giants and the children, in the times of King Dorren Stark. I wonder how long ago that was, and how can Jon not be interesting in it?
3-The way Sam treats books reminded me of the way I treat them. Is really nice to read a carácter that loves books as much as you do. And Sam says they have books there that the Citadel doesn’t have! I wonder how he knows that.
4-Pyp and Toad won’t go beyond the Wall, but Sam is. I guess because he is one of the few who can read and write, and it’s written Maester Aemon is too old to go, which is true. He has to take care of the raves. Of course Sam does not want to go, he’s not the most brave man in the Watch, and I can’t imagine how scary it must be, for him and for all of them. Jon tells him all of them are scared, and would be fools if they weren’t.
5-I forgot about the wormwalks. I guess it’s a way to not freeze to death.
6-The White raven went to the Wall as well, so now they know Winter is coming. Jon knew Winter once, but everyone told him it was a brief and gente one. He can feel in his bones this one won’t. It must be a really strong thing that he feels it that way.
7-Lol at Mormont’s torch. Even though they said it as half a joke, the brothers do have a sense of humor. Most of the brothers are in the brothel because they don’t know when they’ll be able to get laid again, or id they’ll live to do it again. “Sam was almost as frightened of whores as he was of the haunted forest.” Lol! And Jon did not want to go because he took a bow, which he takes very seriously.
8-Ser Endrew Tarth took Allister’s place and now trains the boys, and he’s gentler. Does Ser Endrew have something to do with Brienne? Also lol at Jon talking like a brother now: “They smell of summer”. I like it though, but he’s been there only a year.
9-Now he knows Robb is a King, and he said loyally he’ll be a good one. I also tend to take very seriously they don’t take part in the politics of the realm, but just like Donal Noye, some must have want a King or the other. It was really interesting what Noye said about the Baratheons, the personality of each one, and how Robert changes when he put that Crown in his head: “Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.”
10-Donal seems like a really cool guy, and Jon thinks of him as a friend. I really like him. He tells Jon to bring Benen back, and Jon promised he will.
11-Smallwood went to tell Mormont he’s too old to go and lead a group of people beyond the Wall, and the Lord Commander does not like it at all. Smallwood thinks he should be the líder, and Jeor told him no, Benjen is the First Ranger. I wonder if he would have said so if it was other the man that went missing.
12-He tells Sam the maps are old, but Jon says the rivers will be in the same place. And something makes me think they haven’t upload those maps in a while. Mormont told Sam he wants the best ravens. He plans to sent Word of what will go on to Maester Aemon. He really trust the Maester and can tell how much the man can sense.
13-So, the Lord Commander plans to ask Realy for men an weapons now that he’s King. Also, lord Tarly, Sam’s father sits high in his counsil.
14-The hand in the jar Ser Allister took to King’s Landing “twitched and stirred in its jar as if it were still alive.” How awful and scary!
15-I forgot Mormont is the first to mention the rumor about his sister fucking a bear. Like wtf, who thought of that? He says: “A man must believe his eyes.” If he thinks so, how can he expect the people in the realm to believe the stories about the Others? Even if Allister has the hand, I don’t think they would believe him.
16-It seems Jon has some nasty scars in his arm halfway to the elbow, a lot of skin was touch by the fire! But he seems better, so that’s good.
17-Mormont told a little more about Maester Aemon, and a lot I didn’t remember. He could have been King! And he said no! He wasn’t even near to be heir, but a lot of Targaryens died. And he is mroe tan 100 years old, which is crazy for that time, and also for ours. The story of Aerion the Monstruos shows that some Targaryens are plain crazy. Drink wildfire? Wtf? Aemon refused, saying he took a bow, but the High Septon said he could absolve Aemon himself, which I am guessing is not usual at all. Maester Aemon ended up in the Wall so no one would turn to him if they didn’t like the King that was ruling. He must really love being a Maester to turn down being a King in a world people fight to be King. But I don’t think anyone can be King.
18-Jon wonders why Mormont told him the story. After he finished, he was pretty raw comparing Robb and Jon, even though all he said was true. It clearly upsets Jon a Little, like it would upset anyone. I think Mormont is not totally sure about Jon’s loyalty after he tried to flee, and he’s putting him to the test. Jon answers he and Maester Aemon have a common a brother King, and a bow.
19-I think Jon answered correctly, not denying the fact he is pissed about Robb and how everyone will adore him and sing about him, while he’ll have no songs. He will be troubled about it, and he’ll keep his vows. At this point I think it’s clear he takes the words he said very seriously.