Tudor History Lovers discussion
Thoughts on Edward VI?
message 1:
by
Jennifer, Mod #5
(new)
Jul 15, 2009 05:46AM
I've recently been reading about Edward VI, someone I really haven't ever read much about. I find it fascinating that a child, by today's standards anyway, seemed to be so grown up and active in his kingship. Just wondering if anyone has any theories on what sort of king Edward would have been had he lived? What do you think of him? Like him? Dislike him? Don't really care either way? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
reply
|
flag
I haven't read much about him either but I don't find it hard to believe he could have been "grown up" for his age. Edward had a huge weight on his shoulders from conception on. All I have heard about the boy king is that his advisors pretty much ran the show, what is it they say he died from? Consumption?
Yes, consumption, tuberculosis and a bit of arsenic poisoning thrown in, apparently. From what I've just finished reading, Edward's Lord Protector at the time of this death was the Duke of Northumberland, who was Robert Dudley's father. He overthrew Edward's uncle, Lord Somerset (Edward Seymour - Jane Seymour's brother) and took total control of the ruling. Northumberland convinced Edward to change the line of succession set forth in Henry VIII's will to skip over Mary, Elizabeth and Frances Brandon (Henry's niece by his sister Mary), which was illegal and traitorous to defy. However, Northumberland had so much power that the other advisors felt that they could not go against him for fear of their lives.
The doctors all deemed that nothing could be done for Edward, who apparently was incredibly sick at the end. He was coughing up blood, he had boils, ulcers and bedsores (to name a few) and could barely get out of bed, write letters or even speak.
Northumberland was not yet prepared to let him die. He needed more time to set affairs into order in a way that would benefit him (by getting Jane on the throne, who was married to his youngest son, Guilford Dudley). Northumberland hired what AW calls a female 'quack' - a woman who fed aresenic to Edward, which apparently prolonged his life though to great suffering on Edward's part.
When the new line of succession was agreed upon (unwillingly) and sworn to by all advisors in front of Edward himself, Northumberland no longer had a need to keep him alive and got rid of the 'quack', ending the poisoning. Interestingly, this woman was never seen or heard from again and some think that she was murdered. I have no doubt that Northumberland would not be above getting rid of a woman who helped him to poison a King!
Anyway, Edward, pre-illness, was really trying to participate and "do" more by way of ruling. He attempted to emmulate his father in all ways. If you look at pictures of him, he even stands like Henry did, feet apart and hands on hips. He wasn't as athletic as Henry but enjoyed watching sport and loves the masques, etc. When his uncle was Lord Protector he did not let Edward take part in many decisions. This led Edward to hate his uncle.
Northumberland was smart even to realize that he needed to at least make Edward believe that decisions were his to make but was also smart enough to know how to make Edward's decisions mirror his own.
Look at you Jennifer you are getting to be as bad as MAP and me with the super long comments; I love it!I have a feeling if you and I got on the phone to talk Tudors we would be at it until our phones burned our ears and died LOL
Good grief, the poor boy! Northumberland sounds as mean, nasty, and ruthless as AB and KH's uncle Howard. Then for what in the end? Yet another woman pays the price with her life for being forced into being a pawn. I can't imagine anyone not feeling sorry for Lady Jane Grey the nine day Queen.
What do you think the monarchy would have been like if Edward had lived to a ripe old age?
Believe it or not, I've been trying to keep my posts short! Not an easy thing to do, I guess. Northumberland was terrible! His father was executed as a traitor and if my memory serves me correctly, so was he, in the end (haven't quite made it to that point of the book yet). Jane really didn't want to be Queen and attempted to deny the crown. It didn't work, obviously. At this point in my book, Northumberland was turned on by almost all of the advisors, as well as almost everyone else in England. He and all of his sons are being held in the Tower to await their punishment. He changed his tune pretty quickly and vowed alligance to his Queen Mary and begged for mercy. I couldn't help feeling that it looked good on the miserable scum. I hate to think of execution for any reason but my Tudor-standards, if anyone derserved it, I'd say he did.
Edward was incredibly Protestant and seemed to be becoming more so with age. A lot of people would have been spared their lives (those who died under Bloody Mary's rule). He wasn't one for seeing people executed, as far as I can tell, but he'd probably have 'grown' into it so although lives would have been spared, maybe others would have just taken their place. The Catholics, especially. I think he would have become okay with executions for 2 reasons. The first is that he apparently heard that one woman was burned for being a Papist and his remorse was not for her death but for her death before she could be converted to the proper faith and therefore would never reach Heaven. The second is that in his diary entries he never portrayed any hint of emotion. Now, I know just because you don't write it doesn't mean you don't feel it but if he was so good at not having feelings in writing, maybe he never really had them at all? Don't know if that makes sense but those are my thoughts.
A funny thought struck me last night though. Jane might have probably been Queen anyway, going by the lines of succession and had she lived long enough. Edward died young, Mary died, when Elizabeth died, none of them had children so the line would have gone to Frances Brandon, Jane's mother and then to Jane. So… technically, the 9 Day Queen could have actually been Queen in her own right, albeit an older one.
Well, the line of the Stuarts was senior to the Brandon line - Margaret Tudor was the elder daughter of Henry VII.
Susanna wrote: "Well, the line of the Stuarts was senior to the Brandon line - Margaret Tudor was the elder daughter of Henry VII."Henry VIII left in his will that the line of succession was actually supposed to skip over Margaret. It was to go from Edward to Mary to Elizabeth and any children that they had in that order and then skipping Margaret, go right to Mary and her children. Not sure why. Anyone know?
James VI and I was Protestant, and the surviving Grey girls had converted to Catholicism. And the illegitimate(?) sons the elder had were both Catholic.
Makes sense to me!
Hi - I have a book on my TBR list called "Edward VI The Lost King of England" by Chris Skidmore. I can't remember where I saw it listed, all I know is it's non-fiction and looks interesting. Perhaps a group read?
Sounds interesting to me.
This book sounds very interesting. I'm afraid I've largely ignored Eddy in my Tudor obession, only leaning about him a little in a roundabout way through the story of Jane Grey. I'd be in for a group read. When?
I found it at a local bookstore's website. Going to try to go today and see if I can pick it up. It was published in April of this year so it shouldn't be too hard to find.
Let us know what you think, Jennifer. I must have seen it in a list of newly published books in a bookstore email newsletter I get.
Picked up my copy earlier today. It looks good so far but I haven't had a lot of time to really look at it. One thing I'm really pleased about is that it has a list of 'characters' at the beginning with a brief description of who they were, as well as 4 family trees (Tudors, Sulfolks, Seymours and I forget the other). Alison Weir had a really positive review on the front cover too so I'm hopeful. 
Oh excellent! Hopefully there will be a good Borders coupon this week....:)
Hey guys, I just ordered this from the library last night, and am hoping to get it before I leave on vacation this weekend. I should since it said that they had one in the actual library at the time. Can't wait. Jennifer - thanks for the recommendation.
Patricia wrote: "Oh excellent! Hopefully there will be a good Borders coupon this week....:)"There has been a lot of coupons lately but they are doing double points right now!
I'll check out the bookstore or order it up tomorrow.
Lyn wrote: "Jennifer - thanks for the recommendation. "This was actually Patricia's recommendation so thanks Patricia :)
Do we have any thoughts on a start date for this book?
I just got the book from my library - I guess it just came out in paper but was out in cloth in 2007. At any rate, I read the introduction last night and so far, so good. About a start date.....shall we say August 1? That should give people time to get the book if they want to join. I'm not very good at setting up discussion threads...can someone help with this please?!
I was hoping to get this from the library before I left on Friday morning, but it doesn't seem like that is going to work. So-o-o I just went and ordered it on Amazon and it is supposed to get here tomorrow, so I will have it on the 1st of August while I am gone. YAY!!
August 1st. Good. I should have my ordered copy by then. Cheers!
Been reading this thread and I am all in to read this one as a group read. Will hit the book store in the next day or 2 to try and find a copy.
So excited for my first group read :D
Well I went to the only 2 new book stores in town today and could not find a copy of this book. It was also not at the used bookstore in town for me either. I will have to try and order it and hopefully get it in time to do the group read. I am looking forward to reading this one.
I just got my copy from Amazon. So, of course, I had to open it up and read the first page or so. I can tell I am going to enjoy this one. And for those in the OCD support group with me, it is a trade paperback, so it fits right on my Tudor shelf with the others.
Wen - I hope you can find a copy! It looks really goodLyn - Good job keeping it consistent lol
So - just FYI, I will be out of internet range (I think, anyway) until August 11th. I have my copy and will begin reading on August 1st, then will join in the discussion when I return.
GRIN... YAY! I just scored a copy of the book on EBAY for only $3.95. It is the HB version. I usually get PB when I can but I could not beat the price. Hopefully will come fast too.
Rats, looks like I am last to get the book but I am in on the group read!
So, we're all in for August 1. Looking over the last couple of posts it looks like it's me, Patricia, Lyn, Wen, Colleen & Thalia. Anyone else interested?
How do we add to that currently reading or upcoming reads spot on the main page? Does a MOD have to do that? We might be able to get more interest if people see it who haven't been following this thread :D
I am one of the MOD's Jennifer so I'll see to adding the book to currently reading when the time comes.
Thanks Colleen. I think there's a way to do upcoming too, isn't there?I've seen it on other groups and then an email goes out to the group members saying that the group is about to start reading whichever book?
Lemmie go play around with the group settings, I can send an e-mail to every group member so I'll alert everybody else to see if we can get more people interested in the group read.
Colleen wrote: "Lemmie go play around with the group settings, I can send an e-mail to every group member so I'll alert everybody else to see if we can get more people interested in the group read."Looks good :D
Colleen wrote: "Lemmie go play around with the group settings, I can send an e-mail to every group member so I'll alert everybody else to see if we can get more people interested in the group read."Thanks, Colleen!
Thanks Jennifer, you are welcome Patricia!
Ha! I just got the book from the library today, last but not least I am ready for Aug. 1
This will be my first group read so I was wondering how this works exactly. Does a new thread start of the actual discussion of the book? I'm asking because I've already started as I couldn't wait for Saturday *grin*
Thalia wrote: "This will be my first group read so I was wondering how this works exactly. Does a new thread start of the actual discussion of the book? I'm asking because I've already started as I couldn't wai..."I was wondering the same thing? What does everyone think about making a new heading/topic called Group Reads (like the existing Authors, etc.) and then having individual threads for our reads (assuming we have more than this one, which I would love)? If everyone thinks that's a good idea, can you do it, Colleen?
Jennifer wrote: "Thalia wrote: "This will be my first group read so I was wondering how this works exactly. Does a new thread start of the actual discussion of the book? I'm asking because I've already started as..."I know in one of the other groups I am in there method of doing the group reads seems pretty organized. Just before the group read starts for that month several new topic headings are started. They are split by sections in the book or parts depending on how the book is written. Then people can start posting comments about the book in the section they are on and then there is a final tpoic for posting comments on the book over all.
Doing something similar may make it easy for us to get going since it is our first one in here.
In the group I am talking about I only tried one read with them and was just last month. Sadly I just could not get into the book that was chosen for the read but am looking forward to doing more in here and maybe there too in the future.
One suggestion if we make this a regular thing to pick the books early on so everyone that wants to participate has time to get it.
I only tried one read with them and that was last month.
Wen wrote: "Jennifer wrote: "Thalia wrote: "This will be my first group read so I was wondering how this works exactly. Does a new thread start of the actual discussion of the book? I'm asking because I've a..."That sounds great Wen. I'm really looking forward to our first group read!
I got the book yesterday and have read the introduction and the first chapter. I think that the intro, in and of itself, contains a lot of very good informtion and I think that having the various family trees in the front is excellent. I even like historical novels to have family trees! I think it's going to be an excellent read!
Jennifer wrote: "Thalia wrote: "This will be my first group read so I was wondering how this works exactly. Does a new thread start of the actual discussion of the book? I'm asking because I've already started as..."Slow down ladies! Mods are working on it, I just want to get the head mod/group creater's opinions first. I'm working on it...
Nothing commented here in a while, but just a bit of fun trivia. Did you know that the Prince in Mark Twain's The Prince and the Pauper was supposed to be Edward VI?
Yeah, but those eymours and Dudleys watched him like hawks; or in his case vultures.
I loved TP&TP. It was a lot of fun imagining what those boys went through!
Tudor History Lovers
Books mentioned in this topic
The Prince and the Pauper (other topics)Edward VI: The Lost King of England (other topics)
