City of Fallen Angels
discussion
Why I don't like Clary Fray
I kind of hate Clary too because she is so insensitive. All this time, she can't feel that her bestfriend, Simon is madly in love with her?! It's so absurd. Any girl would have known if her supposed-to-be-bestie is making her feel more special in a very romantic non-bestie way.But despite that, I still love her. She's brave, beautiful, lethally smart. She will do anything for the special ones in her life. (ohh we all do) And she's Clary- a fictional character in the Mortal Instruments Series. You can hate her in every way you want. But she can never hate you back.
I don't hate her per se, but I wouldn't say she's my favourite character ever either (Now ... Magnus on the other hand ... :P Hubba hubba). Something about her bugs me, though I can't put my finger on it (might be one of the things you listed, not sure).
Carthya wrote: "but can you elaborate on the closed-minded and "if i can't be happy then on one else can' point? i don't really understand what you mean "About the close minded part, there are many parts of the books that many people are giving advice to her or protecting her and stuffs but she wouldn't listen. Instead she will do what she wanted to do (I'm not saying that it's bad but doing it all the times is really annoying).
About the 'if i can't be happy . .' you know how she whines all the time and everytime she have a problem she's dragging people on it so that's how I see her like that :)
Carthya wrote: oh i see. thanks for explaining :) No problem :D
i am not a fan of calry. to use my favourite expression,"clary is half shade better than bella swan" she is too obsessed with jace that i am unable to differentiate between jace and her. it like jace has possessed her. i know it makes no sense but i feel that clary is nothing without jace.
At least Clary's better than Bella. HA HA. but seriously though, I originally didn't like Clary, but when the movie came out, Lily Collins made Clary sooo likable! Lily Collins made Clary come to life. :)))
Clary's okay bit she does act without thinking how her actions might affect others
Clary is my second fave character (my first being Simon). I kind of agree with what your saying, like how she's whiny, and depends on Jace too much and is a horrible decision maker, but there are worse characters out there (like Bella).
I do agree with some of those, but I try to understand that she needs to have bad qualities with good qualities to make her seem more real.
Isn't that what most teenage girls are like though?Clary isn't even as bad as most of them. Yeah i guess you're right in the fact that Clary can be stubborn and selfish etc, but she needs bad traits as well as good traits to make her seem more real and relatable. You have to look at all her good traits too though she cares so much about her friends and family to the extent she would probably die for them and she's such a brave and strong character.
Eleanor wrote: "Isn't that what most teenage girls are like though?"That is true...
Thank God it isn't just me! .. I don't hate her but like most of you have said she is just really annoying, selfish and needy since half way through book 4 I have just skim read most scenes involving her/her and jace ( since they are never separated, I get they are in love but seriously!!).. besides any time you get them together they are only trying to develop their physical relationship which I find pretty tiresome!
Nicole wrote: "Lily Collins made Clary sooo likable!..."I really like Lily Collins, she brought out the 'badass-ness' of Clary in the movie
Katie wrote: "Thank God it isn't just me! .. I don't hate her but like most of you have said she is just really annoying, selfish and needy since half way through book 4 I have just skim read most scenes involvi..."very true.
She's human! And I love all of those quirks about her because they aren't necessarily bad (I disagree about her needing Jace's help all of the time. Most of the time she needs help simply because she isn't fully trained yet.) But that impulsiveness and stubbornness though they are faults, often turn out in her favor despite the fact that in most YA fantasy novels nowadays those particular faults make EVERYTHING worse. Clary is proof that you don't need to be perfect to be a good shadowhunter or human.
Princess wrote: "Nicole wrote: "Lily Collins made Clary sooo likable!..."I really like Lily Collins, she brought out the 'badass-ness' of Clary in the movie"
That is true. She was very badass in the movie.
Normally when you read books the main character is your favourite, however in the mortal instruments series my favourite characters over Clary are Isabelle, Magnus, Simon and Maia. Whilst I can say Clary is not my favourite character, I dont hate her.Does anyone else feel like this?
Emily wrote: "Princess wrote: "Nicole wrote: "Lily Collins made Clary sooo likable!..."I really like Lily Collins, she brought out the 'badass-ness' of Clary in the movie"
That is true. She was very badass in..."
her clothes are badass but I dont think Lily Collins was all that badass
Mikaela wrote: "Emily wrote: "Princess wrote: "Nicole wrote: "Lily Collins made Clary sooo likable!..."I really like Lily Collins, she brought out the 'badass-ness' of Clary in the movie"
That is true. She was ..."
kinda agree. lily collins merely played clary. she did not make Clary look bad ass.
Honestly I only hated her in City of Fallen Angels. She whined a lot, and was always making really rash, impulsive decisions without thinking of the consequences. But as a whole, Clary is a kick-ass heroine, compared to other REALLY boring heroines *cough cough Tris cough cough*
hmm I kinda agree especially when she gets all impulsive and whiny. Other than that she's great.
I absolutely hate her, she's the only reason I gave the series 4.5 out of 5 stars. Clary depends entirely on Jace and cannot fend for herself. When the chance for her to finally train comes up, she ends up snogging or sleeping with Jace. Seriously? There was no character development in her and she whines way too much. She is willing to have everyone she loves die, every thing she cares for to die just for Jace. I understand you supposedly "love" him, but being a stupid bitch for him is just too much. I hate her so much! She's horrible. Clary should just die in the last book, that's how much I hate her.
Sabiha wrote: "I absolutely hate her, she's the only reason I gave the series 4.5 out of 5 stars. Clary depends entirely on Jace and cannot fend for herself. When the chance for her to finally train comes up, she..."Are we reading the same book? We are still talking about the Clary Fray that ran into a hotel full of vampires for Simon, faced some really scary guy who turned out to be her father, and many other obstacles and scary people to save her mom, goes through hell and fucking back to bring Jace back, and more!
Jacquelyn wrote: "Sabiha wrote: "I absolutely hate her, she's the only reason I gave the series 4.5 out of 5 stars. Clary depends entirely on Jace and cannot fend for herself. When the chance for her to finally trai..."Clary may have ran into the hotel for Simon, but she hardly did any fighting and whines too much. She's blind. When she faced her father, did she do anything to really stop him? Sure she stuck around, but she never fought for real or remained strong like Isabelle. She faced pesky obstacles and hardly did anything. Isabelle, Simon, and everybody else seemed to kick mire butt, did more dealing, and fought for more. Throughout the entire series, all she thinks is about Jace and is an insensitive bitch. She doesn't care about anyone else. Heck, when Luke got injured, when Max died she hardly cared. Remember I said hardly. And more? Why don't you explain because she did hardly anything!
Nicole wrote: "At least Clary's better than Bella. HA HA. but seriously though, I originally didn't like Clary, but when the movie came out, Lily Collins made Clary sooo likable! Lily Collins made Clary come to l..."I totally agree with you! When I reread the book I imagined Lilly Collins and Clary seemed a lot better in my head. :) I liked Clary before but not too much but now I have a stronger image of her.
I liked her in the beginning, but CoLS really made me dislike her..... Her whining and inability to stand up for herself or to anyone else infuriated me.
OMG I KNOW AND THE MOVIE MADE HER SUCK EVEN MORE. I DIDN'T LIKE THE MOVIE AT ALL.
I can definitely see why some ppl don't like her... but what mostly bothered me was how the author kept dragging out the whole sibling thing/star-crossed lovers and just would NOT let them be together... just one thing after another kept coming in the way and it really got on my nerves. What a broken record.
I actually do like her character a lot but I can see where you are coming from if I was to meet her I probably wouldn't like her. She definitely isn't my favourite character but I do like her more than other characters.
I liked the mortal instruments series, but hated Jace and Clary. They were just so whiney and annoying. I especially hated the scene where Jace yelled at Clary. 1.) You shouldn't stay with a boy who treats you like that, and 2.) Instead of sticking up for herself, all Clary did was sob. Magnus, Alec, Simon and Isabelle are all great characters (especially Magnus and Alec), and the while the plot isn't exactly original, it has some unique twists here and there. What really ruins the series is how Clary and Jace act. Clary has one or two bad ass scenes in the series, but over all, she's just a whimpy girl who was supposed to be "feisty" but all she has is a bunch of temper tantrums. And then, of course, she needs Jace to rescue her.
You should read the Bane Chronicles...short stories about Magnus' life and more of Alec.
yes, I heard about the Bane Chronicles and I really want them but I'm not sure where I can get them!
Princess wrote: "There is something that’s keeping me from finishing TMI books fast. Don’t get me wrong, TMI is a great series. However, I have a huge problem with Clary Fray.Why I don’t like Clary Fray:
• She's..."
and also for pushing his own brother away
kayla wrote: "OMG I KNOW AND THE MOVIE MADE HER SUCK EVEN MORE. I DIDN'T LIKE THE MOVIE AT ALL."I sort of agree with you. The movie made me read the books. But i see what you mean Clary sucked in the movie. I'm not sure if it was the actor (i don't really like her), in the books she was way better when comparing the two, but she was still really stuck up, it seemed like she didn't care about the outcome of her choices at all...
i like clary i'm just like her- its what you would probably happen if someone told me all of a sudden that my dad was evil and so is my brother and the fact that there are demons living in the world !!??! i just can relate to that because nobody's perfect so what do you expect out of her. Also it is told that clary and jace only feel safe when they're together and they worry a lot about where they are. And making the right decision is hard. Clary is not very judgmental from what i have read. so there is my opinion
I understand some of the comments that people have posted here... but has anyone read Cassie's post about Clary? It says:Look, it’s okay if you don’t like Clary. Characters are like real people: there is no such thing as one that everyone loves. She is meant to be realistic and flawed, of course–she’s impulsive and rash, she’s quick to act and sometimes also quick to judge–and just like with real people, that means some will like her and some won’t. (In fact, with Clary, I deliberately gave her a lot of traits I associate with boy heroes in fiction: impulsiveness, recklessness, lack of regard for her own safety, the responsibility to protect her mother, best friend, boyfriend; the responsibility to save the world. I wanted to see how they would sit with a girl protagonist. And, well, a lot of people don’t like it.
So what I say to you... would you still dislike Clary if she was a guy?
And also, in regards to some other things that people have said - the Simon rebound thing... Have you actually considered that Clary honestly didn't know that he was in love with her? If he was the only person she hung out with she wouldn't have anything to compare it to... and maybe she honestly thought that they could be a couple, I mean, if they had such a good friendship, then why couldn't they be a good couple??
I mean honestly people, Clary isn't a bad person, she is actually a great person. Think about the things you don't like about her and think if maybe that's because she's a girl and not a guy...
Jacquelyn wrote: "She's human! And I love all of those quirks about her because they aren't necessarily bad (I disagree about her needing Jace's help all of the time. Most of the time she needs help simply because s..."I agree. She isn't a perfect person, but that's okay. People don't always do or the say the right things. She believed in goodness and never giving up. Those traits lead her to stop her father, a war, and her evil brother. Also, she manged to save herself a lot of times by her own quick thinking. Clary's a good person and I like her.
Brianna wrote: "Jacquelyn wrote: "She's human! And I love all of those quirks about her because they aren't necessarily bad (I disagree about her needing Jace's help all of the time. Most of the time she needs hel..."I agree! Clary isn't perfect, because no one is perfect, and you can't relate to perfect characters! And especially because Cassie gave her lots of traits she associates with boy heroes: her recklessness, impulsiveness, disregard for her own safety, and the need to save everyone.
Clary is a good person, and the traits that people often complain about are what led her to stopping the war.
Maddie wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Jacquelyn wrote: "She's human! And I love all of those quirks about her because they aren't necessarily bad (I disagree about her needing Jace's help all of the time. Most of the ti..."Exactly, you just can't relate to perfect characters. Therefore, characters are flawed jut like real people. Also, female characters have a tendency to be criticized more than male characters. Jace is also reckless, impulsive, and has a need to save everyone (Alec talks about it in City of Bones), yet people criticize Clary for having the same traits.
Brianna wrote: "Maddie wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Jacquelyn wrote: "She's human! And I love all of those quirks about her because they aren't necessarily bad (I disagree about her needing Jace's help all of the time...."Yes! Exactly! I don't see why people don't understand that!
Maddie wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Maddie wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Jacquelyn wrote: "She's human! And I love all of those quirks about her because they aren't necessarily bad (I disagree about her needing Jace's help ..."Well, I think most people don't even notice they're doing it. We've been taught all our lives that men should be praised because they're always the heroes. It can be hard to try to think differently from what you've always been told. Most people will condemn Clary for doing the same things Jace does merely because of the society we've grown up in.
Brianna wrote: "Maddie wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Maddie wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Jacquelyn wrote: "She's human! And I love all of those quirks about her because they aren't necessarily bad (I disagree about her needi..."Amen! I'm currently doing a research project on whether or not people perceive female characters more negatively than male characters and its really interesting at the moment.
Maddie wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Maddie wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Maddie wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Jacquelyn wrote: "She's human! And I love all of those quirks about her because they aren't necessarily bad (I disagree..."Oh really? That sounds cool. What interesting things have you found so far?
Brianna wrote: "Maddie wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Maddie wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Maddie wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Jacquelyn wrote: "She's human! And I love all of those quirks about her because they aren't necessarily ..."Lots of people don't think so... but they were people that don't actually read. Other people thought that females are often seen as the damsel in distress, and when they stray from that character then its not good, how females are often labelled as annoying for literally doing anything, the whoel strong female cahracter thing, how guys are automatically strong characters but its amazing if a girl can and yeah that sort of stuff
Maddie wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Maddie wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Maddie wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Maddie wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Jacquelyn wrote: "She's human! And I love all of those quirks about her because they are..."Yeah, I've seen a lot of what you're saying. I think it's important for people to notice how female characters are critiqued differently, you know? Like, how does a female's characters heroic actions differ from a man's? Is it because she's female that it's seen as something strange or different? I think sometimes people are either amazed when a female character does anything a male character can or they thinks it's strange because they think female's aren't capable of doing anything like a male.
I am so glad that somebody has finally created this discussion!I can honestly say that Clary is one of my least favorite characters in this series. She plays with people's emotions and expects everyone to put themselves in danger in order to help her.
HOWEVER, she does become more likable in City Of Glass and in the following books.
I guess the main reason I didn't like her was because she dated Simon in City of Ashes, even though she knew she was in love with Jace. That was not right
Brianna wrote: "Maddie wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Maddie wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Maddie wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Maddie wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Jacquelyn wrote: "She's human! And I love all of those quirks about her b..."to me as long as a character can keep up with cool action i dont complain. isabele was the best character because she is aloof and can actually fight alongside jace. she is not perfect either.those kind of characters are inspiring. even if clary may have some good qualities, they get forgotten in her nondescript persona. lets face it, this is a fantasy demon hunter book, and being the narrator clary has to atleast give us something to keep us interested.
Jacquelyn wrote: "Sabiha wrote: "I absolutely hate her, she's the only reason I gave the series 4.5 out of 5 stars. Clary depends entirely on Jace and cannot fend for herself. When the chance for her to finally trai..."Wholeheartedly agree!
So I can understand each and every point you make with your bullets, and I do not disagree that she does possess all of these qualities through the first few books, but some of the comments I have read lead me to wonder if anyone has actually read the series in its entirety? Or perhaps you haven't even evaluated your own life or the life of humans in general?"Impulsive, selfish, and stubborn" were three adjectives that stood out to me.
Unless you can find proof in every chapter of every novel where Clary is quite obviously portraying these characteristics, I don't see your argument for hating her due to these reasons alone. Here is my opinion: As humans, we ALL possess these less-than-righteous qualities. Clary is not perfect, nor does she pretend to be. And I admire Cassie for writing her as flawed as she is!
Are you all saying that, to be acceptable to you, Clary needs to be a perfect character? She needs to think about others before herself in EVRY. SINGLE. DECISION. she makes in her life? Do you do that?
Clary is beautifully flawed, and that is why I find her such a beautiful character.
Sure in the beginning she might be kind of annoying, but this is the point. To see her grow as not only a shadowhunter but as a human being.
If you cannot respect this and see why she sometimes acts like this, I have to question your own humanity, judgment, and emotional capacity as a reader.
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Why I don’t like Clary Fray:
• She's a bit too whiny.
• She depends on Jace's help a lot. Most of the time actually.
• She doesn’t know how to take criticism
• Her decision-making SUCKS!
• She’s a bit impulsive
• She’s kinda selfish sometimes
• Her attitude is kinda ‘if I can’t be happy then no one else can’
• She’s close-minded
• She’s stubborn
• She’s judgemental
So I don’t want to get hate from this but all I’m saying here is this is how I see her when I’m reading the book and if you don’t think the same thing. I totally respect that so please respect mine. And I still wanna hear it from you too guys so whaddya think?