City of Fallen Angels
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Why I don't like Clary Fray
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Not necessarily all her friends. I mean Alec has been raised a soldier and to look down upon Downworlders but if you had read the Bane chronicles, you would know he doesn't discriminate or stereotype against them (when he fight alongside Magnus). His parents are especially stereotypical and so his upbringing has been all about it.But deep inside he knows what is right he is just too afraid to speak it out loud, because he fears he will be 'more' of a disappointment. So he acts as how he is 'supposed' to.
I feel like not a lot of people understand this point and so they generally hate Alec for this.
He was especially quick to join the group that wanted to change the way the law works. And if you had read snippets of the Eldest Curses, you would know about his conversation with Aline.
I didn't mean to come down on you like a ton of bricks, I'm just saying please be careful of who you accuse.
So it's practically clary and her friends except for Alec
But yes. Clary hasn't been in their world long enough to know about Downworlders as much as they do or about the stories. And yet she still treats them like crap.Which leads me to believe that she naturally stereotypes against people with a different ethnicity than hers.
#1MalecShipper wrote: "I agree with you 100%
You've literally been speaking my mind on the topic of Clary Fray"
Wow , that spot on huh.
Laughing at that little comment “typing her name hurts.”
Don’t worry i didn’t really think all of them just blindly believe everything , Alec has other problems in terms of his character but either way they go with what the author seems to want for each book , i don’t see him as much of a central character , but in the newest tv series he is a likeable character . (I have only watched snippets)
No i dont read any of cassandra clare’s books i just managed to skim through the mortal instruments but i did contemplate checking into the dark artifices but the last thing i need is to read about Jace’s ancestors. Although the main character , she was a demon and proved my point that demon in their world doesnt mean evil by default , how “shocking” lol
Look im just grouping them together because clary’s group have a hive mind for the most part , i dont really care for the semantics but yeah sure some have varying beliefs at times.
They’re not really a different ethnicity , dont get mixed up in the “political correctness” of it , theyre a different species almost , but either way clary is just a cookie cutter character with almost no depth so im not surprised she would represent the “typical hero.” But yeah.
You've literally been speaking my mind on the topic of Clary Fray"
Wow , that spot on huh.
Laughing at that little comment “typing her name hurts.”
Don’t worry i didn’t really think all of them just blindly believe everything , Alec has other problems in terms of his character but either way they go with what the author seems to want for each book , i don’t see him as much of a central character , but in the newest tv series he is a likeable character . (I have only watched snippets)
No i dont read any of cassandra clare’s books i just managed to skim through the mortal instruments but i did contemplate checking into the dark artifices but the last thing i need is to read about Jace’s ancestors. Although the main character , she was a demon and proved my point that demon in their world doesnt mean evil by default , how “shocking” lol
Look im just grouping them together because clary’s group have a hive mind for the most part , i dont really care for the semantics but yeah sure some have varying beliefs at times.
They’re not really a different ethnicity , dont get mixed up in the “political correctness” of it , theyre a different species almost , but either way clary is just a cookie cutter character with almost no depth so im not surprised she would represent the “typical hero.” But yeah.
Atty wrote: "#1MalecShipper wrote: "I agree with you 100%You've literally been speaking my mind on the topic of Clary Fray"
Wow , that spot on huh.
Laughing at that little comment “typing her name hurts.”
..."
Yeah, but they way you say it makes it sound as if Clary 'and her friends' are stereotypical characters - practically designed to be stereotypical. When in reality it is just Clary, Jace and Izzy (wasn't against them but didn't really respect them)
Most characters do seem to have no depth or they actually have depth but don't discuss it or practically just ignore it and become a fighting machine. Clary is the prime and Jace the latter.
I prefer Book Alec over TV Show Alec
You know, Atty, you actually give very out of the box point of the views, whereas most people are so one-dimensional that they don't see the story for what it really is.It's refreshing
#1MalecShipper wrote: "Atty wrote: "#1MalecShipper wrote: "I agree with you 100%
You've literally been speaking my mind on the topic of Clary Fray"
Wow , that spot on huh.
Laughing at that little comment “typing her n..."
Yeah , basically , they kind of are because it seems the author wanted a safe sort of basic set up of dynamics and a group of those dynamics. Not saying none of them ever show any depth or independent thought . Simon for example seemed a bit different in a way , caring and helpful , realistic struggle with his family’s reaction to what he became.
As for Alec , i get that you like his character and there are some likeable characteristics but there’s also a pettiness if im remembering correctly , where he wants magnus to become mortal to spend his life with him when magnus wants to live forever.
Yeah most people seem to think alike and just like the surface level of the story , i dont find that very interesting so i like to analyze things to see if it has depth and anything worthwhile. If you only look at everything from one perspective you probably will see a very limited story etc.
Thank you .
You've literally been speaking my mind on the topic of Clary Fray"
Wow , that spot on huh.
Laughing at that little comment “typing her n..."
Yeah , basically , they kind of are because it seems the author wanted a safe sort of basic set up of dynamics and a group of those dynamics. Not saying none of them ever show any depth or independent thought . Simon for example seemed a bit different in a way , caring and helpful , realistic struggle with his family’s reaction to what he became.
As for Alec , i get that you like his character and there are some likeable characteristics but there’s also a pettiness if im remembering correctly , where he wants magnus to become mortal to spend his life with him when magnus wants to live forever.
Yeah most people seem to think alike and just like the surface level of the story , i dont find that very interesting so i like to analyze things to see if it has depth and anything worthwhile. If you only look at everything from one perspective you probably will see a very limited story etc.
Thank you .
He would never have actually gone through with it, it was just his over-extensive imagination taking place. He wondered what it would be like, what would happen if it did actually happen. Again, imagination doesn't justify as reason. it's like me going 'Hmm, i wondered what would happen if i broke my mom's most precious vase'He would never expect Magnus to do something as permanent as taking his life away for a mere mortal. And also, Alec's insecurity contradicts your statement.
Why would he want Magnus to take away his immortality for him, if he already thinks that he is just Magnus' fling of an idea. Their relationship has become better over the books, but some deep, dark questions like that haunt you. They don't go away, they merely settle at the bottom of your heart.
And by the way, Magnus had the Book of the White because he was thinking of turning himself mortal. So he was the one questioning anything concerning turning a warlock mortal in their relationship.
And even if your ludicrous idea were true, it would most certainly not make him petty - it would actually make him the opposite and create a darkness to his character. Because if he were thinking those things, it would mean he yearns for a happy ending - maybe because he never had one - maybe he thought that Magnus loved him enough to grant him this grand gesture. It could also mean that he is aware that Magnus has lost a lot of people in his life and isn't and will never be quite ready to lose him yet (for he has not loved another like he has Alexander Lightwood).
Do not call him petty, you and I are entitled to our own opinion. But once you make it sound as a declared statement, you're not only breaking the rules of a group conversation, you are starting a war.
Look im just going based off of what i heard , i heard that Alec actually tried to turn magnus into a mortal , it is irrelevant whether or not magnus considered it himself , it was his decision and only his to make . I get that youre a fan of them so obviously theres some bias there and your persistent attempts to defend alec , i personally dont care that much about their relationship i wasnt much of a fan , although magnus was funny sometimes or interesting but alec would be petty and selfish if he was even considering it because it would be based on what he wanted only , not because magnus considered it although he might try to use that as an excuse , just based off of the books its pretty clear that even with limited information thats exactly what it seems to be.
I didnt really contradict myself i dont think i even said he was just a fling , but magnus is known to have many lovers and it was made pretty clear that alec became jealous, same way he was with jace.
If he wanted to become human thats fine , but if his decision was based solely on what alec wanted it wouldnt be fair or right , i just dont think magnus, being an immortal warlock would necessarily trade that in even for someone he loved, or liked. Immortality may be thought of as a curse but it cant be denied that it is always a gift in a sense .
Breaking the rules of a group conversation ? I think youre just very attached to those characters and are getting extremely defensive about them , if it was based in logic then fine but this is clearly emotional , because you really like the characters and their personality.
Yeah that last statement definitely sounds like you’re starting to lose your cool , so maybe we should just end it here .
You can think and feel however you want about the characters , like i said im personally not even interested in them much. I was more interested on the central plot and the “love triangle” if you will, although i prefer not to think of it as the cliche sort .
I didnt really contradict myself i dont think i even said he was just a fling , but magnus is known to have many lovers and it was made pretty clear that alec became jealous, same way he was with jace.
If he wanted to become human thats fine , but if his decision was based solely on what alec wanted it wouldnt be fair or right , i just dont think magnus, being an immortal warlock would necessarily trade that in even for someone he loved, or liked. Immortality may be thought of as a curse but it cant be denied that it is always a gift in a sense .
Breaking the rules of a group conversation ? I think youre just very attached to those characters and are getting extremely defensive about them , if it was based in logic then fine but this is clearly emotional , because you really like the characters and their personality.
Yeah that last statement definitely sounds like you’re starting to lose your cool , so maybe we should just end it here .
You can think and feel however you want about the characters , like i said im personally not even interested in them much. I was more interested on the central plot and the “love triangle” if you will, although i prefer not to think of it as the cliche sort .
I'm not losing my cool. Imagine me going 'Sebastian is immature' It would get your blood pumping too, wouldn't it?
If you're going based on what you heard, rather than what you read, then your sources are completely wrong.
Is it wrong to get emotionally attached to a character up to the point of defending them, because if so you are also in the wrong based on your comments of Sebastian.
I am not even going to try wasting my time explaining something to someone who is only is this conversation 'based on what they heard'
All i'm saying is that you clearly have this annoying habit - based of what i read - of already labelling people. You don't really try to understand their point of view unless it is a god called Sebastian.
This is based in logic for people who have read it.
Can you blame Alec for thinking the way he did. Maybe he was being selfish, but can you blame. Always doing for others and not himself. Magnus is the only thing (well person :)) that Alec had all for himself, so sue him for making irresponsible decisions and wanting more.
He didn't really try to turn him mortal, he considered it, considered the outcomes and in the end - neglected the idea because he learnt he was being 'selfish'. So instead of shaming him can we at least give him some points for character development.
He wasn't jealous, he was insecure - he feared he would become a footnote in Magnus' thick book of history (and historical lovers).
I'm not really losing my cool, I'm reminding you.
Magnus' decision to become immortal was based on himself, he truly did give it some thought
And, in any case we should probably go back to ranting about Clary
Bridget Lightwood-Bane wrote: "I'm not losing my cool. Imagine me going 'Sebastian is immature'
It would get your blood pumping too, wouldn't it?
If you're going based on what you heard, rather than what you read, then your so..."
I knew you would say that , lol. As long as what they say about Sebastian is true , i don’t mind , characters have flaws and i can discuss Sebastian’s as well , the reason i defended his character so much is because everyone was pretty much against him or the ones that liked the character were trying to placate the people that said they shouldn’t .
Sebastian had flaws , and if someone logically pointed them out i could discuss them but most people made ridiculous claims despite the book showing that the opposite was true or there wasn’t enough evidence etc.
I base my convictions on how i see the character , i give characters chances but there are certain things that hint at very bad traits in someone . Yeah i guess Alec always did obey the rules , he broke them sometimes too , he was pretty decent . If he did reconsider and realize he was selfish then yes he developed , more than Clary did and in less time apparently.
Insecurity and jealousy tend to go hand in hand , he might have been both. That’s something he would have had to come to terms with , either he spent some time with Magnus or he could have tried moving on to someone he liked better that he could actually live a full life with . Basically Alec wasnt thinking of what was best for him , and figuring out how to make a decision . But i think it all worked out in the end , or something , right? Lol
Yeah but like i said , alright , imagine youre considering a huge life decision , then someone you care about trying to make that life decision for you , or even considering it , it would feel like a betrayal and maybe even like they thought you couldn’t handle making decisions about your own life. Thats what im saying, it would be different if he had decided to include Alec in the decision making process. Its one of the only things the fans of the books got right.
Sebastian is not a god by the way , i adore certain characters but it does not mean i hold them in that high regard, either way it fades over time usually most of it .
Ranting about Clary ? Was there more? Lol
It would get your blood pumping too, wouldn't it?
If you're going based on what you heard, rather than what you read, then your so..."
I knew you would say that , lol. As long as what they say about Sebastian is true , i don’t mind , characters have flaws and i can discuss Sebastian’s as well , the reason i defended his character so much is because everyone was pretty much against him or the ones that liked the character were trying to placate the people that said they shouldn’t .
Sebastian had flaws , and if someone logically pointed them out i could discuss them but most people made ridiculous claims despite the book showing that the opposite was true or there wasn’t enough evidence etc.
I base my convictions on how i see the character , i give characters chances but there are certain things that hint at very bad traits in someone . Yeah i guess Alec always did obey the rules , he broke them sometimes too , he was pretty decent . If he did reconsider and realize he was selfish then yes he developed , more than Clary did and in less time apparently.
Insecurity and jealousy tend to go hand in hand , he might have been both. That’s something he would have had to come to terms with , either he spent some time with Magnus or he could have tried moving on to someone he liked better that he could actually live a full life with . Basically Alec wasnt thinking of what was best for him , and figuring out how to make a decision . But i think it all worked out in the end , or something , right? Lol
Yeah but like i said , alright , imagine youre considering a huge life decision , then someone you care about trying to make that life decision for you , or even considering it , it would feel like a betrayal and maybe even like they thought you couldn’t handle making decisions about your own life. Thats what im saying, it would be different if he had decided to include Alec in the decision making process. Its one of the only things the fans of the books got right.
Sebastian is not a god by the way , i adore certain characters but it does not mean i hold them in that high regard, either way it fades over time usually most of it .
Ranting about Clary ? Was there more? Lol
Thank you for clarifying and clearing that up. The last few comments did get pretty ugly bit at the end of the day, we both have our opinions and are especially entitled to them. I really wish we could've gotten more of Sebastian in the books.But one thing that you and I can agree on is that Clary is not a very good character. I mean I read a lot of series and nothing gets my blood pumping more than reading about her or (as you've seen above) people in any way insulting my favourite characters because of a misunderstanding.
As soon as I finished TMI, I was raging to my older sister about her and she was just like 'I don't care'. So i found these topics and am now freely speaking my mind.
P.S that was the reason they broke up, even if Magnus didn't quite yet understand the full story yet
Bridget Lightwood-Bane wrote: "Thank you for clarifying and clearing that up. The last few comments did get pretty ugly bit at the end of the day, we both have our opinions and are especially entitled to them. I really wish we c..."
Sure. I think people tend to take what i say too personally or misunderstand me a lot , seems to happen often.
Yeah i wish that too , i actually looked through the books trying to find scenes with him in it .
Actually ended up buying a brand new boxed set hardcovers of the mortal instruments a while after realizing i really liked that one character lol can’t believe i actually paid what i did for it , and supported the author but hey, she delivered a pretty interesting world and one character i really liked. So, ill just let it go , i dont regret buying them.
Yeah sometimes siblings dont care, until its a book they found that they like, then they have to tell you about it. Lol
Yeah i know , i heard about that being the reason . Im not really surprised .
Sure. I think people tend to take what i say too personally or misunderstand me a lot , seems to happen often.
Yeah i wish that too , i actually looked through the books trying to find scenes with him in it .
Actually ended up buying a brand new boxed set hardcovers of the mortal instruments a while after realizing i really liked that one character lol can’t believe i actually paid what i did for it , and supported the author but hey, she delivered a pretty interesting world and one character i really liked. So, ill just let it go , i dont regret buying them.
Yeah sometimes siblings dont care, until its a book they found that they like, then they have to tell you about it. Lol
Yeah i know , i heard about that being the reason . Im not really surprised .
Bridget Lightwood-Bane wrote: "P.S that was the reason they broke up, even if Magnus didn't quite yet understand the full story yet"
Idk if you read about why i dislike clary or if i mentioned everything here but its too flawed a character yet at the same time too cookie cutter lol almost a paradox.
Idk if you read about why i dislike clary or if i mentioned everything here but its too flawed a character yet at the same time too cookie cutter lol almost a paradox.
That's how I felt about her character too.Well, just add a lot of raw rage to it
Bridget Lightwood-Bane wrote: "That's how I felt about her character too.
Well, just add a lot of raw rage to it"
Haha i see, yes she is infuriating and i can point to a few specific instances.
Well, just add a lot of raw rage to it"
Haha i see, yes she is infuriating and i can point to a few specific instances.
Please don't. Don't rue the day for me
Bridget Lightwood-Bane wrote: "Please don't. Don't rue the day for me"
Lol, alright i’ll spare you .
Lol, alright i’ll spare you .
I actually couldn’t stand her but i do like some of her character, its just too bad shes such a persistent nightmare and continuously has such demeaning and selfish thoughts.
The reason I dislike Clary is a little different then the reason others. I hate her personality. I understand her flaws and everything and while I don’t like her impulsivity and lack of listening skills, I understand them and they don’t make me hate her. What makes me hate her as the main protagonist is her boringness. She bores me plain and simple. It’s so weird because for me, the plot is exciting and fun, but Clary is... not. And I know I’m not the only one that believes this. Even those who like Clary always hold another character in higher regard. Simon, Magnus, Alec, Izzy... maybe even Jace. She’s a flat character to me and does not draw me in. What made me realize this even more than I already did was reading a rewrite fanfic where Simon was the Shadowhunter and Fray instead of Clary. I don’t know if it it was the author (I don’t think so bc she took to the character pretty accurately with only slight changes), but he was a far better Clary then the real Clary. Another opportunity that was missed out on bc Clary was the main character was a mixing of mundane and Shadowhunter culture. I understand that it’s about Shadowhunters and all, but she was raised in the mundane world. Why does she not seem to act like it? Where’s the pop culture that always makes us readers grin? Where’s the fun? I just hate her bland, plain personality. There are no quirks. She is not funny. Her sass falls flat. Her badassery leaves much to be desired.I prefer every single other character than her.
Princess wrote: "There is something that’s keeping me from finishing TMI books fast. Don’t get me wrong, TMI is a great series. However, I have a huge problem with Clary Fray.Why I don’t like Clary Fray:
• She's..."
i completely agree with you, and you've perfectly explained it. Clary intensely annoys me and gets on my nerves. She selfish and arrogant. She obsesses over jace wayyyyyy to much, and she throws simon around like a piece of meat. Like seriously, in heavenly fire, simon was trying to talk to clary and she totally shuts him down. She got into a relationship with simon, when she knew she wasn't attracted to him, only to break his heart. She acts likes she knows everything. Like, girl, calm you're face!
Jace: Hey i'm heading out
Clary: I'm coming with you
jace: Clary, i'm literally only going to the supermarket.
Clary: I'm coming with you.
*arrives at the grocery store*
Clary: Ugh, jace this is so boring, why would you bring me here?
im just sitting here at six in the morning after spending a good night not sleeping & reading other people talk shit about clary, & boy i've never felt so understood in my whole Reading journey. this is not a thing but i'm speaking it into existence.my disliking for clary starts right at the first book. i read the first like & instantly knew i was going to have issues with her; even though there was a certain point in the books where i actually considered the possibility of trying to understand her & her character better, & believe me when i tell you i tried, but i couldn't do it. i came up with one thing i could somewhat forgive her for, & that was the lack of shadowhunter training she received, therefore not knowing what she's doing every five secondsㅡ but aside from that, i found nothing that could somewhat justify her clingy & extremely infuriating attitudes & behaviours towards other characters.
i have yet to read city of heavenly fire, but from city of glass onward she became even worse. i had hope that there would be some kind of character development that would somehow make her stop rushing into situations & expecting people to constantly reassure her that what she's doing is right, while agreeing with her & congratulating her for being this "courageous" young woman. when in reality, she never analyses the situations & the harm they can cause. & when she does do that, it's after the whole problem has happened. after she's spent three days sulking in her room & wondering why jace hasn't called or texted.
i wasn't going to bring this up, & i also wasn't going to keep hammering on because i intend to sleep at some point, but now that we're here. she depends too much on jace. it's always jace. for Everything. & she's always following him & making him do things for her, but the One time he asks her to do something she snaps. "you don't own me" "you can't make me ㅡ". i just don't understand.
in conclusion, isabelle for president.
The thing with her that bothered me is that her personality ain’t terrible. In any other story her character would have been fine. But in this world was bigger than she was, there was more going on than her own problems, and her reaction of being put in the middle of a new world etc was wrong. She just did whatever. But she had nothing to survive on yet. It was weird how she just jumped from problem to problem for pretty selfish reasons without bothering about the consequences. A whining character is not all that annoying but she always got upset for the wrong reasons. And frankly took the help she had and needed for granted. She knew she was special and powerful but she didn’t use it like she could.
I really hate her for doing what she wants to do and everyone has to cover for her.
Maddie wrote: "I understand some of the comments that people have posted here... but has anyone read Cassie's post about Clary? It says:Look, it’s okay if you don’t like Clary. Characters are like real people: t..."
lmao if she were a boy i'd still hate her
probably.
tmi is one of the few books I've read lately that have a character like that that is more than someone for the mc to beat up and step over. I've been reading less lately and also recently I've been reading childish wierdos and perverted wierdos(I didn't like them either the side characters were much better) and also sophie foster(omg I hate her).
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You've literally been speaking my mind on the topic of Clary Fray