Doctor Who: The Library of Carsus discussion
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I like that "dope-slapped"!Yes, I feel like Moffat's gotten himself stuck in a rut. Missy? Really? She doesn't do anything for me and I really wish she'd really die this time. (How many times have the Daleks killed the 'Master' btw?) I was disappointed with her showing up ... sigh.
What is it about the Jane Austin joke? I think it went straight over my head.
I like Kate Stewart. I wonder how she'd do with Kadiatu ...
Snake man ... I kept waiting for some kind of late 70s early 80s skating track to start up. LOL I spent more time wondering how the actor was rolling around the set than what the actual character's purpose was. I do think it's cool that we have a new alien species to add to the list though.
Maybe Daleks are just a tad to obvious to go hunting high and low for a guy who doesn't want to be found? Then again, there was that guy at the end of the medieval scene who did the same job ...
The citadel scene ... it took me the second viewing to realize that the doors, and the city itself, is from the first Dalek serial. I was, I admit, delighted. (Probably the same doors they used for the bio-pic?) It was a nice use of Who history, though I have seen folks who think Who is getting a little too self referential.
I do like the cliffhanger and found myself comparing it to the one in Genesis (which BBCA showed Sunday morning). What would you do in such a situation? I would have thought that Davros was a fixed point in history at this point, so killing him would not be a good idea. Pointing a gun at a kid isn't really a nice way to end an episode, but, by the same token, the Doctor is a harder character these days and as a friend pointed out, a good deal more mature and sure of himself ...
I think another viewing might be a good idea and some more contemplation.
Yep you got that right about soooo many things going on. Some good some bad some eeh.Snake man aka Colony Sarff was indeed silly. I too was wondering what they used to roll him around. In-Line roller skates? One of those new segue type things that doesn't have a tall steering column? Or some kind of old fashioned technique of the actor being on a radio controlled rolling platform? AH it is one of those new platform only segue platform things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1XZj... (shown around 1:47)
I know from season previews that Clara survives (she is in other stories) and most likely Missy, it is hard to really kill Missy/Master
The Jane Austin joke is that in several scenes where we see Clara being a teacher, she is giving the same Jane Austin lecture.It may have started as a way to show the gap of time, a year has passed and she has a new class, but it comes across as all she does is teach a Jane Austin course or has gotten confused with all the time travel and is just doing the same lecture over and over again, like 'Groundhog's day'.
Yes, I was waiting for snake guy to pull off the cloak and reveal roller skates!
my thing is the cliffhanger is all based on stuff Moffat himself has shown us is no big deal: killing Missy and Clara ( we've done both things a couple times) and blowing up the Tardis.
So, not only is Moffat repeating/ripping off himself, but he's doing it with things that generate very little suspense.
Interesting idea about Davros being a set point in time?
Also will forgive Moffat a lot if he actually goes ahead and kills Davros.
He loses points if the scene with the Doctor is what inspires him to create the Daleks and we create a big time loop where the Doctor is the boogyman and created his own arch-foe.
Long-term fans, own most available episodes from Hartnell through to current. 2 sons have stopped watching, being so disappointed in the writing. Husband was fed up with this one, saying, "Daleks again? Really?" And even I am sick and tired of Clara. She worked well with Matt Smith. Not so with Capaldi, who needs new companions, or at least one with more to do. Clara should have been left in her old age, happy with her memories. As for Missy? Sigh. I've been a feminist longer than I've been a Who-vian, but she isn't being given that much to do. I did like her reference to having been friends with the Doctor since "He was a little girl," to tie in with the previously-unknown ability of Time Lords to change sex with regeneration.
I'm still hoping for a reason to keep watching the new episodes, but increasingly I'm glancing over at the collection of previous seasons WHILE I'm watching this one, and that's never a good sign.
Let me start with: I like Missy. I'm having a few problems with Missy being the Master, who is my utter fave, but I'll adjust as always. I think Capaldi is even better than previous Doctors in the Master/Doc relationship - probably a personal preference, even though Capaldi isn't my fave Doc (yet).
When watching this the first time, that scene from Journey's End kept going through my head "The man who runs away, never looking back - out of shame" or similar. That's really resonates here.
Becci wrote: "Let me start with: I like Missy. I'm having a few problems with Missy being the Master, who is my utter fave, but I'll adjust as always. I think Capaldi is even better than previous Doctors in the..."
I'm the same way with Missy. I love her to pieces (hopefully not my pieces) but was really ticked when it was first mentioned she was the Master. I would have rather she be The Rani, but what is done is done.
CaptKirk42 Classic Whovian wrote: "Becci wrote: "Let me start with: I like Missy. I'm having a few problems with Missy being the Master, who is my utter fave, but I'll adjust as always. I think Capaldi is even better than previous ..."
Then when the bring the Rani back, they make her a him to even things out.
I think making the Master into Missy is Mofatt testing the waters to see if they could do a female Doctor.
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I think making the Master into Missy is Mofatt testing the waters to see if they could do a female Doctor. "
I though Moffat was actually thumbing his nose at the fans by making the Master female, but I don't have a favorable view of Moffat right at the moment. Then Hell Bent happened and now I'm not sure what to think. Does this mean Romana could be male too? Is s/he/xe floating out there somewhere in the multi/universe just waiting in the wings?
Lori S. wrote: "Travis wrote: "Then when the bring the Rani back, they make her a him to even things out.I think making the Master into Missy is Mofatt testing the waters to see if they could do a female Doctor. ..."
yep I also think Mofatt was testing the waters for a female Doctor... and he was thumbing his nose at the fans at the same time.
As for Romana I heard from people who follow the audio books that she returned to Gallifrey during the pre Time War era, so she was probably there when the Doctor hid Gallifrey in the pocket universe.
CaptKirk42 Classic Whovian wrote: "Lori S. wrote: "Travis wrote: "Then when the bring the Rani back, they make her a him to even things out.I think making the Master into Missy is Mofatt testing the waters to see if they could do a..."
How is creating Missy thumbing his nose at the fans?
I don't get that.
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I don't get that."
There have been times when I think Moffat's actions have been quite deliberate when it comes to dealing with fandom and what people in fandom would like to see ...
So, it's time for a new Doctor, right? What's happened almost every time since 2005? Certain segments of fandom start advocating for a female Doctor. (Actually, I think this goes back to the 80s.) Instead of outright giving way to this change in format, the Grand Toffee (as a friend calls him) starts mucking about with other characters to see how they'll be received. Thus: Missy (who's characterization is so far off from the Master that I think she should really be a whole new, separate character).
I personally don't like Missy. I'd rather watch Anthony Ainley in the role, or even, dare I say, Eric Roberts. However, I did like the Commander from The Day of the Doctor & Hell Bent and am now more comfortable with the idea of gender fluidity among the Timelords. As long as the character is consistent across the board, I do think it'll work, but only if Moffat keeps his bloody silliness to a minimum. And he totally forgets the end of Curse of the Fatal Death, while we're at it.
Lori S. wrote: "Travis wrote: "How is creating Missy thumbing his nose at the fans?I don't get that."
There have been times when I think Moffat's actions have been quite deliberate when it comes to dealing with ..."
My problem with Missy is she's the female version of the John Simms Master and he was pretty crap.
The actress is better at the role than Simms was, but it's still a sad shadow of what the Master should be.
Plus, as a test of 'could a female Doctor work?', the answer is not if Moffat writes the Doctor like he writes the Master.
Mod
This exactly.
PS I still don't see any of this as Moffat thumbing his nose at the fans.It just feels to me like uneven writing, with the occasional taking the piss on Russell Davies.
I think he enjoys messing with fandom, but more in a gleeful 'oh, this'll create a million new fan pic stories and cause at least one message board to melt' way.
and to be honest, it keeps us on our toes.
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Lori S. wrote: "My point is that he keeps dancing around the issue rather than facing it head on. I get that teasing keeps the fun up, but once in a while it would be nice if someone would give a concrete "yes/no"..."But, in some cases, they don't know.
Who casting can turn on a dime. Patterson Joesph, a black actor was on the short list to replace David Tennant, when that Smith kid came along.
Plus, the production team floats the idea of a lady Doctor and half the internet loses their minds with rage, so I can understand them being skittish.
Or Moffatt may be one of those people who thinks the Doctor should be male, but to say that out loud means the other half of the internet loses their mind with rage...
I personally think with the right actress and writer, a lady Doctor could be awesome, but I don't think Moffatt's the guy to pull that off.
He is so aware/self conscious that Missy is a girl and it's obvious that he's not writing for the Master, he's writing for the Lady Master.
That won't work.
I'm content to wait for the guy after Moffatt to do it and he can turn the Rani into an Asian guy or the Meddling Monk into the Meddling Nun for all I care, as long as they cast a good actor to do it.
Here there be spoilers...(said he, in a pirate voice for no reason):
The good:
Peter Capaldi is still so good as the Doctor.
Kate Stewart and UNIT being competent.
A room full of Daleks
Nice use of Who history
Messing with history by introducing 'dude' into the language three centuries early
Clara was not annoying and I kind of like the Jane Austin running gag
Missy
The bad:
Snake man: what was the point? If Davros has a planet full of Daleks, why hire/create snake man?
One too many gags in the medieval area scene.
Missy still feeling she has to announce loudly "I'm a girl and I'm crazy!"
Having the humanoid Dalek agents having eyestalks poking out of their foreheads.
The guy who spent a year showing us what happens if you blow up the Tardis using blowing up the Tardis as his cliffhanger...?
The guy who spent a year pulling the Doctor out of his 'Am I a good man?' mope throwing him right back into it five minutes later?
Trying to show us things are bad by killing the Master, when he treated killing the Master as a trivial thing in the first five minutes of the episode.
Now, this is only part one and the beginning of the season, so I have faith that half my 'bad' list will be dealt with/explained in a way that gets them taken off the list, but while I enjoyed this episode a lot, there is still that faint undercurrent that Moffat is running out of steam.