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Female, and non-default, characters in Fantasy
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As far as female fantasy authors....I don't know. I'm trying to think of any that I've read. I certainly have never shied away from a fantasy book because it was a female author, but certainly not many come to mind. The only two that immediately come to mind that I've read (Robin McKinley and Cherryh J. Carolyn), I didn't like the only book I read of each so I never read any others.
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Catherynne M. Valente
And I loved Cherryh J. Carolyn's Merovingen Nights shared universe Anthology. Emma Bullhas been a favorite for years.
Not Grimdark, but exquisite fantasy writers.
Anne Rice must count as a grimdark author. Many shy away from what they call her "descriptive language" but I always thought this descriptive side of her books was so great because she used it to draw the reader into a whole other world. I don't know how it is to be a vampire, but when Anne Rice wrote it I almost felt like I knew.Vampire Lestat is definitely one of my favorite books, with all its philosophical and life-questioning parts.
Chris: The female author we spoke about in another thread was Robin Hobb, so maybe you could give her a try? :)
Nnedi Okorafor is a dark fantasy writer as well, but I have yet to read her. I'm planning to get her book "Who fears death" after the one I'm reading now.
Brittany wrote: "I have often also thought that maybe tropes are so much easier to spot with the female characters because there are so few of them compared to male. There are plenty of rags to expert assassin, my ..."HAHAHA, that trope XD
You're definitely right! This is also why stereotypes and tokens are so much worse with minorities - they get so little screen time, why must it be wasted with tropes?
Tropes and stereotypes aren't all bad. They can be used sensibly and bring out shades of a story we didn't consider. For instance I read this article about Misadventures of Awkward Black Girl and how it uses the Awkward Girl trope in a positive way. (http://jannagnoelle.com/2015/09/14/ch...)
There are lot of opportunities to use tropes positively.
However, with female and racially/sexually diverse characters, they're rarely used that way. They're used because the author doesn't know how to write them like real people. (And that's a problem.)
I've not read Prince Lestat, but I'm planning to read on in the series, ah ... soon. Very soon <.< (Not soon.)
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This is topic which has been dicussed for ages on goodreads this a list of books with strong female characters. Some you will agree with but you will disagree with.https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...
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As for the link to the sci fi list, I am also not liking Hunger Games, Divergent and something from Stephanie Meyer are the top 3. Maybe I need more coffee and/or sleep.
Thats the problem, fantasy has so many sub genres these days.
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She's already on my to-read list. She has been for a while. I have the first Farseer book on my list to try her out.
Mark wrote: "This is topic which has been dicussed for ages on goodreads this a list of books with strong female characters. Some you will agree with but you will disagree with.
https://www.goodreads.com/list/..."
Cool list. Nice find.
Mark wrote: "Thats the problem, fantasy has so many sub genres these days."
Totally agree. I'd never even heard of 'grimdark' until I posted in regular Fantasy/Sci-Fi group asking about fantasy that was darker and somebody suggested this group.
I think it hurts the genres to sub-genre them out so much. Why can't we all just be fantasy and like the ones that are a bit darker rather than having a sub-genre of "grimdark fantasy"?
I personally still lump all fantasy together in my head.
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Honestly, I'd rather over qualify things than under qualify. The list that Mark shared is where everything is lumped in together and it as I mentioned above, I had issues with it.
I believe a bit part of my needing to label books into sub-genres is that I spend 50 hours a week doing data analysis. If things aren't specific enough and lumped together, the usefulness of the data is greatly diminished. Part of it might be mild OCD too. Or lack of sleep. Or being a crotchety old man. Or all the above.
Chompa wrote: "Totally out of our genre, but "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" was a book with a very interesting and strong female character - Lisbeth Salander. I've not read the entire trilogy, but I did enjoy ..."Are we talking non-fantasy? :-)
In which case I will also add Jillian Flynn. I know that Gone Girl was hugely controversial, but Sharp Objects was the best debut of dark, broken, yet enduring female characters I had read for years. Overall, she writes unique, unlikeable, and dark characters.
Chompa wrote: "Labeling books by genre/sub-genre is a slippery slope. I love it in that if I want to read some steampunk it is easy to find. In your case - "Hey, if that's what you want look at Grimdark." Hones..."
Chompa, sometimes I think that you're inside my head.
All that, plus the "this list is everything that is wrong with "women in fantasy lists". There are a few good books in there, like Mistborn, but they might as well have thrown the twilight for all the vampire academy books! And Matilda? It's by far one of my favorite childhood books, but does it even qualify as fantasy?
Well, maybe I need another cup of coffee too :-)
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That is really not a good idea to let me tramp around inside your head. I'm sure to make a mess of things. Then there's the therapy bills to think of too.
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Hones..."
That's why "tags" are the best way to really categorize things like books. You can tag all things they have some 'fit' for.
The problem...is that our 'brain' doesn't necessarily work that way. It would be nice if it did, though.
Trying not to repeat myself or anyone else here, I want to address the issue about non default characters. Ever since I read Katherine Addison's The Goblin Emperor, I am becoming interested in reading fantasy with non human characters as lead. Mind you that Maia, the lead character in there, was still a male, but at least he was minority (born from the union of an elf and a goblin), and subjected alot to racism. It was rather (re)fresh(ing) instead reading about another, well, Kvothe.
Speaking of female writers writing female characters, have you read Naomi Novik's works? Uprooted has a female lead, and Naomi's take on a gender&age-blind airforce flying on top of dragons and the dragons themselves in the Temeraire series are pretty different take. One might argue that Agnieszka in Uprooted is still considered a manic pixie witch girl aka tropey though.
I'd love to have more female characters that are not pretty (and stays that way), non-brooding and is not a badass fighter/assassin. And, funny too. I need funny, witty female characters but still can kick ass in her own way.
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As for non-pretty females - it's been five years since I read Best Served Cold, but I think Monza was pretty messed up after being thrown from the battlements.
While too often the male heroes are written as handsome, it isn't too uncommon that they are less than pleasing to the eye. Glotka wasn't exactly a beauty.
Talking about non-pretty protagonists, I just remembered the "Empress" by Karen Miller, though I am not sure if it qualifies as grimdark. By the time she arrives in the city, Hekat is pretty messed up and scarred, not really strong by usual standards, pretty resourceful and utterly ruthless. It's more or less the regular "slave/street urchin to king/mage/whatever" story and it does get progressively worse, but the first book was pretty ok in my opinion.
Though it's not a book and not grimdark, I must point out the avatar the last airbender series and it's sequel series, Korra. Man, talk about cool female characters. I get the feeling the creators like making female characters more than male, because in both series there's an overweight of female characters for sure.
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The male characters were still great imo, though. not just comic relief. Zuko, Aang and Sokka were all great characters, as well with Iroh. Tenzin served an enormous purpose for the story and Mako was definitely given import. (Though he was a douche the first two seasons.)Even Bolin became pretty great in the last two seasons! I was so relieved after the way they treated him in the first two seasons. (By 'they' I mean the writers)
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I really hope they do another series.
The only insufferable character they did was Katara. Damn it, by the end I just wanted her to shut up. And they gave her so much character development time that could have been spent better on other characters.But yeah, if they do other stuff I'll be on it like a drug addict unexpectedly finding crack in their pocket.
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I agree that Katara was kind of annoying.
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This week the subject is Tough Traveling: A Lady and Her Sword, which I thought was perfect for this discussion thread. You can check out the post here. http://bibliosanctum.com/2015/09/24/t...
As for authors, I always recommend Jacqueline Carey. Her Kushiel and Namaah series are fantastic. Coincidentally, many of the MCs are female characters. The series has a strong sexual focus, but not in the manner you'd think.Malazan Book of the Fallen features many strong female characters. Felisen, Apsalar, Badalle, Tattersail, Lostara Yil, and Tavore are a handful that come to mind.
I can't stand Kushiel Dart, but I agree with Tattersail in the Malazan book (at least book 1) being a great female character.
Chompa wrote: "I just finished Aftermath and it was heavy with strong female characters."Ever read Chuck Wendig's blog? He's a huge feminist :)
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Chompa wrote: "That explains a lot. Wendig (with Disney's OK, I'm certain) also introduced what I assume is the first gay character in Star Wars. I'm actually surprised I've not heard an uproar regarding it."Ha, awesome. Hope it's not a stereotypical sort of gay character. How was the book in general?
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The gay character was a former Imperial Loyalty Officer and it was only revealed he was gay when propositioned by a woman. In other words, his actions/personality/etc was "normal". Personally, his was my favorite character both before and after the revelation.
Overall the book was very solid. And a bit different for a Star Wars novel. Here's my review of it. https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Thanks, Britanny. I'll definitely need to save more time in the future to read Lois McMaster Bujold's books.
Interestingly, most of my favorite authors are female. I'm not big into the romance side of fantasy, though a little is fun. And I don't like the bitchy.....so I guess some will fall in the strong female catagory doing what males are doing....hmmm not really, but most are just trying to survive. ???? Or something.Jennifer Roberson-Karavans, Sword-Dancer...
P. C. Hodgell-
God Stalk
Robin McKinley-
The Blue Sword (young adult)
Robin Hobb-
Assassin's Apprentice, Ship of Magic(not as many female characters in her books, though)
Melanie Rawn-
Dragon Prince
C.S. Friedman-
The Coldfire Trilogy: Black Sun Rising/ When True Night Falls/ Crown of Shadows
The last is as close to grimdark as I have read for female authors anyway, but that is one reason I joined up...to get a little more experience.
;D
Angus Watson's Iron Age trilogy has several strong female characters worth checking out.
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Ha...http://www.fantasybookcafe.com/2014/0...
Wherein C. S. Friedman discusses her choice of pen name.
Grimdark Fantasy
Books mentioned in this topic
Assassin's Apprentice (other topics)The Coldfire Trilogy: Black Sun Rising/ When True Night Falls/ Crown of Shadows (other topics)
Karavans (other topics)
Sword-Dancer (other topics)
God Stalk (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
P.C. Hodgell (other topics)Jennifer Roberson (other topics)
C.S. Friedman (other topics)
Robin McKinley (other topics)
Robin Hobb (other topics)
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Romantic plot MC (Hunger games, Divergent etc.)
Strong-female-is-strong-female and isn't it cool that she's doing the same thing that men are doing?
Bitchy woman.
Obviously this is nowhere near representative.
Why are there so few good female characters in the fantasy genre? Why do we not read more female authors? Do you have any recommendations for either? How about writers/characters of race?
In the end I don't think the excuse that much fantasy is inspired by midieval Europe, and thus can't be more diverse, holds waters. First, it's a fantasy, so you can do whatever you like with gender and race equality, and second, even midieval Europe was more diverse than the fantasy stories we see in the mainstream.