WE ARE OPEN - WEEK FIVE ~ A DIVISION OF THE SPOILS - September 28th - October 4th>BOOK ONE: 1945 - Section Two - Journeys Into Uneasy Distances - Chapter Four (pg. 153-178) - Chapter Five (pg. 178-188) -- (No spoilers, please)

[Jill]

Hello Everyone,

For the weeks of September 28th - October 4th, we are reading BOOK ONE: 1945 -Section Two - Journeys Into Uneasy Distances - Chapter Four (pg 153-pg 178 - Chapter Five (pg. 178-188 ~ A Division of the Spoils -Book IV,(pg. 153-188).

The fifth week's reading assignment is:

WEEK FIVE- September 28th ~ PART ONE: Section Two ~ Journeys Into Uneasy Distances (pg. 153-188))

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book was kicked off on August 31st.

We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, local bookstore or on your Kindle. Make sure to pre-order now if you haven't already. This weekly thread will be opened up on September 28th.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Jill will be leading this discussion and back-up will be Bentley.

Welcome,

~Bentley

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

by Paul Scott

REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.

Notes:

It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.

Citations:

If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.

If you need help - here is a thread called the Mechanics of the Board which will show you how to cite books:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2...

Introduction Thread:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Table of Contents and Syllabus

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Glossary

Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Bibliography

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author used in his research or in his notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations. No self promotion, please.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...


Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - SPOILER THREAD

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

by Paul Scott

[Jill]

Chapter Overview and Summary

Rowan thinks back about Sarah Layton when he met her on the train in the company of Count Bronowsky. He was quite taken with her. She and the Count discussed a man named Merrick and Rowan wondered if it was the same Merrick that he knew. After some conversation, it appears that it is although Rowan denies knowing him. They discuss his mistake about the guilt of Hari Kumar and how he redeemed himself by joining the Army and attempting to save Teddie Bingham's life, suffering horrible injuries in the process.

Rowan is to accompany Ahmed Kasim and his mother to tell their father that the younger brother, Sayed, who had been imprisoned for fighting with the INA, is being released from prison but will be forced to stay under restriction with the Nawab. The Count discusses
the Princely States such as that of the Nawab will suffer badly when the British leave and he is trying to assist the people of Mirat to prepare an advantageous position when they no longer have the protection of the Crown.

He also goes on to explain the Daphne Manners/Hari Kumar/ Ronald Merrick situation. The Count believes that Merrick probably liked Daphne as much as he could like any woman but that his impression is that Merrick doesn't like women and that his relationship with Sarah Layton is a mistake on her part.

Rowan talks briefly to Sarah on the telephone and she shares some strange information about Perron.

[Jill]

Discussion

I find Count Bronowsky a very intriguing character but keep changing my mind about his role in the overall scheme of things. What are your thought?

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Welcome back Jill - I think you have come across one of the prime manipulators of the series. I like the use of words - overall scheme of things (smile).

[Jill]

And it may be as simple as the fact that he is a White Russian in exile who found a place to gain power (or at least behind the scenes power/manipulation). If I remember correctly, certain of his proclivities led him to the Nawab's circle and once established, why not stay on. His sources of information cross lines between Indian and British which in my opinion, makes him rather powerful. How will he use this information.....or is he just a "Greek chorus" who is providing the reader with interesting tid-bits of information about thepolitical environment?

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

I guess we will read on (lol)

[Jill]

Why is Rowan playing it so cagey about knowing Merrick? He is well aware of the Kumar situation and the fact that even the upper echelon of the police department felt that Merrick had made a mistake regarding Hari's guilt.

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

You know I could never figure that out either. Maybe some of the other members can engage us on this. I thought that was rather duplicitous of Rowan and I thought less of him from that point on. In fact, I ended up rooting for Perron after that situation and a couple of others. I almost thought that Rowan was a bit of a wuss (and still do) - and that he would sacrifice love with Sarah and honor with a true friend to not jeopardize his almighty job - whatever that happened to be. He did have a high ranking position in so much as he interacted with high ranking folks who demanded I imagine a lot of loyalty and confidence but I could never figure out the extent that he went with that. He was almost impressed with himself and what he knew and others did not know or could only guess. I think he was pitch perfect in some instances and one sticks in my mind but I cannot remember where in this book or one previously this occurred so I will keep it to myself (doing a Rowanism here myself) - do not want to do a Martin either (only joking Martin - lol)

[Martin]

Ha, Bentley.

Merrick is a little toxic, no? In the class/religion defined British society occupying the caste/religion defined subcontinent, who you know is of significance, not only for what your connections can do for you, but for what who you know says about your.

I suppose Merrick is the equivalent of a dalit (untouchable).

Can anyone think of a character championing Merrick?

Ok, that's asking a bit much even from a made-up personage.

How about this: is there a character in any of the four volumes comfortable around Merrick? Isn't he the manifestation of an uneasy distance?

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Merrick is the devil incarnate - a very disturbed and haunted individual - almost a tragic figure if he was not also so malevolent with his intentions.

In the first book - sometimes and only sometimes and very very little did I feel sorry for him - as the series has gone on - with Hari and how he reacted with Daphne and everything else in between up to the present point in time - I see him as aggressive, extremely talented and intelligent; though a vicious and a demented sociopath; who has other serious issues to boot including abuse of prisoners (and I will say no more).

Also, he takes advantage of the weak or those he perceives as being weak or without options in any given circumstance where he can laud over them his position and power.

I could never understand Rowan's dealing with Merrick as he did; considering what he did know. Never. Perron would never have stomached it.

Martin - I could not agree with you more. But as you go on and have learned in the previous assignments (I know you have read the series already) - Rowen plays both sides probably because of his position or what he thinks his position demands. Maybe his position did demand some of these stances in those days.

[Kressel]

I'm much more sympathetic to Rowan than you are, Bentley. You say Perron wouldn't have stomached it. But he didn't accept a high enough rank to ever face these kinds of compromises. So perhaps Rowan has placed himself in a better position to make a difference for Indians.

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Perron knew the score and what he would have to endure and even though he was entitled to a commission - he decided that he could not stomach it and was his own man. He did what he had to do to fulfill his duty but was not part of the games that were being played and certainly did everything he could to get out from under Merrick.

I don't see how Rowan made any difference for Indians. He ends up helping Hari by default but did not really own up to knowing him when he came face to face.

I am not sympathetic to Rowan and I will leave it at that.

[Jill]

Rowan knows so much more than he lets on and is very careful to whom he discloses any of his knowledge. Is that part of his job whatever it really is? His interaction with the Maharajah as it applies to his uncle is rather interesting but was not reported to his superiors. I am rather confused about his purpose for playing both sides against the middle.

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Jill I think you hit the nail on the head with Rowan - at first I liked him a lot and then I saw that back and forth which appeared to be slightly duplicitous.

[Jill]

One of the Count's goals as an adviser to the Nawab is to instill the idea that Mirat and the rest of the princely states will be abandoned to the new government of India with the withdrawal of the British. The Nawab is depending on the treaty, which will become invalid, to protect his little kingdom. But the Nawab believes that since the princely states provided men and money to Britain for two wars, the British are pledged to protect them. If this attitude is universal in the princely states, the new government of India, whatever it may be, is going to have its hands full. Comments?

[Martin]

What struck me about the principality and how it fits into the emerging post colonial giant we call India, is that on the one hand it represents a vestige of the subcontinent that as Faulkner would said isn't dead, it isn't even passed.

Throughout the millennia, what is now India was a patchwork of principalities, and the like, governed by a Muslim, or Hindu prince, with all the shifting power, alliances, interests that you could imagine in such a seething setting.

We know that the 565 (?) principalities not a part of British India were swallowed by the emergent modern nation.

But the 29 states and seven unions that comprise India today are still a synthesis in progress, having added the latest state in 2014.

Any who, here are a couple of Wikipedia links of interest:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_...

[Jill]

Thanks, Martin. We also have a good description of the princely states in the Glossary, post #62.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

They were little islands of autocracy within the larger political picture and certainly went their own way without much interference from the British, so I can understand how the Nawab felt that things would remain the same even when independence came.

[Jill]

The Count is a very perceptive man and has seen something in Merrick that others may have not. When he relates the Daphne/Hari story ot Perron, he mentions Merrick's obsession with Hari. From his observations, he has concluded that Merrick is not attracted to women at all. Had you come to the same conclusion? That obsession could have been interpreted as just a hatred for Indians, especially well-educated Anglicized young men but the Count thinks not.

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

I did not see that entirely at first - but then the Count is very perceptive and he had other means of finding out Merrick’s whereabouts and more than likely had him followed and observed to boot. I think that Merrick hated Hari on many levels - he was a spurned suitor because of Hari, Hari had gone to an upper class English school and was part of the society and class at a school that Merrick could only dream of being accepted at and never was, Hari had inbred class from his English experiences, Merrick did not although he was what you might call a self made man. Hari had been intimate with a white woman and not any white woman but the white woman who had spurned his proposal.

[Jill]

I would agree that Merrick hated Hari on many levels....especially the fact that he was English educated and of the class to which Merrick aspired. But I also think that the Count is in a position to know about Merrick's sexual preferences due to his own history. Just a guess at this point.