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A Division of the Spoils (The Raj Quartet, #4)
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HISTORY OF SOUTHERN ASIA > WE ARE OPEN - WEEK THREE ~ A DIVISION OF THE SPOILS - September 14th - September 20th>BOOK ONE: 1945 - Section One - An Evening At The Maharanees - Chapter Three ( (pg. 75-111) - (No spoilers, please)

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message 1: by Jill (last edited Sep 05, 2015 10:59AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jill Hutchinson (bucs1960) Hello Everyone,

For the weeks of September 14th - September 20th, we are reading BOOK ONE: 1945 -Section One - An Evening At The Maharanees - Chapter Two Three ~ A Division of the Spoils -Book IV,(pg. 75-111).

The third week's reading assignment is:

WEEK THREE- August 31st ~ PART ONE: Section One ~ An Evening At the Maharanees (pg. 75-111)

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book was kicked off on August 31st.

We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, local bookstore or on your Kindle. Make sure to pre-order now if you haven't already. This weekly thread will be opened up on September 14th.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Jill will be leading this discussion and back-up will be Bentley.

Welcome,

~Bentley

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

A Division of the Spoils (The Raj Quartet, #4) by Paul Scott by Paul Scott Paul Scott

REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.

Notes:

It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.

Citations:

If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.

If you need help - here is a thread called the Mechanics of the Board which will show you how to cite books:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2...

Introduction Thread:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Table of Contents and Syllabus

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Glossary

Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Bibliography

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author used in his research or in his notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations. No self promotion, please.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...


Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - SPOILER THREAD

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

A Division of the Spoils (The Raj Quartet, #4) by Paul Scott by Paul Scott Paul Scott


Jill Hutchinson (bucs1960) Chapter Overview and Summary

Perron returns home and finds the servants in hysterics. It appears that Purvis got a telegram and telephone call and went off the deep end, partially destroying the apartment. Perron breaks into the bathroom and finds Purvis with his wrists cut lying in the bath. The doctor is called and it appears that Purvis will live. The telegram states that he is being transferred, indicating that he will be a part of Operation Zipper.

Merrick takes Perron to his apartment for a drink and tells him the reason the Hari Kumar's name is taboo. He also tells Perron that he will now be assigned under Merrick's command

They go to Sarah's apartment to eat and find that Colonel Layton is there. He is going to talk to one of his NCOs who is now jailed for joining the Indian National Army but Merrick thinks it is a waste of time since he will be the one interrogating the man when he comes to trial. Perron returns to his billet and writes in his notebook his feelings about the relationship between Britain and India on this eve of independence.


Jill Hutchinson (bucs1960) I have a simple question. Why would Purvis try to kill himself due to the fact that he is being assigned to Operation Zipper?


Jill Hutchinson (bucs1960) Or is there something else that caused his actions that Scott may have alluded to?


Martin Zook | 615 comments I have a simple answer. In Perron's words (to Merrick):

"I think he'd just had enough."

Understandable under the circumstances already spelled out. Purvis - "not the most prepossessing chap," in Merrick's assessment - is by education an economist, who has cast about hither and yon, with no understanding of a method behind the madness. That we know.

Then comes the order to be attached to Zipper, not in some cushy digs, but with troops on the move in that swamp of tropic diseases, Malay. Maybe the attempt wasn't so mad after all.

Or, maybe what pushed him over the edge was a combination of the impaired judgment brought on by indulgence in the whiskey, in combination with the lack of empathy from whoever was on the other end of the phone line when Purvis called to protest that which is immutable: an order from a "superior" in the chain of command. They don't call it a chain for nothin'.


Martin Zook | 615 comments I have a simple answer, or rather Perron does:

"I think he'd just had enough."

Makes sense in light of what we know about Purvis already: In the words of Merrick, Purvis is, "Not the most prepossessing chap."

We know that his physical health is frail, as is his emotional. Professionally, he's trained as an economist. His rightful environment back in England would be in an office, or school, practicing the dismal science, based on the utterance of economists all around the world, "assume" (insert whatever is needed for what is to follow to make any sense at all).

Then Purvis receives the order to vacate his relatively plush digs to join a troop movement in Malay, the global petri dish for exotic and uncurable tropical maladies, from which Purvis already suffers.

Pour (pun intended) on the added influences (that pun too) of the whiskey (think impaired judgment), and the lack of response from the immutable chain of command when Purvis complains (it's not called a chain for nothin'), and what else is a guy to do?


Jill Hutchinson (bucs1960) He seemed that he had a form of "battle fatigue" (remember when they used to use that word?). Tired of being in the army and as you said, he would rather be doing that for which he was educated. Tired of the whole thing. He seemed a very fragile person prior to his attempted suicide from what little we learned about him. Another casualty of the war and the Raj.


Martin Zook | 615 comments I don't think that's what Scott intended, Jill; although you are well within your readers' rights to see that.

Purvis is a very metaphorical character, an idea with arms and legs. He's distressed about being in India, not unlike a fish out of water. The primary difference is that it's the fish's respiratory system that gets distressed, where an Englishman's digestive track gets out of sorts. Very appropriate.


Jill Hutchinson (bucs1960) I use the term "battle fatigue" pretty generically and I think it fits with what you said in post #6. It is the military battle (not combat) that has fatigued him to the breaking point. Plus that famous British "tummy" problem is no help!!

Merrick's hatred of Indians, focused on Hari Kumar comes to the forefront again when he tells Perron that giving an Indian a cricket bat doesn't make him a gentleman. He acts as if he does not see the end of the Raj approaching but I have to assume he does. If he doesn't, he is more disturbed than I already think he is.


message 10: by Martin (last edited Sep 16, 2015 05:24AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Martin Zook | 615 comments As if Merrick, who is painfully aware that he is several steps below gentleman and who himself is unlikely to ever have held a cricket bat, would know what makes a gentleman.

Again, the clash of classes and races.


message 11: by Jill (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jill Hutchinson (bucs1960) Let's mention the INA which we haven't talked about except briefly in relation of Sayed Kasim. The idea of the INA, while loathsome to the British, is a more complicated matter for Indians. Are they heroes, fighting against the tyranny of the Monarchy, or are they villains, traitors to peace and a future of Indian independence?


message 12: by Jill (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jill Hutchinson (bucs1960) The Glossary at the link below gives a good overview of the INA and the collaboration with the Axis. See post #20.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...


Kressel Housman | 917 comments Jill wrote: "He acts as if he does not see the end of the Raj approaching but I have to assume he does. If he doesn't, he is more disturbed than I already think he is."

He probably sees it coming, but he's going to angle his way to the top. That's what he does in every situation. He looks out for #1.


Martin Zook | 615 comments On the INA, it was a manifestation of events in the control of the Brits, beyond their influence, and both within their control and beyond.

The INA resulted in reaction to the Brits' unwillingness to let go of their child India. It should have happened before WW II. It's not like they hadn't let go of colonies in the past. Even moderate leaders of India, and more enlightened Brits (see Scott's Brit administrator White from the first volume) found the Brits on the wrong side of history.

On the other hand, the Brits were moving oh so slowly toward a goal that kept moving farther away the closer it got. It raised expectations that the Brits wouldn't meet.

The Brits were working against themselves, it seems to me.

To worsen the situation, the events of WW II overtook them, increasing the tensions they were creating.

Remember, through the administrator White in the first volume Scott offers the argument that by delaying beyond when independence should have been granted blame for the partition falls squarely on the Brits.

We certainly see that in the change in thinking on partitioning during Kasim's three years in the slammer.


message 15: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Sep 17, 2015 03:26PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
(Talking about real history) - I think that Churchill had a lot to do with dragging their heels with India - he really did see it as a jewel and he thought that Gandhi was not respectful or even honoring the dignity of England or India for that matter - love Churchill but I think he got his personal love for India in the way as well as his personal enmity towards Gandhi.


message 16: by Jill (last edited Sep 17, 2015 08:07PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jill Hutchinson (bucs1960) There is no doubt that Churchill was against letting go of India and he was a dedicated believer that the British Empire (not just India) be kept intact.

Some of his comments about Gandhi were pretty pointed, calling him a "half-naked, seditious fakir". He noted ""the loss of India would mark and consummate the downfall of the British Empire" and that "that great organism would pass at a stroke out of life into history", and who had declared, "We have ' no intention of casting away that most truly bright and precious jewel in the crown of the King, which more than all our other Dominions and Dependencies constitutes the glory and strength of the British Empire,"

Did the majority of people agree with him? Or did they see the writing on the wall?


message 17: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Sep 17, 2015 09:49PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Very true - probably not his finest hour. I think a lot of folks who had gone to India and liked the good life there probably felt the same way unfortunately. Remember he held the fort for awhile.

Baldwin on India:
http://www.winstonchurchill.org/resou...

Churchill and India
Sarvepalli Gopal

During the ten months he spent in India as a young army officer, Winston Churchill saw little of the country except military barracks, polo grounds, and government houses. However, the views he formed of India then remained the basis of his policies throughout his political career. Britain was doing great work in India, and the Empire could last for ever with the Indian people having no right to think of freedom while they had the good fortune of living under British administration. He got to like Jawaharlal Nehru personally and made the best of a bad job in maintaining good relations with a free India, even if this was contrary to his set views. Churchill strongly believed that unless Mahatma Gandhi and his movement were crushed, India would be lost and the downfall of the British Empire consummated, just as he was convinced that the national interests of Britain required the removal of Stanley Baldwin. For Churchill, the loss of India would mean famine in Britain and the final ruin of Lancashire.

And also sad because I think the man was great - but not his finest hour

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/w...


message 18: by Jill (last edited Sep 18, 2015 05:36PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jill Hutchinson (bucs1960) Even the great stumble sometimes. Churchill may be my favorite person in recent history but the British were so used to imperialism that they didn't seem to see what was coming or ignored it. And I agree with Martin.....their continued reluctance to let go of India worked against them.

Susan shows her grasp of the situation when she, Perron, and Merrick are talking about the turnover of India.....the situation in India has become too emotional to be logical.....that if the hand-over is prolonged then the Indians will be glad to have the Britsh there to advise them but because it is logical it won't happen that way. I wonder if she also sees that the Indians themselves are badly divided?


message 19: by Jill (last edited Sep 19, 2015 06:37AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jill Hutchinson (bucs1960) Just a note to let the participants know that I will be off the grid, starting tomorrow and part of next week. Bentley will be backing me up. I appreciate him!!!


message 20: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
I often wonder what goes on in Susan's head these days or whether she really sees things the way they are or the way she wants them to be.


Kressel Housman | 917 comments I don't think Susan is capable of seeing ANYTHING as it is.


message 22: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Yes, for sure - she seems to have problems dealing with reality.


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