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One Man Against the World
PRESIDENTIAL SERIES
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WE ARE OPEN - WEEK ONE - PRESIDENTIAL SERIES: ONE MAN AGAINST THE WORLD - October 19th - October 25th - Author's Note and Chapter(s) One - Four - (1 - 42) - No Spoilers, please
Chapter Overview and Summary: Chapter 1: “A great, bad man”
Nixon, aka "Tricky Dick", thought himself to be a great statesman. He was untrustworthy and distrustful of others. He didn't care about domestic politics and felt that many foreign governments were funding the anti-war movement. He felt that "it was 'me against the world,'".
Chapter 2: “This is treason”
Nixon works toward election, using Vietnam as a black spot against the Humphrey campaign. LBJ considered the tactics Nixon used to be treasonous.
Chapter 3: “He was surrounded by enemies”
Nixon starts to build the team that would surround him during his Presidency, including H. R. Haldeman, John Mitchell, and Henry Kissinger.
Chapter 4: "He will let them know who is boss around here"
The Nixon administration begins. Nixon works to keep his war plans secret. Cambodia is secretly bombed.
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This is message 5 and these are the pre-discussion questions you should have taken a stab at - just jump right in.
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Message 5 - The Pre-Discussion Questions:
All, I am opening this thread as a way for all future recipients of the free book offer to post a brief intro here for your fellow readers of One Man Against the World - introduce yourself and indicate why you are interested in reading and discussing this book and tell us a little bit about yourself.
That way your fellow readers will get to know you "before we start posting about the book" and they feel comfortable interacting with you on these threads.
Remember Tim Weiner will be joining us so please make sure to follow the reading schedule weekly and stay within that week's reading assignment - it makes it a very enjoyable reading and discussion experience that way if you do not get ahead.
The books are going to be sent out around October 1st which gives you enough time to get your book without getting it too early.
Remember follow the schedule. And don't read ahead. Just read your required pages for the week and post and discuss.
Have another book in the background to pick up so you do not get ahead on this one.
We have thoroughly enjoyed having Tim with us in the past - and he is a very interactive author so post, post, post, ask questions on the Ask Tim thread and get ready for a great discussion.
So right now just post your intro etc. and say hello.
We will open the discussion to the book itself on October 19th - no earlier and no later.
Right now only introduce yourself here.
I. Hi I am xyz and from abc. I love history because of d and I am interested in this book and Nixon in general because of f.
Also try your hand at these pre discussion questions.
2. Tell us whether you were alive while Nixon was President and what did you think of him at the time and after.
3. If you were not alive when Nixon was President or just a little guy or gal at the time - what do you remember hearing about Nixon at the time from your parents and grandparents. Did this shape your perception of the man?
4. Do you think that Nixon should have been pardoned? Why or why not?
5. Do you think that Nixon was fairly treated? Why or why not?
6. Do you think that Nixon was a great, good, fair or bad president based upon how you feel before you read the book. Why? Failings/redeeming qualities?
Let us try to think about some of these answers before we begin our discussion and reading of the book to see if your impressions change after that or will they remain the same. Let us check back and find out.
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These are the folks we have not heard from:
Please introduce yourself and answer the above questions - thank you.
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50. John C - complete - South Carolina - Received Book
Teri wrote: "That was very surprising to me. He really tried to control things early. I'm sure his tenure as VP under Eisenhower gave him some early connections..."This is true, Teri. Nixon became quite valuable to Ike and even relied on him to consult with him on foreign policy. Nixon took trips to Latin America, Africa, Eastern Europe, and the Soviet Union.
Jill wrote: "Why it never came up is beyond me and that was a horrendous mistake since it may have defeated him if it had been made public."LBJ suspected, but he never had the proof, so he didn't "blow the whistle."
Lyndon Johnson (no photo)
I. Hey. I'm Andra Watkins from Charleston, South Carolina. While I won my 8th grade US history achievement award, I didn't really become interested in history until my early 30s. I read Undaunted Courage by Stephen Ambrose and never realized the Corps of Discovery were screwing their way across the continent. Imagine how much I might've paid attention in 8th grade!! I now read a lot of history for research in my day job.2. Tell us whether you were alive while Nixon was President and what did you think of him at the time and after.
I remember watching Nixon's resignation speech on television. I was four. I don't recall thinking anything about him at the time. The importance of the event didn't register, though I've replayed the look on his grainy face hundreds of times in my life.
3. If you were not alive when Nixon was President or just a little guy or gal at the time - what do you remember hearing about Nixon at the time from your parents and grandparents. Did this shape your perception of the man?
My parents were very protective of me as a child and never talked politics much until they joined an evangelical church after Nixon's time. They were both staunch Democrats when Nixon was President. Neither parent voted for him. My mother professed to vote for candidates because they were handsome. (Hey, at least she was honest about it.) My father never likes any candidate but always votes for someone. I probably inherited my orneriness regarding politics from him.
4. Do you think that Nixon should have been pardoned? Why or why not?
As someone else said above, I think the pardon was necessary to keep America moving beyond the Nixon affair. But I don't think it set a desirable precedent. America has never recovered from the damage the Nixon administration inflicted upon our political leaders. In fact, it's almost as if our leaders got together and agreed on one thing: be as crooked and dishonest as possible. I know there are exceptions, but almost every administration since Nixon has had some sort of scandal, engaged in a cover up, and lied about it. Some acts were worse than Nixon's. Yet, no one was forced to resign.
5. Do you think that Nixon was fairly treated? Why or why not?
The reward of ruthlessness is ruthless judgement by everyone with an opinion.
6. Do you think that Nixon was a great, good, fair or bad president based upon how you feel before you read the book. Why? Failings/redeeming qualities?
To me, anyone who wants to be President is flawed, meaning it may not be fair to answer the question. I believe he truly thought his misdeeds were acceptable because he was doing the best thing for the American people. And for himself.
Especially for himself.
I. Hi I am Nick, originally from Cleveland-ish, but I have lived all over. Currently reside in the DC area. I am a former military officer, and doctoral student. I have always been fascinated with history, and particularly like this topic, which examines one of our most embarassing political leaders, as well as the culture of an era (Vietnam, Civil Rights, Counterculture). Also try your hand at these pre discussion questions.
2. I was not alive during the Nixon presidency. My impression has largely been shaped by Rick Perlstein's excellent book Nixonland. This is the review I wrote for it: "In the early part of the book, you develop an unexpected sympathy for Richard Nixon (a man so poor that he had to wear his Navy uniform on a trip to beg Orange County plutocrats for help in a congressional race, because he didn't own a suit). By the end, all of that is gone. The four elections highlighted in the book (1966, 68, 70, 72) represent the pinnacle of dirty tricksterism, and the intentional fomentation of the great divides which hamper our country today."
3. See 2
4. I think the question of justice is often separate from that of prudence. It was unjust to pardon Nixon, but it was the right thing for the country to move past the institutional damage of Watergate as quickly as possible.
5. I don't know that fairness or unfairness is the issue with Nixon. I think most of his problems stemmed from his own insecurity and deviousness. As he himself noted, he gave his "enemies a sword".
6. I think he was a bad president overall because of the legacy of secrecy and underhandedness he left upon the office, as well as his intentional racial division ("Southern strategy") which still hampers this country today. If he has a redeeming quality, it was that he really did come from modest means, which is often what we associate with when conceptualizing the "American dream".
I'm Gwen,25 years old and do not remember Nixon,altho I have read about him and his presidency.
I am a lawyer;first,however I attended Julliard for piano,followed by Princeton. I have three doctorates,one in Lit. Currently, I work for the UN.
Nixon was as complex a character as the times demanded.It is a bit difficult to treat someone fairly just by reading a book,as an author's political bent will always seep through and color the image.
Nixon was spoken of as a devious,distrustful person in my household(when he was mentioned at all).As alluded to in a previous paragraph,the times were hard and the enemies gathering again because of the Vietnam War,something set in motion by the Kennedy administration. To some,"Tricky Dick" can be a curse;to others,a moniker of admiration.
He was pardoned and deserved to be pardoned.
Was he fairly treated? Yes and no. Nixon has become the bogeyman at Halloween and the supposed reason for everything evil to have befallen this country. That is a terrible burden for one President's shoulders. He was hefarious,sneaky and underhanded. But Communism was on the upswing and going strong at that time. Perhaps he fought for his country the only way he knew how:by emulating the leaders of communist countries.
I believe he was a good President.
I am a lawyer;first,however I attended Julliard for piano,followed by Princeton. I have three doctorates,one in Lit. Currently, I work for the UN.
Nixon was as complex a character as the times demanded.It is a bit difficult to treat someone fairly just by reading a book,as an author's political bent will always seep through and color the image.
Nixon was spoken of as a devious,distrustful person in my household(when he was mentioned at all).As alluded to in a previous paragraph,the times were hard and the enemies gathering again because of the Vietnam War,something set in motion by the Kennedy administration. To some,"Tricky Dick" can be a curse;to others,a moniker of admiration.
He was pardoned and deserved to be pardoned.
Was he fairly treated? Yes and no. Nixon has become the bogeyman at Halloween and the supposed reason for everything evil to have befallen this country. That is a terrible burden for one President's shoulders. He was hefarious,sneaky and underhanded. But Communism was on the upswing and going strong at that time. Perhaps he fought for his country the only way he knew how:by emulating the leaders of communist countries.
I believe he was a good President.
Hi, I'm Lacey and I'm from small town Mississippi. I've been interested in history since I was little, mostly because of my dad. I have a master's degree in history but only recently became interested in more modern history. I was not alive during the Nixon presidency but heard most from my dad, who never fails to make a face when Nixon is mentioned. Maybe my perceptions are colored by my dad's attitude. I don't think Nixon should have been pardoned and was treated with kid gloves throughout simply because he was the president. I understand why Ford did it, but I don't agree. It wasn't until the Frost/Nixon interviews that America got some of the explanation they deserved. Maybe I'm harsh, but the president should not be above the law. Watergate colored what might have been a decent presidency, but Nixon was addicted to the harsh, illegal back room maneuvering of politics and that was his downfall.
Hi, I'm Dave from Nebraska. I love history, especially American history. I have read several books with the book club and this is my second by Tim Weiner.2. & 3. I was alive during the Nixon administration, but just a little kid. Even though I was born when Johnson was President, Nixon is the first one I have memories of. I remember having network TV and his speeches forcing my hand at watching him. And I do remember the Watergate scandal, yet it was hard to grasp the significance of this back then.
4. At the time, I had no reason to think it was right or wrong that he was pardoned. My parents were both Republicans though so the sentiment in my family was that he should have been. In retrospect, probably not.
5. Was he treated fairly? Yep, he's lucky he got a pardon knowing what we know now.
6. Whether he was good or bad probably ties into party lines I'm sure, just as it does today. Time tends to soften it's view as well.
Onto the commentary for Intro-42, this is a great book right out of the gates. The part about the potential for peace in Vietnam being thwarted politically is unconscionable. I find it quite frightening that this man was in such a position that we could have so easily gone into nuclear war with him at the helm. I consider us all lucky we're here to discuss this.
Good idea to do this type of post Bentley so we can see how/if our opinion changes!Hi everyone, I am Chris from Detroit, MI. History sparked my interest in my 8th grade history class when we got into the American Civil War. It's been an interest of mine ever since. I would say I have gravitated to more of the video (e.g. American Experience) in learning about history but have read several books.
2 & 3) I was not alive when Nixon was president. I was born several years after we left office. My family leans strongly democratic so I did hear about him a lot from my father - in a more negative light. He would call him a crook and never said anything positive about him. While my Dad was in the army when he got out he did participate in the anti-war protests. This definitely shaped my perception of him during those years. Several years ago I visited his library so I got to find out more about him. I left feeling sorry for him and as I think about it now not really anything positive about him. Opening the doors to China would be one positive that I can recall.
4) Do you think that Nixon should have been pardoned? Yes, I think Nixon should have been pardoned. We needed to move on. In my opinion nothing of much good would have come thru it. He got his punishment and from what I understand we did institute legislation to try and deter people like him from doing similar things.
5) Was he treated fairly? Yes, I believe he was.
6) Do you think that Nixon was a great, good, fair or bad president based upon how you feel before you read the book. Why? Failings/redeeming qualities? I would say he was a bad president. His Vietnamese policy was very damaging to the Vietnamese and their neighbors, along with the American people. Also, he is the one who started the War on Drugs, correct? That has been a disaster. I hope to read about some redeeming qualities in him during the reading of this book.
I'll post commentary as I finish up the first part tomorrow.
I finished chapters 1-4 and am flabbergasted at the amount of treachery. Not only with the sabotaging of the peace talks but also the secret bombing of a neutral country. How do you bomb a country secretly? It is mind-boggling.
Glynn......it is mind boggling what Nixon and his men got away with.....nothing they did was legal and they just kept covering up and covering up. I certainly am getting a different perspective on Henry Kissinger!
I'll put some information in the glossary tomorrow or so on Operation Menu (the bombing of Cambodia). For now, here is a link that has some more information. http://www.historycommons.org/entity....
I agree with both of you!
Hoping I am posting in the right spot. Just starting in on the discussion here for the Nixon book. I agree with Glynn and Jill about the shock at discovering what illegal acts and sneaky power grabbing plans Nixon and Kissinger engaged in. I was also so surprised at Kissinger's engagement and knowledge of the dirty dealings. At the time of Kissinger's government involvement when I was a young adult, I had high respect for him. Of course, as we see now more and more often there is so much going on in our government that is never revealed to the public until years and years later. I have been suspicious of media reports on government activities for years. Glad to be reading this book and discovering the truth about at least the Nixon era.
Hello everyone, I am Rose. History is fascinating and what can be uncovered to add to or change what we know, or think we know, is what keeps it rather fresh....it doesn't just grow moldy on the shelves. From little snippets in children's books to full-blown access (or nearly so) as we are reading now, all history teaches if only we choose to listen. I am interested in this book because I was too young to really understand and to start becoming more involved with this group.1) I loved the news as a child. When my parents arrived home from their respective working days and supper was cooking or finished, they would turn on the television to the news. I'm sure that is when I heard of anything political or otherwise. I knew he was in trouble and people were calling for his impeachment (whatever that meant.....it was a while before I knew).
2-6) As I grew I became interested in other activities such as ballet, sports and school in general so Nixon was not a topic of conversation. I really didn't know anything about him other than the word "Watergate" which, honestly, I just figured was a tag placed on his presidency...and he became one of the forgotten. Now that I've joined a group that loves history also, I am able to learn about the events of the past. I'm beginning the 4th chapter now and WoW! what an eye opener so far. I am listening to the audio version and the narrator is fantastic. The author delved deep into Nixon and the book is truly amazing.
Teri, thank you for sharing that link to more information about Operation Menu. I was shocked that Nixon put this plan into action without really consulting with his Secretary of Defense or Secretary of State (although, from what we are learning about Nixon, I guess I shouldn't have been that surprised...)
Hi Lynne. You are posting in the right spot. I think we'll be shocked by the behavior of a lot of men involved, but I would agree that Kissinger is likely the one many of us will see a different side of.
Lynne wrote: "Hoping I am posting in the right spot. Just starting in on the discussion here for the Nixon book. I agree with Glynn and Jill about the shock at discovering what illegal acts and sneaky power grab..."
You're quite welcome. This has spurred me to read more about Operation Menu and Cambodia.Cindie wrote: "Teri, thank you for sharing that link to more information about Operation Menu. I was shocked that Nixon put this plan into action without really consulting with his Secretary of Defense or Secreta..."
Hello everyone! I am glad to see so many members joining us for this Spotlight read. I'll be posting some discussion questions a bit later but thought I'd throw this one out there for you. Chapter 3: "He was surrounded by enemies" (great title by the way) This chapter talks about key men Nixon appointed for his administration.
Questions:
1. What was it that Nixon saw in Kissinger that made him want to appoint him as National Security Advisor? See page 30.
2. What were your impression of the men that surrounded Nixon?
Your question leads me to another question in an attempt to determine how Nixon knew that he could depend on the men in his inner circle to agree to participate in obviously illegal acts. And the man I have the most trouble with is Kissinger. He was (is) a brilliant man and a great tactician but why would he, of all those surrounding Nixon, feel that it was acceptable to be a party to those illegal activities? He could have blown the whistle or threatened to and stopped or avoided some of the problems that arose from the "dirty tricks'. He was smarter than Nixon but obviously was equally more cold-blooded than I ever imagined.As for the rest of the inner circle, they were either followers who reveled in their positions, power hungry, or sociopathic (Liddy comes to mind). Nixon obviously had a real talent for targeting men that he knew would remain loyal but never trusted any of them. The whole situation is rather a conundrum
Gary SchantzI have knocked off the first two chapters of the book. So far I am finding it quite interesting that Presidents would choose to play with the lives of the military for political gains.
On page 30 there is a specific statement that Nixon, on his first meeting with Kissinger at a holiday part, saw in him a talent for conspiracy during the elections. Nixon may have seen a side to Kissinger that the public did not see. I wonder what secrets he still holds.
Jill wrote: "Your question leads me to another question in an attempt to determine how Nixon knew that he could depend on the men in his inner circle to agree to participate in obviously illegal acts. And the m..."
Glad you are joining us, Gary. Yes, it is very disconcerting.
Gary wrote: "Gary Schantz
I have knocked off the first two chapters of the book. So far I am finding it quite interesting that Presidents would choose to play with the lives of the military for political gains."
I'm going to quote another book, which I think summarizes Weiner's position quite well:"His strengths included great intelligence, unbounded willingness to invest effort in advancing his purposes, and an encyclopedic knowledge of politics. He had a shrewd sense of power relations, keen insight into the psychology of others, and an instinctive capacity to discern the possibilities for action in particular situations. He delighted in making bold political moves and had a fascination with international affairs. Nixon's weaknesses arose from his deep-seated anger and feelings of persecution...he was highly introverted and socially awkward." (p. 99)
by Fred I. Greenstein (no photo)
Regarding Chapters 1 - 4, I echo the shock of Teri and others over the secret bombing of Cambodia. Treachery at its finest. Or not.Teri, to answer your questions about Kissinger and the others who surrounded Nixon, I think this adage holds true:
Human beings surround themselves with people they desire to emulate.
Clearly, Nixon saw something in Kissinger (and vice-versa) that others did not, something that helped them work toward their dirty goals and objectives. But it goes deeper. I was flabbergasted at the number of tricksters, frauds, and crooks the administration attracted to rubber stamp and even carry out their plans. It was almost as though treachery was a requirement to serve.
I highly doubt this was the first administration to make back room deals with to further their own political gains. However it was the first administration to have confront the media on such a large scale especially with the new generation of journalists who wouldn't keep presidential secrets. This what Nixon failed to appreciate when he started undermining Johnson attempt to end the Vietnam war.
OK - so i am from New York, 71 years old and remember Nixon well.M interest in history is long based upon I think a want to understand things and it is easier if one can understand the foundations I think.
And I thought that Nixon was a sleeve of the highest order.
As Mr. Weiner says in the first paragraph on the first page Nixon "damaged the nation" and I do believe he caused the greatest peacetime threat we ever had to the stability of our government with his illegal abuse of power.
I have always believed that Ford pardoning Nixon was the correct path to avoid decades of political embarrassment for us with all the international leaders who had relationships with him (the Chinese did insist to visit him after the resignation) and saved us the long decisive struggle we would have had through a trial. However now I am thinking that maybe it should have been a "plea deal" - five or ten years of house arrest to stifle his future satisfactions and influence.
I think the sleeze was regally treated. Much more than he deserved. The reason is that he caused the national nightmare - and prolonged it - actually two - the Watergate/tapes nightmare and the extended war in Vietnam nightmare that was shared by the families of most of the 57,000 dead who died on his watch. Nixon deserved a bit more discomfort - no a lot more - than he got.
I think Nixon was a terrible president in that he precipitated our great constitutional crisis and the prolonged war in Vietnam along with his immoral activities. Opening China was coming anyway and maybe it would have been better to go without our hat in our hand asking for help with Vietnam.
So now I have finished the questions and will make some personal observation comments.
Pgs 22 -23 - he killed Johnson's chance of success with peace talks to gain the presidency - why am I not surprised?
Pg 31 - I did not realize that Kissinger had built the NSC.
Pg 34 - the tool we all fear - he used an IRS Audit - implemented by John Dean - who wrote
John W. Dean
which along with
Carl Bernstein
- interesting that only Carl Bernstein is included in the Goodreads author for this book.were the only Nixon books I read and only the lure of Tim Weiner and the HBC got me to want to read this book.
Pg 34 Ehrlichman got Nixon to vow off booze to run for President - did he not think this kind of guy could be unsuitable? -
Pg 39 the bombing to avoid obvious combat as by troops in secret - remove the danger - hide from the people but render gross pain and destruction - was this the first precedent for use of now unmanned drones?
Anyway I am sure I will find this book interesting and that you will all help me see and think about it and understand it better.
I just wonder how Mr. Weiner can subject himself for book after book researching these dismal chapters and incidents in our history.
Gary wrote: "I highly doubt this was the first administration to make back room deals with to further their own political gains. However it was the first administration to have confront the media on such a larg..."Exactly, Gary. He didn't really learn when he lost to Kennedy, that the electronic media (TV) and standard journalism were now forces to be reckoned with. He still believed that the fourth estate was as it was in WWII where journalists kept quiet about many military actions at the request of the government. It led to his downfall in what is a relatively short period of time.
I was also surprised to learn that he hardly mentioned Vietnam at all when he 'secured' the Republican nomination, and barely discussed a withdrawal plan after he was nominated.
Got thru the reading for this week and a couple of items struck me:1) Page 9: "When the president does it, that means it is not illegal". Tying his actions to the Civil War with Lincoln suspending hapeas corpus is quite a stretch. Yes, we had the Cold War going on but unsure if that was to the same level. Nixon has been said to be delusional it times so maybe he did equate the two.
2) Page 40: The bombing records falsified by the top American commander is Saigon. I was somewhat surprised by this. I can understand civilians doing this, but a senior military leader doing this to me is a different story.
Hi! I am TR and I am interested in American History, Military History & British History all of which include my top interest - political history. I am currently reading quite a bit about FDR and interested to read additional presidential histories.2. I wasn't alive during Nixon's presidency
3. My dad voted for Nixon even though he is a hardcore liberal and Democrat now. My mom admires him for having "ended the Vietnam War"
4. This is a very difficult question. Undoubtedly jailing the POTUS would have been an unprecedented and divisive thing to do for the US and for the world. In the end, although unpopular, I think pardoning was the right thing to do.
5. I think Nixon was treated more than fairly and probably better than he deserved in the interest of the greater good of the US
6. I think he was a fair-bad president because of his corruption but there is a feeling of empathy that I get for him because of his self-doubt and neurotic worries about betrayal. Having read a lot about US presidents, it's clear that it takes extraordinary human beings to withstand the pressure of such a job - maybe he just wasn't strong enough mentally to handle it well.
Christopher said that "Tying his actions to the Civil War with Lincoln suspending hapeas corpus is quite a stretch. Yes, we had the Cold War going on but unsure if that was to the same level. Nixon has been said to be delusional it times so maybe he did equate the two." While I agree in retrospect it seems delusional, I would argue (and maybe someone who lived during the Cold War - I was very young at the end of it - will refute me on this) that at the time those involved in the Cold War saw things differently. Winning the Cold War was paramount to enable the future of western-style democracy and in Nixon's view, anything he did to achieve this goal, was fine. In this line of thinking, could see how he might make the connection to Lincoln.
Bryan wrote: "I'm going to quote another book, which I think summarizes Weiner's position quite well:"His strengths included great intelligence, unbounded willingness to invest effort in advancing his purposes..."
Great point, Bryan. Nixon definitely had some personality/emotional issues. The last sentence in that quote is very telling. That brings us to another topic for discussion.
Questions for discussion:
1. What events from Nixon's personal history helped influenced the man he became? (see pages 10-12)
2. Many times exceptional leaders come from extremely poor backgrounds - what in their background makes them excel?
Andra wrote: "Regarding Chapters 1 - 4, I echo the shock of Teri and others over the secret bombing of Cambodia. Treachery at its finest. Or not.Teri, to answer your questions about Kissinger and the others wh..."
Their relationship was an interesting dynamic. I'm interested in finding out more about it, through this book.
Gary wrote: "I highly doubt this was the first administration to make back room deals with to further their own political gains. However it was the first administration to have confront the media on such a larg..."I have no doubt that there are many secret deals from the beginning of our government that have occurred. I am sure there are a lot of secrets we have not been/will never be privy to.
News media/on-air journalism was really coming into focus at that time, and I agree that Nixon just didn't consider that.
Vincent wrote: "OK - so i am from New York, 71 years old and remember Nixon well.M interest in history is long based upon I think a want to understand things and it is easier if one can understand the foundation..."
Like you, I didn't realized the involvement of Kissinger in NSA. I have always focused on his career as Secretary of State.
RE: Pg 34 Ehrlichman got Nixon to vow off booze to run for President - did he not think this kind of guy could be unsuitable? - Unsuitable and perhaps unstable?
Regarding your question for Tim. You might want to go post it in the "ask Tim" thread. I'd love to hear his answer to that one.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
G wrote: "I was also surprised to learn that he hardly mentioned Vietnam at all when he 'secured' the Republican nomination, and barely discussed a withdrawal plan after he was nominated."Agreed. As I was reading, I had expected that he would use those points with the nomination.
Christopher wrote: "Got thru the reading for this week and a couple of items struck me:1) Page 9: "When the president does it, that means it is not illegal". Tying his actions to the Civil War with Lincoln suspending..."
I'd like to say that I was surprised about snr. military falsifying records, but I wasn't. I know this happened under Eisenhower, to a much lesser extent (that we know about, anyway), but that has me thinking that it's not out of the realm of possibility that someone would do that.
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Ted wrote: "Christopher said that "Tying his actions to the Civil War with Lincoln suspending hapeas corpus is quite a stretch. Yes, we had the Cold War going on but unsure if that was to the same level. Nixon..."I definitely see your point. I think your comment Winning the Cold War was paramount to enable the future of western-style democracy and in Nixon's view, anything he did to achieve this goal, was fine. is spot on.
Ted wrote: "Christopher said that "Tying his actions to the Civil War with Lincoln suspending hapeas corpus is quite a stretch. Yes, we had the Cold War going on but unsure if that was to the same level. Nixon..."Great point Ted. I think I was around 12 or so when the cold war ended. In my first years of grade school I remember the fear of a potential nuclear strike by the Russians. So Nixon acting in this way probably was rational and he likely had a lot of people to support him in this "at all costs" thinking.
Gary wrote: "I highly doubt this was the first administration to make back room deals with to further their own political gains. However it was the first administration to have confront the media on such a larg..."Interesting observation, Gary.
Off the top of my head, I can't think of a POTUS that has so much vindictiveness. I know a couple of pre-Civil War presidents were upset and hurt like Pierce and Tyler at the end of their term, but Nixon might be a new level.
Hi I am Shannon and from Seattle, WA. I love history, and actually majored in it, because of my parents' formative years in the 1970's and I am interested in this book and Nixon I'm hoping for a more nuanced discussion of the events than the filter of my parents yelling at the radio. At some point I should mention that the first adult nonfiction book I ever read
by Carl Bernstein.2. Nixon resigned the summer before I was born. My parents used to throw a picnic on August 8th, play a tape of the resignation speech and cheer him out. For those of you who are not from America: This is abnormal behavior.
3. Of course I don't remember contemporaneous commentary, but I do remember our search for the bumper stickers that said: "I don't care if he's dead, I still want to impeach Nixon." I remember the cartoons with the Pinocchio nose. And I remember being taught to yell at the radio during Reagan's press conferences. I would say that even though I wasn't alive, the Nixon presidency did color my views of what I think an ideal government is and does, and what honor and honesty are.
4. Ford shouldn't have pardoned him. The lesser men went to jail. A good leader would have stood by them and served his time as well.
5. I think Nixon was too fairly treated. What has bothered my in the years since has been the demonizing that the Republican party has sought since, trying to "get" a democratic president in return.
6. This question is hard. I believe that he was a bad president because he was a bad man. I believe he was an influential president because the aides and cabinet members of his administration either trained the staff of the Bush and Reagan administrations, or graduated to higher positions in the same.
Mod
Folks, Tim Weiner is with us and is answering questions on the Ask Tim thread so as you are reading make sure to find your way over there and post your questions about the book and Nixon:
Here is the link:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Questions for discussion1. On page 6, the author mentions a quote by Martin Luther King, Jr. "Nixon has a genius for convincing one that he is sincere...If Richard Nixon is not sincere, he is the most dangerous man in the world." What actions support this quote?
2. What events from Nixon's personal history helped influenced the man he became?
3. Many times exceptional leaders come from extremely poor backgrounds - what in their background makes them excel?
4. After losing his bid for California Governor in 1962, Nixon faced a time of "political exile". What did he do during this time to help his career later?
5. Besides conferring with Thieu during his campaign, what other dirty tactics did Nixon use?
6. Who do you think was the most influential/important member of Nixon's team and who was his biggest enemy?
7. Were you surprised to learn that the details around the bombing of Cambodia stayed secret for 30 years?
Mod
Hello, Nick! Don't forget that you have to do a citation of any book you mention in your comments other than the book being discussed at the moment.Like this:
by
Rick PerlsteinThank you!
Hello Vincent! Be sure to put the citations of the books you are mentioning at the end of your post (and not inside the text) to make it more undestandable and visible for other members of the group. Also, the author's cover should go before the link. Your message should look like this:Pg 34 - the tool we all fear - he used an IRS Audit - implemented by John Dean - who wrote Blind Ambition which along with All the President's Men - interesting that only Carl Bernstein is included in the Goodreads author for this book - were the only Nixon books I read and only the lure of Tim Weiner and the HBC got me to want to read this book.
And then at the end of your post you put the citations like this:
by
John W. Dean
by
Carl BernsteinThank you!
Andra, in message 58, could you go back and correct your citation for the book you mentioned? It should look as follows:
by
Stephen E. AmbroseThank you.
The History Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
Chasing Shadows: The Nixon Tapes, the Chennault Affair, and the Origins of Watergate (other topics)Fatal Politics: The Nixon Tapes, the Vietnam War, and the Casualties of Reelection (other topics)
Vietnam: A History (other topics)
Richard M. Nixon: A Life in Full (other topics)
Richard M. Nixon: A Life in Full (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Ken Hughes (other topics)Stanley Karnow (other topics)
Conrad Black (other topics)
Conrad Black (other topics)
Niall Ferguson (other topics)
More...
Also try your hand at these pre discussion questions.
2. Tell us whether you were alive while Nixon was President and what did you think of him at the time and after. Just born and he was Tricky Dick for a reason.
3. If you were not alive when Nixon was President or just a little guy or gal at the time - what do you remember hearing about Nixon at the time from your parents and grandparents. Did this shape your perception of the man? Never heard much about him.
4. Do you think that Nixon should have been pardoned? Why or why not? No. We have got into the mode of pardoning our presidents. Nixon should have been in jail. So should have quite a few afterwards. Our presidents now know they are not accountable. And no one will ever hold them accountable. Everything is now fair game.
5. Do you think that Nixon was fairly treated? Why or why not? I think he got off lightly for what he did.
6. Do you think that Nixon was a great, good, fair or bad president based upon how you feel before you read the book. Why? Failings/redeeming qualities? Nixon was a failure. Even before he was president. His presidency only magnified him as a failure. Unfortunately this is the case with many leaders who are pushed or get themselves pushed into positions that they lack the competency for. G. W. Bush and his Iraq disaster is a perfect example of a fairytale that exists in a man's head. LBJ, Nixon, and G.W. had no capability as leaders. Once they became leaders...it was all unfortunately very clear to us as well.
Let us try to think about some of these answers before we begin our discussion and reading of the book to see if your impressions change after that or will they remain the same. Let us check back and find out.