Japanese Light Novel Book Club discussion
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Is it Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon? Vol. 1
If anyone else wants to follow along with the japanese version, you can get the ebook version at bookwalker.co.jp. It does not appear to be available on the iBooks Japan store. Physical copies are available on the Kinokuniya bookstore site and, of course, at Amazon.co.jp.
Mod
I bought this on Kindle awhile ago - not in Japanese, though since I can't read Japanese. How far has everyone gotten?
I tried to order it and they said you can get it in 8 weeks (╥_╥)that's when I sometimes feel like I'm in the sticks...
Well, I can always get it from Amazon but I don't think I'm ready to pay the same as the price of the book just to get it shipped here...
I think I'll try to jump in next time...I hope（＾ω＾）
Hey Mohamed - the english version is on Kindle. I don't know if that helps you right off, but you can read Kindle books on PC's or on a phone or whatever and the 'shipping' is really fast. The price is usually pretty good too.Brandon - I should be done with the first part in another day (want to read english version after japanese). Do people wait to discuss a section until everyone has read it?
Mod
You're welcome to read ahead of schedule and discuss in this thread. Just put anything in a spoiler tag if you're ahead of the curve. ;)
So, right now is prologue and Chapter 1 without the spoiler tag. If you want to discuss chapter 2, however, put that in the spoiler tag.
Thanks!
I don't mind discussing when everyone else is ready.What do you all think of the magic system so far?
By the end of chapter one it seems like all we've really got is major character intro and setup for the world. Harem plus game, sincere hardworking everyman hero - exactly what the cover/title promises so far. Though I'm expecting a twist to come along at some point because the title seems to be too popular to be pure formula. I'm wondering if the RPG-ishness is primarily to pull a gamer audience, or if maybe the world will turn out to actually be an RPG in not-so-thinly-veiled disguise.
The translation seems to have adjusted the demographic downwards towards a more juvenile target group. I wonder if the publisher is trying to realign the story to a perceived younger target audience for the english version. Does anyone here know if that sort of thing is common?
The twist of having the gods themselves participate in what for them is a world building game but then making the protagonist a non-god (an NPC?) is interesting. Other stuff I've seen in this vein is told from the perspective of a player (SAO, No game no life, C-Control, etc).
Mod
I can't comment too much since I haven't read it yet, but normally Yen Press doesn't mess around with the series when translating. That was always Tokyopop's thing.
It could just be that in translating, the wording got simpler. Or that we in America look at the shorter sentences and paragraphs as being more "juvenile."
But as I said, haven't read yet. ^^;;; Darn need for sleep.
Mod
Reading it, I can't help thinking, "This must be what gaming companies think their intended audience is..."
Selena wrote: "So I finished the prologue and am about halfway through chapter 1.Reading it, I can't help thinking, "This must be what gaming companies think their intended audience is...""
Game-ish worlds and plots seem like a pretty popular structure lately. It's not hard to see why. The approach builds on a lot of well understood character types and plot lines and it has a lot of appeal to a demographic that has room to grow - gamers. I would be worried that it might become superficial if it was mainstream american stuff, but japanese creators seem much more serious about making stuff that the audience loves. I'm always impressed with what they can do given a concept that by all rights should be stale.
James wrote: "Game-ish worlds and plots seem like a pretty popular structure lately."Although, this isn't really a "game world" in the most literal sense, not like Log Horizon, SAO, and Accel World are. I think the reason this feels more original and not as stale is because of the setting. This is a fantasy world that uses gaming elements, terms, and a very MMORPG-style leveling system to determine strength. It's not really original, but you never see something like this in a fantasy story.
Mod
I got a laugh out of the leveling up feature with the stat sheet on adventurer's backs. Though, I get the feeling no one's got all that high a defense stat if it requires you get hit to increase that.
Mod
Selena wrote: "The leveling system isn't want reminds me of Recettear. It's more the way the world acknowledges the game stuff. In Recettear, you play as a shopkeeper in a RPG world, and so it does a lot of the p..."It is interesting how people acknowledge the "game" elements to the story. Maybe it's just me, but it also almost feels like this is a method of breaking the fourth wall, though I'm really not sure if that's the case.
The fun part is that the whole setting seems like taken from an online game, but it's the 'real' world (or at least as far as we are concerned in Volume 1)
Mod
I agree. The trying to make video game logic work in "real world" is really entertaining.
Mod
Hestia is the Greek goddess of the "hearth" (the home, essentially). Hestia is both the "oldest" of the first generation gods (having been the first born) but also the "youngest" (having been the last spat back out by Cronus). And for the record, she's supposed to be Aphrodites' exact opposite (chaste, domestic). Somehow, I don't think this meshes well with the Hestia presented in this LN, but I may be wrong. :) She's got the whole "family" thing down, after all.
And that Loki that keeps getting brought up? She's a Norse trickster god. This makes more sense than you might think, though, having a goddess with the name Loki (I think Loki's female in this). Norse Loki has the ability to change shape and gender. In the myths, he actually turned into a mare, seduced a stallion, and gave birth to Slepnir.
I don't know what other gods/goddesses are going to pop up, but once they do, I'll be sure to give a brief description of their real world myth counterparts as well. ;)
(Oh, and for the record, I'm a huge Norse myth geek lol)
Selena wrote: "So all the gods in here seem to be based off of actual gods from mythology... or are at least borrowing names.Hestia is the Greek goddess of the "hearth" (the home, essentially). Hestia is both t..."
I think it's mostly just borrowed names, though certain aspects of each god or goddess remains. Hestia is a good example. Despite being something of a loafer, she offers Bell a home, or a hearth, and she really does care for and try to look after him. Loki is also very much a trickster in both this and Norse mythology, though Loki is a dude in mythology and a female here. I suppose they gender bent some of the characters for plot reasons, though only time will tell.
What I'm curious about is how many mythologies were used in DanMachi. I'm only knowledgeable about a few mythologies: Greek, Roman, Norse, Japanese, Chines, and Hindu.
Does anyone else find the writing style hard to follow? Maybe I'm being picky, but it feels very choppy. The short sentence often feel like unfinished thoughts, and the writing seems messy to me. The fight scenes feel especially jarring at times, especially when I read something like "Walk to the next, repeat, walk further still, repeat." and "That one's close! Dive, slash down! Through the throat! That's two."I kind of feel like the author, or maybe the translator, was trying to make the pace faster, but these sentences completely threw me out of the story.
Sorry for complaining.
Mod
Yeah, this one seems a bit more staccato than most of the other LNs I've read. I can't say whether it's the translator or the author in this case, as it doesn't look like Andrew Gaippe (the translator) has done any other work and I haven't read anything else by this author, in English or in Japanese.
I get the feeling, though, that the short sentences might be the original author, though. Translators, especially those from Yen Press, try to avoid messing with things too much. I get the feeling companies have learned from the mistakes of Tokyopop.
I know that Norse Loki could transform into whoever or whatever he wants. But Loki from Norse mythology is still a guy, I think. This Loki is definitely a girl... though, if we do find out that Loki is actually a man later in the series, I won't be surprised.That is true. I think most LNs translated by Yen Press are as untampered with as possible. Naturally, they have to do some. While I don't know much Japanese, I feel like the two languages are somewhat incompatible, which is why subtitles in anime can be so awkward at times.
Since I've already watched the anime adaptation, and without going into spoirerish details, I can let you all know the 'God Fest" will surely continue lolI think the writing it's OK. Maybe compared with other light novels such as Spice and Wolf has a mediocre writing, but it's still fun to read.
For what I've seen, it's the author's fault.
It's not the writer. The Japanese version is much better. It's so much better that it's almost a different book. Which makes sense. Japan produces a lot of light novels and has a lot of talented authors. Any title popular enough to make it into anime is going to be fairly well written.
From the opening artwork it looks like Haphaiestos (Hephaestus) is also female here. As far as I can remember, in myths he's always depicted as male and doesn't have any magic gender bending powers.I'm enjoying this book a lot more than I expected to. I hadn't bothered watching the anime but I think I will go give it a shot after I get through the novels. I'm glad it came up as an option for the group.
James wrote: "From the opening artwork it looks like Haphaiestos (Hephaestus) is also female here. As far as I can remember, in myths he's always depicted as male and doesn't have any magic gender bending powers..."I don't know how the Japanese version compares to the anime, but I can tell you that I enjoyed the anime better than the English translated light novels.
James wrote: "It's not the writer. The Japanese version is much better. It's so much better that it's almost a different book. Which makes sense. Japan produces a lot of light novels and has a lot of talented au..."Clearly I need to read the Yen Press translation. I don't remember the action being standout in either direction in the fan-translation, and it was better written then most LNs that I have seen get translated. It was kind of a generic slog done well.
Edit: asked a friend, apparently he seems to agree that they butchered the translation, and it certainly hurts the reading by at least a full star
Edit 2: ohh wow I gave the series a 4/5 then yeah the writing must be better then I remember. To be fair this was kind of before I went into a litRPG craze for a while.
Mod
I can think of a half a dozen titles off the top of my head that disproves this theory, but I won't name them so as not to have pitchforks coming after me. ^^;;;
Usually Yen Press does a great job on the LNs, but apparently, not on this one.
The editing isn't nearly as good as usual. I keep finding instances of typos and even missing words. They put a translator on it that doesn't seem to have done much else (at least, according to Anime News Network).
I'm really surprised by the lack of quality on this one. These are the kind of shenanigans I'd expect from Tokyopop, not Yen Press.
Mod
What does everyone think of the various gods? I think I prefer the Norse gods in Matantei Loki Ragnarok myself, but I'm curious to hear what you think.
I'll admit, I'm a Hestia fan. It's not her boobs, well, maybe a little bit, but I also like how hard she tries to support Bell. As a goddess, she's kinda useless. Like, she doesn't seem to have any special skill like the others, yet she still does her best, and I like her personality.On a side note, I'm kinda creeped out by Freya.
Selena wrote: "I can think of a half a dozen titles off the top of my head that disproves this theory, but I won'..."I only claim that the original work is likely to be satisfying to a Japanese audience - whether the translation is satisfying to an international audience is another matter.
Selena wrote: "So... God party.What does everyone think of the various gods?"
Hestia is endowed with the usual love interest personality traits so she's hard to not like. Sincerity, devotion, earnestness. Maybe a little too stereotypical so far but I think we can hope for more as the story develops. She is fairly mature and calculating in her internal narrative so there might be some interesting growth for her.
I didn't expect vulnerability or childishness in Loki. Or such a superficial weak point. Does she have a crush on Hestia? Is Loki a tsundere? She certainly seems to have warm feelings for the Kenki. I think Loki is going to be interesting as an adversary for Hestia. I'm betting on a reconciliation and potential alliance down the road. At the end of chapter 5 it's hard to figure out Freya - mysterious potential villian?
And finally, as an engineer I'm having a good feeling about Hephaistos - though she's done little so far except play the parent to Hestia. I always end up rooting for the quitely competent characters, and I like the nurturing mentor technical type. I'm feeling pretty good about all the major characters aside from protagonist boy being female in this one. Of course, it's standard harem format but it's also a nice opportunity to see female character in roles that are usually reserved males. Breaking up the gender stereotypes there is refreshing.
James wrote: "And finally, as an engineer I'm having a good feeling about Hephaistos - though she's done little so far except play the parent to Hestia."I'm also interested to see where Hephaistos' character is taken. And, I'm rather curious to know why so many gods have been turned into goddesses. While Loki is known to be capable of transforming into a girl, Hephaestus is supposed to be a male. Is there a reason for the author gender-bending gods? I have noticed that in anime, manga, and light novels, there's a tendency for there to be more women than men. I'm wondering if it's a cultural thing, or if this is a form of fan service.
Mod
Depends on the intended audience and the creator. If the intended audience is female, then lots of females so the audience can find at least one they relate to. Or, often because the creator is female if the intended audience is female, they create a lot of female characters because that's what they know. :)
If the intended audience is male, well, then it's usually fan service.
In the case of this LN, it's definitely for fan service purposes.
Selena wrote: "If the intended audience is male, well, then it's usually fan service."Fan service it is. I kind of figured that was it, but I guess I was sort of hoping for another reason. :p
Selena mentioned in an earlier post that Yen Press doesn't mess around with translations much, but the translator seems to be making a lot of choices that keep the material accessible to the junior high school crowd. The original feels young-adultish but not juvenile. The translation is more the latter. Could just be the translator's style I suppose.It really picked up in the last two chapters. Feels like the author did a pretty good job of hiding enough to keep you guessing about what was coming even though it's pretty clear from the start how the story is going to work out. I enjoyed the ending a lot more than I was expecting to.
I was pretty skeptical about bringing so much RPG structure into a novel. I was imagining that it wouldn't be much fun for a non-gamer reader. But after reading through this first volume I can see how using stuff like leveling up, drop items, and experience points is just making explicit things that most readers are going to take for granted in a genre tale anyway. Once you go ahead and make that stuff really explicit it can potentially free up the author and reader to focus more attention on other things that might be more interesting. I suppose it’s true of any well used plot line that an experienced reader gets another level of story to look at - how this treatment differs from other treatments for instance. The story can become self-referential by drawing on the reader’s familiarity with the genre. It worked better than I thought it would even though I think it could probably be done much better than it was in this story.
Went to look at a synopsis of the anime and it seems like this first volume covers just three episodes. I suppose I should go ahead and read 3 more volumes before watching it then. Anybody have suggestions about that?
Nek0 wrote: "Yeah, it totally feels like fan service to me as well, especially with how some of the girls are described, their physical appearances I mean.I must confess that the abruptly short sentences are ..."
I'm with you, though I feel the short sentences have some kind of purpose. The only time you see them is during Bell's first-person POV. The rest of the time, the sentences flow much more smoothly. At the same time, I won't deny it, they annoy the heck out of me, too.
Brandon wrote: "Nek0 wrote: "Yeah, it totally feels like fan service to me as well, especially with how some of the girls are described, their physical appearances I mean.I must confess that the abruptly short s..."
Sentences in the original are also short, but it seems normal because that's a normal speaking style in Japanese.
Mod
Usually they do. I can't say for sure, but I get the feeling this translator took a lot of liberty with this one. I'm surprised that Yen Press let them. O.o As I've said previously, most of the publishers fear ending up in the same boat as Tokyopop.
I'm afraid I can't advise too much regarding the anime, though. I quit after one episode. ^^;;;
James wrote: "Sentences in the original are also short, but it seems normal because that's a normal speaking style in Japanese."These short sentences might work in Japanese, but, honestly, when read in English, it feels like someone simply butchered the language with a rusty spork. If this is a direct translation with no liberties taken, then I almost feel like they should have taken those liberties.
Selena wrote: "I'm afraid I can't advise too much regarding the anime, though. I quit after one episode. ^^;;;"
Did you not like the anime? I actually think it's better than the LN, which is surprising because I've never thought that before.
It's not an exaggeration to say that you can't do a direct translation. The question isn't whether you take liberties but what liberties you take. In this case I think the translator opted to keep things simple. I can see some advantages to that but the result doesn't suit an adult reader very well imho. I watched the anime after reading the first novel. I was struck by how different the treatment of the story was in the Anime. I imagine the primary goal was to keep the action very high so about 80% of the novel was cut out. I'm sure they could have made all of it work if they had had enough screen time and budget. Even so I thought that the adaptation was ok. Much like the translator, the director seems to rework the story to suit an audience that was different than that of the novel. Or maybe it was the financiers that were different.
I won't read the rest of the English translated novels but I might read the rest of the series in Japanese. If they make a second season for the anime I will watch it.
Just noticed this book is #7 in Amazon's rankings of Japanese Literature best sellers. 100 reviews give it an average of 4.5 stars and a lot of the 5 start reviews are gushing. This really is a fan-based genre. It does well in Japan too. Volume 5 of the series is currently Amazon Japan's #1 light novel best seller.
Mod
Does the US Amazon have a Light Novel best seller list? Because if it does, I have yet to find it and I totally would want a look. :)
No, I looked and there's nothing like an LN category on the U.S. Amazon. Amazon Japan has one (there's an english version of the website).
Or maybe not... looks like there might not be a way to view the rankings in english. If you're interested, here's the light novel rankings: http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/bestseller...
and here's the new releases light novel rankings:
http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/new-releas...
Mod
http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/bestseller......"
*in horrible impression of Mr. Miyagi because I suck at impressions* Ah, young grasshopper, it is called "Google Translate." If one uses Google Chrome, one can read all of the rankings. 8-)
James wrote: "Or maybe not... looks like there might not be a way to view the rankings in english. If you're interested, here's the light novel rankings: http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/bestseller......"
Japan why...why is Asterisk spiking more then 35th platoon from the anime...Asterisk has been awful so far.
http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/most-gifte...
This list seems a bit more similar to what I have heard from da internet. The other list seems to be like how Foundation and Dune are still placing high on the sci-fi list, and how ASOIAF dominates fantasy even though there is basically zero discussion about them among the more crazed fans. I'm sad to see that Mushoku Tensei doesn't seem to be as popular in Japan as it is on the western sites.
Nek0 wrote: "Yup, that was one of the reasons I felt so eager and excited to dive into this LN series, because it seemed so well-loved. I'm hoping the other volumes of the series will be an improvement in some shape or form. "Book 2 is a little better than book 1. There aren't as many choppy sentences that feel incomplete. I don't know if this a case of the author getting better at writing, or the translator becoming better at translating. That being said, I haven't read book 3 yet, since I deemed this LN to be a kindle-only read, and the kindle is more expensive than the paperback.
Nek0 wrote: "Brandon wrote: "Nek0 wrote: "Yup, that was one of the reasons I felt so eager and excited to dive into this LN series, because it seemed so well-loved. I'm hoping the other volumes of the series wi..."That's what I figured, too, but apparently, that's not the case here. The last time I checked, the Kindle version cost more than the paperback. It's weird. Either way, I haven't bought volume 3 because of that. While this series is interesting, it's not good enough that I'll pay $7.99 for a kindle edition.
But while riches and renown are incentive enough for most, Bell Cranel, would-be hero extraordinaire, has bigger plans.
He wants to pick up girls.
Is it wrong to face the perils of Dungeon alone, in a single-member guild blessed by a failed goddess? Maybe. Is it wrong to dream of playing hero to hapless maidens in Dungeon? Maybe not. After one misguided adventure, Bell quickly discovers that anything can happen in the labyrinth--even chance encounters with beautiful women. The only problem? He's the one who winds up the damsel in distress!
Discuss Is it Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon? Vol. 1 here!
Reading Schedule
9/27-10/3 Prologue & Chapter 1
10/4-10/10 Chapter 2 & 3
10/11-10/17 Chapter 4
10/18-10/31 Chapter 5
11/1-11/7 Chapter 6 & Epilogue