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The Dying Grass
The Dying Grass - TVP 2015
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Discussion - Week Five - The Dying Grass - Page 802 - 1000
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Jim
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Aug 30, 2015 11:14PM
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I'm loving the book overall, and I'm commenting now after just reading into the beginning of this week's section, still in "Beautiful and Almost Automatic." But I'll introduce a few of my minor critical quibbles, since one is bound to have a few when engaged in a long read.One risk that all clever authors face is the risk of sometimes being too clever for one's own good... or rather for displaying one's intended cleverness a bit more overtly than necessary.
While Vollmann, I think, usually works a very effective balance, where contrasts and undermining of one's expectations work to encourage sympathy where would not expect to have sympathy, at the same time that one is forced to look with a critical eye at the flaws of the one's we would like to admire as great men or heroes--well, there are other times when a bit of acid sarcasm becomes parody without nuance, especially when approaching something that is not entirely germane to the "Indian question," (e.g. some over-the-top displays of cynical capitalist greed and ignorant condemnation of communists and laborers... My God, they want a livable wage and shorter working hours, what next!?)
Anyway, I think every reader will have their own moments when they might think, Vollmann, that may be true to life, or it may not be, but you seem to have a bee in your bonnet.
Minor point. He gets it mostly right from my point of view.
But another quibble. With the thousands of times when one thought is interrupted by another thought, or by a sound, or by a scene change, I find I mostly like it when there is a real break, or the connections are subtle, or they are thematic, or they simply represent a kind of crosscutting between two or more simultaneous phenomena... but there may be a few too many instances of what could be called intentional coincidences where one phrase introduces or continues another. I'm talking about things like:
"... before I am--"
--"Dismissed!"
Where a sergeant or officer's cry seemingly completes the incomplete thought of Howard, contemplating his potential dismissal from service.
Sometimes is good, more often is not always so good... it's a hard judgement call, I'm sure, deciding when too much overt cleverness might push it in the direction of resembling one of those 1990's style advertisements or movie trailers where each clip of dialog is linked to another in a false-continuity.
A good scene--or series of scenes--for me--was when a group of "Bostons" were caught by scouts, a couple were shot, a couple were freed by Lean Elk, and a man and woman were taken captive, leading up to their salvation by Joseph (saved silently, passively), but really saved by Springtime and her baby. It was also strongly reminiscent of Pocahontas's rescue of John Smith in Argall, so we can see how certain themes carry through history and through this series of history novels. In Argall, though, the Powhatans were the force to be reckoned with, while the English were yet a harried minority only tenuously holding onto their lives, whereas now the same theme appears when the Nez Perce are the harried minority in the last stages of cultural extinction and the "Americans" are confident of victory as a historical certainty.
Zadignose wrote: "A good scene--or series of scenes--for me--was when a group of "Bostons" were caught by scouts, a couple were shot, a couple were freed by Lean Elk, and a man and woman were taken captive, leading ..."The scene you described is the most emotional one in the book to me. I was filled with dread until the moment the scene turned.
It has become clear to me now why the title of the book is The Dying Grass:It's because the publishers probably objected to the title Wiping Their Buttocks on Our Heads.
Also, the section "Fingernail Noises"--Particularly Sub-section 4, from pages 868-871--makes a nice little drama in miniature. I believed it.
Mod
It's because the publishers probably objected to the title Wiping Their Buttocks on Our Heads."
Without having read the book, I can imagine the scene à la Vollmann....
It wasn't until page 954 that it appeared to me that Wood is not merely eccentric, he's insane. His recent sudden change from demoralized near-deserter to pro-army zealot (whether he means to stay that way remains to be seen), followed by the glimpse into his thoughts as he rallies himself to do whatever Howard demands of him without regard for his own knowledge of good and evil, convinced me the strain of this long campaign has taken him past the breaking point. I now wonder what atrocity he may be willing to commit in the end (though perhaps he'll just fizzle out).
Further comments/discussion points:-I was surprised to discover how young Sound of Running Feet is, when she suddenly had her first period. Until then I assumed she was somewhere between 17 and early-20s.
-I forgot to ask earlier, what do you assume it means for Welweyas to be "the half-woman"? I suppose I could research it, or just check out Vollmann's appendices, but I wonder what one would assume. At first I though Welweyas might be anatomically a man, but holding a sort of female role within the tribe, but I later decided she might be a woman with a near-masculine role. I also wondered why there would be only one "half-woman" mentioned, if this in fact was a kind of normalized role among the Nez Perces. But then I meditated on the fact that Vollmann has also used Red O'Donnell, Doc, and Blackie as individuals who stand in for a type. So perhaps there are many "half-women" within the culture, but Welweyas is their one representative within the narrative. Anyway, the text itself (so far) leaves the designation entirely ambiguous.
-An amazing aspect of the book is that we know it's not possible for things to turn out well for both Howard and his gang, and Joseph and the Nez Perces... and it probably can't really turn out well for any of them, but I can still find myself rooting for both sides, and sympathizing and hoping for someone like Howard even though I know he's the cause of much suffering, and however badly things could turn out for him, all his dread of possibly disappointing the people who count on him, or failing his God, etc... he can't possibly suffer worse than all the little minor characters, anonymous civilian victims, even Umatilla Jim. So Vollmann gives us every reason to think why the hell should I care what happens to this guy and yet he makes it so that I do care.
-I'll post a quote from the book in a separate message below, because it's long...
P. 924 had a passage that was interesting to me, especially in light of having read a bit of Freud recently, and because of its bearing on the nature of memory and mysterious, seemingly meaningful, but illogical associations. (Vollmann later gives a quote from the real O.O. Howard, also on memory, on p. 960: You can only get suggestive glimpses of the past; for the fullest memory only yields detached pictures, leaving blanks between them for the imagination or other memories to fill.)Here's from p. 924-925 (periods added for whitespace):
-----------------------
Well, Sturgis, how are you bearing up?
General, my men are all in, and my horses have hoof disease--
I'm sorry to hear it, colonel,
..pitying him in truth,
....because on the fourth of February 1865, when I marched my army along the Augusta & Charleston Railroad, with the two-tongued Edisto River ahead, Sherman having commanded me to take Orangeburg, and we had to struggle through deep water, with our cartridge boxes tied around our necks, not one man fell out of the column; no one whatsoever complained of being all in,
......or have I forgotten?
....I wonder why Lizzie wants to put up green curtains all of a sudden? We've never used that color before. And why on earth did that occur to me? O, I see, it's this wall of foliage trembling
......and this brisk breeze, almost chilly, the willows and grasses thrashing even as the crowns of the pines up on the bluffs remain nearly still.
..Poor Sturgis--all in:
..unfit for command,
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Mod
Yes, present experience triggering memory associations from the past. Not necessarily the same as Freud's screen memories concept, but certainly in the same psychological ballpark...
One could read it as a memory supplying the unrealizable fantasy of leading perfect, uncomplaining men, whose actions are beautiful and almost automatic, while shielding him from the reflection that it is perhaps he himself who is "unfit for command."But that doesn't account for the green foliage/curtains.
Zadignose wrote: "It wasn't until page 954 that it appeared to me that Wood is not merely eccentric, he's insane. His recent sudden change from demoralized near-deserter to pro-army zealot (whether he means to stay ..."I don't see Wood as insane because of his behavior. His behavior illustrates the point of the Army being "almost automatic." They may gripe, they may have qualms but soldier will carry out their orders. (Have you looked into what Wood became? Definitely not insane. He becomes a remarkable, admirable figure in Oregon history.)
Zadignose wrote: "P. 924 had a passage that was interesting to me, especially in light of having read a bit of Freud recently, and because of its bearing on the nature of memory and mysterious, seemingly meaningful,..."A beautiful passage, in a few lines it illustrates one of the things Vollmann handles so well in this novel, the stream of consciousness.
Zadignose wrote: "Further comments/discussion points:-I was surprised to discover how young Sound of Running Feet is, when she suddenly had her first period. Until then I assumed she was somewhere between 17 and e..."
Welweyas is what we'd call a transsexual, physically male but mentally and emotionally female. This is made clear later in the novel.
Tom wrote: "I don't see Wood as insane because of his behavior. His behavior illustrates the point of the Army being "almost automatic." They may gripe, they may have qualms but soldier will carry out their orders. (Have you looked into what Wood became? Definitely not insane. He becomes a remarkable, admirable figure in Oregon history.) "I'd say, though, that Wood as portrayed here verges on the insane, whatever one might think of the historical person this fictional character is inspired by. So far (I haven't quite reached the end yet) it's not his outward actions that show his derangement, but his inner thoughts and some of his speech.) And speaking of the name, I had meant to point out what an interesting accident it is that "wood" should also be an archaic word for "insane."
However, perhaps to a mind-reader we would all seem insane, so it's probably fortunate that we don't normally have such access to the thoughts of others.
