WE ARE OPEN - SEPTEMBER - THE SIXTH EXTINCTION: AN UNNATURAL HISTORY

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Vincent wrote: "I am falling a bit behind but I am at at the Gore Climate Reality Project training and I thought I would note that today in one of our sessions Elizabeth Kolbert participated, with Andrew Friedman,..."


Wow Vincent I am jealous

[Betty]

Really Vincent?? I hardly think you need an excuse! Sounds amazing to be among those whom we read :)

[Helga]

Bentley wrote: "Vincent wrote: "I am falling a bit behind but I am at at the Gore Climate Reality Project training and I thought I would note that today in one of our sessions Elizabeth Kolbert participated, with ..."

Me too. Sounds great. I saw Gore on tv today talking about it.

[Teri]

I'm jelly too! ;-) Was there one speaker that stood out or were they all good?

Vincent wrote: "I am falling a bit behind but I am at at the Gore Climate Reality Project training and I thought I would note that today in one of our sessions Elizabeth Kolbert participated, with Andrew Friedman,..."

[Donna]

Vincent, that sounds wonderful. Please share some highlights with us.

[G]

I realized that I hate reading things on a kindle when I want to take notes, so I ordered this book and have been waiting for it to come. Of course I forgot completely that it was a 'one month' book, so I've only just read chapter 5. But, I did want to say something about Chapter 4 (view spoiler)[ The author mentions that …'nautiluses, for example, sailed through the extinction even: pretty much all of the species known from the end of the Cretaceious survived into the Tertiary.' What I want to know, and so far the author has not mentioned this to my knowledge, is what did all the survivors have in common? Benthic feeding? No, not all of the species who survived were bottom feeders. What was the overarching reason for the survival of those species? What common traits did they have? Be curious for an answer. (hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Response to G

(view spoiler)[Excellent question and one that I pondered myself while reading but then promptly forgot about. I'll have to do some digging to find out. I wonder if these were species that were more prone to adaptability. (hide spoiler)]

[Helga]

Response to G

(view spoiler)[ Some species are able to survive changed conditions and compete against rivals more successfully than others. With the dinosaur extinction many mammals and birds went extinct but no dinosaurs other than birds survived. One hypothesis I’ve heard is that the large animals did not survive, the largest being dinosaurs. The smaller animals had better metabolic energies like body temperatures that gave them an advantage. And some were burrowers which could protect them from some harsher climate changes. It is suspected that the debris from the asteroid impact resulted in lowering of temperatures which may have caused global disruption in land plants and plankton in oceans. The photosynthetic communities were in crisis and so the food/energy cycles were disrupted so the largest animals and giant marine reptiles went extinct. The smaller animals such as mammals and other animals with less energy requirements could survive and diversify in the new era. (hide spoiler)]

[G]

Helga wrote: "Response to G

[spoilers removed]"

Thanks, Helga. What you say makes sense. Based on your comments, we can then assume that the commonality among all creatures who survived was smallness and the ability to self regulate body temperatures to survive the lower global temps, or creatures who were already adapted to lower temps (benthic feeders, for example). That would explain the extinction of reptilian creatures who could not regulate body temps. Good point. Thanks.

[Kathy]

Just finished this book. I really learned a lot and thoroughly enjoyed her travelogue style of writing. The author has definitely opened my eyes to a scary situation.

[Teri]

Summaries for Chapters XI, XII, XIII

We're wrapping up our last week on The Sixth Extinction. It has been a pleasure reading along with everyone. We have had some great discussions on this book.

(view spoiler)[
Chapter XI - The Rhino Gets an Ultrasound

Kolbert focuses this chapter on habitat fragmentation using the Sumatran Rhino as an example. The rhino was once an abundant animal but their habitat became fragmented as deforestation took place in their homelands. Their population is now around 40 rhinos left. Question: It is mentioned in this chapter that humans are capable of driving large animals to extinction even though they go to great lengths to guarantee that they don't. Were you surprised that some nearly extinct animals in captivity are dying out, even though zoos/wildlife experts are trying to save them?


A Sumatran Rhino

Chapter XII - The Madness Gene

Europe was the home to Neanderthals for at least a hundred thousand years. Then, about 30,000 years ago, the Neanderthals vanished. Fossil records show that modern humans arrived in Europe 40,000 years ago. Within 10,000 years, Neanderthals were bred out. Through molecular sequencing, we have found that there is 1-4 percent Neanderthal DNA in all non-African humans. This indicates that humans and Neanderthals reproduced. Then the resulting hybrids reproduced. The pattern continued until Neanderthals were literally bred out. Kolbert states there is every reason to believe that Neanderthals would still exist if it weren’t for humans. Question: Do you agree with Kolbert's position?


A Neanderthal Diorama

Chapter XIII - The Things with Feathers

Kolbert concludes with the hope in humanity, pointing to various effects to conserve or preserve species. Whether meaning to or not, we are deciding which evolutionary pathways will be shut off forever and which can be left open to flourish. Question: What was your biggest takeaway(s) from the book?


Hawaiian Crow

Here are the questions Bentley posted for us at the beginning of our discussion on the book. Has anything changed in your thoughts since reading the book?

1. Has reading this book changed your views about climate change in any
way?

2. Did you find what you learned in this book alarming?

3. What do you think about the example of the ammonite – they were perfectly adapted to their environment, but the catastrophic effects of the asteroid still resulted in their extinction.

4. Do you see any way of slowing the acidification of the ocean? (pg118 tipping point is pH 7.8 – expected 2100)

5. Do you think the “islands on dry land” method of studying small ecosystems can help us to predict the effect of our actions our larger ecosystem?

6. In some parts of the world the number of species has dropped, in some parts of the world the number of species has increased. How does this add to the difficulty of predicting the future?

7. What percentage Neanderthal are you?

8. How far would you go to stop a species from becoming extinct?

9. Do you think that Kolbert remains unbiased about the subject?

10. Do you think you will change the way you life and living habits as a result of reading this book?
(hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

I'm glad you enjoyed the book, Kathy. I also liked the way Kolbert wrote the book, providing examples of concern with her travels. It really helped to clarify the points she was making.

Kathy wrote: "Just finished this book. I really learned a lot and thoroughly enjoyed her travelogue style of writing. The author has definitely opened my eyes to a scary situation."

[Powder River Rose]

Hello, I'm a little late to the discussion and I have read many of the posts and look forward to enjoying each of them very soon. I finished the audiobook a few weeks ago and it left me in somewhat of a quandary. Such a predicament we face, but her words inspired me to really look at life on earth much differently than I had just a month ago, how precious we (meaning all life) truly are and how, in essence, easy it has been to wipe out entire species.

I am a voracious reader of all genre and it's amazing that what the author speaks of can be found here and there in other books I've read, even in fantasy and mythology. This is not to dismiss her work in any way, in fact I think it only strengthens her book, arguments and statistics.

I must admit I do take issue with the snide political references in the book. To me it doesn't matter where in the political arena a reader stands (or refuses to stand), when an author adds political diatribe to a book that they hope will influence others to their desperate cause it doesn't bode well and actually hinders their efforts; the book then becomes suspect. I find that tremendously sad since she appears to have a passion for her work.

Back then to my quandary. Truly, "where do we go from here?" and "what can I do?" On the surface each may seem relatively simple, but in reality the answers may permanently elude us. The information in the book has been quite a topic for debate with my peers and family. I find myself wanting to relisten in order to immerse myself further in her findings.

Thank you for offering this book up for discussion.

[Vincent]

Helga wrote: "Bentley wrote: "Vincent wrote: "I am falling a bit behind but I am at at the Gore Climate Reality Project training and I thought I would note that today in one of our sessions Elizabeth Kolbert par..."

Gore was on TV with Chris Hayes at least who also participated in one of the panels

[Vincent]

Marc wrote: "Chapters 9-10

The survival of the fittest is an interesting question, especially when asking fittest of what? I recall reading somewhere, talk about local maximums and 'fitness landscapes'. THe i..."

(view spoiler)[I absolutely agree - I would use the description most adaptable - better than fittest or, as used earlier, stronger as the best adapted will survive I assume (hide spoiler)]

[Vincent]

Teri wrote: "Summaries for Chapters VIII, IX, X

We're back on land and into the forests and the trees. Our discussion this week focuses on global warming and the mass extinctions of trees, birds, bugs, and ba..."

Chapter 8 question Question: (view spoiler)[I think here is how well they can adapt which is to some extent determined geographically - if a species is at 9,000 ft altitude and it gets warmer so it moves to 10,000 feet it can possibly adapt but if it gets warmer and the mountain is only 10,000 feet high it might become extinct (hide spoiler)]

[Vincent]

Teri wrote: "Summaries for Chapters VIII, IX, X

We're back on land and into the forests and the trees. Our discussion this week focuses on global warming and the mass extinctions of trees, birds, bugs, and ba..."

Chapter 9 Question: 4. What other dependencies in nature can you note? (view spoiler)[there are so many but we have the Monarch Butterfly and milkweed (hide spoiler)]

[Vincent]

Teri wrote: "Summaries for Chapters VIII, IX, X

We're back on land and into the forests and the trees. Our discussion this week focuses on global warming and the mass extinctions of trees, birds, bugs, and ba..."

Chapter 10 question Question: Have you considered how easily it is to move a species from place to place and the effects on the interaction between species? (view spoiler)[some move more easily and some less so - we really notice the disruptive invasives that survive - it is part of the price of globalization - watch out if the TPP is ratified
By the way Teri - your photos are great!!!!! Thanks (hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

I'm glad you enjoyed the book. I think that if a book is truly good/inspiring to you, it will cause discussion with friends and family.

Don't forget to use the spoiler tags when talking specifically about the book. ;-)

Further comments
(view spoiler)[I didn't really notice the author saying anything specifically snide, politically, but I may have just not taken her comments that way. I know it inspired a political discussion here in the group, but I hope that any political stance did not overshadow the real concern. It sounds like you have soaked in a great concern and the book inspired you to look at what each of us can do to better our predicament.

Who read the book on your audio version? Was it the author? I'm just curious. (hide spoiler)]

Powder River Rose wrote: "Hello, I'm a little late to the discussion and I have read many of the posts and look forward to enjoying each of them very soon. I finished the audiobook a few weeks ago and it left me in somewha..."

[Teri]

I think if you google Al Gore/Chris Hayes, the video (at least in part) will come up.

Vincent wrote: "Helga wrote: "Bentley wrote: "Vincent wrote: "I am falling a bit behind but I am at at the Gore Climate Reality Project training and I thought I would note that today in one of our sessions Elizabe..."

[Teri]

Responses to Vincent

(view spoiler)[All great comments, Vincent. I didn't know about the TPP (Trans-Pacific Partnership) and had I not read this book, probably would not consider the harm in it. It's definitely something to watch for/about.

Adaption is definitely the better word. I came across this article earlier that talks about humans being the most adaptable of the species: http://www.scientificamerican.com/art...

Glad everyone is enjoying the pictures! (hide spoiler)]

[Dey]

Just read that the TPT was enacted! Cites is a strong deterrent to poaching because it stops the poachers at the shipyard. if you cannot ship it, you can't sell it.

[Teri]

Very concerning!

Dey wrote: "Just read that the TPT was enacted! Cites is a strong deterrent to poaching because it stops the poachers at the shipyard. if you cannot ship it, you can't sell it."

[Vincent]

The Sixth Extinction – Chapter 9 - The Rhino gets and Ultrasound

(view spoiler)[This chapter was a thought generating experience.

So after 20 million years we are being the demise of the Sumatran rhino…

So I am curious but it seems to me that the photo on page 221 indicates that Suci has had her horns removed – could that be correct?

For these rhinos too much time in the sun is an eye problem – I wonder if that is like our suffering melanomas????????

Pg 225 para 1 “South America had it’s own gigantic sloths as well - Mylodons…” - I will try to upload a photo of a model I saw earlier this year in Patagonia.

/Users/vince/Documents/Personal stuff Feb 24, 2013/the sixth Extinction/IMG_2084.jpg
(don't know if this worked - I tried to import a photo with myself and my wife in it to give it a scale.

think I failed

/Users/vince/Pictures/Photos Library.photoslibrary/Thumbnails/2015...
Pg 224 para 3 – interesting remark “zoologically impoverished world”

Pg 230 –para 1 - man is an “overkiller”

Pg 233 – interesting to consider that the long reproductive time for large mammals limited their chances. – I wonder how our nine months compares to roaches and other insects?

Pg 235 – para 1 “geologic instant” mentioned – is that like the time from the beginning of the Industrial Revolution to now?

So since my few days at the Climate Reality my angle of view seems to have been adjusted a bit. Reading this chapter I am wondering if maybe our culpability for “climate change” may be just a part of our overall “global modification” culpability.

Since some of you are doing all the last three chapters in one post I will not read them until I finish the three chapters myself. (hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Hey Vincent, don't forget your spoiler tags. ;-)

[Teri]

And the pictures did not come over. If you or your wife has a Pinterest account, you can upload there, or to a blog, etc., then use the html location in the img src= html tag.

[Vincent]

Teri wrote: "And the pictures did not come over. If you or your wife has a Pinterest account, you can upload there, or to a blog, etc., then use the html location in the img src= html tag."

yup - modified with spoiler tags already

I will ask at the apple store next time how to do it for the export of the photos

[Teri]

I wondered if I had caught you in mid editing. ;-)

Some comments to Vincent's post on Chapter 9

(view spoiler)[Some quick responses:

It does look like Suci has no horns. Interesting observation.

I'd love to see the pictures if you can get them working.

Here is a website that lists some lifespans/gestational periods: http://hokuspokus11.tripod.com/pets/l...

I would suspect that roaches/insects live a very short lifespan for the most part (of course, it's different for different types of insects). I think they are all egg laying species, so I expect that they lay eggs quickly and often. Probably in terms of days and not months.

I do think that our culpability is part of the overall global modification culpability. After reading the book, I think (and this may not be Kolbert's stance, I realize) is that changes were bound to happen to Earth whether humans have been part of the changes or not. I think there are many layers/effects that the world is dealing with and we as humans are a major culprit to them, but we are not the only culprit. Was that what you were getting at? (hide spoiler)]

[Helga]

I finished the book last week and enjoyed it alot. I would like to make more comments but just got on site the first time since last week as I live in Columbia, SC and if you might have seen we had the big flood last weekend. My home was flooded on Sunday morning with 5 feet of water. I am fortunate that it was my garage and basement. We were with out power, phones and water for days. We are still fighting problems in the state. I'm busy working with Cleanup of my house. I will read the posts as I can.
Here is a link with some of the pictures of the devastation.

http://www.weather.com/news/news/befo...

[Teri]

Oh Helga! I am so sorry you are having to endure that. I am in San Antonio and we had horrible floods/devastation this past spring, so I know what you're going through. Best wishes to you and others. I am glad to hear that your damage is minimal, considering...

[Dey]

Yes Helga, I'm sorry you are having to endure that too. I'm in Palm Springs and we could use some (a lot of) of that rain. Stay safe. Thanks for keeping us in the loop.

[Marc]

(view spoiler)[
Kolbert would not dispute that things change without us, that is a given, since we humans are so recent to earth, lots of extinctions and evolutions happened before we arrived and will happen after we are gone.

I think part of her point is, based on what she reported, we are a major reason why there is a large extinction event going on right now. By event she means not in a few years, but event from the perspective of geologic rates, where even a 100,000 years is a short time. And in that 100,000 years, we've either deliberately (passenger pigeons and chapter 3 (great auk), probably mammoth/mastodons and other giant animals, and the inadvertent (invasive species like the fungus that's killing the toads of chapter 1 and bats/trees from chapter 10, changing of environment, like the corals (and dependent species) of chapter 7, and the not deliberately killing, but deliberately shrinking their habitat (rhinos of chapter 11). One can easily find other examples (pine beetles killing pine trees due to warmer winters, zebra mussels, etc.

I think she is showing us the problems. Now it's up to us to find the solutions. Maybe preventing the sale of particular species (since some are purchased at exotic petstores and as seeds for gardening). Figuring out ways to reduce our carbon footprint, less polluting cars (talking to you Volkswagen, bad company!!).
(hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Response to Marc

(view spoiler)[I think that is a very good write-up/wrap-up, Marc! Well said. I know the book was eye-opening for me and although I thought I was trying to help do my part, I realize there is so much more I can do to treat our planet better. (hide spoiler)]

[Vincent]

Dey wrote: "Just read that the TPT was enacted! Cites is a strong deterrent to poaching because it stops the poachers at the shipyard. if you cannot ship it, you can't sell it."

The TPP was not enacted - it was "agreed to" - but for the biggest player, us the USA, the President still has to get it passed by congress and many of us hope he will fail - Bernie Sanders and now Hillary too - Pope Francis too but he can't vote here.

[Vincent]

Powder River Rose wrote: "Hello, I'm a little late to the discussion and I have read many of the posts and look forward to enjoying each of them very soon. I finished the audiobook a few weeks ago and it left me in somewha..."

Interesting that I did not read snide references - maybe the audio author was intoning them -

But it is politics that permits the activity that is accelerating the changing of the environment to move as quickly as it does. The Energy Act of 2005 or 2006 - forgot which - took away from the EPA the authority to enforce the Clean Air Act and Clean Water Act on the hyrdofracking industry. - (the reason there are so many state wide struggles to contain or somehow regulate the process) - politics is the tool we have to, as a society, to try to make our world better or worse - should we not have any limits at all on tobacco? - on food processing? - Individual actions will not enable us to reduce green house gases - the recent Chinese carbon charging method is indicative of how politics is maybe the only tool that can have the ability to move fast enough. Even the Pope knows that God (with or without an upper case "g") can't do it alone (joke)

----------------------------

Please let me clarify - sorry for not reading more carefully before posting

When I wrote that individual actions will not enable us to overcome global warming what I meant was that alone it cannot be enough - but it must happen for the world to find a way to live (in the end we all live as individuals) with the habits and lifestyles that will support a healthy planet. But as individuals together we can get utilities to abandon coal fired plants etc - through consumer or political action (including supporting appropriate legislation) -

I certainly did not mean to imply that individual actions are incorrect or futile and I try to do all I can in my small individual world.

[Vincent]

Bentley questions.

(view spoiler)[So I am going to try to answer Bentley's questions as restated by Teri

Here are the questions Bentley posted for us at the beginning of our discussion on the book. Has anything changed in your thoughts since reading the book?

1. Has reading this book changed your views about climate change in anyway? - Not really but has given it more perspectives - but also the book was in the midst of my Climate Reality Leadership training so lots of expansion of my perspectives with more optimism than before.

2. Did you find what you learned in this book alarming? - Not more alarming than I knew before - But I really didn't know about the acidification of the oceans and other details

3. What do you think about the example of the ammonite – they were perfectly adapted to their environment, but the catastrophic effects of the asteroid still resulted in their extinction. -
There was a sudden change in environment from a catastrophic event - I can accept that - with it comes the accepting that the earth and all we have could be just as vulnerable to a comparable event hitting us.

4. Do you see any way of slowing the acidification of the ocean? (pg118 tipping point is pH 7.8 – expected 2100) -
Reduction emission of co2 into the atmosphere.

5. Do you think the “islands on dry land” method of studying small ecosystems can help us to predict the effect of our actions our larger ecosystem?
I don;t know if it helps predict but it warns that these things will happen.

6. In some parts of the world the number of species has dropped, in some parts of the world the number of species has increased. How does this add to the difficulty of predicting the future?
I think that globally (not sure) it is decreasing. Not sure this changes prediction ability.

7. What percentage Neanderthal are you?
Depends upon who you talk to - wife - friends - ex-wife etc.

8. How far would you go to stop a species from becoming extinct?
Good question. If I had it in my power I would take efforts if I could - trying to get animals onto the Endangered Species Listing etc -

9. Do you think that Kolbert remains unbiased about the subject?
So with 98 or 99% of climate scientists believing that global warming is real and a danger to our current eco systems what has her concern got to do with bias?

10. Do you think you will change the way you life and living habits as a result of reading this book?
No. (hide spoiler)]

[Vincent]

This is a really good book - not a fast read for me because it needed a lot of looking up and a lot of thinking time.

Thanks very much to all of you who joined in.

[Vincent]

Helga wrote: "I finished the book last week and enjoyed it alot. I would like to make more comments but just got on site the first time since last week as I live in Columbia, SC and if you might have seen we had..."

I am really so sorry for your suffering and I hope you and yours are all safe.

This storm is part of a hydrological cycle (i think that is what Al Gore calls it) and after your tragedy is over if you contact the Climate Reality Project you could probably get a presentation on the subject for yourself, you family and interested friends.

I hope it is getting better.

[Teri]

Wonderful responses Vincent and I concur with all that you say. I learned, not just from the book, but from the discussions we had and I appreciate you all joining in.

And yes, you should probably put a spoiler tag around message 291, just in case someone joins the discussion at a later time or decides to peruse the entire thread without completing the book first. Thank you. ;-)

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

I do send out my prayers and concern for our friends in the Carolinas. And thank you Vincent for your responses - some of them quite humorous.

[Helga]

Thanks Vincent for all of your great responses. I concur with you and thanks to everyone for the great discussions for this book.
The floods in SC were part of the hydrological cycle.
Thanks for all of your prayers. We are muddling through things and working on cleanup but grateful to be alive. We just lost 1 floor of our house and 2 cars but it could have been worse.

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Vincent - great info but could you move message 297 to the glossary spoiler thread. Thanks.

[Vincent]

Bentley wrote: "Vincent - great info but could you move message 297 to the glossary spoiler thread. Thanks."

don't see a glossary thread for read

[Teri]

Vincent - the glossary thread can be found at:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Kressel]

I didn't join you in this group read, but now that I'm reading Wild Ones, which is about how climate change is affecting the animal kingdom, I think I'll be reading The Sixth Extinction soon. Looking forward to reading this thread!

by Jon Mooallem

by Elizabeth Kolbert

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Good for you Kressel - the thread is always here and don't forget to look at the glossary spoiler one too.

[Teri]

Kressel wrote: "I didn't join you in this group read, but now that I'm reading Wild Ones, which is about how climate change is affecting the animal kingdom, I think I'll be reading "

I'll have to add Wild Ones to my TBR pile. I look forward to your comments on The Sixth Extinction!

by Elizabeth Kolbert
by Jon Mooallem

[Kressel]

I finished the book! Now I'll have to catch up on all your comments!

[Teri]

Kressel wrote: "I finished the book! Now I'll have to catch up on all your comments!"

Please do! Would love to read yours. ;-)