Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion
Bulletin Board
>
What stops you from reading self-published novels?
Cheesy, handmade covers...why? Because to me it indicates a rush to publish. If I read a few pages and find a lot of errors....I say no thanks since it usually indicates they didn't get an impartial editor.I have read a LOT of self published books and most of them have been awesome.
But some self published stuff is so bad, so poor it makes me wince.
Take the time to refine your work. I'll read it and you'll be happy about the reviews
The cover. If a cover is tacky, I won't look twice. But if the cover is well-done, then it makes me at least read the blurb. Once I've started reading a self-published novel, it had better be well-edited. That will kill a book for me faster than anything.
I am both a reader and a writer of self-published books.
Arabella wrote: "Cheesy, handmade covers...why? Because to me it indicates a rush to publish. If I read a few pages and find a lot of errors....I say no thanks since it usually indicates they didn't get an impartia..."Covers are so important, aren't they?
Lori wrote: "The cover. If a cover is tacky, I won't look twice. But if the cover is well-done, then it makes me at least read the blurb. Once I've started reading a self-published novel, it had better be wel..."
Do you seek out self-published work, now that you're an indie writer? I know a lot of authors taking the self-publishing route become more aware of others' efforts, and try to support that.
To be quite honest, I read almost entirely self-published material. Some of it is so well written, it's hard to believe it wasn't traditionally published. I think perhaps there are a lot more people these days who are more willing to self-publish without ever trying to go the traditional route.
Lori wrote: "To be quite honest, I read almost entirely self-published material. Some of it is so well written, it's hard to believe it wasn't traditionally published."That's very nice to hear, Lori! I've had both very good and very bad experiences with indie books...but I can easily say the same of traditionally published work.
I am an avid reader and a self-published author. Since I started writing my own book, I read only other self-published authors. I really don't care what the cover looks like. I don't care what the reviews say. I "open" the book and start reading. If I like the author's style, and if the grammar and spelling aren't so terrible that it distracts me from the plot, then I will give it a chance. I write as many reviews as I possible can, but only if I can give the book four or five stars. I have found some excellent authors since I have been reading self-published novels. I have written close to two hundred reviews.
Peggy, That's great! I'm trying to get better at writing reviews for books I've purchased.I'm self-pub and never submitted to an agent/publisher. However, I did have it edited by pros.
I usually read the sample before purchasing, unless the book was written by an author I'd read before. The reasons that would stop me from reading a self-published book are the same reasons that would stop me from reading a trad published book....too many errors and a story that doesn't entertain. I can live with the errors if the story entertains. In fact, I've continued to purchase and read a series even though the errors were numerous. The story entertained.
If a book's cover grabs me and the blurb interests me, I wouldn't notice if the book was self-pub or traditional. I admit, out of curiosity, since I've self-published, that I sometimes look to see who published a book when I'm browsing on Amazon.
The bottom line is a good, well-edited story is a good, well-edited story, regardless of how it came to be.
To be honest, I don't care if a book is self-published or not. I mean, there's no discrimination.
The only thing that turns me off in a book that most self-published works do have is the bad cover design. It is what will catch the attention of the reader first hand, along with the title, and it should be inviting or average-looking at the very least. Aside from that, there's nothing else.
As long as the synopsis is good, whether self-published or not, the book should attract its target readers (including myself). ;)
The only thing that turns me off in a book that most self-published works do have is the bad cover design. It is what will catch the attention of the reader first hand, along with the title, and it should be inviting or average-looking at the very least. Aside from that, there's nothing else.
As long as the synopsis is good, whether self-published or not, the book should attract its target readers (including myself). ;)
Vicki wrote: "Angelica wrote: "To be honest, I don't care if a book is self-published or not. I mean, there's no discrimination.
The only thing that turns me off in a book that most self-published works do have..."
It is a combination of both but the synopsis weighs more for me because it is where the content will revolve around and, in turn, it is the content that will actually determine the book's personal value to me :-)
The only thing that turns me off in a book that most self-published works do have..."
It is a combination of both but the synopsis weighs more for me because it is where the content will revolve around and, in turn, it is the content that will actually determine the book's personal value to me :-)
Although the cover might attract my eye, it's the blurb that draws me in. Good cover, bad blurb = no. Mediocre cover, great blurb = yes.I've been reading self-published at a ratio of 80:20, and that ratio was skewed because I bought the whole GRRM A Song of Ice and Fire series for my iPad.
I'm currently reading four books at the same time, all self-published, but I'm hard to please.
One of the four books is
, which I already read and reviewed. I loaded it into my new smartphone and I'm re-reading it, which to me is a sure sign of a great book. (Memo to self: I should check out Joseph Garraty's other books.)So far I've been pretty good a selecting self-published books whose quality rivals or exceeds that of trade published books.
But the question is, what STOPS me from reading self-published books.
If a book has a bad cover, I won't even look at it. Yes, I know there could be a great novel underneath, but if the author is not interested to slap a cover on his work that at least *looks* professional, I assume they don't approach the rest of their profession in a professional manner. Every time I checked a sample, my suspicions were confirmed. And as I already have a long TBR list, I'm not actively seeking out new reading material unless the author makes an effort to appear professional.
If the cover looks good, but the blurb sucks, I might still check out the sample. If the sample delivers, I might even contact the author and offer critique on the blurb. Writing a blurb is alien to most authors, so I can understand if they flounder. If the sample sucks... Well, it's useless to varnish a turd.
So the sample and the cover must appear professional, otherwise I won't even touch it.
Nothing stops me from reading self-published novels.Before I bought an e-reader I was not even aware of the fact that there was such a thing like self-published books.
I thought the books were cheaper just because they had not been translated into German ( my first language) and because of the non existent printing costs when a book is being published electronically.
Since then I have found myself reading self-published books almost exclusively.
I don´t care about the cover! How many times am I going to look at it, when it is only on my reading device and not something I can put on a book shelf? Not more than twice or so. The first time when I tip on the screen to start reading it and then the second time, when I delete it from my e-reader. I have read fantastic books with covers others would consider ugly.
My decision to read a particular book is mostly based on the synopsis and sometimes on the reviews on this site; or the lack of them. I think: "No reviews? Why?" and then start reading.
I admit that over the last year I downloaded a lot of freebies without even reading a sample. And even if I did, and the book had a lot of errors and a non-existing formatting but the story was otherwise gripping, I continued reading. Sometimes I continued reading even when the book was a struggle because I wanted to find out why other reviewers rated it with 4 or even 5 stars.
I try to leave a review on this site every time I finish a book. But I have no problem to use the full range of the rating system. If I think the book was rubbish, I say so. If it has formatting and editing issues, I will mention it.
I have to say that I am often wondering why so many writers put their work out there without polishing it.
Why they take the risk of being down-rated just because of the technical issues of their work.
I read somewhere that this is like showing up at a beauty pageant with an odd stain on the gown...
ETA: for clarification
What compels me as a reader? Quite simply that the story or subject material looks interesting. Yes, the cover is going to play some part in that of course because it is the first thing you notice. Just as important is the blurb. You need to know what a book is about - at least if it might interest you - before you can be interested in buying it. I do buy books if they appear to be interesting or different, both conventional and SP. The sample concerns me less just so long as it is well written. I don't see the need for the first chapter to be the most compelling, but I am old fashioned and don't mind having the scene set. If I see the first chapter is full of spelling errors (one or two might be forgivable) or has really poor use of English that is likely to put me right off.As a UK reader and writer, I have to make concessions for different spelling and grammar in US books, but that really is a non-issue. You should be able tell if spelling and grammar is regional! I am not convinced that all readers do, but I do. The beauty of good SP books is that the content is not tinkered with and gutted by editors. To me there is a world of difference between editing the errors out of a story and filleting it totally so that it has no personality, description or characterization. The books can afford to be different, creative and true to the writer's thoughts rather than clones of what a publisher knows will sell. Does that make sense?
Finally as a reader with limited time and diminishing sight, I tend to buy and read one book at a time, I choose carefully and I review when I enjoy it so the "good" is shared. I let the not so good sink!
I'm put off by errors of spelling and grammar in the book's description. When I see those, I just know the book is going to be illiterate rubbish, not worth wasting my time on. Absent any such indicator, I'm not interested in whether a book is traditionally or independently published.
I have found four or five self published authors that I believe have put a great deal of effort into their books. I will faithfully stay with those SPAs plus my favorite traditional authors. I've only come across one book by an SPA that I felt was just too sloppy to enjoy the book completely even though I finished the book. That particular author did PM me and asked nicely why I gave the book the rating I did. I nicely explained what I saw as the book issues and we both moved on. It was a free kindle book. I read it and deleted it from my cloud when I was done and it's no longer on any of my Goodreads shelves. So, that being said if I'm comfortable with the book subject and the author I will read the book.
From the reader reviews I have gained I can tell you the best of stories is shackled by its errors. Happily I have been able to correct those found but one should not be using reviewers as proof readers.My (now) proof reader tells me the problem is you get into a book, you like it and any error just screams at you and inhibits the flow of your reading. Most readers know all books have one or two errors in them but one a page? More than five in a book?
I read a lot of non-fiction and for some reason this is not so hampered by errors as fiction. Covers for digital books are only there from tradition, they have become a nicety. I always read blurb, if it sounds good I will read on.
At Amazon I often read a lot of the reviews.
A cheesy cover will turn me away immediately. I won't even bother to read the blurb. I've gotten to where I look at my daily email from Book Bub and try to see if I can spot the homemade covers. It's a sick game, but I like it. :)If the cover is good, the blurb is the next step. My thought is that a blurb is short enough that it should contain NO errors. None. If it's full of comma splices and misplaced apostrophes, you've lost me, because I hold out no hope for the writing inside the book to be any better.
Truly, I never look to see if a book is traditionally published or self-pubbed, because unless it says "CreateSpace" or something obvious, I can't tell the small presses from the people who self-pub but give their books a clever publishing name like "My Basement Productions."
I noticed Martyn V. mentioned Voice as one of his rereads, and I will second that. I had no idea when I read it that it was self-pubbed. The cover was great, the blurb hooked me, and the book itself was fascinating. I really need to review it, because it deserves the promo. (And it will give me a wonderful excuse to reread it.)
The only thing that stops me from reading self-published books is I don't know about them. I will read anything that I know about obviously. I love GR because I find out about self-published books, ones I normally wouldn't know about. It's all about exposure.
The cover has a small influence on whether or not I'll give a book a chance. I don't expect it to be flawless, but if it's clear that no effort or thought went into it, no dice. The main determining factors are the blurb and the sample. As other posters mentioned, if the blurb has obvious mechanical issues, the manuscript will be a disaster. That being said, I don't need the copy editing to be perfect, but it damn well better be coherent. A while back I sampled some self pub zombie novel that had, "Runn! Theirs to many of them!" on the first page.
Reed wrote: "A while back I sampled some self pub zombie novel that had the sentence, "Runn! Theirs to many of them!" on the FIRST PAGE."How long did it take you to stop crying?
Lynda wrote: "Reed wrote: "A while back I sampled some self pub zombie novel that had the sentence, "Runn! Theirs to many of them!" on the FIRST PAGE."How long did it take you to stop crying?"
The crying subsided in a few short moments. The nightmares will last a lifetime.
Lynda wrote: "I noticed Martyn V. mentioned Voice as one of his rereads, and I will second that. I had no idea when I read it that it was self-pubbed. The cover was great, the blurb hooked me, and the book itself was fascinating. I really need to review it, because it deserves the promo. (And it will give me a wonderful excuse to reread it.)"The thing is, you shouldn't be 'pleasantly surprised' by the professional quality of a self-published book. Which is why I'm pretty tough on bad SPAs and if 'authors' say that I should 'support my peers', I tell them that these SPAs are not my peers, so they don't deserve my support.
An author like Joseph Garraty deserves my support, because the quality of his work is indistinguishable from trade published books. As it should be.
I long for the day when I'm surprised that a self-pub book does NOT meet professional standards. I can't see it happening any time soon, though.Yes, high quality should be expected, and I'm happy to promote those ones in any way I can. I'm also happy to tell others to run from the low-quality novels, and not afraid of backlash.
I am not afraid of backlash either, but it gets tiring to mention in a review that the work would improve immensely from some proof readers, editors and an attempt to format it.I have promised myself from now on to investigate more thoroughly before I pick up the next self published read.
I don't think that it satisfies me any longer to be some kind of guinea pig for people who like to call themselves writers.
Lynda wrote: "I long for the day when I'm surprised that a self-pub book does NOT meet professional standards. I can't see it happening any time soon, though.Yes, high quality should be expected, and I'm happy to promote those ones in any way I can. I'm also happy to tell others to run from the low-quality novels, and not afraid of backlash."
That's very brave of you. When I asked this question, I honestly expected that fear was as much reason as quality.
Katerina wrote: "I don't think that it satisfies me any longer to be some kind of guinea pig for people who like to call themselves writers."Nor should it! Readers expect a certain level of quality. When we've put our own money out to purchase something, we deserve it.
Honestly I'm more disturbed by the lack of a good editing than typos. A lot of published books have error as well.IMO those are very disturbing elements:
Repetitions
Plot holes the size of potholes
Too much tell and little show
A character who changes the color of his/her eyes/hair/...
What stops you from picking up a self-published novel?1. Sometimes seeing an overused image on a cover. Example: I am a big fan of interracial romance novels. There is this one couple that is used over and over. When I see them on a book it's an automatic skip. Mainly because the ones I've read before featuring them, weren't winners for me.
2. Obvious spelling or grammar errors in the blurb. It doesn't bode well for what's inside. Spelling in particular because that isn't even an editing issue, more of spell-check fail.
What compels you to give one a chance?
1. Something in the blurb grabs my attention.
2. Explores different themes than what's offered in traditionally published books.
3. A rave review from a trusted book buddy.
Randolph wrote: "A lot of them are bad. Everyone thinks they have written the next Great Novel. We all have finite lives and wasting them to assess someone else's work that cannot get a conventional publishing deal that has a low probability of payoff is wasteful. We aren't paid to be editors. The predominance of bogus or obviously inflated reviews just adds to the bad taste.I know there are truly budding Prousts out there that got a lot of rejections, but they are well less than 1% of the self-published authors."
One percent? I wouldn't go that far. From what I've heard, many traditionally published authors are obligated to market and promote themselves, and a lot of them simply feel that if they're going to do all the work themselves, they might as well keep the bulk of the profit and self publish.
I'd call it about fifty-fifty on the quality front.
Jen wrote: "From what I've heard, many traditionally published authors are obligated to market and promote themselves, and a lot of them simply feel that if they're going to do all the work themselves, they might as well keep the bulk of the profit and self publish."Well said Jen! From what I have seen most publishers leave it to authors to market their own work.
Lisa wrote: "From what I have seen most publishers leave it to authors to market their own work."That's so bizarre to me. Unless the author has already made a name for themselves, what advantage is there in getting a contract?
The answer is none! Also, if an advance IS paid and the author genuinely sucks at marketing their own work they are chained to that publisher for life. Marketing does not use the same skill set as creative writing anymore than editing and formating do.
What stops me:- Covers that are low quality, cheesy, or seem to have nothing to do with the content of the book.
- An author who I have had bad interactions with before, or I know my friends have had bad interactions with.
- Spelling and grammar issues, usually you can spot these by reading the blurb and the sample alone but sometimes those portions are clean.
- Trope-heavy works. If I am reading a self published piece instead of a mainstream its because I am tired of mainstream publishers looking for the most cliche, tropey manuscripts ever. I don't want that in SP'd books too. Be innovative, test the limits, do something crazy...tried and true sometimes sucks.
What I like:
- Something unique that would have been turned away from a mainstream publisher. I love "fringe" fiction, and it's the main thing I look for in SP'd works.
Stefani wrote: "What I like:- Something unique that would have been turned away from a mainstream publisher. I love "fringe" fiction, and it's the main thing I look for in SP'd works."
Absolutely, me too Stefani! I love unique, uninhibited stories that are generally well presented.
I read a lot of self published authors, some of my favorite authors currently are or started out as self pubs. I think for me it's a good description of the book that gets me to pick up any book regardless of the cover. Truthfully a few of the best books I've read had essentially blank covers, I don't let that deter me. However what will make me return a book in a heartbeat or give a bad review is horrible editing. No one is perfect, and I come across errors in books by major publishing houses all the time but when it's so bad you can't follow what's going on it or it's constant that will steer me away from reading anything else from that author.
I know many authors struggle to find the money to pay for editing. But guess what? Purchasing a book on Amazon is not the same as donating to a Kickstarter campaign. Don't want to pay for editing before you publish? Then I go read the next author who has saved up to have their book edited, even and especially if it took them years to do it. The author who thinks they can get free money out of me to pay for their work to be edited is going to have a rude awakening.
Kevis wrote: "I know many authors struggle to find the money to pay for editing. But guess what? Purchasing a book on Amazon is not the same as donating to a Kickstarter campaign. Don't want to pay for editing b..."Kevis, that's a pretty good comparison. There are many authors here on GR who have talked about eating beans & rice for months just to save up the money for a good editor and a good cover artist. Readers should not be responsible for something that should have been done prior to publishing. I really admire the authors who are willing to wait until they can do it properly before publishing.
The only thing that is really stopping me, is that I can't usually find them or if I have and they're of such high quality, I've never realized they were self published.When I know it self published, the cover must draw me in to want to find out what the book is about. If it pulls me in I look at the blurb. If it makes the book sound interesting I download a sample and check it out. If the book looks cheap or doesn't pull me in, I move on.
What makes me put a book down is obvious lack of editing. And by obvious I mean several errors every few pages as if they didn't even have a beta reader or a friend to help proof read. Grammar issues and plot holes don't usually turn me off unless they're crippling but that's because I find those issue in traditionally published books. Heck, my fiancee found a 3 major inconsistencies and a plot hole in Inheritance from the Eragon series when reading it last week and we all know that book (and series) is traditionally published and rather popular.
(OOOH but Eragon was so derivative and to my mind unoriginal. Not surprised in the least. Had to drag myself through that and have never read Eldest...But Knopf (the publisher) should have done better.)
Arabella wrote: "(OOOH but Eragon was so derivative and to my mind unoriginal. Not surprised in the least. Had to drag myself through that and have never read Eldest...But Knopf (the publisher) should have done be..."
Interesting note: Eragon was originally a self-published title.
yep....but not for long! It helped a whole lot that his dad, I believe worked or knew someone who worked at Knopf
I don't really have an opinion on the book (and series) myself because I haven't actually ready any of them. I've thought about it but then think of other things I'd rather read first. But since it was such a recent find it was the most fresh in my mind and I figured it was worth mentioning anyways.Jen wrote: Interesting note: Eragon was originally a self-published title.
The first book was at least. If I remember correctly the rest of the series had been published under the "The Big Guys".
(Alfred Knopf---about as big as they come)What Eragon DOES point out--is there is always that chance that something Indie published willget picked up and go viral by one of the Big Five publishing houses in NY
As a trained designer, bad covers send me running. But I can overlook that if the summary is well written - which points to good writing in general. Although, i've seen far too many synopsis on Amazon with grammatical/spelling errors.
Lori wrote: "To be quite honest, I read almost entirely self-published material. Some of it is so well written, it's hard to believe it wasn't traditionally published. I think perhaps there are a lot more peo..."
Lori, i am a SP author and never bothered to go the trad pub route. i saw no reason to inflict punishment on myself by sending bazillion letters to agents/publishers and getting as many rejections.
Dannielle wrote: "As a trained designer, bad covers send me running. But I can overlook that if the summary is well written - which points to good writing in general. Although, i've seen far too many synopsis on Ama..."Yeah, errors in the blurb are an instant turnoff. It's a small thing that REALLY needs to be done right.
I'm pretty much like most folks here. I'll forgive a bad cover if the blurb looks interesting and is well written. I won't forgive an atrocious one, but bad ones are rampant. I think most people just don't know a good one from a bad one, so you really can't go by that unless the cover is just so awful it stands out. I always use the "look inside" feature, even on traditionally published works. I can tell within a few pages if the style and skill of writing will appeal to me or not. I've read an awful lot of amateur writing, and it's not hard to suss out if something's going to be readable or not. Lots of typos, screwed up POV, excessive passive voice, dumb dialog, terrible descriptions, clunky adverbs...I'm not going to be able to slog through all that. And that's the sort of thing that is pretty readily apparent. A writer can clean up typos in her first chapter, but if she can't put a sentence together, that's harder to hide.
Lori wrote: "The cover. If a cover is tacky, I won't look twice. But if the cover is well-done, then it makes me at least read the blurb. Once I've started reading a self-published novel, it had better be wel..."
I agree with you cover vise. That is the first thing reader sees and it can persuade him to read the blurb and eventually, buy the book. If the cover looks unprofessional ( like it's made in Paint) , the would assume that the book is not edited and the story - bad.
More than few of my readers mentioned that the book cover was "the thing" that got them interested in the story. I guess that investing in professional cover artist can really make the difference.
Investing in a professional cover artist absolutely CAN make a difference. I have no doubt my cover nets me sales. It was not cheap, but I feel it is worth the investment. I paid someone to do cover paintings for me, and then did the design myself. However, I am a professional designer. If you are not a professional designer, hire one. And I should add that owning Photoshop or Illustrator does not make you a designer.
Having said that, I should probably add that yes, I am totally attracted to an interesting and professional looking cover. It will catch my eye and make me take a look. Absolutely.
However, knowing what I know about the scene, and about how hard it is to find help on this front, and knowing how expensive it is, I won't NOT look at an otherwise interesting indie book if the cover looks as bad to me as most of them do.
But it can't look any worse. ;-)
Goodreads Authors/Readers
Books mentioned in this topic
Science Fiction (other topics)Vox (other topics)
The Discovery of Heaven (other topics)
A Tale of Two Cities (other topics)
Life With a Fire-Breathing Girlfriend (other topics)
More...
What stops you from picking up a self-published novel?
What compels you to give one a chance?