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What stops you from reading self-published novels?
Moonlight Reader wrote: "Some authors think that it is an acceptable marketing tactic to only edit the first 10%, which is the part that shows as the sample."I hope the readers who discover such unfortunate practices leave reviews specifying such issues. I would!
Jen wrote: "Moonlight Reader wrote: "Some authors think that it is an acceptable marketing tactic to only edit the first 10%, which is the part that shows as the sample."I hope the readers who discover such..."
I can't see anyone actually doing that. Readers would just buy it and return it, with how simple it is to return an ebook.
My last books went through eleven rounds of editing. I can't speak for anyone else, but as a self-published author, I try to hold myself to a standard even higher than traditionally-published books as recompense to the reader for spending their time and money on my work. I suspect many self-published authors feel this way.
Lena wrote: "I can't see anyone actually doing that. Readers would just buy it and return it, with how simple it is to return an ebook."Unfortunately, you assume that every reader will get to every ebook purchased w/in the 7-day return window. Not so. (For me, not even close.)
If you read the Kindle version of David Guterson's Snow Falls on Cedars you will find that they only checked the scan for the first half of the novel and the level of errors goes through the roof after that. This for a trad published NYT bestseller.
Mercia wrote: "If you read the Kindle version of David Guterson's Snow Falls on Cedars you will find that they only checked the scan for the first half of the novel and the level of errors goes through the roof a..."Why am I not surprised?
Karma♥Bites ^.~ wrote: "Lena wrote: "I can't see anyone actually doing that. Readers would just buy it and return it, with how simple it is to return an ebook."Unfortunately, you assume that every reader will get to eve..."
I have over a thousand unread books on my kindle & another 300 or so print books on bookshelves.
Moonlight Reader wrote: "I have over a thousand unread books on my kindle & another 300 or so print books on bookshelves."Thank you! I feel much better about the two dozen I haven't gotten to now...
I don't download more than I expect to read in a few weeks, mostly the free ones, but when I do pay for a book I read it right away, being aware of the return policy.
Ken wrote: "I don't download more than I expect to read in a few weeks, mostly the free ones, but when I do pay for a book I read it right away, being aware of the return policy."Me too Ken. I see no point paying if I don't desperately want to read it!
Lisa wrote: "Ken wrote: "I don't download more than I expect to read in a few weeks, mostly the free ones, but when I do pay for a book I read it right away, being aware of the return policy."Me too Ken. I se..."
I am the digital version of the crazy cat lady. Fortunately, kindle books don't urinate on my carpet or spawn litters of kittens.
Moonlight Reader wrote: "I am the digital version of the crazy cat lady. Fortunately, kindle books don't urinate on my carpet or spawn litters of kittens."I love that! :) Thank you for the smile, from an analogue cat lady to a digital one! By the way I have to ask you, do you know the collective nouns for cats and kittens? A clowder of cats and a KINDLE of kittens :D
=^@@^= ><))*> =^@@^= ><))*> =^@@^= ><))*>
Moonlight Reader wrote: "Lisa wrote: "Ken wrote: "I don't download more than I expect to read in a few weeks, mostly the free ones, but when I do pay for a book I read it right away, being aware of the return policy."Me ..."
Me, too. I've got around 600 books on my Kindle waiting for me.
Mercia wrote: "If you read the Kindle version of David Guterson's Snow Falls on Cedars you will find that they only checked the scan for the first half of the novel and the level of errors goes through the roof a..."Yes, I've noticed a lot of publishers don't do a lot of QA on the back-list titles they've transformed into eBooks. A great deal of them have lots of OCR-related glitches that go uncorrected.
Gregor wrote: "Moonlight Reader wrote: "Lisa wrote: "Ken wrote: "I don't download more than I expect to read in a few weeks, mostly the free ones, but when I do pay for a book I read it right away, being aware o..."Wow! I guess ebooks are the only thing I DON'T hoard. I rarely pay for the ones I download, and like paper books, I usually get ebooks from my library, which means they disappear from my device when they are due.
Moonlight Reader wrote: "I am the digital version of the crazy cat lady. Fortunately, kindle books don't urinate on my carpet or spawn litters of kittens."LMAO!! I may have to borrow this, even tho we can't have cats. :D
(Unlike you, I keep my Kindle fairly light. But to date, I've over 1500 ebook--mostly premium/trad pub--in calibre waiting for me. I went a bit crazy w/ the one-click when my Kindle was fairly new & I was on sick leave. Hence, my 2013-into-2014 NYR. ^.~)
Lena wrote: "Wow! I guess ebooks are the only thing I DON'T hoard. I rarely pay for the ones I download,..."Huh. I never really thought of buying books in which I was interested as 'hoarding' b/c by virtue of expending cash, I plan to read them at some point. But OK, to each their own.
OTOH, now that you disclosed that you rarely pay for what you DL, I see why you readily assumed that everyone reads a purchased ebook w/in Amazon's 7-day return window.
Jen wrote: "I've started a group both to promote great indies, as well as provide a safe place for readers to discover new authors. To aid the process, I have a couple questions for readers:What stops you fr..."
I usually go for word-of-mouth novels about subject matter I find appealing. Doesn't matter if it's self-published or not. Now that I'm a self-published author I actually prefer self published work. Still looking for good ones.
-Andrew
andrewjfrischerz.com
Not to me---its just a marketing ploy. The more you sell the more it is hoped that you reach some of these readers and they'll actually read the book they paid 99 cents for and then of course, read anything else you publish
Christopher wrote: "That's actually a relief. As someone who's brand new to this entire process, I'm still trying to figure out what makes a book "click" for a reader. Writing, I can work on. Cover, ditto. Price...wha..."For me, I have been seduced into trying many new series by unfamiliar authors when the first book is $0.99. If it's good, I don't mind the increased price of the next installment.
Moonlight Reader wrote: "I have over a thousand unread books on my kindle & another 300 or so print books on bookshelves."You make me feel real good about myself... :D
I only have about five hundred unread books on my Kindle and ten print books I still have to read...
Christopher wrote: "That's actually a relief. As someone who's brand new to this entire process, I'm still trying to figure out what makes a book "click" for a reader. Writing, I can work on. Cover, ditto. Price...wha..."I don't want to devalue my work, so, while I have two short stories available for free downloads, I think that's enough for anyone to see if my work is interesting enough.
Also, since my novels are in the 100K word range, my samples are typically the first three or four chapters. If someone samples three chapters and doesn't want to fork over the few dollars to download my work, I guess my work is not interesting enough to them.
As to returns, I've been self-publishing since August 2012, but I've only had two returns and no real negative reviews, so I guess most people are satisfied that my books meet a professional standard.
What stops me from reading ANY novel is characters that I don't like. I have only stopped reading a book recently for that reason. Usually I will stay with it even through formatting issues or other items of report ie. grammar, spelling, etc. But if the story has unlikeable characters, oops, out of there.
I read/buy a book based on the blurb and 95% of my purchases are paperbacks. I do like the book to have a nice cover but it's not a deal breaker for me. I've read a few excellent books with appalling covers!However it is the price of self published books that stops me from buying more. I see LOTS on Amazon that attract my interest but it is often £11-£15 for a 200 page paperback and that is way outside my budget! I don't buy ebooks, I only download freebies to try new authors or take free copies from authors for review. So high prices is the big issue for me.
I charge 2.99 for my book on kindle. This is cheap for the reader and I still get two dollars per buy. That's a win-win in my opinion and the beauty if self publishing. It allows the best scenario for thereafter and writer. My next book will probably be 3.99 though, because it will be longer. Good luck.
I guess I should get used to spell checking before posting. My apologies.*of
*the reader
Christopher wrote: "Mmm... Here's the thing--there's a trade off between price and quality, right? Proper editing, book cover, interior file, all take $$. If I compromise on production quality...well, I wouldn't want ..."I don't think that you can have it both ways, Christopher. Either writing is a hobby in which you don't invest money, (in which case, why are you uploading a piece of unprofessional, hobbyist writing to a commercial website for sale) or it is a business.
I am a lawyer. My profession has significant requirements that I must meet in order to practice. There is an expensive educational investment at the beginning, there are on-going training requirements that I must participate in every year, there are certain standards of professional attire that I must maintain, my state bar association charges me dues every year (and they aren't cheap) and liability insurance requirements that I must meet, and there is expensive technology that I need in order to practice in my busy, connected world.
These things are required for my business.
On the flip side, you are a professional author, because you are selling your books on a commercial website. From the reader's perspective, I don't care if it costs you money that you will never recoup. That is the risk of self-publishing. Just like all of that money I've invested in my career is lost if I never get any clients is a risk of going into private practice. If you want to insulate yourself from those professional costs, then you can sign a contract with a legacy publisher, and they will bear the risk.
This attitude absolutely exemplifies one of the reasons self-publishing has a bad reputation.
There are lots of ways to hobby publish that don't include selling ebooks - websites like Wattpad, or blogs, etc, that make your content available for free. If you are going to go pro, then it is up to you to put out a product that is worthy of the name. Even if it costs you money you never get back.
Moonlight Reader wrote: "If you are going to go pro, then it is up to you to put out a product that is worthy of the name. Even if it costs you money you never get back. "Very well stated, Moonlight Reader. I agree with your entire comment. I am a pro pet photographer as well as a self-published author.
The investment in the education and photography equipment needed to get my business off the ground, along with marketing and advertising, was significant. It took some time before I actually saw a profit. Most of the funds were either going back into the business - as you mentioned, trade shows, continuing ed, etc - or for marketing. I'd say it was a good 2.5 years before I was able to build a promising client base and to start putting some of that money in my pocket. I no longer advertise my photography. My clients come strictly by word of mouth now.
I am completely aware that for my writing career I will need to invest the same, if not more, amount of work and money in order to build my writing business. Too many authors feel they need to place a dollar value immediately on their work in order to validate the time and effort they put into creating it. I think this is the wrong first step. The first step should be to build a customer base, a dedicated following of people who like what you have to offer. Readers, like myself, are hesitant to spend their money on unknowns. I know that when I lay out money to purchase a book it is usually for either a known author, or for an author that was recommended to me by a trusted reader friend. I do read a lot of indie published novels, but I either get them when they are free, or again, I will spend up to 2.99 on an unknown if they have been highly recommended to me by a trusted reader friend. I wouldn't expect anything else from my readers.
It took me over two years to write my novel and I did invest in the quality of it; i.e., copyediting, professional proofreaders, etc., continue to acquire education, attend seminars, conferences, and the like, and you know what? My book is available for FREE on Smashwords, and for .99 on Amazon (only because I can't figure out how to make it free on Amazon without joining Kindle Direct Publishing).
Again, very good points Moonlight Reader.
Dee wrote: "My book is available for FREE on Smashwords, and for .99 on Amazon (only because I can't figure out how to make it free on Amazon without joining Kindle Direct Publishing)."Dee, check out this thread if you want to get your book on Amazon for free. A lot of people have had success with it and you don't need to be in KDP Select.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
D.J. wrote: "Dee wrote: "My book is available for FREE on Smashwords, and for .99 on Amazon (only because I can't figure out how to make it free on Amazon without joining Kindle Direct Publishing)."Dee, check out this thread if you want to get your book on Amazon for free. A lot of people have had success with it and you don't need to be in KDP Select.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... "
Thanks D.J.!
Christopher wrote: "I understand the point you're making--I do. My point was simply that it is precisely because I do make those investments (in spades) that it's difficult to price the product too low. The necessity ..."I understand your point perfectly. My point is that your investment doesn't matter when you are pricing your book. You have to price at what the market will bear or you will not sell any books. The market for new self-published author seems to be between .99 and 2.99.
A book is a product. Whenever a seller starts a new business, there are investment costs that must be shouldered by the business owner. Some businesses operate in the red for years before they make a profit - the owner takes out loans, and works without pay, or works a second, paid job so that they can fund their side-business. They don't expect to recoup their costs any time soon, if ever. If you start a restaurant, there are extremely heavy capital investments, but that doesn't mean that you should try to charge $75.00 per hamburger in an effort to recoup those costs. You'll just go broke that way, because you'll never sell any hamburgers.
Being a self-published author is, in a way, extremely entrepreneurial. The vast majority of small businesses fail and when they fail, the investment is lost.
What I often see with self-published authors is that they act like a hobbyist, but think they should be rewarded like a professional. Amazon, in my opinion, is partly responsible for this by making the barrier to publication so low (i.e., zero). If amazon would put even a small "professionalism" fee on their platform, then I think we would see the professionalism in the self-published author class skyrocket.*
*No one ever agrees with me on this point. You don't need to launch into an argument about how that would be unfair or price poor artists out of the self-publishing market.
David wrote: "charging $2.99 for 34 pages!?!?"Who is charging $2.99 for 34 pages?
My only $2.99 ebook has 136. My only 99 cent book has 64. Seems about right to me.
Ken wrote: "My only $2.99 ebook has 136. My only 99 cent book has 64. Seems about right to me."This is only my perspective, so you can take it for what it is worth.
I don't pay for single novellas or short stories. I will buy bundled stories or novellas, but generally, I only buy novels that are at least 350 pages. Shorts, to me, should be free teaser content on blogs.
Unless the author is Neil Gaiman. If the author is Neil Gaiman, I would pay .99 for his grocery list, and I'm sure it would be awesome.
I read really fast - I would read a 136 page novella in an hour or so. A 64 page story wouldn't even last me the time it takes to fly from Portland to Boise.
Moonlight Reader wrote: "From the reader's perspective, I don't care if it costs you money that you will never recoup. That is the risk of self-publishing. Just like all of that money I've invested in my career is lost if I never get any clients is a risk of going into private practice. "Where that analogy breaks down is that there is a typical business case for private legal work that suggests that there will be a return on investment. The business case is not there for the amounts that many here are talking about investing in a single book when the average income for self or trad pubbed authors is about $1000 per year. The word hobbyist does not apply to those who restrict spending on these things, but on those who invest unsustainable amounts in contradiction of good business sense. The amount that needs to be spent is relative to the talents of the author. Self-editing did not seem to affect the sales of Wool too much. But it is still difficult to work out which ones are wool and which are just fluff.
Mercia wrote: "Moonlight Reader wrote: "From the reader's perspective, I don't care if it costs you money that you will never recoup. That is the risk of self-publishing. Just like all of that money I've investe..."The analogy is valid. The fact that self-publishing is a lower return business doesn't mean that the analogy fails. It means that most authors should find a different (or additional) line of work, because they aren't able to make a return on their investment in the one they have chosen. The risk to return ratio is extremely unfavorable.
I do agree that the amount that needs to spent can vary relative to the quality of the original piece of work. However, based upon the Dunning-Krueger effect, I submit that the less talented/competent the author, the more likely it is that the author will overestimate the quality of the work and will fail to invest the necessary amount to bring the work to a reasonable standard of quality.
Mainly I think it's a case of out of sight, out of mind. You really have to go out of your way to find self-published books in genres you read; traditionally-published ones have a way of finding you. Which is unfortunate, as the caliber of a lot of the SP books I've read and reviewed is very high indeed!
Moonlight Reader...your point -about a "professionalism" fee brings up what a friend of mine suggested Amazon do: charge a fee for books that haven't sold anything in a stated amount of time...two years perhaps? It might clean up the field a bit and get rid of the dross from those who have and probably only intended to write one book for the thrill....
I don't see the problem with self publishing one book. Some people only write one book, no matter how they publish. If people don't want to read a sp novel, that's their choice. They won't be lacking reading material.
Richard wrote: "Sigh... I swore I'd stay out of this debate...Moonlight Reader wrote:
Either writing is a hobby in which you don't invest money...
Wait a minute... What!? Who doesn't invest money in their hobbi..."
Based on the quality of some of the books I've read, I will agree that the author claims to have invested money in the process. It is, of course, possible that they got scammed (because not understanding anything about writing a book makes one susceptible to scam), or it is possible that they are making claims that are untrue.
Richard!!You know what I mean!
If the stuff just sits there--no one's visited it---kind of an abandoned book...its not saying you can't have it there...its to get the people who wrote the book to think about their effort. Is it worth promoting? Is it something I'll pay a fee for because its time hasn't come yet?
Paying a fee wouldn't delete the book...its a way to force interest by the author into their work IMHO
Richard wrote: "Sigh... I swore I'd stay out of this debate...Moonlight Reader wrote:
Either writing is a hobby in which you don't invest money...
Wait a minute... What!? Who doesn't invest money in their hobbi..."
Vary, very few hobbies are free. Some are very expensive. However I have sometimes wondered if really large amounts of outlay = incompetence. Or at least a very poor understanding of how publishing works and likely rewards.
Really professional looking packaging probably does involve a certain amount of investment, but I'm quite certain there are people out there making at least some money who haven't invested anything except time and the price of a copy of MS Word and maybe a stock photo or two and a style manual.
At heart, self-publishing is kind of like a bake sale. The end product does not need to resemble the one that comes from a commercial bakery, but it must taste good. No-one wants the lumpy under baked oatmeal cookies with spinach and alfalfa flavored chips.
I've also wondered about recommendations from a search engine ( or whatever does the recommendations on Amazon)...but some people have a small circle of friends who don't read a lot..
Richard wrote: "D.C. wrote: "At heart, self-publishing is kind of like a bake sale. The end product does not need to resemble the one that comes from a commercial bakery, but it must taste good. No-one wants the l..."Thanks.
What happened to the idea that a self-published book should be indistinguishable from a traditionally published book that we were talking about back on the first couple pages.Because I buy stuff at bake sales to support my kid's school. But authors aren't an institution of learning that is educating my kid, nor are they a charity. Or are we back to the idea that readers should lower their quality expectations because, you know, it's cheap.
Full circle.
Moonlight Reader wrote: "What happened to the idea that a self-published book should be indistinguishable from a traditionally published book that we were talking about back on the first couple pages.Because I buy stuff ..."
I'm actually not a proponent of the "must be indistinguishable" school. Must be readable, yes, but why are we bothering if homogeneity is the goal?
To continue the bake sale analogy, I once bought some lovely little shortbread thumbprint things filled with orange marmalade. I thought that they were delicious, but no commercial bakery would ever have bothered with such an item. They were kind of homely, and I think there must have been a pound of butter in that recipe, and the marmalade was the imported kind with HUGE chunks of peel in it that's bitter to some people's palates. And I'm sure anyone who regularly patronizes bake sales has run into some spectacular and quirky hits along with the misses and the box of commercial cookies that a baking challenged mom with a full schedule provided.
Anyway, you get the point. E-books need to be worth reading, just like those thumbprint things were worth eating, but they don't need to look like they came from one of the big Six and it can sometimes be kind of fun when they don't, but they must be reasonably well-written and adhere to grammatical standards.
D.C. wrote: "Moonlight Reader wrote: "What happened to the idea that a self-published book should be indistinguishable from a traditionally published book that we were talking about back on the first couple pa..."I don't think that all trad published books look alike, so I don't really understand it when people say that traditional publishing puts out homogenous books.
If you want to see homogenous, look at the self-published books that are shelved NA. They are all the same story, with basically the same cover, over and over and over. Certain readers love them, though.
D.C. wrote: "E-books need to be worth reading, just like those thumbprint things were worth eating, but they don't need to look like they came from one of the big Six and it can sometimes be kind of fun when they don't, but they must be reasonably well-written and adhere to grammatical standards."I'm changing my standards now to state that what stops me from reading anyone's novel is a lack of cookies included with each purchase. D.C., you're making me hungry.
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I think they'd have been better off just waiting.