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[Geoff (G. Robbins) (merda constat variat altitudo)]

I genuinely don't know which is worse, the body giving out or the mind, having seen both.

[M.T.]

Thanks for the hugs everyone. I'm at the old dears now. Mum is a lot more with it - after the last trip to hospital she had a U.T.I. but also a lung infection. Had atibiotics for both an seems much more perky. Also because she has more help now I think life is easier again. It's balancing her pride with the risk of exhaustion. It's looking more like a lack of blood to the head thing this visit. That's grim but it won't change who she is so we will muddle through.

Their carers are ace, too, which helps.

Hugs back y'all!

Cheers

MTM

[Desley (Cat fosterer)]

Geoff (G. Robbins) (The noisy passionfruit) wrote: "I genuinely don't know which is worse, the body giving out or the mind, having seen both."

No, I don't.

Glad your mum is better, it's strange how a UTI can affect the mind

[Anita]

Pleased to hear that Mary, hope things will calm down a bit for you all.

[Jim]

UTI's do in 'elderly' people. I've seen it happen in my late Father in Law.
They can go from perfectly lucid to completely away with the faeries very quickly, and can come back equally quickly. It's so fast it's almost a symptom.

[Alicia]

Jim wrote: "UTI's do in 'elderly' people. I've seen it happen in my late Father in Law.
It's so fast it's almost a symptom.."

It IS a symptom, if the caretaker is paying attention. We lost my MIL that way, and it was criminal.

[Pam]

Broken bones can do the same, I think because impurities get into the bloodstream.

[Kay (Golden Girl)]

Talking about UTI'S I have one at moment (for last 2 weeks)I just hope I am still lucid and not away with the fairies. And I am elderly.

my family sometimes think I have dementia but honest I haven't ??

[✿Claire✿]

Big hugs for you too Mary.

UTIs are bizarre, and one of the symptoms we look for is a behavioural change or sudden confusion. The good thing is, as long as they get antibiotics etc in time, they tend to return to almost normal fairly quickly.
I met a lady yesterday who is suffering a disorder that's caused memory loss. She was absolutely lovely and great fun to chat to but it was heartbreaking when she mentioned her children and I asked how old they were and she couldn't remember.

I would agree, I'm not sure which is worse to see.

[Patti (baconater)]

Kay (Golden Girl) wrote: "Talking about UTI'S I have one at moment (for last 2 weeks)I just hope I am still lucid and not away with the fairies. And I am elderly.

my family sometimes think I have dementia but honest I hav..."

I think an occasional faerie visit is lovely.

[Jim]

Patti (baconater) wrote: "
I think an occasional faerie visit is lovely...."


your version of Faerie may have been formed more by Disney than Pratchett ;-)

[Patti (baconater)]

Probably, as I've never read Prachett.

[Jim]

Patti (baconater) wrote: "Probably, as I've never read Prachett."

faerie isn't lovely in Pratchett, he goes back to the older tradition :-)

[Philip (sarah)]

Glad to hear you're mum is doing better Mary.
Hugs for Kay, hope your UTI clears up soon.

[Lynne (Tigger's Mum)]

I think the problem with the UTI and confusion is twofold. My MIL was seeing cats in her ward in hospital, so it's a real disturbance mentally. Once she recovered she was absolutely fine but the geriatrician said to my husband that at her age what did he expect, but the week before she took ill she was totally lucid and capable. She cooked for herself and kept house and even shopped for a younger neighbour. But you have to drink plenty of fluids and getting to the loo in time can be a real problem with reduced mobility, so people drink less and the UTI kicks in hard. Then dehydration and concentration of the infection hits hard on other organs. When she recovered she went back home and was well enough to continue at home for a few years.

[Kath]

My mum had a series of UTIs. She would get the antibiotics - very quickly because we were used to it and looking out for the symptoms - but although she came back up again, it was never quite as far up. Looked at over a period of time it was like the way the bounce in a ball decays. Sad.

[Vanessa (aka Dumbo)]

I had one a while back. I was going through a depressive time and I went to bed early on the Friday and honestly couldn't be bothered if I lived or died. The next thing I knew was a policeman touching my cheek, I remember him having a cold hand and being told it was Monday afternoon. He was called because no one could get an answer from me although they knew I was in. Next thing I knew I was in an ambulance and then put on a drip in hospital. They found I was dehydrated, 'cos I hadn't eaten or drank anything for nearly three days, and that I had a UTI, which they gave me a course of anti-biotics for. All I wanted to do was go to sleep and be left alone.

Kay, I hope yours clears up and you feel better soon.

[Jim]

It's a dangerous combination Vanessa, Claire will probably put it better but I suspect that there may have been some form of infection which might have been at the start of the trouble. Of course not drinking would have made it worse and that could have driven the spiral downwards..
I don't belittle depression, but I do worry that in some cases the depression might have more causes that mental illness. You are unlikely to cure a UTI with talking therapy.

Also I'd suggest that living on your own can be a 'cause' for depression, whereas living with some people can merely be the cause of justified homicide :-)

[Vanessa (aka Dumbo)]

I've had depression for a few years now and am on medication for it still. I had a course of CBT in the past, but I don't think I benefited a great deal from it. It must work better for some people more than others. Now, I'm ok for the most part but sometimes the slightest thing can set it off. Also my immune system was reduced when I had chemotherapy, which doesn't help.

[Elle]

CBT was good for me when I was younger but the course I had a few years back as someone who was older and more logic-based didn't work at all. I think it really does depend on your state of mind going into it.

[Jim]

Vanessa (aka Dumbo) wrote: "I've had depression for a few years now and am on medication for it still. I had a course of CBT in the past, but I don't think I benefited a great deal from it. It must work better for some people..."

Looking at it from outside, at the time you did have a lot to be depressed about.
I don't want to appear flippant about depression, because I do have family members who suffer, so I'm not minimising it.

[Vanessa (aka Dumbo)]

I don't know if you ever get rid of depression, fully, once you've had it. Even now I can get so emotional and be in floods of tears for no apparent reason. Other times just small upsets trigger it. It just seems to wait dormant in the background waiting to rear it's ugly head.

[Elle]

Vanessa (aka Dumbo) wrote: "I don't know if you ever get rid of depression, fully, once you've had it. Even now I can get so emotional and be in floods of tears for no apparent reason. Other times just small upsets trigger it..."

The first thing my doctor told me when I got diagnosed was that I would be dealing with it for the rest of my life.

[Anita]

I believe you can suffer with it for your whole life. It's not a nice thing to go through. Vanessa you had so much going on its no wonder, look how well you have pulled round though, you have done amazingly well. Keep it up.
I'm lucky enough not have suffered but have lots of friends who do. Kay, my closest and dearest suffers, again when she was diagnosed with the leukaemia she was very very low and it's so hard to stand by and not to be able to do anything to help. I admire anyone who lives their life suffering such an awful illness.

[Anita]

Kay (Golden Girl) wrote: "Talking about UTI'S I have one at moment (for last 2 weeks)I just hope I am still lucid and not away with the fairies. And I am elderly.

my family sometimes think I have dementia but honest I hav..."

Snap Kay ! I have a UTI at the moment, they found out after I gave a sample last Monday, they gave me 3 days of trimethoprim, I've just taken my last tablet so we will see what happens next.

If you are away with the fairies then we are all standing at the side of you ! As Patti said its good to be fairy like once in a while, although I'm not sure your flat cap and wellies quite fit the dress code Jim ( hehehe)

[Gingerlily - The Full Wild]

Flat cap, wellies and a frilly tutu! Lovely :)

[Patti (baconater)]

Gingerlily - Mistress Lantern wrote: "Flat cap, wellies and a frilly tutu! Lovely :)"

And a bra and pants, we'd hope. ;)

[Gingerlily - The Full Wild]

Pants, at the very least!

[Jim]

Anita wrote: "If you are away with the fairies then we are all standing at the side of you ! As Patti said its good to be fairy like once in a while, although I'm not sure your flat cap and wellies quite fit the dress code Jim ( hehehe) ..."

They have a dress code now!

[Gingerlily - The Full Wild]

Not much of one...

[Patti (baconater)]

See? Bra.

[Gingerlily - The Full Wild]

And very little else!

[Patti (baconater)]

Probably not a fence repairing outfit, no.

[Gingerlily - The Full Wild]

Or for sheep wrangling! Not to speak of shoveling sh.....

[Jim]

At least the muck would wash off easily enough

[Vanessa (aka Dumbo)]

This isn't you Jim is it? ;0)

http://upload1.scrapbookflair.com/scr...

[Gingerlily - The Full Wild]

ROFL!!!!!!

[Geoff (G. Robbins) (merda constat variat altitudo)]

It's remarkable how common the "black dog" is. Endless songs have been written about it, and for good reason.

I consider myself extraordinarily lucky not to be affected by it directly. Seeing the effects on others, I cannot help but feel greatly sympathetic towards any sufferer.

[Jim]

Vanessa (aka Dumbo) wrote: "This isn't you Jim is it? ;0)

http://upload1.scrapbookflair.com/scr..."

I don't have a moustache

[Geoff (G. Robbins) (merda constat variat altitudo)]

Jim wrote: "Vanessa (aka Dumbo) wrote: "This isn't you Jim is it? ;0)

http://upload1.scrapbookflair.com/scr..."

I don't have a moustache"

It must be me then.

[Gingerlily - The Full Wild]

From my counselling training I learned that one possible cause of depression is supressed anger. If someone is very angry about something, but can't for whatever reason express or deal with it, it can turn inward and surface as depression. I have suffered from that at certain times, and I am still trying to sort it out. Its almost like those black dogs start off as trying to attack others for what they have done, but you don't let them so they turn round and attack you instead...


(I don't by any means think thats the only cause of depression, just the one I am most familiar with.)

[✿Claire✿]

I've just seen this on Facebook and it made me think of the conversation that was going on here a couple of days ago. I've put it under spoilers as it's quite long and a bit emotional but I thought it was lovely.

(view spoiler)[Yesterday was a weird day. I couldn't get myself out of bed. The guy I live with lifted me up. I tried to get my legs under me, but they wouldn't cooperate. He said, "Don't worry, I gotcha buddy," carried me downstairs, and out the front door. That was so nice of him. I needed to pee so badly, I just had to go right there where he put me down. Normally I wouldn't, but we both decided to make an exception to the rule.

I started walking down the parking lot toward that place where all the dogs like me go to poop. I felt my paws dragging on the ground. "How strange," I thought. Then suddenly, I just had to go, really badly. In the middle of the parking lot. Normally, I wouldn't do that. It's against the rules.

My person cleaned up the mess. He's good at that. I felt embarrassed, looked at him, and he said, "Want to keep walking, buddy?" I did, but it was surprisingly tough. By the time we reached the end of the parking lot, my head was spinning. I tried to climb the little hill, and nearly fell over. I couldn't figure out what was going on.

He reached down again, and ran his hands over me. That felt good. He picked me up, and carried me home. I was still confused, and my head was light, but I was glad not to have to walk all the way back. It suddenly seemed like an impossible distance.

I was so glad to lay down on my bed. My person petted me, saying, "I gotcha covered, buddy. I gotcha." I love the way that makes me feel. I know he does. He makes everything better.

He felt my paws, and pulled up my lip. He said, "Oh buddy, are you cold?" I was. My face was cold, my paws were cold. He texted a few people, and came back to pet me.
A few minutes later, another person arrived. He's one of my favorites, and his name is Jay. He petted me, and said to my person, "Do you want to get a blanket?" They put a blanket over me, and wow... that felt good. I relaxed, and they both petted me, but they both started to choke back tears.

I never want them to cry, it breaks my heart. It's my job to make them feel better, and I was just a little tired, and cold. I drifted in and out of sleep, and they were always there, making sure I was okay, and chatting with each other.

Throughout the day, my person made some phone calls, and spent a lot of time with me. I heard him say, "9 am tomorrow... ok... yes... I'll tell you if anything changes. Thank you Dr. MacDonald." He called someone else, and said, "I'm sorry, I have to cancel tonight." Then as I was drifting off to sleep, I think I heard him cry a little again.

In the evening, more of my favorite people came by. They were all so loving. I licked their tears away when they would get close enough to my face. They whispered sweet things in my ear, and told me I was a good boy.

Later in the evening, I felt well enough to stand up and walk to the door to see who was coming in. It was more exhausting than I'd remembered it being, but I loved seeing them all. I heard my person say something like, "That's the first time he's gotten up under his own power today." Everyone seemed glad that I was out of bed. I was too, but wow... after the excitement wore off, it was so exhausting to move around.

After the last visitor left, my person took me outside to do what he called, "my business." We went back inside and when we reached the bottom of the stairs, they looked twice as steep and ten times as long as I remembered them being. I looked at my person, and he looked at me. He said, "Don't worry, I gotcha buddy," and carried me up.

Then it got even better! Instead of sleeping in my bed, he called me up to sleep on *his* bed. Let me repeat: *I got to sleep in the bed with my person!* We normally have our own beds, but last night we snuggled, and it felt so good to be that close to him. I thought, "This is where I belong. I will never leave his side." I didn't feel very well though, and it was hard to breathe sometimes.

It seems like it started a few months ago. We were playing fetch and I just blacked out. I don't know what happened, but I think I stopped breathing. I could hear my person calling my name. I couldn't move a muscle. He lifted my head, and looked into my eyes. I could see him right there, but couldn't lick his face. He said, "Benny, are you in there?" I couldn't respond. He looked at me, and said, "Don't worry buddy, I gotcha. I gotcha covered." I started to spin into darkness, but then my lungs took in a deep breath, and I could see again.

We went to see some doctors, and since then I've heard a lot of words like, "cardiomyopathy," "cancer," and, "kidney failure." All i know is that sometimes I feel okay, and sometimes... you know... I just don't. My person gives me pills.

This morning, I heard my person get up and take a shower. He came back in the room, and smelled so nice. He helped me get up, but this time, I could do it on my own. We got to the top of the stairs, and wow... they looked long and steep again. He said, "I gotcha buddy," and carried me down. I did my business, and we came back inside. He opened a can, a really, really delicious can of wet dog food. Oh man... I love that stuff!

Jay showed up again. What a nice surprise! He and my person seemed concerned, but everyone was petting me. It seemed a little like a play, where all the actors were sad, but pretending to be happy. Pretty soon after that, another person showed up. She was wearing doctor pants, and I leaned on her.

I heard them talk. Everyone looked at my gums, and felt my paws. I heard the doctor pants lady say, "It's your decision, but he's definitely in that window. I don't want to push you, but looking at his lack of color, I am honestly shocked he's even standing up. In addition to the paws and jowls, look here..." she pointed at my face, "This should be pink. It's almost white, and verging toward yellow."

My person and Jay went inside to talk about something. When they came back out, I heard my person say, "I agree. I don't want to wait till he's in absolute agony." So we went inside. Truth be told, I was feeling pretty badly, even though I was up and walking. It seemed like my whole head was cold, my paws were freezing, and my back legs weren't working right.

The doctor pants lady said, "I'll just put this into his muscle. It's a sedative. Then I'll come back over here, and you can just love on him till he's asleep." My person kissed my face, and looked in my eyes. He was trying not to cry. Doctor pants lady gave me a shot of something in the leg. I just looked at my person. He is so awesome. I will always be right by his side.

He and Jay petted me, and said the nicest things - what a good dog I am, what a good job I've done, how thankful they are to have me in their lives. After a while, my mind started buzzing. FOCUS! I looked back at my person. I love him so much.

I drifted again. FOCUS! I can see my person. I love him so much. I will always be right by his side. He knows that. Am I sleepy? FOCUS! I'll always look at him with my whole heart...

Doctor pants lady said, "He must have an incredible will to stay with you. He is really powering through. That's impressive." My person choked back tears and said, "I know. This guy lives for me. He is the most devoted soul I've ever met..." We put our heads together, and closed our eyes. I felt good. I can't really describe it. We looked at each other again. I just felt like riding that buzz, but maybe lying down was better. My person helped me down. Man, that felt gooooooood.

I felt him and Jay petting me, and heard them talking to me. They love me so much. How lucky am I? Then I felt thousands of hands petting me. Everyone I'd ever known and loved was there, petting me, scratching my ears, and that spot under my collar that makes my leg move. Everyone should try this. It's just amazing!

Then I felt the doctor pants lady touch my leg. Did I tell you that my person had to have both of my knees repaired? They're titanium, and have served me well, but you know... I've been feeling a little creaky lately.

With everyone petting me, the doctor pants lady put another needle in my leg, but this time, as the fluid went in, my legs were healed! My knees were perfect! And as I felt it move through my body, my cancer disappeared! And then my kidneys felt better! And finally, even my heart was whole, and healthy! I felt like I had sprung away from all of my sickness. Amazing!

I saw my person, and Jay, and the lady who lives at our house, Shelly. They seemed to be huddling over something. I walked over to look. It seemed like... I don't know. It kind of looked like me, but the way I looked when I was feeling really sick, or exhausted. The face was blurred out, so I couldn't really tell, but that poor guy looked like he had been suffering.

I could tell my person was both relieved and very, very sad. I love him so much. I looked at that me-shaped shell, and I looked at him... I think he was sad about that shell. I jumped around the room, like a clown, but it seemed like they wanted to be somber, and focus on whatever that thing was they were petting and kissing.

But my person was definitely sad. I leaned on him, like I've done a million times before, but it wasn't quite the same. It felt like his body was a cloud and I passed right through him. So I walked up next to him, sat like a good boy, and my heart whispered to his, "Don't worry, buddy. I gotcha covered."

I will never leave his side. He knows that. (hide spoiler)]

[Geoff (G. Robbins) (merda constat variat altitudo)]

Okay, that's me broken now.

[✿Claire✿]

Sorry Geoff :( didn't mean to break anyone :(

[Desley (Cat fosterer)]

I couldn't finish reading that!

That's really interesting GL, I never knew that

[Elle]

Oh my good grief, I am fully broken and crying. That is utterly heart breaking but beautiful.

[Elle]

Gingerlily - Mistress Lantern wrote: "From my counselling training I learned that one possible cause of depression is supressed anger. If someone is very angry about something, but can't for whatever reason express or deal with it, it ..."

Also unrelated medical reasons that keep your body or brain from doing exactly what you want is a leading 'cause' of depression. 'cause' being a difficult word for depression as most cases it comes from nowhere.

[Kath]

That's a lovely story, Claire. A bit anthropomorphic for my taste but nicely done.

[Desley (Cat fosterer)]

Elle wrote: "Gingerlily - Mistress Lantern wrote: "From my counselling training I learned that one possible cause of depression is supressed anger. If someone is very angry about something, but can't for whatev..."

I remember my doctor telling me that pain is a big factor in depression

[Jud]

That was heart breaking Claire! I couldn't stop reading it but wish I had, I'm greeting at my desk now. *cuddles for everyone*

Gareth suffers from depression and anxiety, I think it comes from his IBD which severely affects his life. It is a kind of IBS in that there seems to be no specific trigger so there isn't really any control over it. Living with someone with depression is horrid (but probably not as horrid as it is to have it). They affect each other (like you are saying, Elle) anxiety makes his tummy worse which makes his depression worse which makes his anxiety worse ad infinitum. It's interesting what you say about suppressed anger GL, Gareth would have a temper on him but he has never lost it with me because I don't rise to it and he can't bring himself to yell at me if I'm not going to yell back! Maybe I should let him rant and rave once a week and it might 'cure' him ;o)

You guys are part of my coping strategy :o)

*more cuddles*